Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Giantone;702724]Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?[/quote]

He paid for treatment, he flew the doctor in along with the assistant to receive a treatment for an injury. The treatment included HGH therapy in addition to PRP therapy and administration of a drug called activegan, whether or not he was aware of the fact that HGH was part of the regiment he was receiving remains to be seen, but some of the reports that have come out have said this Dr also had mislabeled drugs in his possession so he could have been trying to mislead patients.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Giantone;702724]Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?[/quote]
HGH isn't the only thing that treatment physicians do

that's like asking why does a Saudi Prince come to America for appendicitis

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=redskins121684;702726]He paid for treatment, he flew the doctor in along with the assistant to receive a treatment for an injury. The treatment included HGH therapy in addition to PRP therapy and administration of a drug called activegan, whether or not he was aware of the fact that HGH was part of the regiment he was receiving remains to be seen, but some of the reports that have come out have said this Dr also had mislabeled drugs in his possession so he could have been trying to mislead patients.[/quote]
there are plenty of these types of docs that do their own personal research.. some of it documented/legal.. some of it not so much

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=redskins121684;702726]He paid for treatment, he flew the doctor in along with the assistant to receive a treatment for an injury. The treatment included HGH therapy in addition to PRP therapy and administration of a drug called activegan, whether or not he was aware of the fact that HGH was part of the regiment he was receiving remains to be seen, but some of the reports that have come out have said this [B]Dr also had mislabeled drugs in his possession so he could have been trying to mislead patients.[/B][/quote]

Doubt it. More like the Doctor mislabeled drugs in order to mislead immigration authorities when he was clearing customs; so he would not get busted for transporting it into the USA.
I find it a stretch to think Moss was mislead. For a guy that gets paid [B][U][I]millions[/I][/U][/B] to play football and the rules are very clear.
It is sole the responsibility of each player to not allow unknown or unlabeled drugs into their systems. That is a really LAME excuse. If that is his excuse he deserves to be suspended and labeled an idiot.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

HGH isn't a big deal. You can get L Arginine at any health or vitamin store and it basically gets your body to release HGH naturally. I mean do you really think these guys get to be over 6'5" and over 300 lbs naturally?

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Giantone;702724]Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?[/quote]

Why order a case of beer from Germany? Because it's better.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Moss - 3 TD, 900 yds

Well, Moss kinda sucked over the last year. Cushing won the Rookie Defensive Player of the Year. If Moss used steroids and still had an off year, his game has really deteriorated.

He also didn't beef up as much as Cushing. Of course he still could've done steroids.. But just wanted to compare..

[IMG]http://www.everyjoe.com/emqb/files/2008/10/santana-moss-washington-redskins-live-united.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.thedirty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cstrh23e8ggb.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Anthony Mix's Arizona Rattlers playing AFL football on NFLN right now. Game being commented by Iowa Barnstormer's legend Kurt Warner.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;702736]HGH isn't a big deal. You can get L Arginine at any health or vitamin store and it basically gets your body to release HGH naturally. I mean do you really think these guys get to be over 6'5" and over 300 lbs naturally?[/quote]
trust me.. if l-arginine and other precursors did what some of the sports supplement companies claim as far as producing hgh goes they'd be illegal due to the FDA by now

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

glad I was in this thread at the time so that I didn't miss that

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;702736]HGH isn't a big deal. You can get L Arginine at any health or vitamin store and it basically gets your body to release HGH naturally.[B] I mean do you really think these guys get to be over 6'5" and over 300 lbs naturally?[/quote][/B]

[B]yes a lot of them do.[/B]

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=ethat001;702743]Moss - 3 TD, 900 yds

Well, Moss kinda sucked over the last year. Cushing won the Rookie Defensive Player of the Year. If Moss used steroids and still had an off year, his game has really deteriorated.

He also didn't beef up as much as Cushing. Of course he still could've done steroids.. But just wanted to compare..
[/quote]


[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HGH_treatment_for_athletic_enhancement]HGH treatment for athletic enhancement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

JGI before speculating from ignorance.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702751][/B]

[B]yes a lot of them do.[/B][/quote]

It's true they do, college scouts look long and hard for the physical freaks, and when many NFL players use HGH their growth from a height standpoint is done, at least it was for Santana cuz he's still short.

When HGH is perscribed for rejuvination purposes for people a lot of times they lean out, weight gain is not always a result of the drug the whole idea of using it is similar to an injectable fountain of youth, returning to a youthful form, something every single NFL player probably wants to do.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

This is football who gives a shit who takes steroids anyway?

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=horse;702815]This is football who gives a shit who takes steroids anyway?[/quote]


Apparently the answer to that question is 'Roger Goodell'

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=jgalecpa;702832]Apparently the answer to that question is 'Roger Goodell'[/quote]

Based on how the league office has acted thus far I think Goodell cares a lot about steroid use and has more or less come to the realization that HGH has a place in the NFL whether he supports it or not. The league has said they want to see how this thing plays out before they act at all, that's out of character based on how the league has handled situations previously they are almost always proactive. I also think that the lack of an HGH test suggests the league isn't ready, at this point, to push HGH out of football.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[U]I care[/U] about steroids..

If we don't care about steroids, then:
1) We don't care about the law - they are illegal.
2) The game would be just as fake as wrestling.
3) We'd be cheering for cheaters.
4) We'd be encouraging thousands of youth to start using steroids & destroy their bodies.
5) All the records would be fake.
6) etc. etc.

Here's a reminder about steroid side effects.. And ask yourself if your son (or daughter) starts using steroids because all his favorite players do -- whether you still don't care about it...


[QUOTE]
[url=http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20050316/why-steroids-are-bad-for-you]Why Steroids Are Bad for You[/url]

Men who take anabolic steroids may:

Develop breasts
Get painful erections
Have their testicles shrink
Have decreased sperm count
Become infertile
Become impotent
Become bald
Have tendon rupture
Have heart attacks
Have an enlarged heart
Develop significant risk of liver disease and liver cancer
Have high levels of "bad" cholesterol
Have mood swings
Fly into rages
Suffer delusions
Have short height due to arrested bone growth

Since steroids are often taken by injections, there is also the risk of getting HIV or hepatitis infection from an unsterile needle or syringe.
[/QUOTE]

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Lol that's a bit over-dramatic

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

by TRDean on Feb 25, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Injuries

HGH has shown to cause diabetes early, but the big issue is that it can stimulate bone growth. [B][I][U]You can usually tell someone is on HGH if their teeth get further apart[/U][/I][/B]. It’s because their jaw bone is growing. The problem is when your long bones grow. Your epiphyseal plate seals once you hit puberty and they stop growing. Use HGH and you’re in for joint swelling and pain.

My issue with allowing drugs like this, be it steroids, HGH, or other, is that you are putting an athlete’s future health on the line. You’ll have one group that doesn’t care getting an advantage and another that wants to be healthy at retirement age.

by ActionOxford on Feb 26, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions


Looks like Michael Strahan was the biggest abuser of the shit ever, hehehe.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

The local injection of it used for specific injury treatment isn't really going to be a big enough dose to cause those type of issues. If you can spur growth and repair of tissue it beats having a procedure where they take cells, fibers, or tendons from other areas of your body.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=ethat001;702838][U]I care[/U] about steroids..

If we don't care about steroids, then:
1) We don't care about the law - they are illegal.
2) The game would be just as fake as wrestling.
3) We'd be cheering for cheaters.
4) We'd be encouraging thousands of youth to start using steroids & destroy their bodies.
5) All the records would be fake.
6) etc. etc.

Here's a reminder about steroid side effects.. And ask yourself if your son (or daughter) starts using steroids because all his favorite players do -- whether you still don't care about it...[/quote]

Nice post.To put in a way others might understand ....they kill .

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=tryfuhl;702839]Lol that's a bit over-dramatic[/quote]

no,not really.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=tryfuhl;702846]The local injection of it used for specific injury treatment isn't really going to be a big enough dose to cause those type of issues. If you can spur growth and repair of tissue it beats having a procedure where they take cells, fibers, or tendons from other areas of your body.[/quote]

Yes , you are right,to a point.You forgot to mention that this is with a Dr's perscription and care .Most of these guys aren't taking it for the reasons you mention,they are banned for good reason.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Defensewins;702702]I understand your point and it is a legitimate point. But as Ben Roethlisburger is finding out the hard way (LOL!) you do not have to be convicted or have proof positive. It is the illegal or behavior that can get you in trouble. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but there currently is no test for certain substances that are on the banned list. So....[/quote]
2 totally different situations and circumstances.

Goodell cannot suspend anyone for violating the leagues substance abuse policy without physical evidence.

However, if he feels that this incident gives the NFL a "black-eye", then Goodell would have to find a way to classify this incident as a violation of the leagues "personal conduct policy".

That is what Big Ben was suspended for. And lest we forget, Ben did it twice in consecutive years BEFORE he was suspended.

Big difference between substance abuse and personal conduct policy.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Still confusing HGH and Roids I see...

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Buster;702953]Still confusing HGH and Roids I see...[/quote]

...both are banned ,correct ?

Re:
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;702533]Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
[/quote]

He gets a pass until there more proof.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Giantone;702853]no,not really.[/quote]

oh because you said so? your background on the subject being?

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Giantone;702855]Yes , you are right,to a point.You forgot to mention that this is with a Dr's perscription and care .Most of these guys aren't taking it for the reasons you mention,they are banned for good reason.[/quote]we're talking about this incident and loosely the treatment that Galea provided, where have you been?

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Buster;702953]Still confusing HGH and Roids I see...[/quote]

People go right to thinking Barry Bonds when they hear PHDs and it's just not even close to the case.

The Romo article defending this doctor are pretty good.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Whiskeybilt;703041][B]People go right to thinking Barry Bonds when they hear PHDs [/B]and it's just not even close to the case.

The Romo article defending this doctor are pretty good.[/quote]

Dr. Bonds I presume :)

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=tryfuhl;703038]oh because you said so? your background on the subject being?[/quote]

Same as yours.

see#61 and 62

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

some of the stuff I hear is really disturbing. The guy took an illegal substance. Bottom line...thats it. No defense is necessary. He will and should be suspended, i dont care how many good memories he gave you. Which frankly, aren't too many for a supposed #1, but that is for another day. How anyone can try and justify it is crazy. He knew what was going on, he chose to take the risk of getting caught. Now that he was caught, for whatever the reason may have been, he just needs to come out and say "hey, this is what was going on, I made a mistake blah blah blah... this denial crap all these idiots are doing is just getting tiresome. They take all of us for fools if they actually think what they are saying is believable.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Yikes, sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I'm far from an expert but I'm not going to pretend to be either. The HGH issue isn't quite as clearcut as the steroid issue and it's something the league is going to have to address.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Mattyk;703086]Yikes, sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I'm far from an expert but I'm not going to pretend to be either. The HGH issue isn't quite as clearcut as the steroid issue and it's something the league is going to have to address.[/quote]

HGH occurs naturally in our bodies, but we stop producing it at a certain age.

Roids are genetically engineered chemicals, designed to effect performance.

I see a huge difference and don't personally have a problem with a doctor like this finding ways to heel athletes. Not just to get them back on the field and play, but to be able to walk and get out of bed when they hit 50.

Giving a player HGH in small doses, in a controlled fashion, is not much difference than the hormones we put into our meat, that has every American bigger and faster and quicker to mature, than most other countries, IMO.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;702697]Looking back at all sports, not just football, you'll see that on most occasions, these "illegal performance enhancing" substances were used to expedite healing from an injury. But none-the-less, it is still an illegal drug obtained illegally. No matter what the intended use.

But I cannot endorse any suspension by the league without evidence.

Has Moss failed any league mandated drug tests? Do they have any evidence they he actually received these treatments?

Players who ARE suspended for performance enhancing drugs, like Brian Cushing and Shawne Merriman, were all implicated by POSITIVE drug testing and by league testing rules and procedures already in place.

As far as I know, all they have on Moss is an afadavit. In other words, this guy said he did, but other than that, there is no physical eveidence this ever took place.

So until the league endorses using "word of mouth" as fool proof eveidence of illegal activity, LEAVE MOSS ALONE AND LET THE MAN PLAY FOOTBALL![/quote]

Until all the evidence is made clear, Moss will remain guilty by speculation since it appears to carry far more weight than guilt by association.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Whiskeybilt;703093]HGH occurs naturally in our bodies, but we stop producing it at a certain age.

Roids are genetically engineered chemicals, designed to effect performance.

I see a huge difference and don't personally have a problem with a doctor like this finding ways to heel athletes. Not just to get them back on the field and play, but to be able to walk and get out of bed when they hit 50.

Giving a player HGH in small doses, in a controlled fashion, is not much difference than the hormones we put into our meat, that has every American bigger and faster and quicker to mature, than most other countries, IMO.[/quote]Genetic engineering involves going into an organism's gene and changing the DNA sequence. Some steroids are produced synthetically WITHOUT any biological agent producing them. They are probably made in a lab using a more fundamental way: put compounds in an aqueous solution and let them undergo a chemical reaction.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Giantone;703059]Same as yours.

see#61 and 62[/quote]
How do you know mine? I've already read those posts you dolt. They don't state anything educative or informative.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Whiskeybilt;703093]HGH occurs naturally in our bodies, but we stop producing it at a certain age.

Roids are genetically engineered chemicals, designed to effect performance.

I see a huge difference and don't personally have a problem with a doctor like this finding ways to heel athletes. Not just to get them back on the field and play, but to be able to walk and get out of bed when they hit 50.

Giving a player HGH in small doses, in a controlled fashion, is not much difference than the hormones we put into our meat, that has every American bigger and faster and quicker to mature, than most other countries, IMO.[/quote]
Our body also naturally produces testosterone and derivatives.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

OP's argument is pretty absurd. If the whole problem with substances like HGH, the whole reason that they are illegal is that they unfairly enhance on field performance, how can we then give someone a pass just for performing admirably on the field? By that logic Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are eligible for passes too, as they certainly gave us plenty of wow moments, even though the use of illegal substances is presumably what allowed them to perform at such high levels for so long.

I'm not saying Santana is necessarily guilty of cheating, I really have no idea; but to argue that he should be exempted from criticism just for having played well is bunkum.