Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=skinsfan69;672506]Why do people downgrade Clausen cause his teams didn't win? I think that's a terrible way to judge the guy. Did Clausen play defense for ND?????? He's was a damn good college QB. I'm just not sure I'd draft him at #4.[/quote]

Good points

My mock draft as of today has us taking Trent Williams. It's a bit of a reach I know.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Neither Clausen or Bradford is worth the #4 pick in my opinion. Then again, neither is Trent Williams, atleast at this point. Opinions change so much as the draft approaches and players have thier pro days. maybe mine will too. Right now, I'd be thrilled if:

1. Campbell and Brennan both impress Shanahan in camp prior to the draft. Campbell solidifies his status as the starter.
2. The Rams take Bradford
3. We're on the clock and one of Okung, Suh, or McCoy is available. Our phone would be ringing off the hook with trade offers.
4. We trade down, get three picks in rounds 1-4 and use our first four picks on two offensive linemen a nose tackle, and an explosive running back (in roughly that order).

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

^ I am not Clausen's greatest fan but I would argue that he provides more value at #4 than Trent Williams. That said, I'm not sure that I would draft either one at #4. Should Bradford or Okung be gone, I'd be inclined to take Berry or Suh/McCoy to maximize pick value.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Lotus;672540]^ I am not Clausen's greatest fan but I would argue that he provides more value at #4 than Trent Williams. That said, I'm not sure that I would draft either one at #4. Should Bradford or Okung be gone, [B]I'd be inclined to take Berry or Suh/McCoy to maximize pick value.[/B][/quote]

Berry wouuld probably fill more of an immediate need than Suh or McCoy, but i'd be happier with Suh or McCoy.... Phillip Daniels can't play forever. Haynesworth will only be here 3 more years. If we don't get another pass-rusher this year, we'll have to think about it soon enough. McCoy/Maake/Haynesworth on the line with Orakpo blitzing would make for one scary pass-rush.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;672542]Berry wouuld probably fill more of an immediate need than Suh or McCoy, but i'd be happier with Suh or McCoy.... McCoy/Maake/Haynesworth on the line with Orakpo blitzing would make for one scary pass-rush.[/quote]

I'd rather have Berry that those guys. We have no one at FS right now.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Keep in mind this isn't what I would do, just what I suspect might happen. Assuming Bradford, Okung, and Suh are the first 3 guys gone.

I could see Anthony Davis or even McLain under strong consideration as well quite honestly.

But I mean we're still over a month away so a lot could change, and will change.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;672544]I'd rather have Berry that those guys. We have no one at FS right now.[/quote]

He's definitely a great player, there's no question about it. I just have a hard time justifying taking a safety that high. If you have a dominant pass-rush, you can get by with good, but not great safeties. The converse isnt necessarily true though. Our backfield once consisted of Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, and (for a short time) Laron Landry. It didnt really help us that much because we had no pass-rush. IMO its not a good idea to spend a top 5 pick on a defensive player that isnt a passrusher or dominant run-stopper. It'd be interesting to look at some previous drafts and see how front 7 vs. DBs worked out.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=SmootSmack;672546]Keep in mind this isn't what I would do, just what I suspect might happen. Assuming Bradford, Okung, and Suh are the first 3 guys gone.

I could see Anthony Davis or even McLain under strong consideration as well quite honestly.

But I mean we're still over a month away so a lot could change, and will change.[/quote]

McCoy is considered by many to be the best overall player in the draft. If we didnt want to take him for some reason, i'm sure we'd have multiple offers to trade down. unlike last year, we won't have vinny running to hand a card to the commish before 10 seconds have even run off the clock. I'm sure Allen and Shanahan will explore all trade options, even if the guy they truly covet is right there for the taking.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

If I was St. Louis I'd take Gerald McCoy with the 1st overall pick...and trade my 2nd rounder for Jason Campbell

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

I am scratching my head on why everyone thinks Bradford is a sure fire top 5 pick and Clausen is a reach. Let me be the first to say that I hate Notre Dame more than anyone. I can't stand Clausen and I've watched him play on many occasions and have really never been impressed. I mean I watched Brady Quinn accomplish the same things Clausen did and look where Brady Quinn is at this point. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent but not #4 talent. Bradford I have the same feeling about. Everyone is so sold on him but these QB's in this years draft just don't hit me as being solid starting QB's. I think we should trade down, or grab the best solid player on the board that can immediately help our team. If that is OL, LB anything than so be it. If Clausen comes across that screen with a Redskin jersey I'll throw up. Mel has it all wrong on this one.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=SmootSmack;672546]Keep in mind this isn't what I would do, just what I suspect might happen. Assuming Bradford, Okung, and Suh are the first 3 guys gone.

I could see Anthony Davis or even McLain under strong consideration as well quite honestly.

But I mean we're still over a month away so a lot could change, and will change.[/quote]

Any chance everyteam gets scared of McCalin and he falls to the second, pretty please.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;672564]Any chance everyteam gets scared of McCalin and he falls to the second, pretty please.[/quote]

Maybe, but I think Spikes is more likely to fall

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;672549]He's definitely a great player, there's no question about it. I just have a hard time justifying taking a safety that high. If you have a dominant pass-rush, you can get by with good, but not great safeties. The converse isnt necessarily true though. Our backfield once consisted of Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, and (for a short time) Laron Landry. It didnt really help us that much because we had no pass-rush. IMO its not a good idea to spend a top 5 pick on a defensive player that isnt a passrusher or dominant run-stopper. It'd be interesting to look at some previous drafts and see how front 7 vs. DBs worked out.[/quote]

We have no FS. NT is a need but we've guys that can play it. No one we have can play FS. It's the same situation with LT.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

anybody checked out the wonderlic scores? Bradford scored a 36 and Clausen scored a 22....hasn't really proved much b/c Vince Young scored a 6....which means he is almost mildly retarded...Just kidding...but Bradford is clearly smarter...but if he goes to the Rams...I really hope we take Clausen.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

I think the chances of us taking a LB in the first 2 rounds is pretty slim fellas.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;672578]We have no FS. NT is a need but we've guys that can play it. No one we have can play FS. It's the same situation with LT.[/quote]

there are always decent free agent safeties available. not the same with pass rushers. its also one of the least important positions on a team (if there is such a thing as least important player in a sport that requires everyone working in unison).

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[quote=SmootSmack;672551]If I was St. Louis I'd take Gerald McCoy with the 1st overall pick...and trade my 2nd rounder for Jason Campbell[/quote]

I would love for you to be St. Louis!

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=tootergray34;672621]anybody checked out the wonderlic scores? Bradford scored a 36 and Clausen scored a 22....hasn't really proved much b/c Vince Young scored a 6....which means he is almost mildly retarded...Just kidding...but Bradford is clearly smarter...but if he goes to the Rams...I really hope we take Clausen.[/quote]

who cares? dan marino had a very low score too.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Honestly Kiper and McShay are two clowns IMO. They're up there on ESPN to give sort of be rivials and it's kind of silly. Although both are knowledgeable do they really know who we're going to take? I prefer to listen to the NFL Network guys. Mayock, Charles Davis, Casserly and so on seem to give more insightful infomation.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=SmootSmack;672546]Keep in mind this isn't what I would do, just what I suspect might happen. Assuming Bradford, Okung, and Suh are the first 3 guys gone.

I could see Anthony Davis or even McLain under strong consideration as well quite honestly.

But I mean we're still over a month away so a lot could change, and will change.[/quote]

The top 4 picks are going to be interesting. If Bradford goes #1 (which looks like a safe bet), then we'll have either Berry, Suh, or McCoy available at #4. You have to wonder if we'd adopt a BPA strategy at that point. Also, I wonder how many teams would want to jump up and grab one of those three.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=skinsfan69;672662]Honestly Kiper and McShay are two clowns IMO. They're up there on ESPN to give sort of be rivials and it's kind of silly. Although both are knowledgeable do they really know who we're going to take? I prefer to listen to the NFL Network guys. Mayock, Charles Davis, Casserly and so on seem to give more insightful infomation.[/quote]

Woah watch what you say about McShay. He may just be reading your posts right now (and no I'm not him)

Of course no one knows who we're going to take...but I like Mayock as well

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Mayock is the man when it comes to the draft.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;672633]there are always decent free agent safeties available. not the same with pass rushers. its also one of the least important positions on a team (if there is such a thing as least important player in a sport that requires everyone working in unison).[/quote]

We've already got pass rushers out the butt now. With skillet lining up as NT we're set.

Daniels, Maake, Haynesworth

That's not a bad front three. For rushers we have Orakpo, Jarmon, and Carter. You really can't beat that. Now if we had Suh or Cody as NT I could live with that too.

The point of what I'm trying to say is we're alright / good in the trenches. A passing team will eat the secondary's lunch for em though. Not only do we need a FA FS like you say, we need a guy on the bench sucking his thumb learning what it means to be a good player.

Everything else should go to the O-line. I just threw Berry out there because we need a FS and if they picked him or Suh up, I can see where they're going. To not get Okung if he's on the board is ignorant IMO.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=SmootSmack;672676]Woah watch what you say about McShay. He may just be reading your posts right now (and no I'm not him)

Of course no one knows who we're going to take...but I like Mayock as well[/quote]

He's good and all but it just seems like ESPN is trying to get those two to argue w/ one another all the time. It's annoying. Just give me the info and shut the hell up. I don't need two drama queen ego maniacs up there. That's why I like NFL Network. They don't play these silly ass games.

And on a side note Hannah Storm looks foolish with her school girl outfits. Although I'd love to bang the living crap out of her she needs to be a little more classy. But boy does she look sexy as hell for a mddle aged women.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

im the opposite skinsfan. if you have it, why not flaunt it? and McShay and Kiper are head and shoulders above anyone from the NFLN.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=skinsfan69;673043]He's good and all but it just seems like ESPN is trying to get those two to argue w/ one another all the time. It's annoying. Just give me the info and shut the hell up. I don't need two drama queen ego maniacs up there. That's why I like NFL Network. They don't play these silly ass games.

And on a side note Hannah Storm looks foolish with her school girl outfits. Although I'd love to bang the living crap out of her she needs to be a little more classy. But boy does she look sexy as hell for a mddle aged women.[/quote]

Kiper and McShay agree more than they don't, but just like on any other network (including NFLN) when they disagree it stands out

Hannah is all class...and that's all I'm going to say about that :)

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;672697]We've already got pass rushers out the butt now. With skillet lining up as NT we're set.

Daniels, Maake, Haynesworth

That's not a bad front three. For rushers we have Orakpo, Jarmon, and Carter. You really can't beat that. Now if we had Suh or Cody as NT I could live with that too.

The point of what I'm trying to say is we're alright / good in the trenches. A passing team will eat the secondary's lunch for em though. Not only do we need a FA FS like you say, we need a guy on the bench sucking his thumb learning what it means to be a good player.

Everything else should go to the O-line. I just threw Berry out there because we need a FS and if they picked him or Suh up, I can see where they're going. To not get Okung if he's on the board is ignorant IMO.[/quote]

You think we've got pass rushers up the butt? Lets take a look at our DL, shall we?

-Daniels is 37. We can't really rely on him to be a starter all year, let alone beyond that.
-Maake can't even run right now. He may or may not be healthy enough to play for us at all this year, let alone start
- Haynesworth will be here no more than 3 more years. while he's here, he'll only be on the field about 60% of the time.

Now lets look at our linebackers:
- Orakpo - A beast and perfect for the 3-4
- Carter - doesn't fit our system. he's of no value to us
- Jarmon - will be learning a new position and is coming off an injury. we can't rely on him.

of the 6 guys you mentioned, only 2 can be counted on to make solid contributions in 2010. Our pass rush is not as set as you think it is, not in a 3-4. I feel Adding Suh or McCoy would do far more for our defense in the short and long term than adding a guy like Berry to our secondary. We had the best secondary in the league a couple years ago and our defense still got torn apart because we didnt have a good pass rush. Hopefully, we can trade down or use the #4 pick on Okung... but if we pick up Berry and leave Suh or McCoy on the board, i need to just let Smoot or Matty know they should go ahead and ban me for the draft weekend because i'll be doing nothing but complaining.

That said, my opinion could completely change if we trade carter and end up getting Carriker and a good LB in free agency... but as of right now, i'd rank our team needs as:

1. LT
2. RT
3. DE
4. NT
5. RB
6. OLB
7. FS (Landry isn't a BAD FS afterall... we're just wasting his talent there)
8. QB (Would be ranked much higher if i felt there was a single QB in the draft better than Campbell)

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Mayock, Kiper, McShay... does it really matter?

I like all 3, they all have their own opinions and know their shit.

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This is a bit off-topic, but when are compensatory picks awarded? i know we lost demetric evans and im curious whether we'd get anything for that or whether the fact that we signed dock and haynesworth would negate losing evens. i cant remember exactly how the rules work.

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[quote=Mattyk;673054]Mayock, Kiper, McShay... does it really matter?

I like all 3, they all have their own opinions and know their shit.[/quote]The one that most agrees with me at the time is the best. Simple formula, really.

Mayock's ability to understand strengths and weaknesses of college prospects, while having a better ability to understand teams strengths and weaknesses than most NFL types (looking at you, Michael Lombardi) is irreplaceable. But ultimately, they all immerse themselves in their work (even McShay, these days), so they all have earned their expertise.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;673065]This is a bit off-topic, but when are compensatory picks awarded? i know we lost demetric evans and im curious whether we'd get anything for that or whether the fact that we signed dock and haynesworth would negate losing evens. i cant remember exactly how the rules work.[/quote]

They'll be awarded sometime in late March. There's a small, very very very small possibility that the Redskins will get a late 7th round pick

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;673052]You think we've got pass rushers up the butt? Lets take a look at our DL, shall we?

-Daniels is 37. We can't really rely on him to be a starter all year, let alone beyond that.
-Maake can't even run right now. He may or may not be healthy enough to play for us at all this year, let alone start
- Haynesworth will be here no more than 3 more years. while he's here, he'll only be on the field about 60% of the time.

Now lets look at our linebackers:
- Orakpo - A beast and perfect for the 3-4
- Carter - doesn't fit our system. he's of no value to us
- Jarmon - will be learning a new position and is coming off an injury. we can't rely on him.

of the 6 guys you mentioned, only 2 can be counted on to make solid contributions in 2010. Our pass rush is not as set as you think it is, not in a 3-4. I feel Adding Suh or McCoy would do far more for our defense in the short and long term than adding a guy like Berry to our secondary. We had the best secondary in the league a couple years ago and our defense still got torn apart because we didnt have a good pass rush. Hopefully, we can trade down or use the #4 pick on Okung... but if we pick up Berry and leave Suh or McCoy on the board, i need to just let Smoot or Matty know they should go ahead and ban me for the draft weekend because i'll be doing nothing but complaining.

That said, my opinion could completely change if we trade carter and end up getting Carriker and a good LB in free agency... but as of right now, i'd rank our team needs as:

1. LT
2. RT
3. DE
4. NT
5. RB
6. OLB
7. FS (Landry isn't a BAD FS afterall... we're just wasting his talent there)
8. QB (Would be ranked much higher if i felt there was a single QB in the draft better than Campbell)[/quote]

We're talking 3-4 pass rushers. We've also got guys behind the guys you named. Lorenzo and Golston can play on the line. Not to mention, FA just started. You're making my point. We can both name guys we can play in the trenches on a 4-3 and a 3-4 right now. We have no one, and I mean no one who can play LT even half-way decent right now. I would switch up you're list and say these are the most pressing needs:

1) LT
2) RB / OG / C
3) FS / NT
4) LB
5) QB

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Luxorreb;672429]OKUNG! Please![/quote]

So what do you propose in the likely scenario that the draft goes Bradford, Okung, McCoy/Suh?

I really don't want Clausen and especially at #4. I'd only hope that if that top 3 happens that way someone is anxious enough to come and get McCoy or Suh and we can trade down.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Clausen is the only player who i'd have a really hard time accepting, simply because i dont see him as being anywhere near the 4th-best overall player in the draft. Now, if he made it past Buffalo at 9, there's a good chance he'd fall all the way to us at 36; however i think some team would probably jump ahead of us to land him. I've said it before, but i'm really really hoping that Campbell and/or Brennan wow the Shanahans in camp before the draft.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;673097]Clausen is the only player who i'd have a really hard time accepting, simply because i dont see him as being anywhere near the 4th-best overall player in the draft. Now, if he made it past Buffalo at 9, there's a good chance he'd fall all the way to us at 36; however i think some team would probably jump ahead of us to land him. I've said it before, but i'm really really hoping that Campbell and/or Brennan wow the Shanahans in camp before the draft.[/quote]

I agree. Clausen scares me. He's def. not worth a look at the overall #4 pick.
36 pick, yeah for sure but i'd say Berry is a good choice if Okung and Braford are gone.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=Lotus;672679]Mayock is the man when it comes to the draft.[/quote]

He is definitely different from McShay and Kiper. I like Kiper the best though. I do remember though that every year Mayock has a few prospects which are definite "Huh?'s" and head scratchers.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Would you trade the 2nd for Gaither and draft Clausen with the first pick?

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

[quote=SmootSmack;673163]Would you trade the 2nd for Gaither and draft Clausen with the first pick?[/quote]I might trade the 2nd for Gaither and still take an OT.

I'd trade the 2nd for Gaither more because it's great value as opposed to it filling a need (which, obviously, it also does).

Having Gaither would make Bradford more appealing if he makes it to No. 4 though. It would almost make drafting him a good idea. Almost.

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

Would you swap firsts with the Ravens and take Gaither? (not that the Ravens are interested in that necessarily)

Re: Mel/Todd Mock Draft 3.0
 

but the raven.sare interested in gaither for our second? id do either trade if they threw in a pick in rounds 3 through 5.