Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651817]Do you see him having any say in personnel decisions anymore?[/quote]

I'm sure he'll give his opinions. But he will, as he has much much more often than not the past several years, defer the final decision.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

My fear w/the new regime is that it is too similar in personel philosophy to the old one. I'm speaking about Shanny more so than Allen. In denver, they spent a lot of $ & brought in older players just like Synderatto has here.

I hope that there isn't a 'group think' environment where all the decision makers agree. That could lead to some more of the past. I'm encouraged that Shanny said he wants to be challenged by his scouts. And he & Allen's time away from the game has hopefully given them time to reflect and refresh; making them wiser & more methodical. This team needs a methodical, calculated, disciplined & rational approach to the future.

Even under Gibbs there was a belief that they were just a couple players away from a SB. That approach was often true in Gibbs heyday w/no cap or free agency when rosters were very stable year to year. In the cap era that approach doesn't work for a no. of reasons.

Bottom line; I need to be convinced that this team will build through the draft & not squander picks, I don't care who is running the team. Vinny gave this lip service, yet this year we are w/out a 6th round pick & last year were w/out a 2nd round pick, all for a guy that's back w/the team he left us for.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;651812]As for Snyder's involvement, I think some people have a really naive expectation of how involved he should be. The guy is the owner of the team. He's not some dude from Kentucky posting on a message board about the Redskins. I think people expect him to be as involved with the team as any of us.[/quote]

Snyder shouldn't have any involvment in determining the makeup of our roster. He also shouldn't have close personal relationships with any of the players. The point at which either of those statements is no longer true is the point that this team will start spiraling downhill (again).

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651816]I can't listen to the audio but this is from the transcript

[B][/B]

No mention of any sort of mediating, and he only mentions Allen. Reid may have asked about it, but MS doesn't specifically address that aspect.[/quote]

The part you bolded did not completely reflect that question that was asked. redskins.com made sure of that.The question clearly mentioned cooke as a mediator. i'll see if i can find a complete transcript with the reporters questions.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651837]Snyder shouldn't have any involvment in determining the makeup of our roster. He also shouldn't have close personal relationships with any of the players. The point at which either of those statements is no longer true is the point that this team will start spiraling downhill (again).[/quote]

We'll agree to disagree

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;651839]We'll agree to disagree[/quote]

Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Paintrain;651792]Lol, I was thinking the same thing. I just read her article and was thinking how miserable it must be to be her and look at everything through crap covered glasses.

This is where I see this hire as different from any other one in the past:

-Schottenheimer had stated 3 weeks prior to his hiring that he could never work for someone like Snyder. He was at the point where his legacy as a coach was still very much in question and it seemed (and was noted by Peter King at the time) almost like a money grab. Snyder made him the highest paid coach in the league and he came in trying to make it all about Marty. I remember George Michael a few months back saying that on the 1st day of camp he knew it wasn't going to work. Marty rubbed everyone the wrong way and there was no buffer (more on that in a minute) so the ego clash was immediate and brutal. He took the dictatorial role too seriously (alarms on the doors at camp?) and lost the team. Sure he got them back but it was too late in Dan's eyes.

-Spurrier and Shanahan have no comparison. Little did we know how vastly underprepared Spurrier was to being an NFL coach.

-Gibbs, for as much as we love him around these parts, was also vastly unprepared to be an NFL coach in the 2000's when he was hired. He was away from the game for too long, didn't surround himself with contemporary coaches and it took him a while to get his sea legs. Let's not forget the influence of Vincenzo Ceratto either.

-Zorn, see Spurrier.

With Shanahan, we're getting one of the most respected and accomplished coaches active in the league today, active being a key word!! Although he was out of the league he was never away from the league. He's probably more prepared now than he was while he was coaching because he could focus on 32 teams each week rather than 2. In addition he brings with him one of the hot young coordinators (as opposed to Jack Burns) to run the offense. He's got the buffer in Bruce Allen that Marty lacked. He's not coaching to establish a legacy, he's trying to extend a legacy so rather than overcompensating for past failures (like Marty), he's going to be able to build on what's worked in the past. He also brings the immediate respect of players (unlike Spurrier and Zorn) who have to prove everything to him instead of vice versa.

I think it's going to be a process to turn us into winners but I am assured that it will happen. I don't expect a 10 or 11 win season next year but wouldn't be shocked by it either. For the first time in nearly 20 years we can unequivocally say we've got the best coach in the division, now it's time to get the tools for him to go to work![/quote]


This is a great post and basically what I was thinking as well. shanny has the best oportunity to succeded out of the past coaches.


Here is one thought I have kicked around though.

Would you take Shanahan or Josh McDaniels as your coach? Denver choose JM.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651838]The part you bolded did not completely reflect that question that was asked. redskins.com made sure of that.The question clearly mentioned cooke as a mediator. i'll see if i can find a complete transcript with the reporters questions.[/quote]

I don't doubt it was asked, I was just saying Shanahan didn't mention Snyder being involved. I don't think that part was left off intentionally, the questions were clearly paraphrased.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651843]I don't doubt it was asked, I was just saying Shanahan didn't mention Snyder being involved. I don't think that part was left off intentionally, the questions were clearly paraphrased.[/quote]

I'm listening to the presser again and will repost verbatim.

Q: "the organization structure you talked about between you and bruce sounded a little bit like what joe gibbs had with bobby bethard and jack kent cooke offering a thought here and there, are there similiarities in that bobby and joe had some good arm wrestling matches with jack arbitrating?

A: "I would say thats a good comparison right there..." Then Shanahan goes on to ramble on about talking with Joe Bugel back in the 1980s. He completely side-stepped the most important part of the question. He eventually got back to part of the original question, saying that Bruce is the best guy at what he does and that he wants to get the best players, coaches etc. possible.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651840]Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.[/quote]

What if he simply asks MS or Allen about getting Ocho. I don't think he has "made someone" go out and get a player, but I could be wrong. I don't see why he can't discuss things, as long as Allen/MS are not intimidated into "ds wants we go get thinking" which is what VC too often was accused of, and closer to the problem. I think DS can come and discuss anything, and BA/MS will simply listen respectfully and make the decision they think is best. It wouldn't shock me if once in a while, DS even made valuable suggestions that they decide to use.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I like to call it cautious optimism. I am holding out full-fledged homerism until I see the coaching staff put in place and some roster moves made. I don't have any specific moves in mind but if we can get some draft picks for one or a few underachieving vetrans (Landry, Portis, Rogers, (maybe Campbell but I wouldn't hate it if he was back)) and the ones we don't part with get a fire lit under them.

Not looking for 9-7 or even 8-8 at this point, anything better than 0-6 in division and being [B]consistently[/B] competative.

Our secondary needs some serious coaching up, sorry Jerry please go somewhere else, they can't cover anything but their faces in shame and tackle like an epileptic penguin(looking at you Landry). Unless somone is half a step out of bounds running away Landry can't land a solid hit since being mowed over by BJ.

We all know the OL problems, I am not worried that they and the rest of the "offensive" issue will be adressed now.

I digressed a little there and combined about three posts into one, I am happy with new direction and hope my renewd faith isn't crushed once again.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

It won't be long before we will begin to get answers to all our questions and concerns. After all is said and done, all the speculating ends, the bottom line will surface in the won loss record. All the moves will be the right ones if the team becomes a winning one, if not we're back to square one.The only thing that's going to keep the question and uncertainty away is winning football games BL. Pray for winning!!...Just pray that we win!!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651840]Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.[/quote]

On an nfl.com interview.(Cant link for another 15 posts) Shanny says toward the end I think, he has final say but will take the advice of others. He also states he had that power in Denver but never used it. It may be word games but at least Snyder as acknowledged his involvement has been a problem and at least is trying to create the perception he is backing off.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;651851]It won't be long before we will begin to get answers to all our questions and concerns. After all is said and done, all the speculating ends, the bottom line will surface in the won loss record. All the moves will be the right ones if the team becomes a winning one, if not we're back to square one.The only thing that's going to keep the question and uncertainty away is winning football games BL. Pray for winning!!...Just pray that we win!![/quote]

Agreed. Trying to dissect things right now is a little pointless (but of course what else are we here for?). The proof will be in the pudding.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651837]Snyder shouldn't have any involvment in determining the makeup of our roster. [B]He also shouldn't have close personal relationships with any of the players. [/B] The point at which either of those statements is no longer true is the point that this team will start spiraling downhill (again).[/quote]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with an owner who has personal relationships with players. Look at Bob Kraft/Tom Brady. In fact, it would be close to impossible for an owner not to have said relationships.

The point is that the owner should not engage in those relationships in a way that undercuts the authority of the FO. That has been the problem. Hopefully those days are gone with the Redskins. Hopefully.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651854]The proof will be in the pudding.[/quote]

There's pudding too!!! Awesome.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651854]Agreed. Trying to dissect things right now is a little pointless (but of course what else are we here for?). The proof will be in the pudding.[/quote]

As always, you're the good voice of reasoning.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Paintrain;651806]Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant][/quote]

Your history is right, Im not saying we were not having problems with coaching, players, etc...Im was refering to running of the organization. Yes Danny Boy is a great business man, 2nd highest revenue team...great for him. But his style, like you said has failed and no he shouldnt have any in personel decision he sucks at doing it. It doest work. In the last decade we have easily been the worst team in our division...thats not media saying it, its what Ive been watching for the last 10 years. Ill refer to your sig as well, Marty stating obviously it starts at the top. Thats not the media but a coach. This last year he and Vinny were pretty classless.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I think the difference between the Gibbs hiring and Shanahan hiring are:

Gibbs came in at a point where the franchise didn't have a QB in place, the roster was a mess (lots of holes), etc. His level of energy wasn't there like it was like Gibbs I (he just wasn't the hard ass he used to be).

Shanahan is coming in here hungry after getting fired and has been preparing himself for almost a year for this moment to happen and prove everyone wrong. The roster is in a lot better shape with the exception of the OL and RB, I think QB play can improve with a better line.

What I see:

Danny realizes he needs to step back and let BA and MS do their thing, my main concern with Shanahan is that I want to see him hire a DC like either Gray or Zimmer and not Slowick as DC.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Player_HTTR;651858]There's pudding too!!! Awesome.[/quote]

Oh yeah... pie and pudding. It's what we're good for here.

I like old school butterscotch pudding, hell even some good ol' rice is good too.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651747]Let's just call it the debbie downer thread, lol, j/k

Seriously though, I'm in wait and see mode like a lot of folks. At face value though, this feels different to me than past moves. This is the first time we've seen Snyder step aside and completely hand off the football ops. There's no way either Allen or Shanahan would have agreed to come here unless they were 110% sure that Snyder will be playing the role of owner, and owner only. Snyder had established relationships with both guys coming in so I think there's a trust factor there and that's important to him.

I'm excited, [B]Allen and Shanahan bring an element of credibility to the front[/B] [B]office that we've been sorely lacking[/B]. I think we're finally seeing a move in a new direction for the organization. A move that will emphasis some proven and more traditional methods of putting together a winner, not this willy-nilly approach of going for the big names, trading away picks on a whim, and ignoring glaring needs until everything bottoms out.[/quote]

Thats my thought completely. And you would have to be completely detached from reality if you weren't in some degree of wait and see mode, but as others have mentioned something just feels different this time and I suspect it has to do with a couple of things like Snyder getting his ass kicked in every way possible, and the whole out with the old in with the new approach as well as the sense of credibility factor. Snyder is by no means a stupid man, hes made stupid mistakes but hes not stupid and hes a brilliant business man. So if you factor in his passion for the Skins and his disgust for losing money I think he realized what he had to do.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651840]Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.[/quote]

We must have different opinions of the definition of "involved"

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Think all of this came about from some stupid truck with an $1,800 sign on the back of it.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;651866]Think all of this came about from some stupid truck with an $1,800 sign on the back of it.[/quote]
Funny!!:laughing2

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;651758]My personality is too similar to Spock's. I can't get too high and can't get too low. Dare I say I'm naturally... medium? I totally agree with you Scud. There are areas where Shanahan can make an immediate impact, but others will take much longer.

Immediate Impact:
- Discipline. Players will toe the line or lose their jobs.

- Respect in the locker room. He brings immediate leadership credibility, so those in the locker room who didn't respect Zorn will respect Shanahan.

- Turnovers on defense. The switch away from Blache's scheme to a defensive coordinator who favors a more attacking style should help the turnover situation. This is not a certainty, we don't know who the new DC is yet, so we don't know the scheme. But if it happens, it will happen this year.

Long Term Impact:
- Offensive line personnel. Our line is so shitty that it will take multiple player acquisitions before it's built the way he wants.

- QB development. It will take Campbell or a new rookie more than one year to get up to speed.

- Running game scheme. Offensive linemen will be shuffling in and out of here over the next two years. Installing the new scheme for the running game will take time as the new line gels.

In the NFL, you can put together a decent season just by playing disciplined and winning the turnover battle. So it's possible Shanahan turns in a 9-7 season in 2010. I'm definitely not hoping for any better than that until 2011 and beyond.[/quote]



Schneed10:

Good points here...

If indeed Shanahan can deliver on the threat that players who don't toe the line lose their jobs -- even "special players" - - that will be a HUGE improvement for 2010.

If there are any players on the Skins' roster in 2009 who have to be convinced that Mike Shanahan has earned respect as a coach, those players are dumber than dirt. Respect for the head coach - - and by extension the other people on the staff - - will be a positive improvement in 2010.

I'll wait and see how much of a defensive change is coming until I see who the new defensive coaching staff is.


Agree it will take more than one year to rebuild the OL - - unless there is a Fairy Godmother out there who loves the Redskins.

Agree there will some turmoil at QB next year but I hope the coaching staff will have made a firm decision on who is going to be the team's QB going beyond 2010 by the end of 2010. At some point, the Skins need to have a stable situation at QB.


Improving from 4-12 is not exactly one of Hercules' Twelve Labors. I expect that record to be better in 2010 but I don't see any "worst-to-first" situations here.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651844]I'm listening to the presser again and will repost verbatim.[/quote]

It was Boswell who asked it and he said "The organizational structure you talked about here with you and Bruce sounded a little bit like what Joe Gibbs and Bobby Beathard had with Jack Kent Cooke offering a thought here and there. Are there similarities in that? Bobby and Joe had some good arm-wrestling matches with Jack arbitrating. Any similarities?"

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Let's take at face value that he's realized he needs to back away and not be so involved with the team and players. I can definitely buy that. The question is whether he's made a real decision to change or whether this is his way of trying to appease fans. If he's really trying to change then will he be able to maintain the new approach and see it through to fruition or not? If it's just an appeasement then nothing will really change all that much in the long run and we're screwed.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Player_HTTR;651853]On an nfl.com interview.(Cant link for another 15 posts) Shanny says toward the end I think, he has final say but will take the advice of others. He also states he had that power in Denver but never used it. It may be word games but at least Snyder as acknowledged his involvement has been a problem and [B]at least is trying to create the perception[/B] he is backing off.[/quote]

That is the crucial point. Is it just the perception that he's trying to change, or is he really making changes? Time will tell.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651875]That is the crucial point. Is it just the perception that he's trying to change, or is he really making changes? Time will tell.[/quote]

At least he knows, and knowing is [B]half[/B] the battle.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;651872]It was Boswell who asked it and he said "The organizational structure you talked about here with you and Bruce sounded a little bit like what Joe Gibbs and Bobby Beathard had with Jack Kent Cooke offering a thought here and there. Are there similarities in that? Bobby and Joe had some good arm-wrestling matches with Jack arbitrating. Any similarities?"[/quote]

thanks for that. i had just edited my original post with the comments verbatim. had to listen to about 20 minutes of the interview over to get it! As I said in my edited post, Shanahan did a very good job of not answering the question that was asked, instead sharing a story about a conversation he had with Joe Bugel in the 80's and then talking about wanting to surround him self with the best players, coaches etc. For those of us who are skeptical, the lack of forthright and direct responses is concerning. I'd like to know exactly what Snyder's involvement is. There are things he should be involved in, as the team's owner. And there are things that Snyder should not be involved in if the organization is to become "functional" again.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;651873]Let's take at face value that he's realized he needs to back away and not be so involved with the team and players. I can definitely buy that. The question is whether he's made a real decision to change or whether this is his way of trying to appease fans. If he's really trying to change then will he be able to maintain the new approach and see it through to fruition or not? If it's just an appeasement then nothing will really change all that much in the long run and we're screwed.[/quote]

I just keep coming back to the thought that Allen and Shanahan wouldn't be here if they weren't given the keys and told to run with it. Shanahan most of all. Reading up on him the last couple of days the guy is definitely a control freak, but he's also extremely bright. Mark Schlereth seems to think Shanahan has learned his lesson from Denver in regard to personnel and will lean more on Allen to help him out in that area.

[quote]"Absolutely, I think it's going to work. He's a great football coach. Mike Shanahan's a very intelligent guy. He will grind, he's a great football coach, but he's very smart and he understands why he's no longer the head coach of the Denver Broncos. It's because of the personnel decisions. He made personnel decisions both in the draft and also as far as free agency is concerned that didn't work out. So he understands that aspect of it. Mike Shanahan, there's no question in my mind -- a Hall of Fame caliber coach, just not a Hall of Fame personnel guy. So I think he will defer in a lot of those scenarios to his general manager. They will work as a team. But make no bones about it, he can flat coach a football team. He knows this game inside and out."

link: [url=http://blog.redskins.com/2010/01/06/mark-schlereth-on-the-shanahan-hire/]Mark Schlereth On The Shanahan Hire[/url]

Funny stuff about Schlereth here too
[/quote]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651879][B]I just keep coming back to the thought that Allen and Shanahan wouldn't be here if they weren't given the keys and told to run with it. Shanahan most of all.[/B] Reading up on him the last couple of days the guy is definitely a control freak, but he's also extremely bright. Mark Schlereth seems to think Shanahan has learned his lesson from Denver in regard to personnel and will lean more on Allen to help him out in that area.[/quote]

Me too. Although I am skeptical of Snyder, Shanny simply would not be here unless something significant had changed.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Paintrain;651806]Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant][/quote]



Paintrain:

Indeed the Redskins of the mid-90s were not very good. The John Kent Cooke years left a lot to be desired when compared to the Jack Kent Cooke years.

However, when Danny Boy bought the team in the midst of the 99 season, he bought a team that made the playoffs. The team was not great and was not destined to become a dynasty, but it was solid and won more games than it lost.

The next year, the Skins were over .500 when Danny Boy fired Norv Turner in the middle of the year and the issue that caused the flare-up was that Norv refused to put Jeff George in as the starting QB. Amazingly, when Terry Robiske took over as interim coach, he surveyed the scene and decided that Jeff George was just the guy to lead the Skins; how insightful of him.

Oh, that was the year that the recently acquired Deion Sanders talked about not knowing "Coach Rabinsky" very well. Lots of respect in that locker room for and from the new acquisitions to the team courtesy of the Boy Wonder.

Danny Boy is not nearly the worst owner in sports. But what he did in his first ten years of ownership here was to take a solid-but-hardly-great squad, tear it apart to add "marquee players" and put the fans in DC thru a decade of less than mediocre football.

The fact that the Redskins are the second highest grossing franchise in sports - - not sure if that is still true - - means exactly NOTHING regarding the product on the field.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Gibbs also gave Shanahan the ok saying that Snyder would step back. So Snyder has obviously taken a backseat before.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651879]I just keep coming back to the thought that Allen and Shanahan wouldn't be here if they weren't given the keys and told to run with it. Shanahan most of all. Reading up on him the last couple of days the guy is definitely a control freak, but he's also extremely bright. Mark Schlereth seems to think Shanahan has learned his lesson from Denver in regard to personnel and will lean more on Allen to help him out in that area.[/quote]

I think that's the thing some people are wondering about that, word "defer". There are those who do not seem to think Allen"s track record in the area where Shanahan may need help is any better than his. (hence the suggestion of still another piece being needed).

Here's hoping that Shanahan can pull off something that at least six other coaches have tried and failed at when it comes to winning super bowls with one team and being able to dupllicate it with another. Vince Lombardi, Dick Vermiel, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren and Joe Gibbs twice in the same city.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;651892]I think that's the thing some people are wondering about that, word "defer". There are those who do not seem to think Allen"s track record in the area where Shanahan may need help is any better than his. (hence the suggestion of still another piece being needed).

Here's hoping that Shanahan can pull off something that at least six other coaches have tried and failed at when it comes to winning super bowls with one team and being able to dupllicate it with another. Vince Lombardi, Dick Vermiel, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren and Joe Gibbs twice in the same city.[/quote]

Nice post. 100% agree.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

If we do not up-grade our personnel department, when it comes to the draft and free agency we'll have to rely heavily on our scouting department. I'm not so sure that's a good thing.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;651892]I think that's the thing some people are wondering about that, word "defer". There are those who do not seem to think Allen"s track record in the area where Shanahan may need help is any better than his. (hence the suggestion of still another piece being needed).

Here's hoping that Shanahan can pull off something that at least six other coaches have tried and failed at when it comes to winning super bowls with one team and being able to dupllicate it with another. Vince Lombardi, Dick Vermiel, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren and Joe Gibbs twice in the same city.[/quote]

That's an excellent point and one several here have brought up. JLC indicated in a blog post a couple weeks ago that Shanahan and Allen were planning to bring in someone like Eric DeCosta to help out in the personnel department. I really think their doing so is crucial to the team's success.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

If I owned the Redskins I would ask about acquiring players too. Shanny said what he likes about BA, among other things, is that they don't always see things the same and he wants someone to give imput who disagrees with him. I think that is what Snyder really needs and I think he's got it. Vinny was a yes man. MS and BA are not. There is nothing wrong about an owner enquiring about players, he just needs someone to tell him no and why not.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I am not going to temper my expectations. I finally have people in place that I trust. I have done nothing but temper my expectations the past decade. I don't expect a Super Bowl next year but I think with a few good moves they could contend for the playoffs. People on this board were predicting playoffs last summer with Zorn and Vinny running things. Turnarounds in the NFL can happen quickly and as bad as they were this year a lot of the losses were close and could be wins next year with better coaching and improved talent in certain areas. I think a true Super Bowl contender is a few years away but a fun team that plays meaningful games in December is possible next year.