Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;737276]I agree, anyone who takes joy in killing innocent animals would qualify as having a questionable character. I wouldn't stop at dogs however, I would extend that assement to those who hunt for sport also.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you'll find all you want on the issue right here.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/18906-grand-jury-indicts-vick.html[/URL]

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Mattyk;737269]From a [B]pure football perspective[/B] (and that's all that really matters here) I agree 100% with Reid's decision.[/quote]

I wish people would do this around here a bit more.

I don't know right now who plays the Eagles next, but it will be interested to see Vick going against a good team that has the chance to gameplan against him and see some tape on his play. Still, a Stafford-less Lions put up a fight against the Eagles.

I get the feeling that there may be some internal conflict over this situation. This was supposed to be Kolb's team, but I'm sure someone (either Reid or the FO) made the case for Vick (which is not hard to do given the results.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Another perspective to look at this from is what the Eagles plan to do down the road. Sure Vick looks pretty good right now (albeit against the Lions), but do the eagles really look at Vick as their quarterback of the future? Is this a situation where Andy Reid's hand is being forced to start Vick, and as soon as he messes up, it's Kolb's team again?

From a management perspective, I would try and get my young quarterback as many games under his belt as possible. Yeah he looked pretty bad the first game, but can you really judge a quarterback on one game against a pretty good defense? Control of the locker room notwithstanding, I would start Kolb until midseason, and if he still isn't cutting it, THEN put Vick in. It's nice to know Vick's a capable backup, and potential starter, but you have to give the guy you've invested so much time and money in a chance to be what you drafted him to be - your franchise quarterback.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;737276]I agree, anyone who takes joy in killing innocent animals would qualify as having a questionable character. I wouldn't stop at dogs however, I would extend that assement to those who hunt for sport also.[/quote]

It's also one of the signs of a potential serial killer.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_triad]Macdonald triad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I've rooted for Vick every since I was younger going to see him in Lane Stadium and I've said since the start of his release from prison that he deserves another shot at being a starting QB in this league. I'm not saying this guy made the best decisions in life but I think everyone needs to realize that he did do his time, he admitted his mistakes, and hasn't done anything recently except shut his mouth and let his playing do the talking. And I don't condone dog killings at all.. I have a dog also but him growing up where he did and seeing what I bet none of us on this board ever would have to witness growing up I doubt it was that easy to walk away from a culture that was burned into him as a child.. just saying.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Simply put, Vick gives the Eagles the benefits of a heavy duty running game without the Eagles needing to run much.

I'll bet Fat Andy will make some excuse to put in Kolb, but after 2-3 weeks of sucking, he caves in and goes with Vick.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I think this is the best move. Andy Reid is no dummy. Vick is recovered from his layoff, he obviously gives the offense a huge lift, and it seems like he knows the playbook better than Kolb for some reason.

If Vick stays healthy, he gives the Eagles their QB for the next 4 to 5 years, best case scenario 8 more years. I dont understand the knock on Vick for being 30 years old. All things considered he is a young 30 as he missed nearly 3 seasons..

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;737350]I think this is the best move. Andy Reid is no dummy. Vick is recovered from his layoff, he obviously gives the offense a huge lift, and it seems like he knows the playbook better than Kolb for some reason.

If Vick stays healthy, he gives the Eagles their QB for the next 4 to 5 years, best case scenario 8 more years. [B]I dont understand the knock on Vick for being 30 years old.[/B] All things considered he is a young 30 as he missed nearly 3 seasons..[/quote]

Because until he proves long term that he's a passer you're basically looking at a 30 year old running back. One of the biggest questions facing Vick right now is did he just put up these ridiculous numbers against a prevent defense and a bottom dweller. Remember two games is way to small a sample size. Two good games from Kolb is all it took to get McNabb traded, now we're looking at two good games from Vick.

Admittedly the prospect of him having developed as a passer is terrifying. I thought when the Eagles signed him they were getting a 50% passer that liked to run. I didn't think that Andy Reid was THAT good with QB's.

The bigger question though is how do the Eagles approach this if they do end up with a Pro Bowl Mike Vick on their hands. They obviously just signed Kolb to the extension in part because the Eagles always like to go young. Vick is still in bankruptcy and hypothetically if his play over the last two weeks carry's over to the rest of the season he'll be looking at something like a 5 year $60 million contract. He is one of those rare players where getting paid has to be more important then being part of a winning team. For example a typical NFL free agent has the luxury of sacrificing a million or two to sign with the right team. When you enter bankruptcy you don't have that luxury.

Then you have to wonder if the Eagles frugal ways will come to the forefront? Will a guy like Al Davis (who has to be kicking himself right now) enter the fold for a dynamic QB with a cannon for an arm? Then you have to wonder if he can succeed away from Reid in a dysfunctional organization like Oakland, Buffalo, maybe even Minnesota (God knows Arizona wouldn't be able to afford him). Obviously it's way to early to seriously be thinking about how this is going to end, but I'm praying that either Jacksonville or a certain Washington team can expose him and we can go back to laughing at the Eagles for giving us McNabb.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;737258]Reid is history in a couple seasons. Vick will revert to Atlanta form soon enough and then you will have an inefficient Kolb trying to take over late in the season. Mike has upgraded his passing ability, but that isn't saying much, since his last season in ATL he barely would hit the 100 yd passing mark, trying to do his Barry Sanders impersonation. Neither is beating Detroit such a great feat, especially since the Lions did comeback.[/quote]

Vick is no Gus Frerotte, that's for sure...:cheeky-sm

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I saw in the local Paper that Andy Reid said the decision was mostly based on the fact that he felt that Michael Vick has developed into a passer and has gotten himself away from the run first mentality.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I think it is the right football move but at the same time it shows how poorly run that team has been run for a few years now and how average Reid has become as a coach. They just spent an entire off-season trying to convince anyone who'd listen that a youth movement was afoot when there didn't seem a need to even have one and just 2 games into the season they bag it? They cut Kolb's knees out from under him. This couldn't have worked out any worse organizationally for them. Here again is prrof that they're one of those teams that is too smart for their own good.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Question is now, are they really believing that Vick is the future for that team? I mean if he plays well this season and the eagles make the playoffs, which they should, do they resign Michael Vick and let him battle with Kolb?

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;737358]Question is now, are they really believing that Vick is the future for that team? I mean if he plays well this season and the eagles make the playoffs, which they should, do they resign Michael Vick and let him battle with Kolb?[/quote]

Who they just gave a decent contract to over the summer?

How does this work for them? Vick plays well...they can't resign him because he'll cost too much. Or they do resign him and do what with Kolb? Now you are paying two guys to be your starting QB? I mean I understand it is about winning but at the same time it has been 2 games. I don't see how they came to an earth-shattering decision like this after 2 games. For god's sake just say Kolb is still banged up. Make something up so it doesn't look like you're benching the guy you just dumped your HOF QB for.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I did not realize Vick had been sacked so much. Peter King and Ross Tucker just said his stats for his 4 years as a starter where he had 15 or 16 games: 33, 46, 33, 45. And he has 9 so far in 6 quarters. For someone with his elusiveness that is a lot.

In checking McNabb's numbers in years he played 14+ games: 42, 33, 44, 23(only 16 game season), 35.

I am not sure how that will play out, but 9 sacks in 6 quarters is a lot of pounding.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=FRPLG;737359]Who they just gave a decent contract to over the summer?

How does this work for them? Vick plays well...they can't resign him because he'll cost too much. Or they do resign him and do what with Kolb? Now you are paying two guys to be your starting QB? I mean I understand it is about winning but at the same time it has been 2 games. [B]I don't see how they came to an earth-shattering decision like this after 2 games[/B]. For god's sake just say Kolb is still banged up. Make something up so it doesn't look like you're benching the guy you just dumped your HOF QB for.[/quote]

Lol, as I said before two games seems to be the magic number in Philly. You play well for two games you get promoted to franchise savior. First with Kolb last year against a feast or famine New Orleans D along with a great outing against a rebuilding Kansas D and now the same thing has happened with Mike Vick.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

What is the consensus here? Will Michael Vick be an Eagle next year??

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=12thMan;737252]I think Reid took some time, reflected on the matter, and changed his mind. Simple as that. I don't think anyone was pulling his stings. I watched nearly all of his presser today and he seemed very comfortable with the decision and explained that right now Vick is one of the hottest QBs in the NFL, with the fourth highest QB rating.[/quote]

Every necessary precaution is going to be safeguarded regarding the return of Kevin Kolb from a concussion. The league is dead serious. To expose him to further unnecessary risk would be unwise on the Eagles part. I would be surprised if the medical report didn't have an influence on the teams decision.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Longtimefan;737385]Every necessary precaution is going to be safeguarded regarding the return of Kevin Kolb from a concussion. The league is dead serious. To expose him to further unnecessary risk would be unwise on the Eagles part. I would be surprised if the medical report didn't have an influence on the teams decision.[/quote]

I still don't know how the Eagles got away with sending Kolb and Bradley out into the field despite their concussions.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;737366]What is the consensus here? Will Michael Vick be an Eagle next year??[/quote]

Yes. Reid will NOT be. Kolb will be a backup or traded because they overpaid him, and that's not a backup's salary.


Starting Vick IS the right move for them this season, but he's not a long-term answer like they claimed Kolb would be.

I knew Kolb would not only fail to live up to McNabb's success, but will not be a capable starter. Despite the media's and Reid's claims I've heard, he looked horrible in his chances to play. Reid benched McNabb for having a bad game, Kolb came in and played even worse against that Ravens D. He threw a 108-yard pick 6 to Reed and another INT. He finished 2008 with 0 TDs, 4 INTs and 2009 had him with 4 TD/3 INT. Even in his big game against New Orleans with 391 yards in a 48-22 loss where they abandoned the run and he attempted 51 passes, he had 2 TDs and 3 INTs. Week 1 this season looked just as bad with 5/10 for 24 yards and a fumble before the concussion. He's a 4th-year QB in the same system, he should be past these mistakes. He's not as turnover-prone as Cutler...he's more comparable to Sanchez or even Patrick Ramsey, but I think the Eagles are quickly realizing they made a gigantic blunder by thinking they could replace McNabb with Kolb. He doesn't even look capable to start, forget about going to 6 NFC Championships. (to surpass McNabb's success)

They made an even more stupid mistake by handing him $12 million guaranteed in an extension through 2011, before he did anything on the field.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=FRPLG;737359]Who they just gave a decent contract to over the summer?

How does this work for them? Vick plays well...they can't resign him because he'll cost too much. Or they do resign him and do what with Kolb? Now you are paying two guys to be your starting QB? I mean I understand it is about winning but at the same time it has been 2 games. I don't see how they came to an earth-shattering decision like this after 2 games. For god's sake just say Kolb is still banged up. Make something up so it doesn't look like you're benching the guy you just dumped your HOF QB for.[/quote]

Similar situation with San Diego and Rivers/Brees. They'll franchise Vick if he plays well, then try to trade him, IMO.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Why not just resign Vick at the end of the year to a reasonable 4 or 5 year contract, and trade Kolb for whatever you could get for him?? Vick is not old people. If he is protected, he could play for as many as 8 more years, maybe even more.....

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I think it's a given at this point, barring a major injury or a complete implosion, Mike Vick will get franchised by the Eagles. Still there will be suiters. And if the price is right I wouldn't be surprised to see Vick go to the highest bidder next season.

It shall be interesting.

On a somewhat related note, with the combination of early benchings and injuries to QBs this year in the NFL has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you need two starting quality QBs to make it through the season. If my count is right, something like 5 or 6 starting QBs have been benched and we just finished week two.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=12thMan;737439]I think it's a given at this point, barring a major injury or a complete implosion, Mike Vick will get franchised by the Eagles. Still there will be suiters. And if the price is right I wouldn't be surprised to see Vick go to the highest bidder next season.

It shall be interesting.

On a somewhat related note, with the combination of early benchings and injuries to QBs this year in the NFL has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you need two starting quality QBs to make it through the season. If my count is right, something like 5 or 6 starting QBs have been benched and we just finished week two.[/quote]

Yeah! Teams have long since come to the realization it's going to take 2-3 running backs to get through a season, the same is going to eventually hold true for QB's as well. This move, if implemented successfully, could eventually affect how both NFL QB's & RB's are compensated.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

If the Franchise tag rules stay the same, a qb franchise tag could be at around 19 Million dollars (after Brady and Peyton's deals). I am not sure that the Eagles, or anyone else will see Vick as worth that.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I agree about the two QBs. That's why Rex was a real solid pickup. I don't think anyone would confuse him with a pro-bowler but over 304 games he can probably keep going and win some. He's an average starter and an above average backup.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;737458]If the Franchise tag rules stay the same, a qb franchise tag could be at around 19 Million dollars (after Brady and Peyton's deals). I am not sure that the Eagles, or anyone else will see Vick as worth that.[/quote]

No but they can rescind that at any time before he signs the tender. Tagging would keep him in their control and they can then work on trading him for something reasonable.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Today's paper in Philly:

[IMG]http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/5308/fronthvj.jpg[/IMG]

[url]http://media.philly.com/storage/dailynews/covers/front.jpg[/url]

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;737352]Because until he proves long term that he's a passer you're basically looking at a 30 year old running back. One of the biggest questions facing Vick right now is did he just put up these ridiculous numbers against a prevent defense and a bottom dweller. [B]Remember two games is way to small a sample size. Two good games from Kolb is all it took to get McNabb traded, now we're looking at two good games from Vick.[/B]

Admittedly the prospect of him having developed as a passer is terrifying. I thought when the Eagles signed him they were getting a 50% passer that liked to run. I didn't think that Andy Reid was THAT good with QB's.

The bigger question though is how do the Eagles approach this if they do end up with a Pro Bowl Mike Vick on their hands. They obviously just signed Kolb to the extension in part because the Eagles always like to go young. Vick is still in bankruptcy and hypothetically if his play over the last two weeks carry's over to the rest of the season he'll be looking at something like a 5 year $60 million contract. He is one of those rare players where getting paid has to be more important then being part of a winning team. For example a typical NFL free agent has the luxury of sacrificing a million or two to sign with the right team. When you enter bankruptcy you don't have that luxury.

Then you have to wonder if the Eagles frugal ways will come to the forefront? Will a guy like Al Davis (who has to be kicking himself right now) enter the fold for a dynamic QB with a cannon for an arm? Then you have to wonder if he can succeed away from Reid in a dysfunctional organization like Oakland, Buffalo, maybe even Minnesota (God knows Arizona wouldn't be able to afford him). Obviously it's way to early to seriously be thinking about how this is going to end, but I'm praying that either Jacksonville or a certain Washington team can expose him and we can go back to laughing at the Eagles for giving us McNabb.[/quote]

Small sample size for you but rember Andy gets to see them play everyday for the past two years. After watching Vick play last year I don't think anyone thought Vick could still play like he did but he has proven he can still play. Even if its a small sample we can all agree he has returned to the level he was before he got in trouble.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

good point about the big franchise price Credskinsrule, that would be a lot to pay for a player of his background.

Vick sounded much more mature & well spoken when asked about Kolb starting earlier this week. Now that he's the starter & in a contract year, he is extra motivated. Glad Haslett will at least have a couple games of tape on him.

Don't discount what he did v. detroit. On some of those plays he had a lot of time, but he also bought time & made great throws.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;737214]I don't believe this was Reid's decision. Another tidbit from ESPN.



Since when did the front office personal sit in on film sessions? Jeffery Lurie has pulled a Bud Adams IMO.[/quote]

well, granted they have gotten involved but a lot of FO's make personnel decisions, not just in Philly

Vick was the better QB vs GB and did well against DET, you want to give yourself the best chance to win each and every week

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Apparently, the Browns called the Eagles about getting Kolb last night, according to Anthony Gargano (WIP -Philly).

The Browns' GM used to be the Eagles' GM and tried to get Kolb in the offseason this year already.

Interestingly hilarious.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Yeah.. they said no deal, but Reid wouldn't say if he was a lock for the roster before the trade deadline, something about he couldn't predict it

to me that had the undertones of "I don't call the shots around here"

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

LOL, lovin the IGGLEs right now.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=tryfuhl;737551]Yeah.. they said no deal, but Reid wouldn't say if he was a lock for the roster before the trade deadline, something about he couldn't predict it

to me that had the undertones of "I don't call the shots around here"[/quote]

Well that was obvious as he was literally shedding tears over trading Donovan.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

According to the NFL, The Eagles have begun listening to offers for Kevin Kolb. The browns called them just last night....

So I guess Vick is their future afteralll.....

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;737352]Admittedly the prospect of him having developed as a passer is terrifying. I thought when the Eagles signed him they were getting a 50% passer that liked to run. I didn't think that Andy Reid was THAT good with QB's.[/quote]

If Vick humbled himself he would be an apt student for Reid's WCO.
Vick has every tangible trait a QB coach would love his upside was so obvious that i'm surprised people missed it.
But, for some reason I was basically in a 1 man argument against all extremeskins that Vick had upside.
Vick will probably never be as good as the QB Steve Young turned out to be, but the similiaities are obvious both left handed both were running QBs before they received top level coaching late in their careers. But, unlike Young, Vick was a winning QB even before he learned how to be an effecient passer.
I'm not going to hide the fact that i was a Vick fan and now i'm faced with rooting for my favorite non-Redskin to fail.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=FRPLG;737479]No but they can rescind that at any time before he signs the tender. Tagging would keep him in their control and they can then work on trading him for something reasonable.[/quote]

Call me crazy, but if someone put a 19Million tag on me, I would sign that in a heartbeat, and I think Vick would too.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;737579]Call me crazy, but if someone put a 19Million tag on me, I would sign that in a heartbeat, and I think Vick would too.[/quote]

IDK, are you sure you wouldn't take the money and want to play a different position 4 months later :bdh:

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=30gut;737578]If Vick humbled himself he would be an apt student for Reid's WCO.
Vick has every tangible trait a QB coach would love his upside was so obvious that i'm surprised people missed it.
But, for some reason I was basically in a 1 man argument against all extremeskins that Vick had upside.
Vick will probably never be as good as the QB Steve Young turned out to be, but the similiaities are obvious both left handed both were running QBs before they received top level coaching late in their careers. But, unlike Young, Vick was a winning QB even before he learned how to be an effecient passer.
I'm not going to hide the fact that i was a Vick fan and now i'm faced with rooting for my favorite non-Redskin to fail.[/quote]

Ok he has had two good games so lets not make him King Vick until a few more games.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=firstdown;737602]Ok he has had two good games so lets not make him King Vick until a few more games.[/quote]

More good games than Kolb has had in his 4-year career.