Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

The take our country back motto, at least if it's true to my feelings which it may or may not be, is directed at both parties. The republicans betrayed many of their party in the late 90's and early 2000's when instead of limiting gov't they simply diverted it's resources to the rich. And the democrats have long given up on the meaning of limited government. If it were simply a 2008-9 thing, or Lord Obama thing, then they would just go back into the folds of the republicans. Taking the country back means taking it back from an ever growing, and relentless march of big government drums. Of course that won't, can't happen, so it's just a place to vent at this point.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

CRR i hear you. and a lot of what you say is true. but not everyone that is poor chooses to be. there are many circumstances that arise that keep people from reaching their potential. and that is one of the biggest differences in the parties. the GOP thinks that people are poor by choice. the Dem's look at the poor as just needing that little extra help

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

Beck and Palin, oh man what a pair. It's frightening there are people out there that take these two seriously.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

and the tea party movement is a joke. if they wanted credibility, they would have started around 2006, when W and the boys were spending like madman. their timing leaves a lot to be desired. all of a sudden Obama takes office, and they want their country back. give me a break

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=GMScud;724615]I heard over 300K expected to attend.

I thought this was pretty cool about MLK's niece:

[URL="http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0826/Glenn-Beck-8-28-rally-It-s-a-matter-of-honor"]Glenn Beck 8/28 rally: It's a matter of honor - CSMonitor.com[/URL][/quote]

I wasn't aware our honor was lost and in need of restoring but whatever.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

CR I'm with you but I agree with dmek as well. I NEVER ever heard of the Tea Party until Obama won. Then all of a sudden it's let's take our country back and lets do like we did the British and dump Tea to show our strength. As a black man I saw it as that's our office, now get him out of here. That's just how I felt. The problem I have with them is that if it isn't the fact that Obama is President they use it to their advantage which is cool, but it just paints a certain picture for me. That's all. I understand that they are mad a government itself but like dmek said, if it's government itself then where were all the truckloads of Lipton Tea Bags then ?

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

I am not involved with the tea party, I just give my feelings or thoughts. That said, I think a lot of the timing is fairly coincidental. The republican party showed itself to be a useless tool, and at the same time the democratic party started pushing their grandiose government. Thus the tea party sprouted up by people who no longer believed that the republicans wanted a limited govt and didn't trust the dems promises of salvation by govt. At the same time, those who want change, but not "revolutionary" change, leaned to vote for Obama, as his slogan said, a change you can believe in. In the end, there is a lot of discontent, but it's assuaged by economics, and if the economy gets healthy the energy behind change will die out. But, like a fire, if the embers burn long enough, and the economy stays dry, a flame may burst forth.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=saden1;724636]I wasn't aware our honor was lost and in need of restoring but whatever.[/quote]

Exactly. Since when did America's honor needed to be restored? By Glenn Beck no less.

For those interested, Eugene Robinson has a pretty good Op-Ed in today's Washinton Post. Sums it up pretty well.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;724656]Exactly. Since when did America's honor needed to be restored? By Glenn Beck no less.

For those interested, Eugene Robinson has a pretty good Op-Ed in today's Washinton Post. Sums it up pretty well.[/quote]

Pretty much did. I remembered Beck calling Obama a racist but forgot about the deep seeded hatred for White people part. Beck goes pretty hard. I hope they have a good time.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;724640]I am not involved with the tea party, I just give my feelings or thoughts. That said, I think a lot of the timing is fairly coincidental. The republican party showed itself to be a useless tool, and at the same time the democratic party started pushing their grandiose government. Thus the tea party sprouted up by people who no longer believed that the republicans wanted a limited govt and didn't trust the dems promises of salvation by govt. At the same time, those who want change, but not "revolutionary" change, leaned to vote for Obama, as his slogan said, a change you can believe in. In the end, there is a lot of discontent, but it's assuaged by economics, and if the economy gets healthy the energy behind change will die out. But, like a fire, if the embers burn long enough, and the economy stays dry, a flame may burst forth.[/quote]

I didn't mean to imply that you were if I came off that way. I just commented on what you and dmek were saying is all. You make some very good points though.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;724656]Exactly. Since when did America's honor needed to be restored? By Glenn Beck no less.

For those interested, Eugene Robinson has a pretty good Op-Ed in today's Washinton Post. Sums it up pretty well.[/quote]

Very nice [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605519.html"]piece by Eugene[/URL]...I did not know that "[t]he full name of the event at which King spoke 47 years ago was the 'March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.'"

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=saden1;724664]Very nice [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605519.html"]piece by Eugene[/URL]...I did not know that "[t]he full name of the event at which King spoke 47 years ago was the 'March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.'"[/quote]
Well that guy has clearly never watched Glenn Beck's show or listened to his radio show.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=steveo395;724929]Well that guy has clearly never watched Glenn Beck's show or listened to his radio show.[/quote]

Uhh that guy is Pulitzer Prize winning journalist.

The integrity of his work is hard to ignore.

Glenn Beck on the other hand......is a "salesman of fear."

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=steveo395;724929]Well that guy has clearly never watched Glenn Beck's show or listened to his radio show.[/quote]


Oh give me a f'ing break...we have all see that televangelist-huckster rodeo clown cry on TV and make ridiculous correlations and causations. The sad part is there are retarded people out there that take him seriously and buy his shit.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

Really, Gene Robinson has never listened to Glenn Beck? Give me a break.

I wonder if that clown will bring his chalk board to educate his flock.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=FRPLG;723784]They are not even remotely close to neocons. You are completely wrong on this.[/quote]


Well what are they then? They aren't Ron Paul/ Bob Taft conservatives/libertarians. And if you want to get technical I think the whole article is rubbish as the Koch bros had nothing to really do with the Tea Parties in the beginning. You have a major split within the movement, the Ron Paulians and the Palinites, who are neocon morons. If the Koch bros are indeed major players in funding the present movement I would think they are neocons, as that wing is by far the strongest now.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=saden1;724583]You play the lazy card well, it's only fair he be able to play his card.[/quote]

I have called people here lazy?

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=Mattyk;724629]Beck and Palin, oh man what a pair. It's frightening there are people out there that take these two seriously.[/quote]

Its funny that people out there actually thought Obama could bring about change. Unless change means gone on vacation now days.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;725045]Well what are they then? They aren't Ron Paul/ Bob Taft conservatives/libertarians. And if you want to get technical I think the whole article is rubbish as the Koch bros had nothing to really do with the Tea Parties in the beginning. You have a major split within the movement, the Ron Paulians and the Palinites, who are neocon morons. If the Koch bros are indeed major players in funding the present movement I would think they are neocons, as that wing is by far the strongest now.[/quote]

Neocons are cool with a welfare state. The Koch's believe just the opposite. They are pretty dyed-in-the-wool libertarians. They want to eliminate the welfare state.

Don't confuse monetary support with political belief. That's a big problem in our two-party system. There's tons of monetary support for things people don't believe in. Everyone is trying to pick the lesser of two evils.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=firstdown;725511]I have called people here lazy?[/quote]

I wasn't aware he called you racist.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;724640]I am not involved with the tea party, I just give my feelings or thoughts. That said, I think a lot of the timing is fairly coincidental. The republican party showed itself to be a useless tool, and at the same time the democratic party started pushing their grandiose government. [B]Thus the tea party sprouted up by people who no longer believed that the republicans wanted a limited govt [/B]and didn't trust the dems promises of salvation by govt. At the same time, those who want change, but not "revolutionary" change, leaned to vote for Obama, as his slogan said, a change you can believe in. In the end, there is a lot of discontent, but it's assuaged by economics, and if the economy gets healthy the energy behind change will die out. But, like a fire, if the embers burn long enough, and the economy stays dry, a flame may burst forth.[/QUOTE]

This. Republicans don't want small government.

They who cry for war at every instance are the antithesis of small government.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

I'm loving the cannibalism going on within the Republican party.

I'm sure by now you've seen the news about the Tea Party candidate, Christine O'Donnell, beating out the favored Republican candidate in Deleware, who was a sure bet to help them win Joe Biden's old seat.
This race, along with a few others, dashed any hopes the GOP had of winning back the Senate.

I think this is good news for President Obama and Dems leading up to 2012.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;733713]I'm loving the cannibalism going on within the Republican party.

I'm sure by now you've seen the news about the Tea Party candidate, Christine O'Donnell, beating out the favored Republican candidate in Deleware, who was a sure bet to help them win Joe Biden's old seat.
This race, along with a few others, dashed any hopes the GOP had of winning back the Senate.

I think this is good news for President Obama and Dems leading up to 2012.[/quote]

Yea you guys keep saying that but you keep forgetting the tea party is also winning over the dems. If you think this will help the dems it might but we will have to see because if you look at the polls people are ticked at just about everyone in DC and that goes bad for who is in charge at the time.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;733713]I'm loving the cannibalism going on within the Republican party.

I'm sure by now you've seen the news about the Tea Party candidate, Christine O'Donnell, beating out the favored Republican candidate in Deleware, who was a sure bet to help them win Joe Biden's old seat.
This race, along with a few others, dashed any hopes the GOP had of winning back the Senate.

[B]I think this is good news for President Obama and Dems leading up to 2012[/B].[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think its good news for Americans too. The more bona fide choices the better. Competition/alternatives/choices/ideas/ect - the more the better[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=mlmpetert;733783][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think its good news for Americans too. The more bona fide choices the better. Competition/alternativses/choices/ideas/ect - the more the better[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

That largely depends on the choices, ideas, ect.

One thing is sure the Tea Party is dragging the GOP further to the right, and while the anger towards government and Washington is legit, Republicans and the Tea Party have yet to provide any solutions.

I got two words for you in 2012: Sara Palin.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;733713]I'm loving the cannibalism going on within the Republican party.

I'm sure by now you've seen the news about the Tea Party candidate, Christine O'Donnell, beating out the favored Republican candidate in Deleware, who was a sure bet to help them win Joe Biden's old seat.
This race, along with a few others, dashed any hopes the GOP had of winning back the Senate.

I think this is good news for President Obama and Dems leading up to 2012.[/quote]

Amazing... historically speaking a party with divisions always loses...ALL WAYS! Thank God for the Tea Party.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;733825]That largely depends on the choices, ideas, ect.

One thing is sure the Tea Party is dragging the GOP further to the right, and while the anger towards government and Washington is legit, Republicans and the Tea Party have yet to provide any solutions.

[B]I got two words for you in 2012: Sara Palin[/B].[/quote]

I have no doubt that if she partakes she will win...and Lord Obama will have another four years to run the show. I'm crossing my fingers.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=saden1;733859]I have no doubt that if she partakes she will win...and Lord Obama will have another four years to run the show. I'm crossing my fingers.[/quote]

I don't see how she doesn't run for POTUS in 2012. If she ignores the polls, as she should, she can rally the conservative base like no other Republican and cruise to a nomination.

It's funny, here we are almost two years following the last presidential election and we have no idea about any of Sarah Palin's policy prescriptions for the country. That's scary.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

I don't get the appeal of Palin. Not at all.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;733863]I don't see how she doesn't run for POTUS in 2012. If she ignores the polls, as she should, she can rally the conservative base like no other Republican and cruise to a nomination.

It's funny, here we are almost two years following the last presidential election and we have no idea about any of Sarah Palin's policy prescriptions for the country. That's scary.[/quote]

If she's a sure bet loser I don't know why anyone would bet on her but then again I don't have clue as to the inner workings of a Republican mind. Someone else could step up and trounce her...you never know, it did happen to Hillary and it could happen to Palin.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;733863]I don't see how she doesn't run for POTUS in 2012. If she ignores the polls, as she should, she can rally the conservative base like no other Republican and cruise to a nomination.

It's funny, here we are almost two years following the last presidential election and we have no idea about any of Sarah Palin's policy prescriptions for the country. That's scary.[/quote]

Its sad we are two years into Obama's Pres. and everything he has done has pretty much failed and still blaming Bush. Now he wants a new stimulus to stimulate the trillion he already stimulated. Sorry but I just don'r see Palin winning the GOP and I'm not sure she will even run.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=FRPLG;733871]I don't get the appeal of Palin. Not at all.[/quote]

As an intelligent, rational, and sane person, you shouldn't understand her appeal.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=FRPLG;733871]I don't get the appeal of Palin. Not at all.[/quote]

You wouldnt hit that?:pimp:

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=firstdown;734228]Its sad we are two years into Obama's Pres. and everything he has done has much failed and still blaming Bush. Now he wants a new stimulus to stimulate the trillion he already stimulated. Sorry but I just don'r see Palin winning the GOP and I'm not sure she will even run.[/quote]

You are so very wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Define failure?

Find me one economist that didn't think the stimulus worked. Not a journo or politico, but an economist. Fine me just one. Unemployment would be in the mid-teens without it, easily. The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit.

[B][I]President Obama has created more jobs in his first two years than George W. Bush did during both of his terms. Did you know that?[/I][/B] The stimulus has created somewhere north of 3 million jobs. Is that a failure by your definition?

Nearly all the banks have repayed the bailout money profit to the U.S. taxpayer. Is that a failure?[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/business/economy/31taxpayer.html[/URL]

The auto industry is showing signs of growth and being profitable for the first time in years. Is that a failure?

See you and GMScud, for that matter, throw out these blanket statements; "Obama's a failure" or "Everything he's tried has failed". WTF? That's not telling me anything. And what the hell is everything??

He did what he said he was going to in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is the economy where we want it to be - of course not. But surely you, of all people, don't believe that government can solve all problems.

As far as Palin, well, that's just my opinion of course. I think she'll run.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;734243]Find me one economist that didn't think the stimulus worked. Not a journo or politico, but an economist. Fine me just one. Unemployment would be in the mid-teens without it, easily.[/quote]
Just thought I'd help FD out a bit here.

Arnold Kling, Marc De Vos,
[URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/08/12/obamas_state_capitalism_a_failure_of_modesty_106713.html"]RealClearPolitics - Obama's State Capitalism: A Failure of Modesty[/URL]

Allan Meltzer - professor of economics at Carnegie Mellon
[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704629804575325233508651458.html"]Allan Meltzer: Why Obamanomics Has Failed - WSJ.com[/URL]

Peter Morici, a business professor at the University of Maryland and former chief economist at the U.S. International Trade Commission, said Mr. Obama's proposed small-business lending fund is "a drop in the bucket" compared with what is needed. With the estate tax scheduled to be reimposed at the end of this year, he said, small businesses will suffer even more.
"I can't imagine a president with a more anti-small-business agenda than Barack Obama," Mr. Morici said. "What you saw in the Rose Garden was the cynical enterprise of a cynical man. He simply doesn't believe in the private sector, and it shows in his actions." ([I]Stephen Dinan and Kara Rowland, "'Stimulus' or not, Obama seeks new spending,'" [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/13/obama-seeks-new-spending-stimulus-or-not/"][COLOR=#810081]Washington Times[/COLOR][/URL], 6/13/2010[/I])

University of Chicago’s Eugene Fama and Columbia University’s Charles Calomiris
[URL="http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/18/obvious-failure-of-stimulus-be?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FHitandRun+%28Reason+Online+-+Hit+%26+Run+Blog%29"]Obvious Failure of Stimulus Becomes Obvious Even To Economists - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine[/URL]

Jeffrey Sachs
[URL="http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com/2010/06/keynesian-economist-jeffrey-sachs-says.html"]Keynesian Economist, Jeffrey Sachs Says President Obama's Stimulus has Failed | The Hinterland Gazette[/URL]

[B][I][quote]President Obama has created more jobs in his first two years than George W. Bush did during both of his terms. Did you know that?[/quote][/I][/B]Really? A little bit of fuzzy math I'd say. Here's the real story.

[URL="http://keithhennessey.com/2010/06/08/compare-employment/"]The new Democratic claim about job creation*|*KeithHennessey.com[/URL]

[quote] The stimulus has created somewhere north of 3 million jobs. Is that a failure by your definition?[/quote]
Also, from the below Heritage article:
When the President first began selling his stimulus plan to the American people in November 2008, [URL="http://www.buffalonews.com/nationalworld/national/story/503247.html"][COLOR=#0000ff]he promised it would create 2.5 million jobs[/COLOR][/URL]. But as employment fell at the end of 2008, President-elect Obama [URL="ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28590554"][COLOR=#0000ff]increased his employment promise[/COLOR][/URL] by one million to 3.5 millions jobs created. At the time, employment stood at about 134.3 million. Using these two data points, one can objectively establish the Obama jobs target for December 2010 at 137.8 million. Fast forward to July 2010 and [URL="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf"][COLOR=#810081]the latest jobs report[/COLOR][/URL] shows total U.S. employment at almost 130.5 million. This means President Obama’s stimulus has failed to meet its own standard for success by 7.4 million jobs.

[quote]Nearly all the banks have repayed the bailout money profit to the U.S. taxpayer. Is that a failure?[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/business/economy/31taxpayer.html[/URL][/quote]Both Bush and Obama had a hand in TARP so this one isn't all on Obama. But, Huff Post thinks there are several failures of TARP.

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/18/top-official-citing-tarp_n_580844.html"]Top Official, Citing TARP, Doubts Obama's Small Business Lending Plan[/URL]

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/14/small-banks-still-struggl_n_645598.html"]Small Banks STILL Struggling Despite Wall Street Bailout[/URL]

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/12/tarp-global-impact_n_679634.html"]TARP Global Impact: U.S. Bailout Helped Overseas Banks[/URL]

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/14/payday-lenders-banks_n_716246.html"]Bailed-Out Banks Finance 'Legalized Loan Shark' Payday Lenders, Says New Report[/URL]

Here's some more links:

[URL="http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/08/23/fifth-tarp-bank-fails-likely-wiping-out-taxpayer-stake/"]Fifth TARP Bank Fails, Likely Wiping Out Taxpayer Stake - Washington Wire - WSJ[/URL]

I haven't fact checked this one, but there's some interesting points here.

[URL="http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-TARP-Was-a-Taxpayer-Failure-But-a-Political-Class-Success&id=4826368"]Why TARP Was a Taxpayer Failure But a Political Class Success[/URL]

[quote]The auto industry is showing signs of growth and being profitable for the first time in years. Is that a failure?[/quote]The GM & Chrysler bailout suceeded in saving GM and thousands of jobs, but it's certainly not a model that should be used going forward.

[quote]He did what he said he was going to in both Iraq and Afghanistan.[/quote]Many on the left don't think so.

[URL="http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/more-us-troops-die-afghanistan-under-obama-under-bush"]More U.S. Troops Killed in Afghanistan Under Obama Than Under Bush | MichaelMoore.com[/URL]


Don't believe all the numbers that come out of the Administration.

[URL="http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/15/morning-bell-why-the-obama-stimulus-failed/"]Morning Bell: Why the Obama Stimulus Failed | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.[/URL]

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;734243]You are so very wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Define failure?

Find me one economist that didn't think the stimulus worked. Not a journo or politico, but an economist. Fine me just one. Unemployment would be in the mid-teens without it, easily. The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit.

[B][I]President Obama has created more jobs in his first two years than George W. Bush did during both of his terms. Did you know that?[/I][/B] The stimulus has created somewhere north of 3 million jobs. Is that a failure by your definition?

Nearly all the banks have repayed the bailout money profit to the U.S. taxpayer. Is that a failure?[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/business/economy/31taxpayer.html[/URL]

The auto industry is showing signs of growth and being profitable for the first time in years. Is that a failure?

See you and GMScud, for that matter, throw out these blanket statements; "Obama's a failure" or "Everything he's tried has failed". WTF? That's not telling me anything. And what the hell is everything??

He did what he said he was going to in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is the economy where we want it to be - of course not. [B]But surely you, of all people, don't believe that government can solve all problems. [/B]

As far as Palin, well, that's just my opinion of course. I think she'll run.[/quote]



Here Obama's own people said it failed and they advised him on the stimulas.
[url=http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1910208,00.html]Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan: Failing by Its Own Measure - TIME[/url]


Here ABC:
[url=http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/02/president-obama-every-economist-from-the-left-and-right-says-stimulus-has-saved-or-created-at-least-.html]President Obama: “Every Economist from the Left and Right� Says Stimulus Has Saved or Created At Least Two Million Jobs - Political Punch[/url]

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=12thMan;734243]You are so very wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Define failure?

Find me one economist that didn't think the stimulus worked. Not a journo or politico, but an economist. Fine me just one. Unemployment would be in the mid-teens without it, easily. [B]The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit. [/B]

[B][I]President Obama has created more jobs in his first two years than George W. Bush did during both of his terms. Did you know that?[/I][/B] The stimulus has created somewhere north of 3 million jobs. Is that a failure by your definition?

Nearly all the banks have repayed the bailout money profit to the U.S. taxpayer. Is that a failure?[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/business/economy/31taxpayer.html[/URL]

The auto industry is showing signs of growth and being profitable for the first time in years. Is that a failure?

See you and GMScud, for that matter, throw out these blanket statements; "Obama's a failure" or "Everything he's tried has failed". WTF? That's not telling me anything. And what the hell is everything??

He did what he said he was going to in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is the economy where we want it to be - of course not. But surely you, of all people, don't believe that government can solve all problems.

As far as Palin, well, that's just my opinion of course. I think she'll run.[/quote]
"[B]The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit." [/B]


So now if its money we allready plan to spend it does not add to dept? Try that with your own check book and let me know how that works out. LOL You may want to run for office because thats how they think up there on both sides.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;734267]Just thought I'd help FD out a bit here.

Arnold Kling, Marc De Vos,
[URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/08/12/obamas_state_capitalism_a_failure_of_modesty_106713.html"]RealClearPolitics - Obama's State Capitalism: A Failure of Modesty[/URL]

Allan Meltzer - professor of economics at Carnegie Mellon
[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704629804575325233508651458.html"]Allan Meltzer: Why Obamanomics Has Failed - WSJ.com[/URL]

Peter Morici, a business professor at the University of Maryland and former chief economist at the U.S. International Trade Commission, said Mr. Obama's proposed small-business lending fund is "a drop in the bucket" compared with what is needed. With the estate tax scheduled to be reimposed at the end of this year, he said, small businesses will suffer even more.
"I can't imagine a president with a more anti-small-business agenda than Barack Obama," Mr. Morici said. "What you saw in the Rose Garden was the cynical enterprise of a cynical man. He simply doesn't believe in the private sector, and it shows in his actions." ([I]Stephen Dinan and Kara Rowland, "'Stimulus' or not, Obama seeks new spending,'" [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/13/obama-seeks-new-spending-stimulus-or-not/"][COLOR=#810081]Washington Times[/COLOR][/URL], 6/13/2010[/I])

University of Chicago’s Eugene Fama and Columbia University’s Charles Calomiris
[URL="http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/18/obvious-failure-of-stimulus-be?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FHitandRun+%28Reason+Online+-+Hit+%26+Run+Blog%29"]Obvious Failure of Stimulus Becomes Obvious Even To Economists - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine[/URL]

Jeffrey Sachs
[URL="http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com/2010/06/keynesian-economist-jeffrey-sachs-says.html"]Keynesian Economist, Jeffrey Sachs Says President Obama's Stimulus has Failed | The Hinterland Gazette[/URL]

[B][I][/I][/B]Really? A little bit of fuzzy math I'd say. Here's the real story.

[URL="http://keithhennessey.com/2010/06/08/compare-employment/"]The new Democratic claim about job creation*|*KeithHennessey.com[/URL]


Also, from the below Heritage article:
When the President first began selling his stimulus plan to the American people in November 2008, [URL="http://www.buffalonews.com/nationalworld/national/story/503247.html"][COLOR=#0000ff]he promised it would create 2.5 million jobs[/COLOR][/URL]. But as employment fell at the end of 2008, President-elect Obama [URL="ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28590554"][COLOR=#0000ff]increased his employment promise[/COLOR][/URL] by one million to 3.5 millions jobs created. At the time, employment stood at about 134.3 million. Using these two data points, one can objectively establish the Obama jobs target for December 2010 at 137.8 million. Fast forward to July 2010 and [URL="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf"][COLOR=#810081]the latest jobs report[/COLOR][/URL] shows total U.S. employment at almost 130.5 million. This means President Obama’s stimulus has failed to meet its own standard for success by 7.4 million jobs.

Both Bush and Obama had a hand in TARP so this one isn't all on Obama. But, Huff Post thinks there are several failures of TARP.

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/18/top-official-citing-tarp_n_580844.html"]Top Official, Citing TARP, Doubts Obama's Small Business Lending Plan[/URL]

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/14/small-banks-still-struggl_n_645598.html"]Small Banks STILL Struggling Despite Wall Street Bailout[/URL]

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/12/tarp-global-impact_n_679634.html"]TARP Global Impact: U.S. Bailout Helped Overseas Banks[/URL]

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/14/payday-lenders-banks_n_716246.html"]Bailed-Out Banks Finance 'Legalized Loan Shark' Payday Lenders, Says New Report[/URL]

Here's some more links:

[URL="http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/08/23/fifth-tarp-bank-fails-likely-wiping-out-taxpayer-stake/"]Fifth TARP Bank Fails, Likely Wiping Out Taxpayer Stake - Washington Wire - WSJ[/URL]

I haven't fact checked this one, but there's some interesting points here.

[URL="http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-TARP-Was-a-Taxpayer-Failure-But-a-Political-Class-Success&id=4826368"]Why TARP Was a Taxpayer Failure But a Political Class Success[/URL]

The GM & Chrysler bailout suceeded in saving GM and thousands of jobs, but it's certainly not a model that should be used going forward.

Many on the left don't think so.

[URL="http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/more-us-troops-die-afghanistan-under-obama-under-bush"]More U.S. Troops Killed in Afghanistan Under Obama Than Under Bush | MichaelMoore.com[/URL]


Don't believe all the numbers that come out of the Administration.

[URL="http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/15/morning-bell-why-the-obama-stimulus-failed/"]Morning Bell: Why the Obama Stimulus Failed | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.[/URL][/QUOTE]



It's going to be tough to read all of that...can you summarize and name the economists please? Thanks.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

[quote=saden1;734289]It's going to be tough to read all of that...can you summarize and name the economists please? Thanks.[/quote]No worries. 12th asked for one, so I thought I'd give him a few to pick from.

Kling - quick bio
[URL="http://arnoldkling.com/"]Arnold Kling's personal web page[/URL]
Kling argues that the collapse of the housing market and the financial crisis disrupted what had been "a sustainable pattern of specialization and trade" and that we need to let the market economy develop a new one.
Instead, the policies of the Obama Democrats have been aimed at propping up the old order -- holding up housing prices and the mortgage market, keeping the Detroit auto companies in place, maintaining the lush standard of living of public employee union members (the purpose of the $26 billion the House was summoned back to Washington to approve Tuesday).
Maintaining unsustainable patterns of production, Kling writes, prevents the trial-and-error process of private investment that creates new jobs and patterns of production that will be sustainable.

Marc De Vos - quick bio
[URL="http://www.law.ugent.be/social/eng/staff/a_devos/index_mdv.htm"]Marc De Vos index[/URL]
Across the Atlantic, Marc De Vos, director of the Itinera Institute, a Brussels think tank, advances similar arguments in his book "After the Meltdown." The financial crisis, he argues, has brought a revival of "state capitalism," in which governments "have an increased and distorting role in economics."
"The state should be the partner of the market, not the owner or manipulator of the market," he writes. "Governments should not pick economic winners and losers. The state may be back, but the politicians should be modest."

Meltzer's is a good read, from my perspective :)

Eugene Fama - wiki bio
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Fama"]Eugene Fama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
What has Fama learned from the crisis, then? “I learned a lot about government overreactions but not much about recessions,” he tells me. Confronted with a sharp economic downturn, governments face political pressure to act; stimulus spending and other state interventions seem sensible, even when the history of past crises suggests otherwise. Worse, the new public debt and regulations then hobble economic recovery. Rebounding from the post-2007 recession would have been quicker, Fama believes, if the government had mostly let free markets clean up the mess, reestablish true prices, and select the enterprises able to survive.

Sachs - quick bio
[URL="http://www.earth.columbia.edu/articles/view/1804"]Prof. Jeffrey Sachs, Director - The Earth Institute, Columbia University[/URL]
He's a lefty and Keynesian proponent who thinks Obama essentially hasn't gone far enough.
"Little bits of these efforts are strewn through the stimulus legislation, the pending climate legislation and elsewhere. But the administration has not done the hard work to bring these complex initiatives to reality. Intercity rail does not just appear by itself. Direct-voltage transmission lines require a new federal and regional power grid strategy. Nuclear power requires presidential leadership to get moving again. Carbon-capture and storage requires a partnership of science and industry, backed in early stages by public technology funds.
The president has lost the economic initiative, weighed down by a tedious fight between two outmoded ideologies: Keynesianism and supply-side tax cuts, as well as by the president’s excessive deference to Congress.
The president occasionally sings these lyrics but has not yet presented a plan. Move now, Mr President, or we will spend our time digging out of the next consumer bust and buying our technology from China."

If you only read two, read the Meltzer and the Job Creation link from Hennesey. Most of the rest is pretty much just piling on.

Re: Expose on the Tea Party Architects
 

It's all well and good to find economists that think the Obama administration's economic plans have been unsuccesful, but find me an economist that argues that the eight years of Bush economic policies and fiscal irresponsibility that got us into this god awful mess in the first place was a better alternative. Good luck.

Now ask yourself what the current Republican economic strategy is.