Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Rogers and Landry are keepers, but the rest(Dbs) for the most part can be replaced. We need massive upgrades. I guess the NT would be the primary position to draft next season. Damn we have too many holes yet to fill!!!!!! NT, o line, a saftey, a CB, and still a WR.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;736259]Yeah, but I don't think even Ed Reed would have been able to stop Johnson on that play. Johnson is going to pull it in of at least 95% of the time because he has the size and hands.[/quote]


A healthy Ed Reed turns hanging balls into pick 6s.

I still want to know where the effing corner was on that play. It was 3rd and 10 and we release the best WR in football on our safeties? Big time lapse by the coordinator.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;736265]A healthy Ed Reed turns hanging balls into pick 6s.

I still want to know where the effing corner was on that play. It was 3rd and 10 and we release the best WR in football on our safeties? Big time lapse by the coordinator.[/quote]

He can't defy the laws of physics though. Johnson is bigger than him and has super glue hands.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I don't know how we're going to keep the band together next season. Right now we have Rogers, Brown, McNabb, and McIntosh all needing new contracts. I guess that dumping Haynesworth will create a lot of room but still we have to start figuring out how to develop cheap guys at positions of need to build around our stars.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;736235]After today here's what I would do:

Cut Larry Johnson, the game went downhill after he ran backwards and lost 10 yards.

Promote Torain from PS
[B]Cut Roydell Williams[/B]
Promote Austin from PS
Start Kareem Moore next week[/quote]

He did fine today though... I take it you would do that to put Torain or Austin on the field, my problem is that Austin is a decent returner, but the even better returner who made the team, Brandon Banks, hasn't even been active yet.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;736271]He did fine today though... I take it you would do that to put Torain or Austin on the field, my problem is that Austin is a decent returner, but the even better returner who made the team, Brandon Banks, hasn't even been active yet.[/quote]

We need more playmakers, I feel Austin if given the chance would come through. I think Torain is an upgrade to Johnson who is washed up.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;736235]After today here's what I would do:

Cut Larry Johnson, the game went downhill after he ran backwards and lost 10 yards.

Promote Torain from PS
Cut Roydell Williams
Promote Austin from PS
Start Kareem Moore next week[/quote]


No real upgrades there Fred. IF CP can't get the yardage, do you think Torain can? CP was doing well in the preseason games, only to be stymied when the games count. IF Banks is non existent now, do you really think Austin is going to make a difference? Moore is going to start as soon as he is cleared I am sure.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;736274]No real upgrades there Fred. IF CP can't get the yardage, do you think Torain can? CP was doing well in the preseason games, only to be stymied when the games count. IF Banks is non existent now, do you really think Austin is going to make a difference?[/quote]

Yep! We need a youth infusion.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736270]I don't know how we're going to keep the band together next season. Right now we have Rogers, Brown, McNabb, and McIntosh all needing new contracts. I guess that dumping Haynesworth will create a lot of room but still [B]we have to start figuring out how to develop cheap guys at positions of need to build around our stars.[/B][/quote]

Amen -- and the best way to do that is to stock up on as many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks as we can. Trading Haynesworthless might get us an extra pick or two in that range.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

2 games in and we're making up an offseason wish list?

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;736279]Yep! We need a youth infusion.[/quote]
I agree with the youth infusion. That is why I always bitch and moan about giving away our draft picks for these free agents, but in terms of production, we will not be better served putting in Torain or Austin. Our line is not fully developed and obviously isn't very good at run blocking, so putting Torain in there just will get him beat up. Our Wrs did their job today. The secondary was lit up like it was 4th of July!!!!

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;736284]I agree with the youth infusion. That is why I always bitch and moan about giving away our draft picks for these free agents, but in terms of production, we will not be better served putting in Torain or Austin. Our line is not fully developed and obviously isn't very good at run blocking, so putting Torain in there just will get him beat up. Our Wrs did their job today. The secondary was lit up like it was 4th of July!!!![/quote]

468 yards were given up. I think the problem is too much blitzing by corners, leaving them vulnerable and the LB's to short passes and miss matches. I would say the defense coordinator schemes were the problem not adjusting to repetitive plays over and over.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736220]I can't think of any team with 3 stud tackles (we are ridiculously lucky to have Williams and Brown on the same team). Maybe 2 studs and a good backup but no one has had 3 since the Hogs. Heyer is a decent backup at RT. At LT he's a liability. It would be great though if Capers developed next year at either Guard or Tackle. Preferably Guard since that would be his best chance to start.[/quote]I'd be happy with just 1 stud tackle, right now we have a rookie who's still learning and got manhandled/injured when it counted, a starting RT who also gave up a crucial sack, had a crucial false start, and rotates with the backup RT.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I'm telling you guys the running game is fine. Playcalling and situations have taken away from it. We've been able to run well late in games, all we need now is to use it more and bam, we're off and running. Time will prove me right so someone hold me to this like Alex Barron on a game winning drive (Or Stephon Heyer on a 3rd and long coversion, whatever floats your boat).

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Mattyk;736283]2 games in and we're making up an offseason wish list?[/quote]

Guilty as charged. I thought about that too. It's games like this that make you take a long hard look at the weak links.

The sting for this game is wearing off though, and like I said earlier, our secondary just ran into a far superior opponent. We won't be the only ones who look like amateurs against Houston.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Mattyk;736283]2 games in and we're making up an offseason wish list?[/quote]

Some things are blatantly obvious since there are two games and a WHOLE preseason to see what "trends" are likely to be "for the season". Yeah, some things can turn around during a season, but miracles simply DO NOT happen. Last season, we were soft on third downs during the Pitt game, and for the whole season, they were also soft. This year, it's running into the Great Wall of China and having "NT on roller skates" syndrome.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736289][B]I'm telling you guys the running game is fine. [/B] Playcalling and situations have taken away from it. We've been able to run well late in games, all we need now is to use it more and bam, we're off and running. Time will prove me right so someone hold me to this like Alex Barron on a game winning drive (Or Stephon Heyer on a 3rd and long coversion, whatever floats your boat).[/quote]

I agree; I'm not worried about the running game. We took what their defense was giving us, and Kyle went with what was working.

Nothing is more unnerving than watching old-school O-coordinators trying to run the ball -- whether it's working or not -- just for the sake of running the ball.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736289]I'm telling you guys the running game is fine. Playcalling and situations have taken away from it. We've been able to run well late in games, all we need now is to use it more and bam, we're off and running. Time will prove me right so someone hold me to this like Alex Barron on a game winning drive (Or Stephon Heyer on a 3rd and long coversion, whatever floats your boat).[/quote]

We're better running up the gut and inside the tackles. Stretch plays are not working well for us.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Beemnseven;736291]Guilty as charged. I thought about that too. It's games like this that make you take a long hard look at the weak links.

The sting for this game is wearing off though, and like I said earlier, our secondary just ran into a far superior opponent. [B]We won't be the only ones who look like amateurs against Houston.[/B][/quote]

Well put.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;736293]Some things are blatantly obvious since there are two games and a WHOLE preseason to see what "trends" are likely to be "for the season". Yeah, some things can turn around during a season, but miracles simply DO NOT happen. Last season, we were soft on third downs during the Pitt game, and for the whole season, they were also soft. This year, it's running into the Great Wall of China and having "NT on roller skates" syndrome.[/quote]

Yeah and to the same token everyone was convinced our receivers were garbage a week ago. Some things take some time to come together.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

As a general rule I wish we would select a lineman with one of our top two picks every year.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736117]I think that if you want to invest anywhere look for someone special at Guard. Maybe get a slight upgrade at backup over Heyer. However I'm not to concerned with our running game. [B][U]The situations haven't really worked in our favor.[/U][/B] Last week we didn't have a whole lot of possession and this week, passing was way to easy. Once the ground game got going the Texans held on to the ball like their life depended on it.

The only really upgrades I can think of, that are worth pursuing next offseason, are a young talented back and a Trent Williams like Guard. That play though by Larry Johnson was flat out pathetic. I'd like to see more from Keiland Williams. The guy is physically a beast and has little wear and tear on him. The main thing is we don't need to give up draft picks for VJax todays game proved that. Instead we need to invest on defense and maybe on a special Running back prospect.[/quote]Up by 17 in the third quarter is about as favorable of a running situation as there is in the game of football.

You pass to get the lead, which we clearly did today, but running the football efficiently is still critically important to run out the clock. We did a really bad job running out the clock at the end of the game with the opponents on the rope.

That's pretty much the only thing we did bad today.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Beemnseven;736291]Guilty as charged. I thought about that too. It's games like this that make you take a long hard look at the weak links.

The sting for this game is wearing off though, and like I said earlier, our secondary just ran into a far superior opponent. We won't be the only ones who look like amateurs against Houston.[/quote]

Welcome to the NFL the season is string of 16 games where the opponent tries to exploit your weaknesses. We are never...NEVER going to eliminate them all. Right we have some weaknesses but I'd say they aren't as debilitating as seasons past and our schemes give us a chance on a weekly basis. We do need to improve along the OLine..same as probably 27 other teams in the league. We aren't awful there though (minus Williams though is another story). Same with DLine..main problem there is we lack the right type of talent for the 3-4 depth-wise. Where I was truly concerned today was our secondary constantly making mistakes. Not getting outclassed but making mistakes to leave guys open. No one is going to convince that Kevin f*cking Walters has an iota more talent than anyone is our secondary. He killed us because we played poorly in the secondary. We need to get smarter out there. I said it last week. If Doughty is going to be a slow unathletic safety at least be a smart one. Right now he doesn't look smart to me out there. Moore can't start soon enough.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Mattyk;736301]Yeah and to the same token everyone was convinced our receivers were garbage a week ago. Some things take some time to come together.[/quote]

Bad receiver play was not a persistent trend. One, Moss was getting open. Two, Galloway did not play enough to conclude either way. Three, Armstrong was a playmaker. Fourth, it's freaking Dallas. Their D has always make things difficult for our O.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=GTripp0012;736310]Up by 17 in the third quarter is about as favorable of a running situation as there is in the game of football.

You pass to get the lead, which we clearly did today, but running the football efficiently is still critically important to run out the clock. We did a really bad job running out the clock at the end of the game with the opponents on the rope.

[B]That's pretty much the only thing we did bad today.[/B][/quote]

Our secondary looked damn sketchy out there today. I'll attribute some of it to our defense simply taking their foot off the gas in the second half but still we're making mistakes there. I think we have the talent to be good but it isn't quite machine-like back there yet.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;736233]Yeah, but if we had monster line, Schaub would have already been on the ground.[/quote]Some of the most negative plays for our defense happened with Schaub under immense pressure right off the snap. He's great at beating the type of coverages we were playing, but a lot of times, he was only able to extend drives via off balance throws across the field on third down. They couldn't run the ball for crap against our linebackers.

I think the biggest reason they scored as much as they did is they were very lucky on third downs, making really low percentage throws but executing them anyways. The Texans offense LOOKED out of sync all day, but they managed to still move the chains while looking like a pop warner team. Sometimes, that's football.

They made more plays than we did without really winning the line of scrimmage. At least their offense did against our defense.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I agree Tripp, but our secondary is more of a problem than the running game. Like I said in an early post, the rushing totals thus far for the fantasy stud RBs from last season are down. Very, very few 100+ games thus far across the league. Unfortunately, the NFL seems to becoming pass happy.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=FRPLG;736316]Our secondary looked damn sketchy out there today. I'll attribute some of it to our defense simply taking their foot off the gas in the second half but still we're making mistakes there. I think we have the talent to be good but it isn't quite machine-like back there yet.[/quote]Haven't gone to the tape yet (obviously), but my initial feeling is that they caught a LOT of 50-50 balls. In other words, their receivers played great more than our secondary played terrible. A lot of balls where Schaub just "gave them a chance" ended up going for long completions against more than acceptable coverage.

Horton still sucks in coverage, but we already knew that.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Becoming pass happy? The NFL is a passing league, it's been that way a while now.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Yeah, the 497 yards passing we allowed has to make it on the "things we did bad today" list somewhere.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;736265]A healthy Ed Reed turns hanging balls into pick 6s.

I still want to know where the effing corner was on that play. It was 3rd and 10 and we release the best WR in football on our safeties? Big time lapse by the coordinator.[/quote]

It was 4th and 10

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

What I'm saying is: the rushing offense is clearly the achillies heel of our team. You need a strong running game to finish off blowouts. This game should have been a blowout, but we were ahead of them because McNabb was playing other worldly for nearly three quarters.

He played more in line with his career numbers in the fourth and that great running game he didn't have in Philadelphia that Shanahan was going to provide him with to help him extend his career...well, that was a fun myth while it lasted, was it not?

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

plain and simple...if you bring the NOISE to the QB and don't get to him...he's going to pick you apart...unless said QB is Jason Campbell.

on a more hilarious note, did anyone see who got benched today?

I'll give you a hint.

it starts with over and ends in rated!

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Does Larry Johnson do anything well? Why is he on this team again?

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Beemnseven;736326]Yeah, the 497 yards passing we allowed has to make it on the "things we did bad today" list somewhere.[/quote]Where is 44Deezel to talk to us about how Schaub inflated his numbers in garbage time?

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=GTripp0012;736310]Up by 17 in the third quarter is about as favorable of a running situation as there is in the game of football.

You pass to get the lead, which we clearly did today, but running the football efficiently is still critically important to run out the clock. [B]We did a really bad job running out the clock at the end of the game with the opponents on the rope.[/B]

That's pretty much the only thing we did bad today.[/quote]

That's why I found the play call of the ill-fated end around rather annoying. There was no reason to get cute. Portis was starting to get some traction; just run off tackle in that situation.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=GTripp0012;736310]Up by 17 in the third quarter is about as favorable of a running situation as there is in the game of football.

You pass to get the lead, which we clearly did today, but running the football efficiently is still critically important to run out the clock. We did a really bad job running out the clock at the end of the game with the opponents on the rope.

That's pretty much the only thing we did bad today.[/quote]

There were 3 offensive series in the 3rd Quarter. 2 of them belonged to the Texans and they resulted in a field goal and TD respectively. Our 3rd Quarter drive resulted in a Chris Cooley TD pass. Score going into the fourth 27-17.

At the start of the 4th Quarter the Skins tried to run the ball but something funny happened.
1-10-WAS 20 (15:00) 27-L.Johnson left end to WAS 10 for -10 yards (29-G.Quin).

Obviously we had to pass when we're looking at 2nd and 20. Remember the score is 27-17 at this point and we're facing a high powered Texans offense that dominated the third Quarter. If we get a first down we can go back to the run, but on 2nd and 20 we'd be stupid to run it.

Next drive results in a Texans FG, now it's 27-20. It was on our next drive that drive where we actually started running the ball well.

(9:39) 26-C.Portis up the middle to HST 26 for 2 yards (95-S.Cody).
2-8-HOU 26
(8:59) 26-C.Portis left end pushed ob at HST 14 for 12 yards (21-B.McCain).
1-10-HOU 14
(8:28) 26-C.Portis right guard to HST 9 for 5 yards (92-E.Mitchell).
2-5-HOU 9
(7:49) 26-C.Portis left end to HST 5 for 4 yards (31-B.Pollard, 29-G.Quin).
3-1-HOU 5

Here's where everything really started going downhill.

(7:49) PENALTY on WAS-77-J.Brown, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 5 - No Play.

3rd and 6 27-27. Do you want to run it here?
3-6-HOU 10 (6:45) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to 89-S.Moss (26-E.Wilson, 72-J.Nading).

Still hurts to even think about this play
[/B]4-6-HOU 10 (6:40) 4-G.Gano 29 yard field goal is BLOCKED (31-B.Pollard), Center-57-N.Sundberg, Holder-6-J.Bidwell, RECOVERED by HST-95-S.Cody at HST 16. 95-S.Cody to HST 16 for no gain (75-A.Hicks).

So we get the ball back after a failed Texans drive. Now I'll admit, this was pretty dumb
2-5-HOU 46
(4:22) 89-S.Moss left end to WAS 46 for -8 yards (31-B.Pollard). End around

Still it's 3rd and 13 so we have to pass. Incomplete we punt, Houston scores. Now we're tied 27-27. We get the ball back with 2:03 left in the 4th Quarter. Obviously we can't run it now.

Looking back the End around to Moss, the Chanelling Barry Sanders moves, and the Jamaal Brown false start on 3rd and 1 combined with our defenses second half breakdown prevented us from using ground and pound to finish the game. As painful as it is to relive it's by no means a personnel problem.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736359]There were 3 offensive series in the 3rd Quarter. 2 of them belonged to the Texans and they resulted in a field goal and TD respectively. Our 3rd Quarter drive resulted in a Chris Cooley TD pass. Score going into the fourth 27-17.

At the start of the 4th Quarter the Skins tried to run the ball but something funny happened.
1-10-WAS 20 (15:00) 27-L.Johnson left end to WAS 10 for -10 yards (29-G.Quin).

Obviously we had to pass when we're looking at 2nd and 20. Remember the score is 27-17 at this point and we're facing a high powered Texans offense that dominated the third Quarter. If we get a first down we can go back to the run, but on 2nd and 20 we'd be stupid to run it.

Next drive results in a Texans FG, now it's 27-20. It was on our next drive that drive where we actually started running the ball well.

(9:39) 26-C.Portis up the middle to HST 26 for 2 yards (95-S.Cody).
2-8-HOU 26
(8:59) 26-C.Portis left end pushed ob at HST 14 for 12 yards (21-B.McCain).
1-10-HOU 14
(8:28) 26-C.Portis right guard to HST 9 for 5 yards (92-E.Mitchell).
2-5-HOU 9
(7:49) 26-C.Portis left end to HST 5 for 4 yards (31-B.Pollard, 29-G.Quin).
3-1-HOU 5

Here's where everything really started going downhill.

(7:49) PENALTY on WAS-77-J.Brown, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 5 - No Play.

3rd and 6 27-27. Do you want to run it here?
3-6-HOU 10 (6:45) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to 89-S.Moss (26-E.Wilson, 72-J.Nading).

Still hurts to even think about this play
[/B]4-6-HOU 10 (6:40) 4-G.Gano 29 yard field goal is BLOCKED (31-B.Pollard), Center-57-N.Sundberg, Holder-6-J.Bidwell, RECOVERED by HST-95-S.Cody at HST 16. 95-S.Cody to HST 16 for no gain (75-A.Hicks).

So we get the ball back after a failed Texans drive. Now I'll admit, this was pretty dumb
2-5-HOU 46
(4:22) 89-S.Moss left end to WAS 46 for -8 yards (31-B.Pollard). End around

Still it's 3rd and 13 so we have to pass. Incomplete we punt, Houston scores. Now we're tied 27-27. We get the ball back with 2:03 left in the 4th Quarter. Obviously we can't run it now.

Looking back the End around to Moss, the Chanelling Barry Sanders moves, and the Jamaal Brown false start on 3rd and 1 combined with our defenses second half breakdown prevented us from using ground and pound to finish the game. As painful as it is to relive it's by no means a personnel problem.[/quote]

Nicely done. You nailed it. Outside of the end around (and you know the rule there too: if it works he's a genius) I don't have a problem with the way Kyle called the game -- McNabb was lighting up the field, and they went with it.

The point-by-point plays you've outlined here should silence the "they should have run it more" crowd.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Good breakdown.

I'm not ready to panic when it comes to the running game either. The game plan today clearly was to attack the weak Texan's secondary.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=GTripp0012;736329]What I'm saying is: the rushing offense is clearly the achillies heel of our team. You need a strong running game to finish off blowouts. This game should have been a blowout, but we were ahead of them because McNabb was playing other worldly for nearly three quarters.

He played more in line with his career numbers in the fourth and that great running game he didn't have in Philadelphia that Shanahan was going to provide him with to help him extend his career...well, that was a fun myth while it lasted, was it not?[/quote]

I agree...any idea why?

I have my suspicions that our OLinemen are mostly just average run blockers and our backs are mostly just average backs. I have watched plenty of football the last few weeks and the thing that sticks out to me on offense is that all of our backs look so damn plodding. No quickness, no explosion. CP does a lot of good things but he simply isn't the runner he used to be. It's too bad because he still catches the ball decent and blocks far better than other RBs. Watching us try to run the ball is an exercise in utter frustration.