Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

Getting McNabb would be a huge mistake. I just hope this is just BA f'ing around with other teams. I'm still amazed at how so many fans still think we're one player away from contending. We need to rebuild (starting with the oline) and stop wasting picks on what seems like a quick fix.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);681845]Okay, anyone who's been keeping track, I am all for Jason Campbell and I don't blame him at all for our downfall. For instance the fact that he hasn't had a big win where he made the big comeback is not his fault. For example, he put up big numbers against Gregg William's Defense and almost beat the undefeated Saints. After an allpro level game, he BEGAN a bigtime comeback drive... then Sellers fumbled... so it's not like JC is the enemy and i do firmly believe that with the new system, and an o-line, JC can shine.

That being said, McNabb is, right now, a better quarterback... Period. If we got McNabb and lost JC... i would get over it. ESPECIALY if we picked up a 2nd or 3rd round QB to learn under him. JC training Tebow vs McNabb training Tebow... Hmmm...

Donovan would give us a legitimately higher chance THIS year and would allow for a better chance of a better replacement in the future.[/quote]

LOL.

I don't think anyone would argue that the Eagles had a hell of a lot better OL due to their constantly replenishing the OL through the draft. Yet McNoodles stats are not that much better then Campbells. He had 5 more TD's. Only a few less interceptions with about 75 less yrds on the year. Due to that his QB rating was about 10 points higher? All because of the less yrds and fewer interceptions.

Yep, McNoodle is definitly a hell of a lot better.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=jdc65;681838]
Grab a young QB this year, even if it is Tebow, and build a Championship team around him as he grows into the position. In 4 years, our QB will be in his prime, and with a solid team around him.[/quote]

no no no

on the Tebow part

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

33-year old McNabb isn't a meaningful improvement on Campbell. No reason to be delusional on this tire-kicking. It's merely a personal preference between two middle-of-the-pack guys.

When he's on the open market, lets consider him as a veteran stopgap. Until then, let's just calm down and let these trade winds blow over.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

Compare the stats....

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=MCN017517&player2=CAM375235&player3=null&player4=null&position=quarterback&playerOne=Donovan+McNabb&playerTwo=Jason+Campbell&playerThree=Select+a+Player...&playerFour=Select+a+Player]NFL - Head to Head Stats[/url]...

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;681792]Guy seems to always have some exaggerated posts. Or he's just a lil off.[/quote]

ok ok ok, I might have some exaggerated posts...but I promise you i'm not a little off...I try to keep my posts comical...sorry if I offend anybody though.

McNabb is certainly not a BUM, i'm just referring to the fact that he is an EAGLE and I hate the IGGLES, so can you really blame me? But McNabb is certainly a first ballot HOF in my honest opinion.

But, I do feel the best QB if we were to draft one would be Clausen...I know wrong thread...but that's just how I feel. I don't have any screws loose so don't worry fellas. Although some of my posts may lead people to believe otherwise!

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

I'm totally at a loss as to how someone like Campbell can look to have done better in almost each catagory or be relativily close in stats in others and have two totally different passer ratings.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;681857]33-year old McNabb isn't a meaningful improvement on Campbell. No reason to be delusional on this tire-kicking. It's merely a personal preference between two middle-of-the-pack guys.

When he's on the open market, lets consider him as a veteran stopgap. Until then, let's just calm down and let these trade winds blow over.[/quote]

GTripp, I know you do your homework but you are more than stretching when you lump JC and McNabb together. Now maybe you are basing your statement on statistical analysis but you haven't been qualifying your statements.

JC is a middle of the pack guy, no doubt. McNabb isn't even close. Here is the bottom line, Philly under McNabb has dominated the NFC East. It isn't even close. JC has accomplished nothing, and I mean NOTHING. He hasn't won any meaningful regular season games. He has won no divisions. He hasn't been to the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game. He has been to zero NFC Championship games and from a statistical perspective JC is way below the mean from a winning percentage as a starting QB. Do we need to bring up Pro-Bowls?

If we are talking about winning, which is why they step on the field, McNabb is a great quarterback. JC is a nobody.

So you need to be a little more specific when you lump the two together.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=SBXVII;681859]Compare the stats....

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=MCN017517&player2=CAM375235&player3=null&player4=null&position=quarterback&playerOne=Donovan+McNabb&playerTwo=Jason+Campbell&playerThree=Select+a+Player...&playerFour=Select+a+Player"]NFL - Head to Head Stats[/URL]...[/quote]


I didn't feel like looking it up, does it compare wins, winning percentage, playoff wins an division wins? Since the stats are comparable, those categories are comparable, right?

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;681863]GTripp, I know you do your homework but you are more than stretching when you lump JC and McNabb together. Now maybe you are basing your statement on statistical analysis but you haven't been qualifying your statements.

JC is a middle of the pack guy, no doubt. McNabb isn't even close. Here is the bottom line, Philly under McNabb has dominated the NFC East. It isn't even close. JC has accomplished nothing, and I mean NOTHING. He hasn't won any meaningful regular season games. He has won no divisions. He hasn't been to the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game. He has been to zero NFC Championship games and from a statistical perspective JC is way below the mean from a winning percentage as a starting QB. Do we need to bring up Pro-Bowls?

If we are talking about winning, which is why they step on the field, McNabb is a great quarterback. JC is a nobody.

So you need to be a little more specific when you lump the two together.[/quote]I was not aware that the wins came with McNabb as part of the trade. I consider myself corrected.

Why is it so foreign to lump McNabb in with the rest of the middle-of-the-pack NFL QBs? He's won one division since Campbell has been in the league, and Garcia started the final 5 weeks of that year. To give McNabb credit for that, we'd have to give Campbell at least the benefit of winning the WC in 2007. Playoff wins are playoff wins, McNabb has two since Campbell came into the league, and Campbell has no appearances. Advantage McNabb, but again, citing playoff wins of another team under another coaching staff that didn't have a Blache or a Zorn or a Saunders on it is exactly the personal preference I'm speaking of.

McNabb being a mid-tier QB is only one part of the story (as opposed to everything you need to know), but it's certainly true these days.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;681866]I was not aware that the wins came with McNabb as part of the trade. I consider myself corrected.[/quote]

Why would you trade for him or for any QB, for better stats or wins?

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;681868]Why would you trade for him or for any QB, for better stats or wins?[/quote]Well, neither come [I]with[/I] the trade, technically, as both are merely a record of past performance. But I'd definitely look at the production first and foremost.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

You guys are funny. The whole thing might just be to see what they want for McNabb so they can expect what to get from trading JC. Sort of an intelligence gathering operation for further use. McNabb is not the best in the league by far, and is indeed just above average like JC, and he had a much better WR corp than JC to work with. I would worry more about JC being future trade bait in the not too distant future. Look for a possible deal come draft time.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;681866]I was not aware that the wins came with McNabb as part of the trade. I consider myself corrected.

Why is it so foreign to lump McNabb in with the rest of the middle-of-the-pack NFL QBs? He's won one division since Campbell has been in the league, and Garcia started the final 5 weeks of that year. To give McNabb credit for that, we'd have to give Campbell at least the benefit of winning the WC in 2007. Playoff wins are playoff wins, McNabb has two since Campbell came into the league, and Campbell has no appearances. Advantage McNabb, but again, citing playoff wins of another team under another coaching staff that didn't have a Blache or a Zorn or a Saunders on it is exactly the personal preference I'm speaking of.

McNabb being a mid-tier QB is only one part of the story (as opposed to everything you need to know), but it's certainly true these days.[/quote]

The QB is the single most influential player on the field.

JC's absolute best season was 8-8. So far his ceiling is the mean and the same year that JC had his best season, McNabb was playing for the NFC championship. Following that season, McNabb won 11 games, JC lost 12.

I really don't give a damn about the YPA is or the completion percentage and all that. At this point in time, McNabb is a proven winner, JC is a proven loser.

You can prove anything you want with statistics at some point personal accountability needs to be considered.

JC has had plenty of opportunities to make the play to win us games late and he consistently falls short. I wish things were different but his history cannot be changed.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;681871]Well, neither come [I]with[/I] the trade, technically, as both are merely a record of past performance. But I'd definitely look at the production first and foremost.[/quote]

The only production I care about is measured in the win column.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

Straight up stats don't tell the whole story.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=SBXVII;681861]I'm totally at a loss as to how someone like Campbell can look to have done better in almost each catagory or be relativily close in stats in others and have two totally different passer ratings.[/quote]I wouldn't say their passer ratings are totally different. McNabb's at 92, Campbell's at 86. Passer rating is accurate in the general sense (100+ always good, 60- bad...in this era), but a 6 point difference in QB rating doesn't suggest anything.

Furthermore, it's based entirely on rate stats. That's where it derives most of it's accuracy from, but it also says that Campbell shouldn't get any more credit for starting 16 games than McNabb should get for starting 14. Where as something like passing yards or passing completions or first downs or touchdowns does consider who was able to stay healthy.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;681874]The QB is the single most influential player on the field.

JC's absolute best season was 8-8. So far his ceiling is the mean and the same year that JC had his best season, McNabb was playing for the NFC championship. Following that season, McNabb won 11 games, JC lost 12.

I really don't give a damn about the YPA is or the completion percentage and all that. At this point in time, McNabb is a proven winner, JC is a proven loser.
[B]
You can prove anything you want with statistics at some point personal accountability needs to be considered. [/B]

JC has had plenty of opportunities to make the play to win us games late and he consistently falls short. I wish things were different but his history cannot be changed.[/quote]This boldly emphasizes my point. You can prove anything you want with wins and losses, but ultimately, you are what you are. Having a really successful run from 2001-2004 cannot make McNabb larger than life. What he has become is an aging middle-of-pack passer. This should not be construed into something it isn't.

When you manipulate the sample enough, you can produce evidence that suggests that Mark Sanchez is a proven winner, while Tom Brady is a proven loser. One guy won two playoff games this year, the other won none. Sanchez won more games overall this year as well...in fact, they've won the same number of NFL games since 2007, including playoffs. If that's the production you care about, then stay consistent. To argue that Brady is more winning than Sanchez, you would have to either cite the pre-Sanchez past, or go to the stats. But if personal accountability is the disguise for mis-analysis, you would just conclude that Sanchez is a winner and that Brady should focus on trying to improve his plight in the future.

But because you have access to a bunch of information that suggests that I'm completely out of my mind to suggest Sanchez>Brady, you would just reject the argument of personal accountability on Brady's part. Which is exactly what I'm doing with McNabb-Campbell.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;681882]This boldly emphasizes my point. You can prove anything you want with wins and losses, but ultimately, you are what you are. Having a really successful run from 2001-2004 cannot make McNabb larger than life. What he has become is an aging middle-of-pack passer. This should not be construed into something it isn't.

When you manipulate the sample enough, you can produce evidence that suggests that Mark Sanchez is a proven winner, while Tom Brady is a proven loser. One guy won two playoff games this year, the other won none. Sanchez won more games overall this year as well...in fact, they've won the same number of NFL games since 2007, including playoffs. If that's the production you care about, then stay consistent. To argue that Brady is more winning than Sanchez, you would have to either cite the pre-Sanchez past, or go to the stats. But if personal accountability is the disguise for mis-analysis, you would just conclude that Sanchez is a winner and that Brady should focus on trying to improve his plight in the future.

But because you have access to a bunch of information that suggests that I'm completely out of my mind to suggest Sanchez>Brady, you would just reject the argument of personal accountability on Brady's part. Which is exactly what I'm doing with McNabb-Campbell.[/quote]

So you are using statistics to argue that Sanchez is better than Tom Brady... How is that hurting my argument?

If an aging middle of the pack QB is worth 11 wins, sign me up.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

I'm siding with Pocket$ on this one. Stats aside, McNabb has done more with similar talent and, in some cases, less talent than Jason Campbell has over the course of their respective careers. There's no disputing that.

The naysayers can point to McNabb's age and his inability to win the Super Bowl as reasons why the Skins shouldn't do it. As far as McNabb's age goes, top tier quarterbacks are playing well into their thirties nowadays and being very productive while they're at it. In terms of does this make the Skins a Super Bowl contender, well probably not. But we know for sure they aren't under Campbell either. My biggest issue with Campbell is that his stats are deceiving. Good enough to keep him around, but not bad enough to flat out dump him.

If --and it's a big f*cken if-- the front office pulls the trigger on this deal, there's likely a two to three year window and after that they cut their losses. But for what's on it's worth, I'm on the record saying that JC is outta here come by draft day if not before.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;681883]So you are using statistics to argue that Sanchez is better than Tom Brady... How is that hurting my argument?
[B]
If an aging middle of the pack QB is worth 11 wins, sign me up[/B].[/quote]You're not declaring your Eagles fandom here...right? ;)

I'm specifically avoiding statistics that would suggest Brady might be better than Sanchez, much like you're avoiding the statistics that suggest that McNabb and Campbell are of similar (but not equal) value.

Suggesting that they are in the same tier is not necessarily asking one to accept them as equivalents, contrary to where I might have been leading people with my wordiness. It [I]is[/I] specifically designed to reject the idea that one guy might have some winning quality that can't possibly be explained by having an excellent, unfailingly competent defense or a receiver or two that isn't allergic to the end zone.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=12thMan;681884]I'm siding with Pocket$ on this one. Stats aside, McNabb has done more with similar talent and, in some cases, less talent than Jason Campbell has over the course of their respective careers. There's no disputing that.

The naysayers can point to McNabb's age and his inability to win the Super Bowl as reasons why the Skins shouldn't do it. As far as McNabb's age goes, top tier quarterbacks are playing well into their thirties nowadays and being very productive while they're at it. In terms of does this make the Skins a Super Bowl contender, well probably not. But we know for sure they aren't under Campbell either. My biggest issue with Campbell is that his stats are deceiving. Good enough to keep him around, but not bad enough to flat out dump him.

If --and it's a big f*cken if-- the front office pulls the trigger on this deal, there's likely a two to three year window and after that they cut their losses. But for what's on it's worth, I'm on the record saying that JC is outta here come by draft day if not before.[/quote]

Let me go on the record and speculate that this deal will never happen. I also will freely and gladly admit that when Shanahan sneezes, the tissue has more football knowlege than I do.

Here is what matters. Shanahan has been studying our team with a fine tooth comb and it is pretty apparent that he wants nothing to do with JC long term. At the end of the day when the JC argument comes up, isn't that all you need to know?

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

In the rawest of win shares analysis, the quarterback gets 100% credit for every play he is involved in. McNabb throws a screen pass to Westbrook that goes for 65 yds and a TD = McNabb throws 65 yd TD bomb. Campbell throws football off of Fred Davis' facemask and is intercepted by Sheldon Brown = Campbell throws interception.

By this definition, league MVP [URL="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB"]Peyton Manning was worth +7.44 wins[/URL]. That literally means that the Colts win percentage increased by 744% due to all the plays that involved Peyton Manning last year.

McNabb was worth +1.67 wins. Campbell just +0.39. There's a difference (his name is DeSean Jackson), but, even in the rawest sense of winning and losing, they were in the same tier in 2009.

[URL="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?year=2008&pos=QB&season=all"]In 2008[/URL], Campbell was worth +1.24 wins and McNabb was worth +0.47. Again, same tier. One isn't decisively more winning than the other.

Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Drew Brees are in a different stratosphere in terms of producing wins and losses. McNabb is just a guy, clearly.

[URL="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=5-D.McNabb&pos=QB&season=all"]Advanced NFL Stats -- McNabb, Career[/URL]

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

Exactly. I keep thinking we should just draft O-line and Campbell will continue to improve, but then I think about the fact that Shanahan does not like Campbell and change my mind. Basically O-line would help us improve our record the most and the fastest, but I don't think we'll be having a top five pick again for a long long time (hopefully). That's why a franchise QB continues to tempt me and the front office.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

For every Desean Jackson bomb there was a missed wide open receiver. Put the blame where you want because it fell into both JC either missing seeing the receiver, putting the ball somewhere it couldn't be caught, or JC going into panic mode because he was about to become roadkill... or another category, the ball was pretty scripted to go to a particular receiver.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=12thMan;681884]I'm siding with Pocket$ on this one. Stats aside, McNabb has done more with similar talent and, in some cases, less talent than Jason Campbell has over the course of their respective careers. There's no disputing that.

The naysayers can point to McNabb's age and his inability to win the Super Bowl as reasons why the Skins shouldn't do it. As far as McNabb's age goes, top tier quarterbacks are playing well into their thirties nowadays and being very productive while they're at it. In terms of does this make the Skins a Super Bowl contender, well probably not. But we know for sure they aren't under Campbell either. My biggest issue with Campbell is that his stats are deceiving. Good enough to keep him around, but not bad enough to flat out dump him.

If --and it's a big f*cken if-- the front office pulls the trigger on this deal, there's likely a two to three year window and after that they cut their losses. But for what's on it's worth, I'm on the record saying that JC is outta here come by draft day if not before.[/quote]Well, the three years that McNabb has been above average as a passer, has he not had a pro bowl receiver in each year? Terrell Owens, then Donte Stallworth, then DeSean Jackson. Well, I looked it up and Stallworth didn't make it to pro bowl in 2006. But who has Campbell thrown to that's gone to a pro bowl? Just Cooley (the Westbrook equivalent in our offense), and he's going to help you move the chains, and he'll score from inside the red zone, but he can't generate the big plays that make McNabb look good like those guys.

I'd agree with you that McNabb's had a perfectly successful career outside of those years, however, it's been decisively middle tier. In 2008, he broke form and won two playoff games, ultimately helping Brent Celek emerge as an above average NFL TE, and I'm not a playoff-loss-detractor by any means because losing in the playoffs would mean being in the playoffs. And I freely admit Campbell's resume would look better with some playoff losses on in.

This isn't a resume comparison though. It's a stupid trade rumor that's going to blow over in a few days, but it's stupid because collecting mid-tier quarterbacks does not improve a crappy offense, ergo, collecting Donovan McNabb equivalents does not improve the Redskins offense, no matter how much more he deserves from Philly fans who stupidly booed him on draft day and never really gave it a rest.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

I would give the Eagles a 7th rd pick for McNabb and see If I could get a 3rd pick for Jason. If I could get a 3rd pick for JC than I would pick Bradford if he was there with the 4th pick. If Bradford is gone than try to trade down and get another pick ( 2nd or 3rd) take Clausen with the 1st rd pick. 2nd pick or picks draft OL, 3rd pick LB and rest of draft best players available. McNabb has only 1 year left on his contract so if we take him its for just 1 season unless we think he can play a few more years until our rookie QB is ready. I say just keep JC and see how he plays this season unless you can get a 2nd or 3rd pick for JC.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;681890]Well, the three years that McNabb has been above average as a passer, has he not had a pro bowl receiver in each year? Terrell Owens, then Donte Stallworth, then DeSean Jackson. Well, I looked it up and Stallworth didn't make it to pro bowl in 2006. But who has Campbell thrown to that's gone to a pro bowl? Just Cooley (the Westbrook equivalent in our offense), and he's going to help you move the chains, and he'll score from inside the red zone, but he can't generate the big plays that make McNabb look good like those guys.

I'd agree with you that McNabb's had a perfectly successful career outside of those years, however, it's been decisively middle tier. In 2008, he broke form and won two playoff games, ultimately helping Brent Celek emerge as an above average NFL TE, and I'm not a playoff-loss-detractor by any means because losing in the playoffs would mean being in the playoffs. And I freely admit Campbell's resume would look better with some playoff losses on in.

This isn't a resume comparison though. It's a stupid trade rumor that's going to blow over in a few days, but it's stupid because collecting mid-tier quarterbacks does not improve a crappy offense, ergo, collecting Donovan McNabb equivalents does not improve the Redskins offense, no matter how much more he deserves from Philly fans who stupidly booed him on draft day and never really gave it a rest.[/quote]

The fact that it's a rumor at all and that we're now working on the sixth page of this thread says a lot if you ask me. There's just not a lot of confidence in Jason Campbell at Redskins Park.

In terms of the T.O., Stallworth, et. al. comparison, well, Jason Campbell has played more games with Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, and Santana Moss than McNabb has with all of the above. Both T.O. and Stallworth have only played one full season as Eagles, and DeSean Jackson just completed his second. So while they are Pro Bowl material, the fact still remains that McNabb was constantly adjusting to the talent around him, played with an oft injured Westbrook, and a make-shift offensive line, yet still produced multiple playoff appearances.

But I think we're losing sight of the core argument here which, in my opinion, isn't a statistical one, as you've noted. I have no idea what the possible motives are behind floating something like this, but if this is a serious rumor the Redskins are looking at making a playoff run by bringing McNabb to D.C. There's no other way to look at it. And thus far, with as many excuses we can provide, Jason Campbell has yet to make a playoff appearance.

At the end of the day Jason Campbell doesn't provide a compelling reason, statistically or otherwise, as to why the Redskins should not get rid of him in favor of a quarterback (Donovan McNabb) who's arguably in the final phase of his career.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao0YnQZ4lX50I4ljIoEGHGRDubYF?slug=tsn-ifskinscantgetbradfo]If 'Skins Can't Get Bradford, They'd Like McNabb - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url] Looks like the same old / same old between now and the draft.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

All this talk of McNabb and T.O. possibly becoming Redskins makes me :vomit:.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=53Fan;681897]All this talk of McNabb and T.O. possibly becoming Redskins makes me :vomit:.[/quote]
No kidding , lets say no to iggles and cowturds ever wearing the B&G !!!

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

I would LOVE McNabb on this team. He could easily play another 4-5 seasons and still be pretty damn good. You've got to be high to not like this potential move. Doubt it will happen, but I would gladly give up a 2nd rounder for him.

Okung with #4, McNabb for our 2nd rounder = no brainer.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=12thMan;681884]I'm siding with Pocket$ on this one. Stats aside, McNabb has done more with similar talent and, in some cases, less talent than Jason Campbell has over the course of their respective careers. There's no disputing that.

The naysayers can point to McNabb's age and his inability to win the Super Bowl as reasons why the Skins shouldn't do it. As far as McNabb's age goes, top tier quarterbacks are playing well into their thirties nowadays and being very productive while they're at it. In terms of does this make the Skins a Super Bowl contender, well probably not. But we know for sure they aren't under Campbell either. My biggest issue with Campbell is that his stats are deceiving. Good enough to keep him around, but not bad enough to flat out dump him.

If --and it's a big f*cken if-- the front office pulls the trigger on this deal, there's likely a two to three year window and after that they cut their losses. But for what's on it's worth, I'm on the record saying that JC is outta here come by draft day if not before.[/quote]

I could not agree more.

Also as far as some guys comparing JC and Mcnabbs % stats. You have to look at the type of pass plays and the rythm. JC holds the ball to long, he make SHORT little dump passes, while Mcnabb drops back and lets it fly. Usually past the marker. He is able to get into a fast rythm and stay ahead of the defense. JC is very predictable in his play IMO.

I would much rather have a QB whose stats reflect plays that actually include 1st downs than a QB who make a bunch of short go nowhere passes that only look OK on % stats.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Mattyk;681900]I would LOVE McNabb on this team. He could easily play another 4-5 seasons and still be pretty damn good. You've got to be high to not like this potential move. Doubt it will happen, but I would gladly give up a 2nd rounder for him.

Okung with #4, [B]McNabb for our 2nd rounder = no brainer[/B].[/quote]

I'll take that to mean you'd have to not have a brain to make that deal. We're not the Vikings where all you need is a QB better than Jackson or Rosenfels to be a Super Bowl team. A 33 year old QB who has had a pretty good defense his entire career and a HC who makes the o-line a priority and a pretty good back in Westbrook [B]should[/B] have had a pretty good career. Hell, they even made A.J. Feeley look good enough to get a big contract. He can keep throwing the ball in the dirt in Philly. No thank you.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Mattyk;681900]I would LOVE McNabb on this team. He could easily play another 4-5 seasons and still be pretty damn good. You've got to be high to not like this potential move. Doubt it will happen, but I would gladly give up a 2nd rounder for him.

Okung with #4, McNabb for our 2nd rounder = no brainer.[/quote]
I don't get high so ..... I must like the move . Whoever leads this team , I just hope they lead us to many wins , and a V. Lombardi Trophy or two .

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=53Fan;681906]I'll take that to mean you'd have to not have a brain to make that deal. [B]We're not the Vikings where all you need is a QB better than Jackson or Rosenfels to be a Super Bowl team[/B]. A 33 year old QB who has had a pretty good defense his entire career and a HC who makes the o-line a priority and a pretty good back in Westbrook should have had a pretty good career. Hell, they even made A.J. Feeley look good enough to get a big contract. He can keep throwing the ball in the dirt in Philly. No thank you.[/quote]

No but having a QB like Mcnabb can make us that team. I believe the Viks were inspired by Farve and stepped up their game because he gave them the ability to see themselves as contenders.

I believe having Mcnabb would inspire our entire team to play at the next level, if for no other reason than purely because they know Mcnabb has been there. He's a proven leader. And playing in NFC East they have seen him often enough to know he's a winner.

I don't care what kind of team we put together. Under JC we will go nowhere!

The Skins don't believe in him. neither do I.

BTW good to see you 53 :)

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;681863]Here is the bottom line, Philly under McNabb has dominated the NFC East. It isn't even close. JC has accomplished nothing, and I mean NOTHING. He hasn't won any meaningful regular season games. He has won no divisions. He hasn't been to the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game. He has been to zero NFC Championship games and from a statistical perspective JC is way below the mean from a winning percentage as a starting QB. Do we need to bring up Pro-Bowls?[/quote]

Actually, the pro-bowls are the only thing that count to me. You go to a pro-bowl and about 85% of the reason is ALL YOU. If you got to the playoffs or get to /win the big one, that's a team effort thing.

A lot of people make the mistake of lumping win and lost columns into the QB's stats. Wake up guys. Tom Brady has never won a superbowl. The kicker that won each of those games has more rings than he does you know. Vinatieri made the 45 yarder to tie, and a 25 yarder to win brady's first ring. Final play in the win against the rams? Another 48 yarder from Adam. The man has 20 last minute field goal wins that too many people give Tom Brady the credit for. Stop giving QB's all the credit!

As for Donovan having done more with less, he has never HAD less!?! Seriously, Until you have a comparably bad o-line, a bad coach, a revolving door of crappy kickers, and an 80 year old veteran with less experience than you as a back-up, then you are in a better situation. McNabb is in an offense BUILT around his abilities, has always had a good to awesome o-line, and has usualy had as good or better receivers.

Also, please stop saying that jason hasn't had the big win or big this or that because Jason's play has not been the steady factor in our losses. Once again, against the Saints he completed 30 of 42 for 367 yards. The man avoided getting sacked the whole game and had a passer rating of 111.9 but his 3 touchdown passes meant NOTHING because Sellers fumbled the ball in overtime! Without Portis, our running game was, once again crap. He had to carry the team on his own, getting beaten up and thrown to the ground after every other throw. The big win was snatched away from his magical QB rating column thanks to Sellers. Yes, i can go to the interception that was fumbled and other things that happened, but i'm talking about our last posession in overtime.

I will get over it if McNabb takes the reigns, but i would rather give JC what it takes to win and watch the man go.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;681873]You guys are funny. The whole thing might just be to see what they want for McNabb so they can expect what to get from trading JC. [B]Sort of an intelligence gathering operation for further use[/B]. McNabb is not the best in the league by far, and is indeed just above average like JC, and he had a much better WR corp than JC to work with. I would worry more about JC being future trade bait in the not too distant future. Look for a possible deal come draft time.[/quote]

Exactly

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Lotus;681777]SmootSmack has repeatedly said that we should expect some personnel head-scratchers from MS. If this is anything more than a passing check for value, this would be a head-scratcher to me. Nothing against McNabb but the Eagles might not do this cheap and we are in prime position to land a young QB, so wtf?[/quote]

I'm thinking more in terms of a draft weekend head scratcher like trading our trading our 2nd and 4th picks to move up into the bottom of the 1st to make sure we get Colt McCoy. That kind of thing.

As far as I know, there's no serious interest in getting McNabb. And if I was McNabb, I'd actually be pretty pissed if the Eagles traded me to the Redskins. Yeah Donovan, we appreciate all you've done for us, we want to put you someplace you're happy, we totally respect you...but not so much that we mind playing you twice a year.

Re: Mcnabb to Washington?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);681910]Actually, the pro-bowls are the only thing that count to me. You go to a pro-bowl and about 85% of the reason is ALL YOU. If you got to the playoffs or get to /win the big one, that's a team effort thing.

A lot of people make the mistake of lumping win and lost columns into the QB's stats. Wake up guys. Tom Brady has never won a superbowl. The kicker that won each of those games has more rings than he does you know. Vinatieri made the 45 yarder to tie, and a 25 yarder to win brady's first ring. Final play in the win against the rams? Another 48 yarder from Adam. The man has 20 last minute field goal wins that too many people give Tom Brady the credit for. Stop giving QB's all the credit!

As for Donovan having done more with less, he has never HAD less!?! Seriously, Until you have a comparably bad o-line, a bad coach, a revolving door of crappy kickers, and an 80 year old veteran with less experience than you as a back-up, then you are in a better situation. McNabb is in an offense BUILT around his abilities, has always had a good to awesome o-line, and has usualy had as good or better receivers.

Also, please stop saying that jason hasn't had the big win or big this or that because Jason's play has not been the steady factor in our losses. Once again, against the Saints he completed 30 of 42 for 367 yards. [B][I]The man avoided getting sacked the whole game[/I][/B] and had a passer rating of 111.9 but his 3 touchdown passes meant NOTHING because Sellers fumbled the ball in overtime! Without Portis, our running game was, once again crap. He had to carry the team on his own, getting beaten up and thrown to the ground after every other throw. The big win was snatched away from his magical QB rating column thanks to Sellers. Yes, i can go to the interception that was fumbled and other things that happened, but i'm talking about our last posession in overtime.

I will get over it if McNabb takes the reigns, but i would rather give JC what it takes to win and watch the man go.[/quote]

I guess this had nothing to do with our "sorry ass" O line protecting him? Can't give JC all the credit if you don't give him all the fault.

Yes JC and the Skins had a VERY NICE GAME. BUT Saints had a VERY BAD GAME. or are we actually able to beat a SB team? If that is the case then a better QB would definatly make the diff.

Im not a Mcnabb fan at all. But, I'm not against him coming here.

We have given JC what he needs to win. But, he just cant win.

Can you imagine if Barry Sanders played on the sorry Lions? He would have never emerged as one of and IMO the best back ever. Oh wait he did play with the sorry Lions.

Im not comparing QB to Backs but in there respective positions talent stands out despite the team you have around you. Put JC on the Saints and they don't make the playoffs.