Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Mattyk;680339]Tebow is not better than any starting NFL QB right now. He doesn't even have the basic fundamentals of footwork down and he's not up to speed with reading NFL defenses.

[B]This Tebow man crush continues to amaze me.[/quote][/B]

[B]I've never seen someone with so little NFL potential get so much hype. Simply amazing. [/B]

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Mattyk;680346]The question was who is Tebow better than [U]right now[/U].

If you plugged him into an NFL game right now, Tebow would simply be overmatched on a variety of levels. There's no way he's better than any starting QB or even backup right now, and he probably won't be until he's sat on a bench for a year or so.[/quote]

Yes but right now is irrelevant. If any team drafted him he'd go through a full training camp so why ask that?
I don't think that Dez Bryant would be better than ARE [U]right now.[/U] Why? because he needs to atleast go through training camp to get his routes down. Man I don't think Russell Okung is better than any LT/RT we have [U]right now[/U]..

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=skinsfan69;680348][/B]

[B]I've never seen someone with so little NFL potential get so much hype. Simply amazing. [/B][/quote]

You don't see one of the greatest college football players of all times game not translate to the pros though do you? Well maybe that's wrong, but still he deserves every second of it I think.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;680344]I don't follow Oakland, Cleveland, St. Louis, Seattle or Buffalo. I do follow the Skins and i believe if we are going to turn this franchise around soon unless we trade down for more picks we can't use a valuable draft pick on an experiment under our current circumstances.[/quote]

No doubt about it, the Redskins should not pick him. Why? Because he's reached his full potential and to change that would need to be an experiment like you said.
The more and more we discuss QB's and the #4 pick. The more I feel like we should just get Okung and have something to talk about next year when Campbell does the same thing for the 3rd year.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

The thing I find funny about the Tebow hype is if you listen to the scouts or so called experts, opinions on him vary greatly. There are some genuine concerns about his mechanics, ability to read defenses, ability to play in a pro style offense, etc. that shouldn't be brushed aside. Yet his supporters just seem to ignore all that and think his determination is going to trump all of his negatives.

Tebow isn't the first playing coming into the NFL with great intangibles. Those things can only take you so far though.

I'm really on the fence with the guy, I can't say either way where I see him in 5 years. Those that have their minds made up good or bad, are those that I tend to tune out.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=IrMitchell;680349]Yes but right now is irrelevant. If any team drafted him he'd go through a full training camp so why ask that?
I don't think that Dez Bryant would be better than ARE [U]right now.[/U] Why? because he needs to atleast go through training camp to get his routes down. Man I don't think Russell Okung is better than any LT/RT we have [U]right now[/U]..[/quote]


I didn't ask the question, I merely answered it as it was asked.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=IrMitchell;680349]Yes but right now is irrelevant. If any team drafted him he'd go through a full training camp so why ask that?
I don't think that Dez Bryant would be better than ARE [U]right now.[/U] Why? because he needs to atleast go through training camp to get his routes down. Man I don't think Russell Okung is better than any LT/RT we have [U]right now[/U]..[/quote]

I have to disagree with the statement that it is irrelevant. As an organization you draft to upgrade a position why would we draft Okung if he is not more talented than Heyer. Which he is right now by the way. Tebow is not more talented than Chris Leak which i believe isn't in the league anymore. So why draft him even in the 6th round why?

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Mattyk;680352]The thing I find funny about the Tebow hype is if you listen to the scouts or so called experts, opinions on him vary greatly. There are some genuine concerns about his mechanics, ability to read defenses, ability to play in a pro style offense, etc. that shouldn't be brushed aside. Yet his supporters just seem to ignore all that and think his determination is going to trump all of his negatives.

Tebow isn't the first playing coming into the NFL with great intangibles. Those things can only take you so far though.

I'm really on the fence with the guy, I can't say either way where I see him in 5 years. Those that have their minds made up good or bad, are those that I tend to tune out.[/quote]

Exactly, it's kinda funny too because I remember during the sugar bowl thinking wow thank god the Redskins will have a chance to draft this guy so just for kicks I checked out a mock draft on him. Turns out he was favored to go 10th to the Jags, how things have changed eh? The only thing that changed that too was the Senior Bowl, more scouts and his pro day and now he's a 3rd round+ quaterback and should only be taken in by a successful team, but with that being said you know if you draft him he's gonna do whatever it takes to win.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

Okung would easily be our best tackle if drafted today.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;680354]I have to disagree with the statement that it is irrelevant. As an organization you draft to upgrade a position why would we draft Okung if he is not more talented than Heyer. Which he is right now by the way. Tebow is not more talented than Chris Leak which i believe isn't in the league anymore. So why draft him even in the 6th round why?[/quote]

Ya I guess you broke that down a little bit better, but at the same time it depends on the position. I guess at LT Okung is better you're right, but no way in hell is Tebow worse than Colt Brennan I mean come on.

And you must have missed me saying more than once "I do not want te Redskins to draft him", doesn't mean I don't think he'll make a decent starter someday.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;680357]Okung would easily be our best tackle if drafted today.[/QUOTE]

As would any of the tackles projected to go in the first two rounds of the draft today.

When Stephon Heyer is the best tackle on your team, then something is clearly wrong. OT is by far the most pressing need on our team right now.

We need atleast 2, and preferably three, tackles better than Heyer on this team by the start of the season.

EDIT: An argument could easily be made that Hicks is the best Tackle on our team. However, i havent heard him officially be spoken of as anything other than a starting RG or backup T/G.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Mattyk;680357]Okung would easily be our best tackle if drafted today.[/quote]

Absolutely. Our o-line would be upgraded with that one pick alone.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=53Fan;680362]Absolutely. Our o-line would be upgraded with that one pick alone.[/quote]

When did LT's become such a vouge pick. It seemed like back in the 80's a guy like Okung might have lasted to till the back end of round 1.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;680376]When did LT's become such a vouge pick. It seemed like back in the 80's a guy like Okung might have lasted to till the back end of round 1.[/quote]

This is exactly how I feel. Get our tackle in the second round or trade for Gaither.

In my eyes on a scale of 1 to 10 in importance I got QB at 10 and LT at 6-7.
The more i think about it, the mro eI feel that Gaither for our 37th would be a perfect trade.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

Its just how the talent stacked this year. It is easier at this time to project Suh and Okung have enough talent and play at positions where they will play right away... and make difference.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;680376]When did LT's become such a vouge pick. It seemed like back in the 80's a guy like Okung might have lasted to till the back end of round 1.[/quote]

When offensive lines play like ours did in 2009, drafting a tackle is super vogue.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

Tebow, the best Qb out the draft. SEC rules!!!

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;680376]When did LT's become such a vouge pick. It seemed like back in the 80's a guy like Okung might have lasted to till the back end of round 1.[/quote]

I just glanced through the draft results in the 80s and nearly every year there were tackles taken in the top 5, top 10, top 15, etc.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

The amount of utility the QB provides to the team is not infinite and is not unaffected by the dudes around him.

And besides, who would make a big transaction without some sort of insurance? Having an LT is a good insurance policy for a QB, especially one that's commanding top 4 money.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

I like Tebow in alot of was and do think that his intangibles will make him sucessful. Regardless of what analyst (and us fans) think, it's impossible to measure how much a guy wants it. If you get a guy who is willing to give up his life (in a work ethic sense) to achieve something, I'll bet on that guy every time.

However, we are not taking him 4th overall and I doubt he falls to us when we pick in the 2nd round. I hope, and believe, that Tebow will have success at the NFL level if he goes to the right situation.

That being said, I would love to get the winningest QB in college history with our 2nd round pick.....Colt McCoy.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

I don't have a good opinion on Tebow, but I would get a Tebow type later in the draft if our O-line issues are not addressed. Our o-line as it stands will have JC running for his life! If the Skins take anything other than tackle in the draft then the season will be doomed to repeat itself with a new learning curve for the defense. I would see another 4-12 year ahead under that scenario.

I also don't have a good feeling on any of the other QB's either! They are either to brittle and thin or arm strength is suspect.

Washington has had a tradition of winning with the second tier QB!!!! Check the super bowls! If our line is strong the skins have a strong record!

my opinion

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Mattyk;680339]Tebow is not better than any starting NFL QB right now. He doesn't even have the basic fundamentals of footwork down and he's not up to speed with reading NFL defenses.

This Tebow man crush continues to amaze me.[/quote]

No doubt. He's a major question and the talk of him going in the late first to second baffles the hell out of me. I'd be higher on most of the 2nd tier QBs.. to me he's 3rd tier.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

then again, pat white got drafted in the 2nd, so it's feasible to say that somebody could reach for him

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=tryfuhl;680487]then again, pat white got drafted in the 2nd, so it's feasible to say that somebody could reach for him[/quote]

It could be argued he was a "scheme fit" for Miami's wildcat, so he was higher on their boards than others. Alas, who knows who would've been taken if the Skins didn't hand Miami that 2nd round pick in the first place.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;680492]It could be argued he was a "scheme fit" for Miami's wildcat, so he was higher on their boards than others. Alas, who knows who would've been taken if the Skins didn't hand Miami that 2nd round pick in the first place.[/quote]

very true, good points

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;680376]When did LT's become such a vouge pick. It seemed like back in the 80's a guy like Okung might have lasted to till the back end of round 1.[/quote]When LT broke Theismann's leg and destroyed the chance for the Skins to run off about 5-6 SB appearances in a row. And when QB contracts took off into the stratosphere.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

I'm still on the Colt McCoy bandwagon. Good value in the 2nd round if we can get him. I see him as a more mobile Chad Pennington. Chad doesn't have a cannon either but I"ll take a guy that's making the right reads and hitting people in stride over a 'gunslinger' any day.

Re: Tebow - More Upside than Downside for a franchise......
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;680514]When LT broke Theismann's leg and destroyed the chance for the Skins to run off about 5-6 SB appearances in a row. And when QB contracts took off into the stratosphere.[/quote]

I hear you. Actually the funny thing is recently I was looking at the draft history of the late 90's early 2000's and remember reading a USA Today article earlier in the decade that QB play was at an all time low. In looking at the draft it wasn't hard to see why.

Guys like Rick Mierer getting drafted with less then 2,000 yards passing and something like 13TD's. Guys that could barely get over 50% passing. The 5 yard rule has to be responsible for part of it but at the same time I think QB's have been a lot more prepared then they have been in eyars past. By the way I'm still looking for Ryan Leafs college stats. Something tells me when I find them I won't be impressed.

Anyway back to Tebow which is why I'm bumping this thead. If we do trade down and end up with a second round pick I would seriously count on us drafting Tebow. McNabb is the perfect stopgap for a guy that needs to learn/relearn everything. Not that I'm ready to get rid of McNabb anytime soon. Man to think thats our QB now. Took what, like 20 years or something to find a franchise QB?