Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;783236]Roger Goodell seems to be a double-edged sword for the league.

On his watch, the league has set humongous TV ratings records and since the bulk of the mone comes from TV, that has to be a big plus for him - - - even if he was not uniquely responsible for the soaring ratings.
[/quote]

Agree; though businesses exist to make max profits, over-commercialization has definitely made the music and film world much less tolerable.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

The upcoming strike is more based around the last deal than what Goodell has done, to be fair.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

I dislike many of the things Goodell has done/is doing. He has way too much power and at best he is reluctant to share it, at worst he seems like a power monger. He hands out fines with impunity and suspensions like they were after school detention slips. I think the Conduct Policy is a great thing but most of the time these players aren't charged with anything let alone convicted and he appoints an investigator and then decides on the punishment?

I also think the player safety/18 game season issue makes him a hypocritical joke. I also want the draft back on Saturdays.

Now having said all that you simply can't argue with the ratings/revenue under his leadership. So I think he might be good for the league but bad for the game as we know it, if that makes any sense!

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

Goodell is doing good things to get player conduct and head injuries under control, but I see him as being too cozy with the owners on the labor talks, especially with the way he has lobbied for European expansion and the 18 game schedule. His ability to drive consensus in the upcoming CBA talks will demonstrate his true leadership, and I would say that he's great for the league if he can broker an agreement without a work stoppage.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Jontrem;783308]I dislike many of the things Goodell has done/is doing. [B]He has way too much power and at best he is reluctant to share it, at worst he seems like a power monger. He hands out fines with impunity and suspensions like they were after school detention slips. I think the Conduct Policy is a great thing but most of the time these players aren't charged with anything let alone convicted and he appoints an investigator and then decides on the punishment? [/B]

I also think the player safety/18 game season issue makes him a hypocritical joke. I also want the draft back on Saturdays.

Now having said all that you simply can't argue with the ratings/revenue under his leadership. So I think he might be good for the league but bad for the game as we know it, if that makes any sense![/quote]

I agree 100%. He's out of control with all of his fines. A group of former players and coaches needs to be formed, and if someone appeals they should have the power to over rule Goodell.

And the whole Farve thing was so stupid. Sterger complains two years later and he's got former FBI guys doing this investigation, like it's a high profile murder case. Such as waste of everyones time and money.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Mattyk;783237]Ratings were up about 30% if I recall, that's a pretty big boost[/quote]

The 30% figure is the thursday night 1st round. I never saw anything reported about how they did on Friday starting it during rush hour and without the lure of the 1st round prospects to attract the average fan. The stretching out to 3 days and the rediculously early start on Friday is really my biggest problem. I can accept that the primetime first round is here to stay but why not a Friday night 1st round and then rounds 2-7 on Saturday? That way they get the 1st round in Primetime but the draft diehards who are responsible for making it an event in the first place still get their full Saturday of draft coverage. The 3 day setup now just infuriates me...

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

The big draw is obviously the first round, beyond that I'm sure the ratings fall off no matter what day it's on.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

I personally don't have the patience to sit there for hours watching the draft. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE football, but I don't feel the need to watch the draft past the first round.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=celts32;783387]The 30% figure is the thursday night 1st round. I never saw anything reported about how they did on Friday starting it during rush hour and without the lure of the 1st round prospects to attract the average fan. The stretching out to 3 days and the rediculously early start on Friday is really my biggest problem. I can accept that the primetime first round is here to stay but why not a Friday night 1st round and then rounds 2-7 on Saturday? That way they get the 1st round in Primetime but the draft diehards who are responsible for making it an event in the first place still get their full Saturday of draft coverage. The 3 day setup now just infuriates me...[/quote]

This sounds even better than the old system to me. Instead of 1 full day of the draft we would get Firday night plus Saturday all day. Why would they not want to do this?

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=skinsguy;783392]I personally don't have the patience to sit there for hours watching the draft. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE football, but I don't feel the need to watch the draft past the first round.[/quote]

I think a lot of people share that view, and I'm sure the ratings support that too.

Beyond the first round I'll check in here and there but I definitely don't park in front of the TV for hours on end. Not when it's so easy to just log on and get whatever info you need.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Mattyk;783405]I think a lot of people share that view, and I'm sure the ratings support that too.

Beyond the first round I'll check in here and there but I definitely don't park in front of the TV for hours on end. Not when it's so easy to just log on and get whatever info you need.[/quote]

I must say, Twitter has sort of killed the "suspense" from the NFL draft. I think last year the sports outlets would tweet the pick about 5 mins before it was announced on TV.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;783413]I must say, Twitter has sort of killed the "suspense" from the NFL draft. I think last year the sports outlets would tweet the pick about 5 mins before it was announced on TV.[/quote]

Yeah, I wonder if the NFL will squash that this year

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

This a good article, Tinkering With a Longer Season, from my new favorite blog, besides this one, The Fifth Down.

[url=http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/tinkering-with-a-longer-n-f-l-season/]Tinkering With a Longer N.F.L. Season - NYTimes.com[/url]

A couple of options:

17 Game season
18 Game season w/ players playing a maximum of 16 games
17 games w/ a nuetral site game

The best thing I took from the article: Fans don't want 18 games, they just don't want to pay full price for a preseason game.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

I really really don’t like goodell and I think hes bad for the NFL. The dude just doesn’t get it.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/17/same-as-suh-jags-mike-lockley-fined-20000/]Same as Suh: Jags’ Mike Lockley fined $20,000 | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE]Both Suh and Lockley were called for personal fouls after engaging in the kinds of dangerous hits that the NFL is trying to reduce. So it makes sense that they were both fined.

But the NFL fining Suh and Lockley the same amount is, frankly, ridiculous. Lockley is an undrafted rookie just hoping to make the Jaguars’ regular-season roster at the league-minimum salary of $375,000, which comes out to $22,000 a week for the 17 weeks of the regular season. The league has effectively docked Lockley a full game check.

Suh, on the other hand, will make $60 million over the five-year contract he signed with the Lions last year. The total value of Suh’s contract works out to more than $700,000 a week, so a $20,000 fine is chump change to him.[/QUOTE]

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

I've got no problem with Suh getting fined.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

He completely destroyed the NFL Draft holiday and I will always hold that against him. Aside from that I like the job Roger has done.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

I think he made the draft even better. Two thumbs up to prime time drafts.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=mattyk;824412]i think he made the draft even better. Two thumbs up to prime time drafts.[/quote]

amen!!!

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Mattyk;824412]I think he made the draft even better. Two thumbs up to prime time drafts.[/quote]

It's terrible. Draft saturday used to be a holiday for football fans to get together. The prime time format took that away from the diehards in exchange for a couple more casual viewers in primetime.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

A [I]couple[/I] more viewers? Ratings are significantly higher.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;783413]I must say, Twitter has sort of killed the "suspense" from the NFL draft. I think last year the sports outlets would tweet the pick about 5 mins before it was announced on TV.[/quote]

You know you can cut twitter off.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Mattyk;824458]A [I]couple[/I] more viewers? Ratings are significantly higher.[/quote]

Matt you put anything in primetime and ratings will go up. But that little bit of money earned does not justify taking away the draft saturday from the diehards who actually made it an event in the first place. And actually the first round is the only one that is even in primetime. The Friday schedule is what aggravates me the most! Someone needs to let Roger know that 6PM on Friday is rush hour on the East Coast not primetime! And it is 3PM for the fans on the West Coast.

I understand they want the 1st round in primetime and it's never going back to saturday afternoon. But how about making round #1 8PM on Friday and then have the rest of the draft all day Saturday. That gives the long time draft fans back their draft saturday and gets rid of the STUPID 6PM Friday start time.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

Well, you can't keep everyone happy obviously. But overall the new draft has been a big success for the league.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=celts32;824497]Matt you put anything in primetime and ratings will go up. But that little bit of money earned does not justify taking away the draft saturday from the diehards who actually made it an event in the first place. And actually the first round is the only one that is even in primetime. The Friday schedule is what aggravates me the most! Someone needs to let Roger know that 6PM on Friday is rush hour on the East Coast not primetime! And it is 3PM for the fans on the West Coast.

I understand they want the 1st round in primetime and it's never going back to saturday afternoon. But how about making round #1 8PM on Friday and then have the rest of the draft all day Saturday. That gives the long time draft fans back their draft saturday and gets rid of the STUPID 6PM Friday start time.[/quote]

That's partly my fault...and that's all I'm going say about that

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;824511]That's partly my fault...and that's all I'm going say about that[/quote]

Perhaps I owe Roger an apology. I assumed this was the NFL's decision but it sounds like you are telling me that ESPN had a big hand in this. I would love to know the logic behind anything considered to be an event starting at 6PM on a week night. It's absurd...

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=Mattyk;824404]I've got no problem with Suh getting fined.[/quote]

Yeah i think thats a fair fine for Suh. But to charge Lockly 1/16th of what he has the chance to make this year is rediculous. Its comparable to a $700,000 fine to Suh, which i would have a problem with.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;824511]That's partly my fault...and that's all I'm going say about that[/quote]


Can ESPN or ABC do anything about moving Sunday night and Monday night games up ealier then. If there are 2 nights in particular each week i really dont like staying up late, its those 2 nights. I mean i get that theres all sorts of recap and analysis programming they can put on before each of those games that are probably big money makers but to try and stay up to 1130 or 12 on a Sunday and Monday night is just too much to ask of some people.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

They tried the earlier start for MNF years ago and it was a big fail.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=celts32;824555]Perhaps I owe Roger an apology. I assumed this was the NFL's decision but it sounds like you are telling me that ESPN had a big hand in this. I would love to know the logic behind anything considered to be an event starting at 6PM on a week night. It's absurd...[/quote]

No, I just meant I (we) maybe didn't do enough to stop it. Honestly, not sure we even could have. Moving the draft to Thursday and Friday night was an absolute nightmare for us. I mean the NFL is the big dog. But we had to have a lot of delicate discussions with other leagues with whom there are certain contractual obligations.

Ratings wise and fan reaction wise (with some exceptions, of course), it has worked out well for us. But I can tell you that it was nearly two years of intense discussions and back and forth.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;824567]Can ESPN or ABC do anything about moving Sunday night and Monday night games up ealier then. If there are 2 nights in particular each week i really dont like staying up late, its those 2 nights. I mean i get that theres all sorts of recap and analysis programming they can put on before each of those games that are probably big money makers but to try and stay up to 1130 or 12 on a Sunday and Monday night is just too much to ask of some people.[/quote]

We've got nothing to do with Sunday nights, and MNF has moved up. Moved the start time up 5 years ago from 9pm to 8:30pm. Except for the double-header opener where the start time is 7pm

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;824390]I really really don’t like goodell and I think hes bad for the NFL. The dude just doesn’t get it.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/17/same-as-suh-jags-mike-lockley-fined-20000/]Same as Suh: Jags’ Mike Lockley fined $20,000 | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

i completely agree with you, this fine is a complete joke, and i hope he ends up getting it reduced if he ends up making the team and having to pay it. who ever wrote the article had a great point that makes all the sense in the world, fine them a percentage of their salary so it effects each player in a similiar manner. goodell is an idiot just like stern, they can't establish any kind of consistency in how they hand down fines and punishments.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

Goodell has done an okay job that's been punctuated by a lot of really bad decisions -- I remember reading an article about how players really hate goodell and someone remarked that even though Tagliabue wasn't exactly buddy buddy with the players, most people in the league respected him. Not so with Goodell

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

This is a new direction to the threads in here, but whether or not Goodell is good for the NFL is almost a moot issue, as the NFL, as well as most other pro sports leagues(FIFA, and foreign sports included) are becoming more akin to WWE entertainment than anything. Sorry, just too much money passing hands in Vegas, Atlantic City, and elsewhere for there not to be big corruption in pro sports, with the NFL being top dog. This issue has been pre Goodell in all fairness, but this guy is a joke. Fining guys for hits that were OK 10, 15, 20 years ago. No TD celebrations, phantom calls with flags flying like crazy, momentum killing holding calls, etc, is rather lame. I can appreciate what he is trying to do with expanding the NFL to Europe, but that is a pipedream at best. Nationalism is creeping back into the fore in Europe, especially E Europe. I don't think they would want their local teams to be filled up with yanks, while their FIFA squad is of their own kind. Also, Europe is really hurting economically, I don't think you are going to get most Europeans to fork over that kind of $$$$$$$$ to see American football. Shoot FIFA games can't get sold out crowds most of the time, as they have to put their money to the necessities like food, clothing, rent. In short, Goodell can't escape the ever deteriorating world economy. In my opinion Goodell is just tightening the corporate grip on the NFL and I think if it continues people will lose interest, say a good 15-20 years down the road.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

Also, this HGH stuff is also a joke ,do you really think these guys get so freakishly big by just eating and lifting weights, without any "outside" help?

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;824511]That's partly my fault...and that's all I'm going say about that[/quote]

[IMG]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBPLrsHqA37FEBwKEEK6TAlDLJb8EJ_V20N3wGNRINqig37-mk[/IMG]

[B][I]That's a BAD SmootSmack![/I][/B]

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;824613]Goodell has done an okay job that's been punctuated by a lot of really bad decisions -- I remember reading an article about how players really hate goodell and someone remarked that even though Tagliabue wasn't exactly buddy buddy with the players, most people in the league respected him. Not so with Goodell[/quote]

A lot of really bad decisions? Really?

The players that you asert "really hate him" just signed on to a 10-year agreement leaving him - - or whomever is his successor - - in charge of the league and their punsihments.

The revenues have grown under Goodell from about $8B when he took over to approximately $9.2B (estimated for 2011). That is a 15% increase over a period of time when the economy has not been in great shape.

Whether or not the players "respect" Goodell is irrelevant. If I worked for WalMart and did not respect Sam Walton's descendants, it would not matter even a little bit.

Under his watch, revenues are up and there is a decade of labor peace. Explain to me how either of those things might be "bad for the league".

Then enumerate all of his really bad decisions and tell me how important they are for the NFL when compared to increased revenues and labor peace.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;824624]This is a new direction to the threads in here, but whether or not Goodell is good for the NFL is almost a moot issue, as the NFL, as well as most other pro sports leagues(FIFA, and foreign sports included) are becoming more akin to WWE entertainment than anything. Sorry, just too much money passing hands in Vegas, Atlantic City, and elsewhere for there not to be big corruption in pro sports, with the NFL being top dog. This issue has been pre Goodell in all fairness, but this guy is a joke. Fining guys for hits that were OK 10, 15, 20 years ago. No TD celebrations, phantom calls with flags flying like crazy, momentum killing holding calls, etc, is rather lame. I can appreciate what he is trying to do with expanding the NFL to Europe, but that is a pipedream at best. Nationalism is creeping back into the fore in Europe, especially E Europe. I don't think they would want their local teams to be filled up with yanks, while their FIFA squad is of their own kind. Also, Europe is really hurting economically, I don't think you are going to get most Europeans to fork over that kind of $$$$$$$$ to see American football. Shoot FIFA games can't get sold out crowds most of the time, as they have to put their money to the necessities like food, clothing, rent. In short, Goodell can't escape the ever deteriorating world economy. In my opinion Goodell is just tightening the corporate grip on the NFL and I think if it continues people will lose interest, say a good 15-20 years down the road.[/quote]


1. At one time, there was no penalty for facemasking. They change the rule. So now calls are made - - and sometimes fines levied - - for things that were OK in the past. That is called "evolving the game"...

2. If you think that fan disagreement with calls by referees is new to the Goodell era of the NFL, you are seriously mistaken.

3. "Back in the day" there were no TD celebrations. If you are going to lambaste the leage for calling things now that were not called 20 years ago, then applaud the league for going back to its roots with no TD celebrations. Or at least try to be consistent in your criticisms...

4. The NFL as a novelty in Europe has worked VERY well. The "London game" sells about 80,000 tix every year. This year it will be a home game for the Cardinals who do not sell 80,000 tix to their home games in Arizona very often. History says that "American football" is not going to be a big seller in Europe if it is there on a permanent basis. The WLAF - - under various guises - - showed that.

5. In order for the NFL to "lose grip" in 15 - 20 years, one of two conditions has to obtain:

A. Something replaces the NFL as the top dog sports attraction in the US

B. Americans find something else to do with their leisure time than follow sports.

That leads me to ask: Which of those two things will it be?

If you pick A, tell me what will replace the NFL as the American national sports obsession

If you pick B, tell me what sorts of things Americans are going to choose to do as they begin to focus on something other than sports.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/22/kickoff-rule-not-going-away-during-2011-season/]Kickoff rule not going away during 2011 season | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;825327]A lot of really bad decisions? Really?

The players that you asert "really hate him" just signed on to a 10-year agreement leaving him - - or whomever is his successor - - in charge of the league and their punsihments.

[B]The revenues have grown under Goodell from about $8B when he took over to approximately $9.2B (estimated for 2011). That is a 15% increase over a period of time when the economy has not been in great shape.[/B]

Whether or not the players "respect" Goodell is irrelevant. If I worked for WalMart and did not respect Sam Walton's descendants, it would not matter even a little bit.

Under his watch, revenues are up and there is a decade of labor peace. Explain to me how either of those things might be "bad for the league".

Then enumerate all of his really bad decisions and tell me how important they are for the NFL when compared to increased revenues and labor peace.[/quote]

Fans don't care how much money the league makes. We care about the actual games. Under his watch too many games are being decided by calls. Too many game changing flags are being thrown. Guys are being fined ridiculous amounts of money. In that area he's done a terrible job. Goodell seems obsessed with fining guys and making a collision sport too safe of a sport.

Re: Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;825675][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/22/kickoff-rule-not-going-away-during-2011-season/"]Kickoff rule not going away during 2011 season | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

It has to go next year. One of the worst rule changes I've ever seen.