Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=redskins202;663020]Yes ....he is maybe better than Bradford if anything. both are comparable I think the difference is Bradford more leadership and maturity and accuracy vs Clausen better mobility, quicker throw on and in the throw, great fade throws, HUGE STUDYING RAT.


Both are worth a 4th round pick. Okung is an overrated OT and I wouldn't pick him if my life depend on it, he gets killed against big bull rushing DE's.

Trent Cole-Justin Tuck- Dware would chew him up.[/quote]

If anything Okung is becoming underrated at this point. The only overrated tackle that I see right now is Anthony Davis. As soon as I here that a guy is given a first round grade and it's based mainly on upside rather then production I see a HUGE red flag. Upside is why the Bills select Aaron Maybin instead of Brian Orakpo.

Upside is why Heyward-Bey gets selected ahead of Crabtree and why some team is going to be very disapointed when they select Jason Piere-Paul (DE USF) with his whooping 6 sacks but amazing edge speed.

If you can't produce at the collegiate level then you shouldn't be considered a first round pick thanks to measureables. Save the non-productive superfreaks for round 3 and beyond.

By the way pet peeve of mine but it's a 4th overall pick not a 4th round pick. Otherwise the NFL draft would be 256 rounds.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=over the mountain;663021]

dirt - do you agree, disagree or in some way agree with my take on why a shotgun qb in college makes it harder to evaluate and predict how that qb will play in the nfl?[/quote]

Not at all. I mean in the end they're same set up and pass but the difference in mechanics and history proves that it can be a detriment, and I would be much more worried about Bradford if he didn't have that under center experience but fortunately he does.

Still I mean Joe Flacco proved that shotgun QB's can be effective in the NFL against all odds, especially considering he played against FCS competition.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;663022]If anything Okung is becoming underrated at this point. The only overrated tackle that I see right now is Anthony Davis. As soon as I here that a guy is given a first round grade and it's based mainly on upside rather then production I see a HUGE red flag. Upside is why the Bills select Aaron Maybin instead of Brian Orakpo.

Upside is why Heyward-Bey gets selected ahead of Crabtree and why some team is going to be very disapointed when they select Jason Piere-Paul (DE USF) with his whooping 6 sacks but amazing edge speed.

If you can't produce at the collegiate level then you shouldn't be considered a first round pick thanks to measureables. Save the non-productive superfreaks for round 3 and beyond.

By the way pet peeve of mine but it's a 4th overall pick not a 4th round pick. Otherwise the NFL draft would be 256 rounds.[/quote]

Okung would have never been taken or thought of this high in last years draft. Only reason why skins fans wan't Okung is to basically keep jason Candle and hope that it relives the 80's again. Thats not the case.

Okung isn't that good at all and he's been hyped up since our season was about to finish. Neither less we will draft Bradford or Clausen so I wouldn't worry about the OL. Im sure will find a way to build it.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=redskins202;663024]Okung would have never been taken or thought of this high in last years draft. Only reason why skins fans wan't Okung is to basically keep jason Candle and hope that it relives the 80's again. Thats not the case.

Okung isn't that good at all and he's been hyped up since our season was about to finish. Neither less we will draft Bradford or Clausen so I wouldn't worry about the OL. Im sure will find a way to build it.[/quote]

Keep in mind I definetely want to draft either Clausen or Bradford this year. Especially since next year is limited to the semi-productive genetic freaks in Mallet, Locker, and Prior, none of whom completed 60% of their passes this year which isn't exactly great for a coach that says he wants an acucrate QB.

Besides even if they do improve we're going to have to trade up to get them and personally I see none of them being better then Clausen or Bradford.

With all that said Okung is flat out dominant. If you don't believe me see for yourself. He's easily the most complete tackle prospect I've seen in a long time, maybe Jake Long was a little better but not by much.

[YT]kd2dzpYGoA4[/YT]

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;663025]Keep in mind I definetely want to draft either Clausen or Bradford this year. Especially since next year is limited to the semi-productive genetic freaks in Mallet, Locker, and Prior, none of whom completed 60% of their passes this year which isn't exactly great for a coach that says he wants an acucrate QB.

Besides even if they do improve we're going to have to trade up to get them and personally I see none of them being better then Clausen or Bradford.

With all that said Okung is flat out dominant. If you don't believe me see for yourself. He's easily the most complete tackle prospect I've seen in a long time, maybe Jake Long was a little better but not by much.

[YT]kd2dzpYGoA4[/YT][/quote]
I agree with your QB statement . But the thing about Okung is the reports said put him up against good big rushing DE's he'l get dominated. But the combine isn't to far away so will see.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=redskins202;663027]I agree with your QB statement . But the thing about Okung is[B] the reports said put him up against good big rushing DE's he'l get dominated[/B]. But the combine isn't to far away so will see.[/quote]

What reports? I've seen quite a few and haven't seen anything that even remotely hinted at that.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=redskins202;663027]I agree with your QB statement . But the thing about Okung is the reports said put him up against good big rushing DE's he'l get dominated. But the combine isn't to far away so will see.[/quote]

I second that question, where have you seen this? Links please?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

Clausen won't be participating in the combine (not throwing at least) so this will be a good chance for Bradford to pull ahead in the minds of execs

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;663039]I second that question, where have you seen this? Links please?[/quote]

This was the closest I could find

[url=http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/russell-okung-ot-oklahoma-state.html]Seahawks Draft Blog: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State[/url]

But I would add, as I believe I have mentioned here, that many scouts believe Okung lacks a certain "aggressive" quality-particularly when it comes to run blocking.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;663732]Clausen won't be participating in the combine (not throwing at least) so this will be a good chance for Bradford to pull ahead in the minds of execs[/quote]

So does that mean that Bradford is throwing at the combine?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;663735]So does that mean that Bradford is throwing at the combine?[/quote]

He'll do whatever I damn well tell him to do!

That is...he's expected to, as is Colt McCoy

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;663753]He'll do whatever I damn well tell him to do!

That is...he's expected to, as is Colt McCoy[/quote]

What chu say? Isn't there like 83,448 shoulder surgeries between the two?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;663754]What chu say? Isn't there like 83,448 shoulder surgeries between the two?[/quote]

83,449. Bradford just had one while you weren't looking

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;663732]Clausen won't be participating in the combine (not throwing at least) so this will be a good chance for Bradford to pull ahead in the minds of execs[/quote]

WTF!! why the freak not? he better have a good gosh dang reason. i question some of clausen arm strength. reports say hes got a good to adequate arm but it seems to me he has an avg to slightly under avg throwing strength.

of course the turf toe on his planting foot doesnt help him step into a throw and really get that lower body action for long throws but i still question his arm strength.

i wonder if he doesnt want to do throwing at the combine to help conceal his lack of throwing strength. just a conspiracy theory

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

If you're not 100%, it's best to not participate in the combine. You can only hurt your draft stock. He'll probably hold private workouts to show off that limp noodle arm.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

i should probably just google it but what is clausen's injury or keeping him from being 100%?

im going to assume that clausen will throw atleast for individual workouts after the combine and maybe the ND draft workout?

to play all season then not throw when he came to indvidual workouts with nfl teams would be a red flag in my book. how can you put a down payment on something you cant even test drive?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

He's recovering from toe surgery

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4919917]Report: Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen can't do drills at combine - ESPN Chicago[/url]

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

^^^ sounds like clausen may be able to throw for the pro day at ND in april. i hope so, i really want to see exactly what his arm strength is. most scouting reports say hes got a strong arm but i havent seen it.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

Honestly nothing jumps out here to me as far as lack of arm strength goes

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGHzJo8Bc5k]YouTube - 2009 Jimmy Clausen Highlights[/url]

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=over the mountain;663951]^^^ sounds like clausen may be able to throw for the pro day at ND in april. i hope so, i really want to see exactly what his arm strength is. [B]most scouting reports say hes got a strong arm but i havent seen it.[/B][/quote]

Depending on the scouting report some say he's got a strong arm, others I've heard or seen said that he may not have the strongest arm for a QB. I think his arms good, probably better than Bradfords in terms of how far he can throw and how hard he can throw.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

I've never seen Clausen in person, but people who have seen him have told me there's no way he's over 6' feet tall (others who have seen him say he's 6'1-6'2") so if he measures at that, that may [i]may[/i] hurt him.

Personally, I can't see him falling out of the top 10

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;663980]I've never seen Clausen in person, but people who have seen him have told me there's no way he's over 6' feet tall (others who have seen him say he's 6'1-6'2") so if he measures at that, that may [I]may[/I] hurt him.

Personally, I can't see him falling out of the top 10[/quote]Everything I've seen has him "listed" at 6'3" or 6'2". You're right though, if he measures at 6' or even 6'1" that could hurt him.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

According to Mel Kiper Clausen is now rated above Sam Bradford. In his latest mock draft he has Clausen going to the Skins.

[url=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4918277&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl%2Fdraft10%2Finsider%2Fnews%2Fstory%3Fid%3D4918277]Mel Kiper: Jimmy Clausen jumps inside the top 5 in the pre-combine mock - ESPN[/url]

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

Any Terps fans here have thoughts on Bruce Campbell?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;664067]According to Mel Kiper Clausen is now rated above Sam Bradford. In his latest mock draft he has Clausen going to the Skins.

[url=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4918277&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl%2Fdraft10%2Finsider%2Fnews%2Fstory%3Fid%3D4918277]Mel Kiper: Jimmy Clausen jumps inside the top 5 in the pre-combine mock - ESPN[/url][/quote]

How can a player jump when there's nothing going on right now.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=WaldSkins;664112]How can a player jump when there's nothing going on right now.[/quote]

Thats what im saying. How can you make a jump like that. And somehow Anthony Davis has passes Russell Okung as the best OT. What the hell?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=PHazard;664125]Thats what im saying. How can you make a jump like that. And somehow Anthony Davis has passes Russell Okung as the best OT. What the hell?[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean, the only thing I can think of is when draft analysts start listening to other draft analysts, and think "Oh yeah thats a good point about (Whoever)." They also have nothing else to do but review tape after tape, so they're probably re-watching Sam Bradford's game against whomever for the 10th time going you know, he looks better than (so and so). Also when ever these draft analysts allow people to send them questions on the internet and they say a certain name a lot of times, the analysts go back and say "hey maybe he is a little better than I thought he was." They also look at prospects and say "well I see this guy as a decent guy with potential, but I could also see an owner like Al Davis or Jerry Jones jumping up to get this guy."

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/articles/washington-redskins/98-mega-mock-munch-suh-solid-at-no-1-mccoy-at-no-2.html"][B]http://dcprosportsreport.com/articles/washington-redskins[/B][/URL][URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/articles/washington-redskins/98-mega-mock-munch-suh-solid-at-no-1-mccoy-at-no-2.html"][B]/98-mega-mock-munch-suh-solid-at-no-1-mccoy-at-no-2.html[/B][/URL]

Newest much released today. Bradford is the biggest gainer of the week in the Top 9, jumping 12% to 49% of mocks projecting him to the Redskins.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

Mock drafts still won't be very meaningful for several weeks, if then.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

I heard an interview with Bradford on NFL radio yesterday and he sounds like a good kid. Smart, good work ethic, sounds like he knows what it's going to take to make it at the next level.

Question for the college gurus, if his shoulder wasn't a concern, how would that change your opinion of him?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;665700]I heard an interview with Bradford on NFL radio yesterday and he sounds like a good kid. Smart, good work ethic, sounds like he knows what it's going to take to make it at the next level.

Question for the college gurus, if his shoulder wasn't a concern, how would that change your opinion of him?[/quote]I don't know if I've leveled-up to guru status :), but for me his shoulder isn't a major concern in my eval of him. I'm more concerned that he was in the spread, making a high percentage of under 10yd throws, playing for a team that talent wise was pretty much head and shoulders above its competition, and throwing to wide open WRs with 7-8 seconds to throw.....plus QBs from Bob Stoops system have not fared well in the NFL.

None of those issues are a knock on him, just a product of the team/offensive system. I think to get a more accurate eval of him you need to look at the championship with UF and you see some good/some bad. I don't think he's going to be a bust, but I don't think he projects to an elite QB in the NFL. His transition will likely take a bit longer than Clausen. I wouldn't spend the #4 overall pick on him. If Clausen's gone, then I go LT.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

We need some new faces on the line period. This Clausen/Bradford debate is sort of moot in my mind. Both are great QBs, but Clausen didn't make a bowl, and Bradford didn't either(Jones played). Bradford if healthy, would be the choice for me if forced to choose between the two, but I don't want either to be honest. Bradford is hot, but he played on a hot team against inferior competition most Saturdays. That in itself means squat, but in the NFL, with the exception of half a dozen teams, mediocrity rules the day. Will Bradford still excel when the "odds are even"? Face it, we are the basement of our division. Can Sam still excel when the odds are even or against him? Most of all though, we need at least our first two picks to be linemen if our future QB is even going to have half a chance of making it in the NFL.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;665700]I heard an interview with Bradford on NFL radio yesterday and he sounds like a good kid. Smart, good work ethic, sounds like he knows what it's going to take to make it at the next level.

Question for the college gurus, if his shoulder wasn't a concern, how would that change your opinion of him?[/quote]


My big thing is could he still excel when he will no longer have th e advantage of having a stacked team playing opponents of markedly inferior quality for a 16 game schedule? The shoulder thing concerns me of course, but my biggest concern is can the kid handle it when the odds are even most Sundays?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;664067]According to Mel Kiper Clausen is now rated above Sam Bradford. In his latest mock draft he has Clausen going to the Skins.

[url=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4918277&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl%2Fdraft10%2Finsider%2Fnews%2Fstory%3Fid%3D4918277]Mel Kiper: Jimmy Clausen jumps inside the top 5 in the pre-combine mock - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Mel Kiper shifted gears on Bradford and now has the Redskins taking Clausen. Could it be he's listening to the whispers of some that Bradford is damaged goods?

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

Both my and Slingin Sammies question is why I say go for Dan Levefour, Stull, Pike, Kafka, Canfield, Elliot, Sheehan, or even Elliot from Purdue. The guys you really should look for are the guys that were in a system most like Shanny's and always played competition that was about the same or even better than the QB's team. I really hope we get one of the above mentioned guys. They had good stats and didn't come from any big powerhouse teams, so they could better handle getting "roughed up".

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Longtimefan;666333]Mel Kiper shifted gears on Bradford and now has the Redskins taking Clausen. Could it be he's listening to the whispers of some that Bradford is damaged goods?[/quote]


Why take Clausen over Kafka? Clausen had more talent to work with than Kafka did and didn't make a bowl. Kafka almost single handedly got Northwestern to 8-4 as he was the was virtually the entire offense, ether passing or running. I know Kafka ran the spread, but he looked pretty good at the East West Shrine game. He should be around in the mid rounds anyway. Too much good QB talent this draft to just look at the sexy picks.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;665785]I don't know if I've leveled-up to guru status :), but for me his shoulder isn't a major concern in my eval of him. I'm more concerned that he was in the spread, making a high percentage of under 10yd throws, playing for a team that talent wise was pretty much head and shoulders above its competition, and throwing to wide open WRs with 7-8 seconds to throw.....plus QBs from Bob Stoops system have not fared well in the NFL.

None of those issues are a knock on him, just a product of the team/offensive system. I think to get a more accurate eval of him you need to look at the championship with UF and you see some good/some bad.[B] I don't think he's going to be a bust, but I don't think he projects to an elite QB in the NFL.[/B] His transition will likely take a bit longer than Clausen. I wouldn't spend the #4 overall pick on him. If Clausen's gone, then I go LT.[/quote]

I completely agree.
I feel the same way about Clausen and McCoy. Neither of the big three QB's are #4 pick in the draft/franchise QB worthy. You are taking a big gamble.
I remember seeing Ben Roethlisburger playing at little Miami of Ohio and seeing him as legit future NFL star. He made his team better and they beat/upset several bigger teams.
When I have seen Bradford or Clausen play against even talent or lesser talented teams they did not impress me.
I do not want us to spend the #4 pick on any three of the QB's. They will be good NFL QB's but they will not be great.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Longtimefan;666333]Mel Kiper shifted gears on Bradford and now has the Redskins taking Clausen. Could it be he's listening to the whispers of some that Bradford is damaged goods?[/quote]

Not really. He's really been impressed with Clausen on film and from talking to his teammates. I think that decision is more of a talent perspective and has nothing to do with Bradfords shoulder.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;662992]I listened to the Kiper/McShay podcast on the draft and they talked QB for a good while. Both like Bradford but have some of the common concerns (injury, build, spread offsense) but both like him early in the 1st..

They widely differ on Clausen however, Mel has him as #6 overall prospect while McShay has him around #36. McShay simply doesn't think he's got what it takes mentally, physically or in work ethic to make it as a big time NFL QB. He thinks that Clausen has peaked and there's not much more that he can grow as a QB.

I don't know that I'd go that far but I will be surprised and disappointed if we pick him at #4.[/quote]

I'd be surprised if we picked either one of the two QB's atop the draft board. If we stay at #4 and don't trade out, I want a player whose going to go to pro-bowls for years to come (Brian Orakpo). We don't absolutely need to draft a QB in this years draft. If we don't drastically improve the O-line we're not going to win many games, so this time next year we'll be talking about Ryan Mallett, Jake Locker, Jeremiah Misoli, Kellen Moore or Case Keenum.

Go on and laugh, but Colt Brennan is the Redskins best kept secret, especially if we trade Jason Campbell. He's got the strongest motivating factor of anyone on the team, "they say" he can't play.

Re: 93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins
 

[quote=Defensewins;666340]I completely agree.
I feel the same way about Clausen and McCoy. [B] Neither of the big three QB's are #4 pick in the draft/franchise QB worthy. You are taking a big gamble. [/B]
I remember seeing Ben Roethlisburger playing at little Miami of Ohio and seeing him as legit future NFL star. He made his team better and they beat/upset several bigger teams.
When I have seen Bradford or Clausen play against even talent or lesser talented teams they did not impress me.
I do not want us to spend the #4 pick on any three of the QB's. They will be good NFL QB's but they will not be great.[/quote]

People were saying the same thing before the draft about Ryan and Flacco. All I know is that all three QB's are smart guys. I personally love the fact that Clausen is a film rat. Usually you'll see the best QB's are the one that study the most. It's a mental position much more so then it is a physical one. Thats why guys with questionable arm strength can't light the world on fire.

And on a side note, given that Clausen and Quinn seemed to be compared to each other a lot, the thing I keep hearing about Quinn is that he spends much more time in the gym then he does studying film.

Though out of curiosity I'd like to know for the people that aren't convinced that these guys aren't top teir QB types as to what you would need to find out to change your mind? Like more arm strength, clean bill of health, better stats?