Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665478]I think, and this is just my own speculation, the Redskins will be in several medium size deals as opposed to one or two major ones[/quote]

Sounds like Parcells when he took over in Miami.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;665503]Smoot hit it on the head.. Anyone with a good sense of football knowledge know's we will atleast attempt to trade JC. He just won't fit in Shanahan's offense. As far as QB in the future goes, I still want Bradford because he has that "IT" Factor that doesn't come around often. Rocky being dealt isn't a big surprise either, he is avg at best anyway. Again it is late FEB, Hell i've heard that Oakland may try and get McNabb for Asomugha[/quote]


I want to see how the "IT" factor does when the odds are even. Hard not to come across like you are going to be a stud with a stacked team playing markedly inferior opponents 9-10 weeks of the season. Just look at Leinart. Guy was hyped as having the "IT" factor also, and he didn't have a suspect shoulder. Warner beat him out, an old fart who played for my uncle at N Iowa.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=PHazard;665475]Colt Brennan starting QB, Jeff Garcia, reliable backup if all of us in the Cult of Colt are wrong (which is possible). #4 pick on OT Okung, #36 pick on OT Charles Brown/Ducassee/Campbell. or trading back and picking up more picks. and still getting quality Olineman. Might be the most benefitial/smartest offseason in the Daniel Snyder era

-Haz[/quote]


Rather have JC as the backup. Garcia would be a step down from JC.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;665537]I don't like the idea of givin up on LL .. i know he's had numerous issues but the talent is there and he has shown that he can straight up play (2 picks in the playoff game a few years back) ... i also would like to hang onto Moss if possible just because I love the guy and I think that the combo of Moss / Kelly / and Showtime DT 11 has some promise .... DT may have the breakout year under Shanny .... I wonder why nobody has mentioned the fact that the Skins' were mentioned on ESPN for being in the McNabb running ???[/quote]
Moss is killing me

between his refusal to buy into the system to him getting double teamed (which is somewhat comical, but if you've got the extra guy, go for it, they're getting to our qb and other receivers no prob) he's near irrelevant, at least as far as a game changer

I don't think that there will ever be anything near a monday night miracle ever again from him, those are career games, but I don't think he'd have it in him even given the opportunity

to me, not being anywhere near the team, it reminds me of someone who decides they don't have to prove anything anymore.. so at this point you'll get your most value by making him prove himself to remain a valuable player.. to me that means having him in plenty of slot duty and returns

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

IF they are going to get anything for Moss they better do it now. They already might have missed the opportunity to get anything of real value for shopping Portis around.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;665581]IF they are going to get anything for Moss they better do it now. They already might have missed the opportunity to get anything of real value for shopping Portis around.[/quote]

If Greg Lewis was [URL="http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/03/greg_lewis_trad.html"]worth a 5th rounder last offseason to the Patriots[/URL], I'm sure Moss would be worth more to a WR-hungry team (i.e. Bears).

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;665574]Rather have JC as the backup. Garcia would be a step down from JC.[/quote]

Im not gonna disagree but it was based on the thought that Shanahan would listen to offers for Campbell and land a good one.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=Redskins_P;665314]Here's a direct quote from my buddy who heard the rumor on 980. Like I said...take it for what its worth....[/quote]

The guy who sounds like High Pitch Eric is Tom Loverro a sports writer from the Wash Times.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

I would love to see this. Pick up a later 1st, and either a 2nd or 3rd. That would be great in my eyes. That could get you two starting tackles and a RB or CB that makes a solid contributions. Hell maybe even one of the Shanahan late round RB studs.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

Interesting offseason rumors. Love it. Sure, I've been reading these in the offseason for years -- and they rarely come true, but still interesting nonetheless. And there's always a "source" who has inside info on these sites.. Problem is -- even the best source is limited -- Shanahan himself may change his mind on these things every day. (heck, I change my own mind on the draft every time I read a new article). Anyway, like reading fiction - it's fun and it keeps your mind off the economy and watching Tiger Woods on TV..

1) [B]Landry[/B] - might have killed his trade value after a sorry season. why did we draft him at #7 again?? Damn. Honestly it might be better to keep him because I do believe he's better than how badly he played last year -- and we'll get little in return for him.
2) [B]Moss [/B]-- I'm all for trading him. He can never be a legitimate threat unless we have a solid #2 because they just double and triple team him -- and you can't throw to a 5 foot midget with 3 corners on him.
3) [B]Campbell [/B]-- If we trade him, who's going to play QB? Brennan was injured and has played about 4-5 quarters in preseason total. Bradford or Clausen would get KILLED with our current offensive line. We'd have to pick up a veteran FA QB to help, but why not just keep JC..

Although improbable, I'd love to trade down. Maybe we could still get Clausen, pick up an extra O-lineman. And O-lineman. And O-lineman. Sigh.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

Shanahan has always seemed to prefer larger WRs so trading Moss makes sense. Trading Laron makes sense almost any way you look at it. His attitude and behavior are ridiculous and there's no way Shanahan/Allen want that crap. Also, Laron's regressed every year in the league. Don't put the blame on coaching. Remember Laron wouldn't come to workouts early...wouldn't return phone calls.

Trading JC only makes sense if we plan on 1) bringing in a true vet like Pennington or Garcia and 2) drafting the QB of the future.

Maybe a best case scenario would be a package trade that brings us another 1st round pick or combo of 2nd rounders etc.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=ethat001;665712]Interesting offseason rumors. Love it. Sure, I've been reading these in the offseason for years -- and they rarely come true, but still interesting nonetheless. And there's always a "source" who has inside info on these sites.. Problem is -- even the best source is limited -- Shanahan himself may change his mind on these things every day. (heck, I change my own mind on the draft every time I read a new article). Anyway, like reading fiction - it's fun and it keeps your mind off the economy and watching Tiger Woods on TV..

1) [B]Landry[/B] - might have killed his trade value after a sorry season. why did we draft him at #7 again?? Damn. Honestly it might be better to keep him because I do believe he's better than how badly he played last year -- and we'll get little in return for him.
2) [B]Moss [/B]-- I'm all for trading him. He can never be a legitimate threat unless we have a solid #2 because they just double and triple team him -- and you can't throw to a 5 foot midget with 3 corners on him.
3) [B]Campbell [/B]-- If we trade him, who's going to play QB? Brennan was injured and has played about 4-5 quarters in preseason total. Bradford or Clausen would get KILLED with our current offensive line. We'd have to pick up a veteran FA QB to help, but why not just keep JC..

Although improbable, I'd love to trade down. Maybe we could still get Clausen, pick up an extra O-lineman. And O-lineman. And O-lineman. Sigh.[/quote]



Landry has been playing out of position. He needs to be able to play closer to the line and out of coverage. If we can get a FS and let him play SS then I think we would see why he was drafted so high. that was the plan when we drafted him with Sean playing FS.

I am all for trading Moss, however I dont see anyone really sending picks our way for him.

Campbell, I have been a long supporter of him. I think he is a good QB that has been playing behind a Jr varsity offensive line, and zero running game.
best case, we trade down get two starting oline man, a RB in the 3rd that makes a contribution.

heard today that Duante Robinson may be on our radar for FA pickup, which sends the message to Carlos "mr toast on double move" Rogers.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;665571][B]I want to see how the "IT" factor does when the odds are even.[/B] Hard not to come across like you are going to be a stud with a stacked team playing markedly inferior opponents 9-10 weeks of the season. Just look at Leinart. Guy was hyped as having the "IT" factor also, and he didn't have a suspect shoulder. Warner beat him out, an old fart who played for my uncle at N Iowa.[/quote]

Amen, brother. Put Jason Cambell on Okla, and he'd pin the ball to the recievers' chest every play.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=Larry Michael is Satan;665864]Amen, brother. Put Jason Cambell on Okla, and he'd pin the ball to the recievers' chest every play.[/quote]

Your Nuts.. It takes alot of accuracy to be that consistent.. JC is horrible at hitting wide open receivers much less when their covered.. I'm not saying Sam is the next Peyton Manning, but there is a reason why this guy missed last season and is still the number 1 rated QB in the draft.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=Defensewins;665337]I have to agree with Shneed10, there is going to be a ton of misdirection from our FO. They would be stupid to telegraph what their real plans are. I would not give these rumors too much attention.
The only rumor I like of these listed is getting Brandon Marshall. He is legit NFL WR and would be a great #1 for us, but giving up on Laron Landry is a big mistake. With some good mentoring and time to develop he is a future Probowl player. We do not have anyone on our roster including Kareem Moore that is ready to step in.

[B]Re: Santana Moss, I have to say the same thing about our Wr's Kelly and Thomas, while they have shown glimpse's of their potential, they are NOT ready to be counted on to be our #1 or #2 WR.[/quote][/B]

Ok then would you rather have a WR who's on his decline in health and stats or would you rather have 2 WR's who are young, healthy and have the potential to be #1?

I don't know about you but I'm looking toward our future so I'll take the 2 young guys. Trade Moss.

another thing someone asked if we are giving up on Landry? No were not, but if you have 2 already decent SS in Doughty and Horton we might as well trade out any one of the 3 that will give us the best value, which happens to be Landry, for whatever trade value or picks or combination of the two that will help the team. We have SS's we need a FS or two.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

Campbell to Buffalo talk is reportedly really heating up. A lot is contigent upon whether Campbell would agree to a long term deal with the Bills. Latest rumor I've heard is Campbell for a 3rd and a 5th. (Others insist Whitner is part of any deal though)

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665891]Campbell to Buffalo talk is reportedly really heating up. A lot is contigent upon whether Campbell would agree to a long term deal with the Bills. Latest rumor I've heard is Campbell for a 3rd and a 5th. (Others insist Whitner is part of any deal though)[/quote]

Does this mean I have to alter my dream draft?:woot:

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665891]Campbell to Buffalo talk is reportedly really heating up. A lot is contigent upon whether Campbell would agree to a long term deal with the Bills. Latest rumor I've heard is Campbell for a 3rd and a 5th. (Others insist Whitner is part of any deal though)[/quote]

A long term deal with the Bills eh

Poor guy

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;665896]Does this mean I have to alter my dream draft?:woot:[/quote]

Um...I'm not sure what your dream draft is. Still, I'd wait before you alter any plans

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

a 3 and a 5? I think I'd rather keep the guy. He has shown flashes that he can play at a high level. Let's assemble a real NFL-caliber offensive line. Who knows if the guys we pick by trading JC to Buff will pan out.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

Well, I would guess that the 5th is conditional for 2011 and could move up depending on how Campbell plays.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665903]Well, I would guess that the 5th is conditional for 2011 and could move up depending on how Campbell plays.[/quote]

that isn't encouraging. the bills suck!

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=DIE-NASTY;665905]that isn't encouraging. the bills suck![/quote]
That maybe true, but the conditional would be based on Campbells performance and he has managed good numbers behind this line, he ought to do as well behind theirs.
Not sold on the trade, but I am really open to whatever BA/MS do if they think it is the best for the Skins.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665903]Well, I would guess that the 5th is conditional for 2011 and could move up depending on how Campbell plays.[/quote]

Just curious, but if there is a work stoppage in 2011 would we lose a conditional pick or would it be moved to 2012?

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

3rd and a conditional 5th wouldn't be bad

could see Whitner come here.. what if we sent them someone?

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=ethat001;665712]Interesting offseason rumors. Love it. Sure, I've been reading these in the offseason for years -- and they rarely come true, but still interesting nonetheless. And there's always a "source" who has inside info on these sites.. Problem is -- even the best source is limited -- Shanahan himself may change his mind on these things every day. (heck, I change my own mind on the draft every time I read a new article). Anyway, like reading fiction - it's fun and it keeps your mind off the economy and watching Tiger Woods on TV..

1) [B]Landry[/B] - might have killed his trade value after a sorry season. why did we draft him at #7 again?? Damn. Honestly it might be better to keep him because I do believe he's better than how badly he played last year -- and we'll get little in return for him.
2) [B]Moss [/B]-- I'm all for trading him. He can never be a legitimate threat unless we have a solid #2 because they just double and triple team him -- and you can't throw to a 5 foot midget with 3 corners on him.
3) [B]Campbell [/B]-- If we trade him, who's going to play QB? Brennan was injured and has played about 4-5 quarters in preseason total. Bradford or Clausen would get KILLED with our current offensive line. We'd have to pick up a veteran FA QB to help, but why not just keep JC..

Although improbable, I'd love to trade down. Maybe we could still get Clausen, pick up an extra O-lineman. And O-lineman. And O-lineman. Sigh.[/quote]

Hmm, where do I start.....

1)[B] Landry[/B]-- We have 3 talented SS's right now. We need a FS or two. No way do we get the same type of trade value out of Doughty or Horton. So Landry makes sense. Don't know why we picked him up other then we needed a SS to play along side Taylor, then we lost Taylor and the team felt LL could work out at FS....which I would disagree with.

2) [B]Moss[/B]-- I think we all have mentioned and almost agreed that Moss is more of a #2 WR vs. a #1. So talking about picking up a viable #2 would only leave us with two #2's. We need a Marshall, Bryant, or T.O. type of WR. Keep Moss if you want to play second fiddle but be prepared for his regular season injury. I'd trade Moss and see what I could get for ARE, if nothing then cut him. Bring in a big #1 type WR.

3)[B] JC[/B]-- I'm in the tender JC catagory only cause I don't think there's another QB out there who would be as safe with the ball as JC. Collins need to go due to age. Let JC be the Vet back up, but JC won't like to hear that. I'd still go after a QB in the first round and Bradford or whoever is more accurate with the ball would be picked. I'm hedging our record will be better next year and we won't have a top 5 pick which means we can't wait till next year to find a Franchise QB.

Some will argue that none of the QB's this year are a lock or guarentee to be a Franchise QB..... well honestly no QB coming out of the draft is a lock. But the higher the quality pick usually gets you a higher quality QB as with all the other positions. I'd draft Bradford and start JC until Bradford was up to speed. But if we can get good trade value then trade away.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

why draft a rookie qb this year? We'll have to pay him Stafford type money and he won't have a very good line in front of him. We should address the o-line this year with our first overall pick and probably our second and then draft a qb next year when if and when the rookie cap is instituted. Our line will be more seasoned (sanchez played pretty well all things considered behind a good o-line, stafford got the crap kicked out of him because their line is about as bad as ours) and we wont have to pay some PROSPECT Peyton Manning money. And who knows, if we upgrade our line and we keep JC, maybe he plays much better and we resign him which would negate the need to use a high pick in next year's draft on a QB.
Sorry, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but it makes me feel better.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

DIE-NASTY great post the same people that bashed Vinny for taking skilled players instead of a O Line are now wanting to draft a QB that may never work out.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=DIE-NASTY;665917]why draft a rookie qb this year? We'll have to pay him Stafford type money and he won't have a very good line in front of him. We should address the o-line this year with our first overall pick and probably our second and then draft a qb next year when if and when the rookie cap is instituted. Our line will be more seasoned (sanchez played pretty well all things considered behind a good o-line, stafford got the crap kicked out of him because their line is about as bad as ours) and we wont have to pay some PROSPECT Peyton Manning money. And who knows, if we upgrade our line and we keep JC, maybe he plays much better and we resign him which would negate the need to use a high pick in next year's draft on a QB.
Sorry, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but it makes me feel better.[/quote]

Maybe Bradford will need surgery on his other shoulder from the pounding he will take if the OL is not addressed.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;665924]Maybe Bradford will need surgery on his other shoulder from the pounding he will take if the OL is not addressed.[/quote]

How did Drew Brees's injured shoulder turn out for the Saints?

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

Why are we such an impatient group/team that we have to try to add by subtraction? Why can't we keep the good players we have and take 3 years to build through the draft and FA over time? We don't have to trade Santana Moss, LaRon Landry, Chris Cooley etc. just because some are desperate for more draft picks.
If we have learned one thing from the Snyder era is trying to build a winner in one or two whirlwind off seasons does not work for us. We end up regressing.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=Defensewins;665927]Why are we such an impatient group/team that we have to try to add by subtraction? Why can't we keep the good players we have and take 3 years to build through the draft and FA over time? We don't have to trade Santana Moss, LaRon Landry, Chris Cooley etc. just because some are desperate for more draft picks.
If we have learned one thing from the Snyder era is trying to build a winner in one or two whirlwind off seasons does not work for us. We end up regressing.[/quote]
sometimes wiping the slate clean helps, you bring in fresh guys that are handpicked for your system and brought in under the expectation that they will do their best for you because the coaching staff wanted you.. those are a few of the factors

We don't have to trade all of those guys but it's expected that you'll field offers, hardly anyone is off the table

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=Defensewins;665927]Why are we such an impatient group/team that we have to try to add by subtraction? Why can't we keep the good players we have and take 3 years to build through the draft and FA over time? We don't have to trade Santana Moss, LaRon Landry, Chris Cooley etc. just because some are desperate for more draft picks.
If we have learned one thing from the Snyder era is trying to build a winner in one or two whirlwind off seasons does not work for us. We end up regressing.[/quote]I wouldn't classify looking at the option to trade Moss, Landry, and Cooley as just desperate for more picks.

Moss - Above average, not great hands, average at best route runner, doesn't give full effort 100% of the time, not a #1 caliber receiver, maybe a year or two (at best) left.

Cooley - Pro Bowl caliber TE, Davis better physically than Cooley and productive this year. Two high quality TEs are a nice to have, but with the holes on the OL, if Cooley could be dealt for a 2nd rounder to pick up an OL starter it's a good move.

Landry - physically gifted, questions about his mental approach and work ethic. If a good trade scenario is offered it can't hurt to consider.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;665936]I wouldn't classify looking at the option to trade Moss, Landry, and Cooley as just desperate for more picks.

Moss - Above average, not great hands, average at best route runner, doesn't give full effort 100% of the time, not a #1 caliber receiver, maybe a year or two (at best) left.

Cooley - Pro Bowl caliber TE, Davis better physically than Cooley and productive this year. Two high quality TEs are a nice to have, but with the holes on the OL, if Cooley could be dealt for a 2nd rounder to pick up an OL starter it's a good move.

Landry - physically gifted, questions about his mental approach and work ethic. If a good trade scenario is offered it can't hurt to consider.[/quote]

I think you need to keep Cooley for one more year to see if Davis is the real thing before you think about moving him. I wouldn't gamble on giving away one of our best offensive weapons just because Davis had a couple of good games.

Now with Moss, I don't know how realistic it would be to trade him. But I just feel we could con a team like the Bears into a 4th rounder for him. Some might say, well you would be getting rid of your "#1" WR or getting rid of a veteran WR...but I just feel that he hasn't been much of an impact in the past two season.

Landry is the typical example of a talented player that you could part ways with (for good compensation) because you have a good replacement (Horton...even Doughty) and is a player that has had his issues in here (attitude, poor play, etc., etc.).

Other than these guys, Rogers would be a good option to trade. He could be valuable to another team, and we could use the picks (especially with Dunta Robinson out there available). I also feel that we have young CBs (Barnes, Tryon) that could eventually step up (or we could draft more DBs later on).

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=DIE-NASTY;665902]a 3 and a 5? I think I'd rather keep the guy. He has shown flashes that he can play at a high level. Let's assemble a real NFL-caliber offensive line. Who knows if the guys we pick by trading JC to Buff will pan out.[/quote]

I think a 3 and a 5 is good value. I am surprised if we can even get a 3.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=celts32;665940]I think a 3 and a 5 is good value. I am surprised if we can even get a 3.[/quote]

For Campbell? Why not? It's not like he was putting up JaMarcus Russell or Derek Anderson numbers last season.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

I would take a 3rd and 5th for Campbell any day of the week.

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

I want to hear more about the JC to Bills deal. Getting a 3rd rd pick for him would shock me...

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

-Uncapped year I don't think it matters moneywise if we take a QB or LT or whatever in the first round

-Feel like I've said this a million times, but drafting a QB in the first round does not equal disregarding the offensive line. The Skins aren't planning on waiting until draft day, taking a QB at 4, and then going home

-Sure Bradford's shoulder is a concern, but all indications are that he's fine and if teams never drafted guys because they had injuries...there'd be no draft to begin with

-There's more buzz though that we're not taking either Bradford or Clausen in the first round (who knows for sure though)

-I think Moss should have been traded last year (if not the year before). His value is slipping but we need to see what we can get out of him. We also need to move forward with DT and Kelly and whoever else as our starting receivers

-Unfortunately we made moves in the past (Duckett, Lloyd, Taylor) that have no hurt us as we try to move forward. We can either sit and moan about it or make do with we have. What we have is guys like Laron Landry playing for a last place team so it makes sense to see what a guy like Landry can bring back. That doesn't mean you just trade him, it means you explore the options

-There will most likely be a draft in 2011 so the conditional status of any pick that year shouldn't be a concern

-Mentioned it in another thread (and many times before) but I'm keeping an eye on Jevan Snead. Reading between the lines of what people are telling me he sounds like a prime mid-round candidate

Re: Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?
 

[quote=The Goat;665943]I want to hear more about the JC to Bills deal. Getting a 3rd rd pick for him would shock me...[/quote]

I don't have much more to tell you right now