Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;671836]That could be cost effective for you but you got to figure out if that's true for you. Let's do some rough math to figure out whether it's worth it for taxpayers to pay for sending out these notification letters.

Given:
1. The government [URL="http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/operations/2010-census-ad-campaign-positioned-to-save-taxpayers-millions-helping-boost-mail-back-participation.html"]saves 85 million[/URL] for every 1 percent of forms returned.
2. The [URL="http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qrDGHO1wIhIJ:www.census.gov/prod/1/pop/p25-1129.pdf+number+of+houses+in+the+united+states&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgfO6vop6_4-L_xcXOoj6A3-PZ_570gTmADQY070UhCkLL6VYI_xVdKhaQVOL2Z3LzaNa87WekriEGek0swSW19gDmEKH0ZmlpXsJUJ7wsz-AqkXnVxzjjrqnPMnNXXWU_smnvN&sig=AHIEtbRoQqTfe8W_V104xaG-4toXsP8pcw"]current estimate[/URL] of the number of households in the united states is 115 million which implies 115 million notification letters will initially be sent out (assuming since we really don't know if everyone was sent a notification letter).
3. The [URL="http://dbcalc.usps.com/CalculatorSetPage.aspx"]USPO bulk mail rate[/URL] is $0.233 per mail (this number is conservative).

If you do the math it costs the government $26,795,000 (115 million * 0.233) to send these notification letters. At cost of ~27 million and the potential of saving 510 million to 1.02 billion sending these notifications is a no brainer even if you don't take into consideration printing cost. Hell, if sending these notification gets 0.5% more people to respond you should send them out![/quote]


Got mine yesterday the printing cost should be fairly low on these all the paper that was used was very low quality.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;671836]That could be cost effective for you but you got to figure out if that's true for you. Let's do some rough math to figure out whether it's worth it for taxpayers to pay for sending out these notification letters.

Given:
1. The government [URL="http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/operations/2010-census-ad-campaign-positioned-to-save-taxpayers-millions-helping-boost-mail-back-participation.html"]saves 85 million[/URL] for every 1 percent of forms returned.
2. The [URL="http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qrDGHO1wIhIJ:www.census.gov/prod/1/pop/p25-1129.pdf+number+of+houses+in+the+united+states&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgfO6vop6_4-L_xcXOoj6A3-PZ_570gTmADQY070UhCkLL6VYI_xVdKhaQVOL2Z3LzaNa87WekriEGek0swSW19gDmEKH0ZmlpXsJUJ7wsz-AqkXnVxzjjrqnPMnNXXWU_smnvN&sig=AHIEtbRoQqTfe8W_V104xaG-4toXsP8pcw"]current estimate[/URL] of the number of households in the united states is 115 million which implies 115 million notification letters will initially be sent out (assuming since we really don't know if everyone was sent a notification letter).
3. The [URL="http://dbcalc.usps.com/CalculatorSetPage.aspx"]USPO bulk mail rate[/URL] is $0.233 per mail (this number is conservative).

If you do the math it costs the government $26,795,000 (115 million * 0.233) to send these notification letters. At cost of ~27 million and the potential of saving 510 million to 1.02 billion sending these notifications is a no brainer even if you don't take into consideration printing cost. Hell, if sending these notification gets 0.5% more people to respond you should send them out![/quote]

Good post but your numbers are wrong. The article in your link talks about all their advertising saving us 85 million not this mailing. I'm guessing they have been taking some heat over this so they through together this letter and those numbers.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;672109][LIST=1][*]I don't believe you know me well enough to know that I would have hated it if Bush had done it.[*]There is no such thing as free advertising. I'm confidant you're aware of this.[*]You don't address the issue of cost effectiveness of the ad. You look at the 2.4 million price tag like a Neanderthal would and pound your chess while screaming "oga-buga" with glee and ignorance.[/LIST]
Check this out, yeah, according Nielson the SB had [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4897094"]105.97 million viewers[/URL]. At [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/03/taxpayers-fork-million-single-census-ad-super-bowl/"]2.5 million price tag[/URL] the cost of the ad per viewer is ~0.024 cents. Bang![/quote]
I actually don't have a problem with the double mailing, I understood the practicality of a notification letter before the census. I spoke of the SB commercial, because regardless of your statistics above, the government is already reaching out to houses via the mailing, the schools, and the market that is watching the SB will generally get counted. Maybe I am falling into a stereotyping trap, but if you are going to spend money for the census, you should focus the efforts on the areas and people who are likely to be uncounted, and those watching the SB don't fit into that. I could be 100% off base on this one, and I certainly feel that I have seen enough of your posts to have a basic understanding of how you quantify things, so I stand by my statement about Bush, you just would have blasted it on a different basis, maybe not doing enough to reach other areas, or some other equally statistically valid argument.


oohhooohh ahhhahhh eeeeheeeh

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

It worked in 2000, so why not now? I don't recall anyone crying about this back then.

[QUOTE]Because of the higher response rate the Census Bureau saved at least $305 million and returned that money to Congress following the census. The advertising campaign in the 2000 Census cost about $100 million, a $205 million return on investment.

Secretary of Commerce Don Evans testified before the Senate in 2001 and praised the Census Bureau for its outreach efforts. "The Bureau successfully implemented paid advertising for the first time in Census 2000, placing over $100 million in media buys designed to educate and motivate the public to respond," Secretary Evans said.

[/QUOTE]

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

Received my waste-of-money letter yesterday. So did my father-in-law, who immediate said "They sure know how to waste our money, don't they?" :Flush: :Flush:

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=Mattyk;672167]It worked in 2000, so why not now? I don't recall anyone crying about this back then.[/quote]

bada boom

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=firstdown;672141]Good post but your numbers are wrong. The article in your link talks about all their advertising saving us 85 million not this mailing. I'm guessing they have been taking some heat over this so they through together this letter and those numbers.[/quote]
its funny how when you disagree with something, the numbers are always wrong. how about backing up your claim with some facts?

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

Just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=dmek25;672266]its funny how when you disagree with something, the numbers are always wrong. how about backing up your claim with some facts?[/quote]

Or you could just read my first post and follow the link in it:

[quote=saden1;671623]It's a way to funnel some much needed cash to the post office. Or it could be that there is [URL="http://www.kyw1060.com/US-Census-Bureau-Explains-Its-Pre-Mailing-Mailing/6533512"]real benefit[/URL] to sending these letters:[/quote]

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;672276]Just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I'm wrong.[/quote]

Have you heard of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem"]infinite monkey theorem[/URL]?

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

i was talking to FD Saden

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;672284]Have you heard of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem"]infinite monkey theorem[/URL]?[/quote]"In 2003, an experiment was performed with six [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Celebes_Crested_Macaque"][COLOR=#002bb8]Celebes Crested Macaques[/COLOR][/URL]. Their literary contribution was five pages consisting largely of the letter 'S'."

Hilarious. What's even funnier is their contributions were more worthwhile than a good number of posts at ES :)

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=dmek25;672266]its funny how when you disagree with something, the numbers are always wrong. how about backing up your claim with some facts?[/quote]
Just click on the link Saden provided. He was saying that the 85 million was saved from the results of the mailing and the 85 million was save from all the advertising done. His post was good and I understand what his point was but he just used the numbers wrong.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

The mailing is likely included in the advertising figure, either way at this point we're talking semantics

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=firstdown;672590]Just click on the link Saden provided. He was saying that the 85 million was saved from the results of the mailing and the 85 million was save from all the advertising done. His post was good and I understand what his point was but he just used the numbers wrong.[/quote]

What I was saying is for every 1% increase in form returns 85 million dollars is saved. This information is available in the links I provided. The census people claim that sending out the notification letters increase the rate of return by 6% to 12%. I tend to believe them. Furthermore, we could save a hell of a lot more than 85 million.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=dmek25;672368]i was talking to FD Saden[/quote]

My post was in support of your post.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;672393]"In 2003, an experiment was performed with six [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Celebes_Crested_Macaque"][COLOR=#002bb8]Celebes Crested Macaques[/COLOR][/URL]. Their literary contribution was five pages consisting largely of the letter 'S'."

Hilarious. What's even funnier is their contributions were more worthwhile than a good number of posts at ES :)[/quote]


LOL...S is my call sign.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

thats interesting saden, thanks for the information. what didnt make sense to me now does.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;672607]What I was saying is for every 1% increase in form returns 85 million dollars is saved. This information is available in the links I provided. The census people claim that sending out the notification letters increase the rate of return by 6% to 12%. I tend to believe them. Furthermore, we could save a hell of a lot more than 85 million.[/quote]

Saden you are correct and I now see how you came up with those numbers based on what the Census people say. I don't believe they get a 6 to 12% jump in return for that mailing.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=firstdown;671500]So I'm looking through the mail last night and I see that I have my 2010 census in the mail so I open it up. What I find is a letter telling me that they will be mailing my census form in about 10 days. Why in the he!! are they mailing me this instead of just mailing out the census form? Is the goverment really that stupid that they think its smart to pre-mail every house hold to let them know their census is coming? What a waist of tax dollars from a goverment that is out of money. They just don't get the problem and never will. Now that I think about it maybe its a stimulas for the Post Office sense they are going broke.[/quote]

Waste of tax payer dollars!! Let me count the ways.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=firstdown;672715]Saden you are correct and I now see how you came up with those numbers based on what the Census people say.[B] I don't believe they get a 6 to 12% jump in return for that mailing.[/B][/quote]

What do you think they get?

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;672284]Have you heard of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem"]infinite monkey theorem[/URL]?[/quote]

Dude this is the WP not Monster.com. Quit posting your resume online.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=saden1;672769]What do you think they get?[/quote]
Maybe 1/2 to 1% jump is what I would guess from all the mailing stats I have ever seen (I have done/do alot of pulk mailing every month so I do know a little about the number game). This is a little different then a co. trying to sell something so they might see a higher return. I looked to see how they came up with that number and it also included another two mailings to the household from what I could figure.

My reaction to the letter was pretty wide spread among other people and I do feel better knowning the full facts of why they sent the mailing. It does not change how I feel about the waste in goverment and my reaction was based on the goverments poor history of wasting money.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

You want to talk about wasted taxpayer dollars, how about his crap:

[url=http://www.sacbee.com/2010/03/13/2604016/irs-suits-pay-visit-to-car-wash.html]Bob Shallit: IRS visits Sacramento carwash in pursuit of 4 cents - Sacramento Business, Housing Market News | Sacramento Bee[/url]

If the IRS showed up at my place of business and started talking down to me over $.04 or even the $200 the fees ballooned it to, I would pay them off in pennies and tell them to go eff themselves in a very loud and abrasive fashion.

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=firstdown;671500]So I'm looking through the mail last night and I see that I have my 2010 census in the mail so I open it up. What I find is a letter telling me that they will be mailing my census form in about 10 days. Why in the he!! are they mailing me this instead of just mailing out the census form? Is the goverment really that stupid that they think its smart to pre-mail every house hold to let them know their census is coming? What a waist of tax dollars from a goverment that is out of money. They just don't get the problem and never will. Now that I think about it maybe its a stimulas for the Post Office sense they are going broke.[/quote]

So I get my letter in the mail the other day and the first (pardon the pun) person I think about is firstdown.

The Warpath is waaayy into my personal life!

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;672784]Dude this is the WP not Monster.com. Quit posting your resume online.[/quote]
+1 for TTE. thats funny stuff

Re: More Waisted Tax Money 2010 Census
 

[quote=12thMan;673579]So I get my letter in the mail the other day and the first (pardon the pun) person I think about is firstdown.

The Warpath is waaayy into my personal life![/quote]
Hey, as long as it was just the letter that brought me to mind its all good. LOL