Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=mlmdub130;744781]while it's nice he is getting some holding calls, he needs to learn how to get off those holds and get a sack. [/quote] Again, my man B-Mitch spoke about this. Some people don't realize that you can LEARN how to keep a man from holding you.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=LavaRnChad;744886]Again, my man B-Mitch spoke about this. Some people don't realize that you can LEARN how to keep a man from holding you.[/quote]

Yeah, now's a good time for him to learn the swim move, spin move, and other ways of using his hands to overcome holding.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

I think, instead of criticizing Rak, for not getting off of holds, how about holding the rest of the d-line/pass rushers to higher standard? If there was anyone else getting the the QB nearly as often as Rak, the non-calls wouldn't be as big of deal. The pressure that makes the quaterback move in the pocket should allow other rushers to have sack opportunities. Rak is doing a fine job, to think you can teach a player how to shed a block when he is being held on to seems a bit much too ask. Pressure from ANYONE else would make these non-calls moot.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Mattyk;743845][url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/10/on_brian_orakpo_and_holding.html?wprss=dcsportsbog]D.C. Sports Bog - On Brian Orakpo and holding[/url]

He would probably be leading the league in sacks if it weren't for all the holding.[/quote]

dude i was thinking and arguing that same point.

The cowboys & eagle games are great examples.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=LavaRnChad;744733]The holding stat can be misleading because of the different variables. If other passrushers played against the same tackles (especially the NFL's worst Alex Barron) and in front of the same officiating groups as Rak did, would they have forced the same amount of holding calls? Maybe more? Maybe less? It can't be determined, that's why the forced holding stat is useless when comparing player to player.[/quote]
You could say that about any stat. Every other pass rusher has been going up against different tackles in different situations, so there are always different circumstances when comparing different players. The forced holding stat is just as relevant as sacks and hurries.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

Hopefully the pathetic Packers line lets Rak through for his first breakout game of the season. 3.5 sacks -- calling it :)

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=apiatt;744952]I think, instead of criticizing Rak, for not getting off of holds, how about holding the rest of the d-line/pass rushers to higher standard? If there was anyone else getting the the QB nearly as often as Rak, the non-calls wouldn't be as big of deal. The pressure that makes the quaterback move in the pocket should allow other rushers to have sack opportunities. Rak is doing a fine job, to think you can teach a player how to shed a block when he is being held on to seems a bit much too ask. Pressure from ANYONE else would make these non-calls moot.[/quote]

Excellent point. For all the attention Orakpo is drawing they must be ignoring someone

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

Hopefully Carter can pick up the slack now that he's back to DE.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

OK, when is a hold a hold? I mean, Packers looked like they had Orakpo on a choke hold several times!

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

Yeah I thought the refs let way too much slide. Rak was getting clotheslined on almost every rush it seemed, and those two missed PI calls were totally blown.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=saden1;746339]OK, when is a hold a hold? I mean, Packers looked like they had Orakpo on a choke hold several times![/quote]And on two separate occasions, FOX isolated Bulaga blatantly holding Orakpo, and Aikman commented what a great job Bulaga was doing, not mentioning that Orakpo was in a chokehold around his neck. People say that Orakpo has to earn officials' respect to get more calls, but what has Bulaga done to get the benefit of the doubt on two clear holds???

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=apiatt;744952]I think, instead of criticizing Rak, for not getting off of holds, how about holding the rest of the d-line/pass rushers to higher standard? If there was anyone else getting the the QB nearly as often as Rak, the non-calls wouldn't be as big of deal. The pressure that makes the quaterback move in the pocket should allow other rushers to have sack opportunities. Rak is doing a fine job, to think you can teach a player how to shed a block when he is being held on to seems a bit much too ask. Pressure from ANYONE else would make these non-calls moot.[/quote]

Exactly. Outside of Albert and Rak, we have no one worth holding. Golston can easily get owned by double teams and he WAS INDEED being BLOWN UP by the LIONS RG last year.
Carriker is a nice space eater, but he's not that athletic.
Kemo is still not 100%
Holliday is just there because he knows what he's doing
Carter doesn't make too much noise
Jarmon may or may not be something, but he's only played one game.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=SouperMeister;746344]And on two separate occasions, FOX isolated Bulaga blatantly holding Orakpo, and Aikman commented what a great job Bulaga was doing, not mentioning that Orakpo was in a chokehold around his neck. People say that Orakpo has to earn officials' respect to get more calls, but what has Bulaga done to get the benefit of the doubt on two clear holds???[/quote]

Later he points out Heyer holding in the End Zone, which was much less blatant as he kept his hands inside the shoulders. If I have to watch another Joe Buck/Troy Aikmen called game... I need to get the home kit for Sirius.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;746423]Exactly. Outside of Albert and Rak, we have no one worth holding. Golston can easily get owned by double teams and he WAS INDEED being BLOWN UP by the LIONS RG last year.
Carriker is a nice space eater, but he's not that athletic.
Kemo is still not 100%
Holliday is just there because he knows what he's doing
Carter doesn't make too much noise
Jarmon may or may not be something, but he's only played one game.[/quote]

Wilson has showed passrush skills in the past, Zo has showed he can do anything. Haynesworth.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Player_HTTR;746428]Later he points out Heyer holding in the End Zone, which was much less blatant as he kept his hands inside the shoulders. If I have to watch another Joe Buck/Troy Aikmen called game... I need to get the home kit for Sirius.[/quote]Totally agree on the non-hold in the end zone against Clay Matthews - he basically had him by the pads just under the armpits, which by definition is a completely legal block in pass protection as long as you don't pull the player down.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=SouperMeister;746433]Totally agree on the non-hold in the end zone against Clay Matthews - he basically had him by the pads just under the armpits, which by definition is a completely legal block in pass protection as long as you don't pull the player down.[/quote]

Don't be homers, that was a hold...Mathew's jersey was being pulled! Akiman did an awesome job!

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=saden1;746434]Don't be homers, that was a hold...Mathew's jersey was being pulled! Akiman did an awesome job![/quote]

Never said it wasn't a hold, just less blatant than an arm around the neck, which earned Bulaga praise.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Player_HTTR;746429]Wilson has showed passrush skills in the past, Zo has showed he can do anything. Haynesworth.[/quote]

How many holding "phantom" holding penalties have Wilson and Alexander drawn? Exactly.

I also said "Albert and Rak".

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;746491]How many holding "phantom" holding penalties have Wilson and Alexander drawn? Exactly.

I also said "Albert and Rak".[/quote]

Missed the Albert reference. Bunch of touchy people on today, jeesh.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=apiatt;744952]I think, instead of criticizing Rak, for not getting off of holds, how about[B] holding the rest of the d-line/pass rushers to higher standard? If there was anyone else getting the the QB nearly as often as Rak, the non-calls wouldn't be as big of deal. [/B]The pressure that makes the quaterback move in the pocket should allow other rushers to have sack opportunities. Rak is doing a fine job, to think you can teach a player how to shed a block when he is being held on to seems a bit much too ask. Pressure from ANYONE else would make these non-calls moot.[/quote]

Outside of AH the rest of the guys really aren't athletic enough, they're not explosive like Rak is. Not even Carter.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

Anyone curious if we'll see Zoe make strides in this area of his game. We're seeing him do some amazing things in coverage for a huge dude...he should be able to transfer that agility into getting to the QB.