Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Tripp, I know that you watch the games more than once as do I. Even in the games that they get burned on double moves they make outstanding plays in the secondary in other parts of the game. Sometimes when you make big plays it also makes you vulnerable to big plays and I think that is the problem that everyone is having. To say that they have only played well in a couple of games goes beyond stretching the truth.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Cb is a big need as well probably 3rd or 4th on the list for this team

LT, RT,QB,FS,CB,,RB,OG, OLB...In that order only because running backs can be found in the later rounds

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645285]I'd put RB before DB. Portis, Betts, Cartwright, Mason, and Ganther could conceivably all be gone[/quote]


No way this guy would ever be considered a featured back, but remember Anthony Alridge? Shanahan was the one that recomended to Cerrato he take a look at this guy and they spoke highly of him in Denver as though some there didn't want to see him leave.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=Angry;645333]Tripp, I know that you watch the games more than once as do I. Even in the games that they get burned on double moves they make outstanding plays in the secondary in other parts of the game. Sometimes when you make big plays it also makes you vulnerable to big plays and I think that is the problem that everyone is having. To say that they have only played well in a couple of games goes beyond stretching the truth.[/quote]It's impossible to separate how much of the preparation for the game is Gray/Blache, and how much is just Rogers and Hall and Landry not being physical with the receivers. I'm not trying to do that.

I'm saying this group is a very reactive bunch. They never look like they have any idea what they are running. And it has an adverse effect on the outcome of plays. I'm not disagreeing with you that there's no talent here, or that they aren't underachieving to an extent.

But in Blache's defense (and Gray's), scheming for Rogers/Smoot and Hall runs into the same problem that the Raiders did when they were trying to scheme for Asomugha and Hall. Rogers may not be a great player, but he did have a great season in 2008, and a great half season in 2007. When Hall was getting absolutely smoked in Oakland, he was doing so because of man coverage scheme and reactive zones that were playing to the strengths of the Oakland secondary...because it allows Nnamdi to take away a side of the field. Hall was a fish out of water there. And, frankly, we were running the exact same scheme.

We're not running the same scheme at all this year. Everything we've done since the bye week has been cover two, cover three, quarters, quarter-half, stuff that makes Hall comfortable because he doesn't have underneath coverage responsibility. And we've taken our best defensive player in the secondary, and have completely marginalized him. We've taken Landry, and have exposed him to primary zone coverage responsiblities and restricted him. And worse of all, we've taken Smoot, and given him something to think about out there.

The film sees a complete disaster. I think there's more to it that that, but there needs to be some sort of tear down before we can rebuild. If Hall is going to be the centerpiece, then fine, get rid of everyone else. Get rid of Landry, of Rogers, of Moore, of McIntosh, of Fletcher and draft zone coverage players. We need a new scheme, and a new page, but there also has to be a talent shift.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;645341]No way this guy would ever be considered a featured back, but remember Anthony Alridge? Shanahan was the one that recomended to Cerrato he take a look at this guy and they spoke highly of him in Denver as though some there didn't want to see him leave.[/quote]

I'd like to see him given another chance.. if Mason can get one Alridge should.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645344]I'd like to see him given another chance.. if Mason can get one Alridge should.[/quote]

That was my thought as well. I thought maybe since Shanahan is famaliar with him and he was here for a sandwich, maybe there can be a place for him. Even if dosen't get carries maybe he can contribute as a returner without fumbling.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

I think the redskins defense, including the defensive backs, have played pretty good this year -- even though they just got destroyed by the giants.

I think everyone is overreacting just a little because the redskins were embarrassed on Monday night. The problem with the whole entire redskins defense , including the coaches, is that they don't adjust very well when things aren't going well -- so everything just snowballs and they keep making the same mistakes over and over. So they have played pretty good when they gameplan well, but when that plan doesn't work they don't have a plan B and the opposing offense can take advantage of those weaknesses the whole game. I guess you can say the same thing about the redskins offensive gameplanning and adjustments this season; the difference being -- the offense for the beginning of the season didn't really bring a good gameplan coming in.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645314]Yeah, if he goes after LeGarrette Blount, I'll be worried.

You're speaking to the president of the "Shanahan can't draft" club. But even though he misses on a lot of picks, the running backs who PLAY always perform.[/quote]

Mr. President, would you agree that he does better drafting offensive players rather than defensive players? I'm hardly defending his draft record here, just noticing that his record on the defensive side is especially lame. He drafted Al Wilson and...well, that's about it.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645327]I don't think he has. I'm just pointing out that he's a douchebag.

If he's a scheme fit, and he doesn't cost anything, then he can be a douchebag who scores 8 TDs for my team. But those are the kind of guys that you have to be right on, and SmootSmack was pointing out that Shanahan has brought these guys in, and then found out they couldn't play at a later time.[/quote]
Blount would be interesting in rd 4 or 5 . GTripp , what do you think of , E. Williams , Rinehart , M. Williams as backups or being able to be capable starters in 2010 ? Not that I want ALL three to go into camp as our top prospects , just wanted your opinion based on what you have seen on film , thanks . Hail skins ... merry Christmas ... and beat them darn cowboys !!!!!!

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

No other need is nearly as great as the need for offensive linemen. Our OL is an unmitigated disaster area and there is no way we can compete for a playoff spot in 2010 unless it is addressed via Free Agency and the Draft during the offseason. Honestly, there isn't a single OL on our roster who I would miss if he were to be replaced.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;645366]No other need is nearly as great as the need for offensive linemen. Our OL is an unmitigated disaster area and there is no way we can compete for a playoff spot in 2010 unless it is addressed via Free Agency and the Draft during the offseason. Honestly, there isn't a single OL on our roster who I would miss if he were to be replaced.[/quote]

Sadly...I agree.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;645341]No way this guy would ever be considered a featured back, but remember Anthony Alridge? Shanahan was the one that recomended to Cerrato he take a look at this guy and they spoke highly of him in Denver as though some there didn't want to see him leave.[/quote]

still don't know why we got rid of him and dorsey and kept mason, alridge and dorsey were what i consider change of pace backs, because they had some serious speed and dorsey is a sick return guy

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Wr .... Wr .... Wr .... :)

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=budw38;645381]Wr .... Wr .... Wr .... :)[/quote]

Ahhh the "2nd round" plan almost

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;645341]No way this guy would ever be considered a featured back, but remember Anthony Alridge? Shanahan was the one that recomended to Cerrato he take a look at this guy and they spoke highly of him in Denver as though some there didn't want to see him leave.[/quote]

Yup. That's why I purposely left him off my list :)

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

HA HA HA

This is a great thread! Welcome to the site, Vinny!

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

VINNY! The CBs suck pretty bad, but I think that Barnes will end up being good for some reason... just a hunch

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=budw38;645358]Blount would be interesting in rd 4 or 5 . GTripp , what do you think of , E. Williams , Rinehart , M. Williams as backups or being able to be capable starters in 2010 ? Not that I want ALL three to go into camp as our top prospects , just wanted your opinion based on what you have seen on film , thanks . Hail skins ... merry Christmas ... and beat them darn cowboys !!!!!![/quote]I think an interior line of Mike Williams, Rinehart, and Edwin Williams would be better than an interior line of Will Montgomery, Derrick Dockery, and Casey Rabach. I'd actually like to see that starting OL for one year, with fresh blood at the tackle positions.

But it's easily screwed up. A line of Dockery, Edwin Williams, and Mike Williams would get no push in the running game. No athletcism. A line of Dockery, E. Williams, and Rinehart would look a lot like this years line. Bringing Rabach back would delay the inevitable, I think.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Yes corner is IMO, as equal of importance to our team needs as OL. I think the only corner worthy of us getting in the first round of april is Joe Haden. After that there is really no worthy OLineman for the next few rounds. But look at the Colts, they're 14-0 with an Undrafted Rookie Corner Jacob Lacey starting on one side, and a 3rd round Rookie Corner Jerraud Powers starting on the other side. Now our luck of getting a guy that good in the later rounds isn't that good but who knows. The OLineman coming out this year are great throughout the upcoming draft. We could get a starting LT in maybe the 3rd round, thats how good the depth is.

Back to the corner deal though, Smoot is gone next year for sure, and most likely either Rogers or Tryon are gone aswell. So yes there is an obvious need for corner especially after last game with Eli picking at our secondary constantly, especially all 3 guys I mentioned above. I know I've used this example before but look at the Steelers from last year, Amazing defense, ok offense. The corners on that defense could play what ever coverage you would ask of them, allowing the defense to glue together and play at a consistent level. The offensive line was awful, but did just enough to allow the offense to get a play when it needed it. Defense wins championships. That would be my arguement to get a corner with our first rounder.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Simple answer, NO!!

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

At this point the defense is ranked 4th and the offense is ranked close to last. Which is more important?

I think everyone now see's the issue with not having a decent OL or atleast they should. This year should be set up to fix the offense. Next year should be set up to continue with the Offense and tweeking the defense. 3rd year should be all about tweeking whatever needs tweeking. 4th year BPA.....SB somewhere in there.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

This is actually a good question.. I used to advocate extending Rogers but now I'm not so sure anymore due to stuff going on between Rogers and the FO.. But I still believe the good move would to try resign him; Rogers is better with man to man.. However, Hall plays opposite better.. I forgot who but someone brought up an idea of moving Hall to free safety, which will allows us to move Landry to SS.. SmootSmack believes Barnes would be starting CB next season - this gives us the opportunity to play aggressive defense because we then would have Barnes and Rogers playing man to man..

I remember I read on, perhaps Redskins Insider, Barnes's coach at UMD said that Barnes was only one who could cover Heyward-Bey.. Who has, in general, similar speed as DeSean Jackson..

Would be nice if all this happens; we would have Hall roaming free to be ballhawk.. Landry going inside to disrupt rushing and passing plays, along with Haynesworth, Carter, Orakpo.. I really like the idea of moving Orakpo to DE full time and have Horton take over the position; Horton plays close line scrimmage pretty well - might as well move him to LB..

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Without a doubt our OL is our first priority. I can't see how can plan on being successful without addressing that position. CB is also a need but I think we are better at posiion than we are at OL.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

At this point, I don't know that there is any choice but to scalp that really high first rounder for as many second and third round picks as possible.

Given some team's desperation for a qb, we can trade into next year's first round even.

But going back to the thread topic, that is a great point, CB is a legit need especially given that Landry is a coverage liability and Doughty/Horton are average at best. But line remains the bigger concern, and QB is fine in my opinion (see avatar lol)

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=GridIron26;645692]This is actually a good question.. I used to advocate extending Rogers but now I'm not so sure anymore due to stuff going on between Rogers and the FO.. But I still believe the good move would to try resign him; Rogers is better with man to man.. However, Hall plays opposite better.. I forgot who but someone brought up an idea of moving Hall to free safety, which will allows us to move Landry to SS.. SmootSmack believes Barnes would be starting CB next season - this gives us the opportunity to play aggressive defense because we then would have Barnes and Rogers playing man to man..

I remember I read on, perhaps Redskins Insider, Barnes's coach at UMD said that Barnes was only one who could cover Heyward-Bey.. Who has, in general, similar speed as DeSean Jackson..

Would be nice if all this happens; we would have Hall roaming free to be ballhawk.. Landry going inside to disrupt rushing and passing plays, along with Haynesworth, Carter, Orakpo.. I really like the idea of moving Orakpo to DE full time and have Horton take over the position; Horton plays close line scrimmage pretty well - might as well move him to LB..[/quote]


I agree with this sentement. Rogers does not better when he's playing man-to-man. When he's giving the 20yrd cushion he sucks. We have two games left to put Barns out there in man-to-man with Rogers playing man to man and see how it works out with Hall playing FS. So what if they do bad. It gives us a chance to see what we have and if it's possible. If we get beat on a couple of plays in this formations put the regulars in at their regular spots. I'd probably play all the young guys. Tryon, and Westbrook need playing time also.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

We have the Number five pass defense in the NFL. We are 28th most sacked team in the league. I say Oline.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

Wish we just kept Champ Bailey. Portis is good, but that trade sucked. Betts would've been fine and we'd have shut down the other top WR every game --- instead of watching DeSean Jackson/McNabb & Eli Manning tear us apart

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

The 2009 Washington Redskins are not a good football team. They have myriad areas that need improvement.

You are correct that the defensive backfield needs improvement (corners and safeties) but NOTHING need an upgrde more than the OL where there are a half dozen "guys" on the roster who would have difficulty making any other team in the league. It may take more than one season to remedy that situation, but it MUST change.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=ethat001;645752][B]Wish we just kept Champ Bailey[/B]. Portis is good, but that trade sucked. Betts would've been fine and we'd have shut down the other top WR every game --- instead of watching DeSean Jackson/McNabb & Eli Manning tear us apart[/quote]

he was gonna leave no matter what he wanted to go

what we really need is coaching for our db's there is some talent there just needs coaching, our oline is trash heyer should never take another snap in the nfl we need new guys on oline we can work with our db's for now

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

7 or more picks coming our way in 2010 so I am sure if Allen is really evaluating the team these last few games he will see we need a decent CB or two this coming offseason, but the O line is the priority, along with a QB for depth and/or a future starter. I think JC will stay the starting QB, but he might bolt on his own initiative after the way Snyder treated him. Thing is I am not sure that a lot of teams will take him in, other than maybe Oakland, TB, or KC. I don't think he is the leader folks make hiim out to be just because he didn't quit against the Gmen, but I think he is on his way in becoming the leader of this team. It takes more to be a leader than refusing to quit, although that is a big part of being a true leader.

Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;645887]7 or more picks coming our way in 2010 so I am sure if Allen is really evaluating the team these last few games he will see we need a decent CB or two this coming offseason, but the O line is the priority, along with a QB for depth and/or a future starter. I think JC will stay the starting QB, but he might bolt on his own initiative after the way Snyder treated him. Thing is I am not sure that a lot of teams will take him in, other than maybe Oakland, TB, or KC. I don't think he is the leader folks make hiim out to be just because he didn't quit against the Gmen, but I think he is on his way in becoming the leader of this team. It takes more to be a leader than refusing to quit, although that is a big part of being a true leader.[/quote]
I think right now we have a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th.