Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;686113]I love me some Trent Williams, but I will just present the following evidence without comment:

[B]The main reason we landed Brian Orakpo at no. 13 in the draft last year is because a bunch of teams thought exactly like this: scheme over talent.[/B][/quote]

I thought it was because of injury concerns?

Edit: Injury concerns and an apparent lack of a motor:

Durability -4 - Sprained right knee during 2007 opener (Arkansas State) was an early setback. He missed the next four games as a result but did finish the season strong, including two sacks vs. ASU in Holiday Bowl. 2008: Misses Baylor game and plays sparingly versus Kansas due to left knee sprain. Also suffered hamstring strain at the Combine but recovered fully in time for late-March Pro Day workout.

Intangibles - 3 - No off-the-field issues. Works hard off-the-field, particularly in the weight room. Is a confident player [B]but would like to see his motor run more consistently.[/B]

Trait Scale
1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;686114]I thought it was because of injury concerns?

Edit: Injury concerns and an apparent lack of a motor:

Durability -4 - Sprained right knee during 2007 opener (Arkansas State) was an early setback. He missed the next four games as a result but did finish the season strong, including two sacks vs. ASU in Holiday Bowl. 2008: Misses Baylor game and plays sparingly versus Kansas due to left knee sprain. Also suffered hamstring strain at the Combine but recovered fully in time for late-March Pro Day workout.

Intangibles - 3 - No off-the-field issues. Works hard off-the-field, particularly in the weight room. Is a confident player [B]but would like to see his motor run more consistently.[/B]

Trait Scale
1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal[/quote]Inconsistent motor is a scouting designation used to degrade a prospect that doesn't necessarily have anything obviously wrong.

Durability issues tend to be a lot more concrete. With that said, I wasn't under the impression that Orkapo was a huge injury risk. A lot of pundits thought he would be a fish out of water in the 3-4, ironically.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;686115]Inconsistent motor is a scouting designation used to degrade a prospect that doesn't necessarily have anything obviously wrong.

Durability issues tend to be a lot more concrete. With that said, I wasn't under the impression that Orkapo was a huge injury risk. [B]A lot of pundits thought he would be a fish out of water in the 3-4, ironically[/B].[/quote]

Yeah, but then we saw him hold his own as a 4-3 OLB which is much harder for someone with Orakpo's skill set.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;686116]Yeah, but then we saw him hold his own as a 4-3 OLB which is much harder for someone with Orakpo's skill set.[/quote]Hence, the irony.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

Back to OT's real quick. Even though he's my second favorite prospect one of the knocks on Bryan Bulaga has been his 33 1/4 inch long arms (36 inches is ideal). Here's some game footage of Bulaga to give you an idea of what he's going to have to deal with at the next level.
[YT]3LVXjB_VUfk[/YT]

By the way I totally stole this off a Chiefs forum while I was looking for the Chief fans views on OKUNGGGGGG!!!!!!!11 So with that said all credit goes to SNR from Chiefs Planet.
[url=http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=226143]The short answer is, Bryan Bulaga can do the job - ChiefsPlanet[/url]

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

Very good summation of Okung vs Williams.
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=At5YNcQ8RgQkHXjr9IB1yMpDubYF?slug=ys-okungvswilliams040910]Tale of the tape: Okung vs. Williams - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;686355]Very good summation of Okung vs Williams.
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=At5YNcQ8RgQkHXjr9IB1yMpDubYF?slug=ys-okungvswilliams040910]Tale of the tape: Okung vs. Williams - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

Wow Williams 4.81 /40 @315 nice

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;686355]Very good summation of Okung vs Williams.
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=At5YNcQ8RgQkHXjr9IB1yMpDubYF?slug=ys-okungvswilliams040910]Tale of the tape: Okung vs. Williams - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

Good stuff.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

i hope we get okung but as long as we get somebody on our line i'll take it.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;686355]Very good summation of Okung vs Williams.
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=At5YNcQ8RgQkHXjr9IB1yMpDubYF?slug=ys-okungvswilliams040910]Tale of the tape: Okung vs. Williams - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

It's interesting that he's comparing Williams to Bushrod since Bushrod is a guy we've reportedly been actively in discussions about

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

I watched "film" on both Okung and Williams and personally I liked both. The thing that intrigued me about Williams was how quick he was able to move. He recognizes stunts and is actually very strong when he gets locked on. The thing is he still pales in comparison to Okung. Okung simply makes pass blocking look way to easy and all to frequently I saw him throw defenders like rag dolls. Williams freqently protected the QB but seemed to have to put fourth a bit more effort to get the job done.

Okung on the other hand rarely put his QB in a position to worry, it was amazing how much more time Robinson had to throw then Jones/Bradford. If we want more picks then I think it would be best to trade existing players. Trading down from the fourth with our QB situation handled isn't worth the risk with a guy like Okung available to us.

However in a universe run by Madden having Okung at LT and Williams at RT would be unbelieveable. I also believe that Williams could easily become the best Guard in the game if he ever moved there.

[YT]kd2dzpYGoA4[/YT]

[YT]-icEPTOeKhk[/YT]

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

thanks for posting those

I see what that guy meant about Okung looking like he's playing on tile when he hits the second level, but otherwise he looks pretty solid.. could have a better push on the runs and could deal with the 2nd move better when he doesn't lock the guy up, could def be a good addition here.. will check out Williams in a bit

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

The risk is too high with Williams. He's got the potential to be a major bust. Maybe Okung won't be any better than he is now but you know what you're getting, and that's a guy who can anchor the line for 10 plus years

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;686400]It's interesting that he's comparing Williams to Bushrod since Bushrod is a guy we've reportedly been actively in discussions about[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

with shannys knack for turning out gems of lineman, I think williams could be a brilliant pickup, and if it nets us a second, and possibly a starter, then I think it could be the right decision.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

this is all great stuff, thanks for all of the links, videos etc. well written articles and discussion all the way around. my gut tells me go with the more sure thing with Okung.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

How about we pass on both and trade Haynesworth for Bushrod?

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=Mechanix544;686972]with shannys knack for turning out gems of lineman, I think williams could be a brilliant pickup, and if it nets us a second, and possibly a starter, then I think it could be the right decision.[/quote]
hopefully Foerster is as good as Gibbs and Dennison

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;687066]How about we pass on both and trade Haynesworth for Bushrod?[/quote]
If we did that why would we have to pass on one of them?

Bushrod at LT, trade down in 1st.. pick up OL and DE or NT

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=tryfuhl;687273]If we did that why would we have to pass on one of them?

Bushrod at LT, trade down in 1st.. pick up OL and DE or NT[/quote]

If we keep loading up on offensive players in the draft and by trading away our defensive players we're going to find Mike Shanahan with the same problems that got him fired in Denver.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

Yeah it seems like they're the only ones that've come up in trade talks. Then again who would want anyone from our offense?

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

What are the chances that both Detroit and the Bucs snap up the best two O-tackles right before us?

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=Beemnseven;687364]What are the chances that both Detroit and the Bucs snap up the best two O-tackles right before us?[/quote]

I would say slim, that would mean that they would have both passed on Suh. I dont see that as very likely. I guess it's certainly possible.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

^^ as far as I've seen, Tampa is definitely taking one of the two top DT's, so for a OT to go at # 3 would mean that someone traded up to get in front of us.
I still say Detroit will take a DT, and when they got Simms, that strengthened my impression because Backus is a solid OT, who they would have moved to Guard. Now they would push him to a backup position. However, a lot of mocks have them taking Okung.
All that assumes that St. Louis takes Bradford.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

If we traded Haynesworth and Carter to the Lions to obtain the second pick do we take Suh & Okung? or still try to trade down with the 4th pick? I like any option that would land us Eric Berry, I gotta a feeling that kid is going to be special.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;687369]If we traded Haynesworth and Carter to the Lions to obtain the second pick do we take Suh & Okung? or still try to trade down with the 4th pick? I like any option that would land us Eric Berry, I gotta a feeling that kid is going to be special.[/quote]

Nobody in their right mind would trade out of the 2nd overall pick in exchange for 9-year guy who's injury-prone with a questionable work ethic and 10-year player who's had an up-and-down career.

This isn't Candyland.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;687369]If we traded Haynesworth and Carter to the Lions to obtain the second pick do we take Suh & Okung? or still try to trade down with the 4th pick? I like any option that would land us Eric Berry, I gotta a feeling that kid is going to be special.[/quote]

If I'm Detroit, I don't make that trade. They just signed Vanden Bosch as a DE, they have a few others as well. I don't give up the 2nd overall for basically just Haynesworth, and I don't know that we could add anymore unless we swapped firsts, or added next year's first, both of which are not appealing options. We seem to be comfortable getting either Okung or Williams, so unless a slam dunk trade offer is made to us I believe we will use our 4th pick on OT. It's pretty hard to imagine a scenario where we trade, up or down, and use the acquired pick for Berry.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=$xxyRxxy;686463]The risk is too high with Williams. He's got the potential to be a major bust. Maybe Okung won't be any better than he is now but you know what you're getting, and that's a guy who can anchor the line for 10 plus years[/quote]


Welcome new guy! Drinks are on you for the entire next year! Rules are rules!
Is this your first venture into the Warpath, Rex?

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/landing_redskins/?blockID=214934&feedID=2993]The Other OTs: Trent Williams & Bryan Bulaga[/url]

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=Beemnseven;687372]Nobody in their right mind would trade out of the 2nd overall pick in exchange for 9-year guy who's injury-prone with a questionable work ethic and 10-year player who's had an up-and-down career.

This isn't Candyland.[/quote]

You are overvalueing the draft. Recieving a top 5 defensive lineman in the NFL in Haynesworth and a probowl caliber end in Carter for the second pick isn't unreasonable. Name the last number 2 pick to make it to the probowl in his first year in the NFL... It sure wasn't Jason Smith, Chris Long, Calvin Johnson, Reggie Bush or Ronnie Brown.

Lets not also mention the price tag of the number two pick. It may be kinda steep for the cheap and lowly lions, who have paid this price two of the last five years and it has gotten them nowhere. That deal to me would seem to end up being a steal for the lions. If we traded AH to them and NOT recoup any of his money that we already paid him the lions save a shit load of cash. Stop being so nieve. You are not garunteed to get a player of AH's proven Caliber with the number 2 pick. thats point blank period bro

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

If Okung is gone to Detroit, then I think we are in a fix. In my opinion, Bulaga and Williams are not worthy of the #4 pick due to their skill-sets. I believe Charles Brown and Rodger Saffold are as good, or will be as good. If the team cannot trade out of 4, then we should select either Suh or McCoy, whoever is there. I think Haynesworth will be gone, and getting either DT will help alleviate his loss. Get the LT with a traded pick in the early 2nd round.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

Its quiet simple:

-If Okung IS there at 4, and Bradford isn't, we take him, end of story
-If Okung IS NOT there at 4, we trade down, get more picks and draft a LT with that first pick
-OR draft whatever position player we desire, such as Eric Berry, Rolando McClain, Jimmy Clausen, Dan Williams, CJ Spiller, to name a few.

HOWEVER,
- IF Okung IS/IS NOT there at 4 but Sam Bradford somehow is, then we have to take Bradford and make him our QB of the future.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;687460]Its quiet simple:

-If Okung IS there at 4, and Bradford isn't, we take him, end of story
-If Okung IS NOT there at 4, we trade down, get more picks and draft a LT with that first pick
-OR draft whatever position player we desire, such as Eric Berry, Rolando McClain, Jimmy Clausen, Dan Williams, CJ Spiller, to name a few.

HOWEVER,
- IF Okung IS/IS NOT there at 4 but Sam Bradford somehow is, then we have to take Bradford and make him our QB of the future.[/quote]

If Bradford is there at #4, we'd be in position to acquire a lot of picks, including getting back a 2nd rounder. Otherwise, you'd have spent a first and second rounder, and next year's third or fourth rounder on one position. Not a smart move in my book.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;687448][B]You are overvalueing the draft.[/B] Recieving a top 5 defensive lineman in the NFL in Haynesworth and a probowl caliber end in Carter for the second pick isn't unreasonable. Name the last number 2 pick to make it to the probowl in his first year in the NFL... It sure wasn't Jason Smith, Chris Long, Calvin Johnson, Reggie Bush or Ronnie Brown.

Lets not also mention the price tag of the number two pick. It may be kinda steep for the cheap and lowly lions, who have paid this price two of the last five years and it has gotten them nowhere. That deal to me would seem to end up being a steal for the lions. If we traded AH to them and NOT recoup any of his money that we already paid him the lions save a shit load of cash. Stop being so nieve. You are not garunteed to get a player of AH's proven Caliber with the number 2 pick. thats point blank period bro[/quote]

First, I have to ask, Are you Vinny? Overvalue the draft? Really. Can you cite any recent historical example(since the draft went to 7 rounds) of trading a 9 year veteran, or 2 if you really want to claim AC(remember they just got VandenBosch) would even factor in to their decision, for a top 3 draft pick?

I understand your point about the Lions and top pick money, but again, trading down from the #2 spot just doesn't happen very often, again because of the money. Rookie salary cap anyone?

And finally, MS has had one top 10 pick his whole time as head coach. He is not prone to flights of fancy like we fans are. He works with what he has, and yes he did trade up 3 spaces for Cutler, but if you look at what he gave up, it was a 3rd round pick that he had gotten from another team. And it was from 14 to 11, that is exponentially less expensive then acquiring the #2 overall.

Really there are 3 or 4 players whose value would match the #4 overall pick, Suh, McCoy, Okung, Bradford, and on a short stretch Williams (if we don't take him KC will at 5 so he's right around there). One of them will be there when we pick, so we will either take one OR trade down if we can finagle a deal with another team.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

^ this trade was suggested on 106.7 the fan last week as a rumored deal that the redskins are exploring. That is why I brought it up. O' yeah below is a link. Don't underestimate what this team can do, because you will always be suprised

[url=http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/detroit-lions-interest-in-albert-haynesworth-could-hinge-on-21-million-bonus-349014.html]Comments on Detroit Lions' interest in Albert Hayneswort - 04-08-2010[/url]

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;687563]^ this trade was suggested on 106.7 the fan last week as a rumored deal that the redskins are exploring. That is why I brought it up. O' yeah below is a link. Don't underestimate what this team can do, because you will always be suprised

[url=http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/detroit-lions-interest-in-albert-haynesworth-could-hinge-on-21-million-bonus-349014.html]Comments on Detroit Lions' interest in Albert Hayneswort - 04-08-2010[/url][/quote]

Maybe I missed it but where does it say anything about trading AC and Al for the #2?

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

^ I admittedly threw in AC to make the trade more plausible in my eyes but the initial conversation is there.

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

Suh at #2 and Okung at #4

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;687590]^ I admittedly threw in AC to make the trade more plausible in my eyes but the initial conversation is there.[/quote]

Here is the full text:
[quote]ALLEN PARK - If it seems too good to be true, it's because it is.

The Washington Redskins are interested in trading defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth and the Detroit Lions are interested in acquiring a big playmaking defensive tackle. Haynesworth has not only played in the head coach Jim Schwartz's defensive system before, he's played for Schwartz himself.

Also, Haynesworth's contract -- $16 million over the next three years - would fit into the Lions' budget. He'd come at more than a 50 percent bargain over Ndamudong Suh (if the Lions were to draft him with the second overall pick).

There's just one minor little catch. Well, if you consider $21 million to be minor.

That's the amount of money the Redskins paid Haynesworth last week as part of a bonus that was connected to the $100 million free agent contract he signed last year. If the Redskins are willing to simply eat the $21 million and dump Haynesworth, [B]the path is cleared for a trade to Detroit - or elsewhere.[/B]

[B]A league source, however, said the Redskins want that money back, or at least a big chunk of it.[/B] Right now, the Redskins have paid Haynesworth a total of $32 million of the $41 million in guaranteed money. That's a lot of cash for just one year - even by the standards of Washington owner Daniel Snyder.

There are only two ways the Redskins can get their hands on that money. One, Haynesworth can give it back - which is possible, but doesn't appear very likely. Two, the team that trades for Haynesworth can pay a portion of that bonus back to Washington - a more likely scenario. The problem is the ''portion.'' (To circumvent accounting rules, Haynesworth would have to give some of his money back to Washington and then get paid by his new team.)

[B]The Lions didn't have any interest in Haynesworth [/B]in free agency because they knew he'd be far too expensive. At some point, that scenario will repeat itself if the "portion'' is too large.

[B]The other issue is that Haynesworth made it clear he wasn't interested in going to Detroit as a free agent[/B]. Would he more open to joining the Lions now? General manager Martin Mayhew isn't going to pony up millions of dollars upfront for a player who doesn't want to be here and won't take part in off-season workouts - as Haynesworth is doing (or not doing) now in Washington.[/quote]

This whole article is a typical NFL off-season hot air piece. There is not one point which makes a substantial hint that this trade ever was or would be discussed. Was it? I don't know, but this article can't even be added as a rumor, because nowhere in it does it even imply that Washington and Detroit have had basic talks. The closest line is Washington has Al, and Detroit wants someone like Al. It then goes on and says Al didn't want to be there, Detroit didn't want him there, and maybe still doesn't want him there, and Washington doesn't want to let him go unless they get their money back. Where is even a hint that this would happen?

Re: Mayock Thinks Redskins Could Pass on Okung...
 

Another Trent to Skins mock:

[url=http://profootball.scout.com/2/961982.html]Scout.com: Scout.com: Steuber's Two-Round Mock Draft[/url]