Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Here are 8 players picked within 10 spots after each of those 2008 Skins picks. They are all starters:

2-Curtis Lofton, LB
2-DeSean Jackson, WR
2-Ray Rice, RB
4-Tyvon Branch, FS
4-Jacob Tamme, TE
6-Geno Hayes, LB
6-Nick Hayden, DT
6-John Sullivan, C

Here's three starters that weren't even drafted: Gary Guyton, BenJarvus Green Ellis, and Danny Woodhead. All play for the Pats...

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=GMScud;769553]I hate looking back at the 2008 draft. Especially every time Desean Jackson catches a 50 yard pass.[/quote]Ditto. That we passed on Jackson twice to select Devin Thomas and Fred Davis shows what an idiot Cerrato was. 2008 was our worst draft ever.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;769569]To, like, the fourth round.

Which, admittedly, is a vast improvement from the past.[/quote]

Well, I could see Cooley gone, for a 3/4th so if we add that with the 5th and 6th we could get a 2nd. Of course if we gave up our 1st we could get 7 7ths, and than we could have wrapped up all the draft picks and still be home for dinner.

:cheeky-sm
:pimp:

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=NYCSkin;769577]Here are 8 players picked within 10 spots after each of those 2008 Skins picks. They are all starters:

2-Curtis Lofton, LB
[B]2-DeSean Jackson, WR
2-Ray Rice, RB[/B]
4-Tyvon Branch, FS
4-Jacob Tamme, TE
6-Geno Hayes, LB
6-Nick Hayden, DT
[B]6-John Sullivan, C
[/B]
Here's three starters that weren't even drafted: Gary Guyton, [B]BenJarvus Green Ellis, and Danny Woodhead. [/B]All play for the Pats...[/quote]

[B][/B]

All those guys make me sick to think that we could have had one of them and we got a bunch of average guys that aren't even on the team any more.

I still remember that 2008 draft real well.
I remember hearing from the news, espn, washingtonpost, this website, and other draft places "the redskins need to get that big wide receiver they've been missing" I also remember thinking "we should get calais campbell the freakish DE from Miami, or we should get DeSean Jackson because he sure is fast and explosive...size really doesn't matter" The I saw that we got Devin Thomas, and I was like "Ok nice! we got that big WR, now lets get that good DE or that fast WR to replace moss...but NOOOOO lets get ANOTHER FREAKING TE!!! what is this teams obsession with TE's?!?!

I remember also watching the draft and Chris Berman and them being like "whose going to draft this kid Danny Woodhead?" and when no one got him and they were showing his stats and plays I was like "he sure looks quick and like a guy that will show up and play week in and week out we should sign him to our practice squad."

I also remember this being the draft that we wanted to draft Jerod Mayo, but Belicheat beat us to him.


anyway, heres our draft from this year and who we should have drafted according to SI's don banks. [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/12/16/2010-nfl-draft-redux/index.html?eref=sihp]2010 NFL Draft redux has Dez Bryant to Raiders - Don Banks - SI.com[/url]

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Paintrain;769551]No argument that I'd rather have the chances at players with more picks but I didn't trust previous regimes with them anyways.

We hadn't had any 'busts', but only Rak and arguably Landry this year (only) have lived up to their draft slot. Unfortunately of our 1st and 2nd round picks since '02 only Taylor (RIP), Cooley, Landry, Rak and Williams have performed to their draft slot. That's pathetic. Since '00 we haven't drafted a single player who has been an impact player in the 3rd round or beyond. It's no surprise that regime after regime struggles to be successful.[/quote]

Actually Cooley was a third if I am not mistaken...I do agree with the overall point though

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=jamf;769575]What is your definition of a bust?
What level of play do you expect out of a second round linebacker?

I get the impression you want him to be Clay Matthews.[/quote]Competency = not a bust. There's a little bit of a curve at the top of a draft. A top five pick like Robert Gallery who needs to kick inside to have value is probably a draft bust. It's more acceptable for the 14th overall pick, such as Chris Williams, to kick inside to left guard in my mind. Maybe that's just me, since there's not much of a difference there, just about $15 million.

I think, if Rocky McIntosh was a competent but unspectacular starter, he could be labeled an overdraft. Considering his best days came in 2007, he's not an overdraft, he's a bust who has survived on a complete lack of depth.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;769579]Well, I could see Cooley gone, for a 3/4th so if we add that with the 5th and 6th we could get a 2nd. Of course if we gave up our 1st we could get 7 7ths, and than we could have wrapped up all the draft picks and still be home for dinner.

:cheeky-sm
:pimp:[/quote]Tight ends are the currency of passing offense. We should hold both the TEs and learn to get them both the ball. If they don't combine for 1,000 receiving yards and 8-10 TDs, that's on the coaches and the quarterback, not the TEs.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

I will also consider the fact that, with two down receiving years in a row, Cooley may simply be a player who is declining earlier than expected.

I do not think this is the case, I am merely watching for it. He might not be one of the 10 best receiving TEs in football anymore.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770001]I will also consider the fact that, with two down receiving years in a row, Cooley may simply be a player who is declining earlier than expected.

I do not think this is the case, I am merely watching for it. He might not be one of the 10 best receiving TEs in football anymore.[/quote]

Despite being under utilized this year his numbers are still on pace to be the 2nd highest of his career (catches, yards) so how is he declining exactly?

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770016]Despite being under utilized this year his numbers are still on pace to be the 2nd highest of his career (catches, yards) so how is he declining exactly?[/quote]Well, his catch rate, which peaked at 75% in 2008, dropped to 64% in 2009, and now sits around 60%, which is acceptable for a WR, but low for a TE.

That could simply be a product of his usage pattern, although, right now, his usage is "blocking" because we feel like we have better options to throw to, but no better options to protect with.

He also stopped scoring around 2007. Tight ends need to be red zone monsters. The last TD reception Cooley had inside the 10 yard line happened in [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200710070was.htm"]this game[/URL]. Or, not quite as recently as a Carlos Rogers pick six.

Early in his career, he was a money receiver from that close. It's safe to say now that Cooley is not a help to this team in terms of scoring TDs. We've struggled in the red zone for years, and unfortunately, our best red zone performance post-2005 came in the 10 games Cooley missed in 2009.

Still, we need to keep Cooley for what he can do, but he's not the guy you want to be throwing to deep in the red zone.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Interestingly, 6 of 7 of Fred Davis' career TDs have come from short distance, or inside the range I was looking for in terms of Chris Cooley's TDs.

These guys complement each other well, and though you might not have realized it, they're going to combine for more than 1,000 receiving yards this year. They're just not going to get near 8 combined TDs, and it's because of not enough Fred Davis at the goal line (though, he dropped that one on Sunday).

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Tough to blame CC when he's getting doubled in the RZ or when DM is skipping balls to him.

In 2008 his scoring dropped off, not sure you can say he started declining in just his 5th year. Scoring is a function of the offense and QB.

Witten doesn't score much either.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770028]Tough to blame CC when he's getting doubled in the RZ or when DM is skipping balls to him.[/quote]Well, it's been longer than just the McNabb-era. Cooley scored 3 TDs while Zorn was the head coach and Campbell was the QB. And Campbell threw to the TE religiously. So does McNabb, really.

I think, to an extent, he's been the victim of being a last option dump-off under duress, where before he was a first-option type. At least, I feel that's the argument against personal decline. Maybe he's just finally succumb to offensive suckitude around him.

Like I said, I think we need to have two good TE's to be a strong modern offense. Cooley and Davis are both very good TEs. But, who knows, Cooley may never have positive trade value again, and Logan Paulsen could be an excellent complement to Fred Davis capable of going for 350 yards and 4 TDs a season as a no. 2 to Davis. It could happen.

I would NOT trade Chris Cooley in this offseason. But if he's actually in decline, the Falcons, Dolphins, Packers, and Cardinals all need a strong TE to run their offenses. There might be a market for him. And Paulsen's presence makes me not afraid anymore of stretching ourselves thin at the TE position with a trade. With Yoder, that was a different story. He was bad. Paulsen, I think, is a good player who will be in his second season next year. We just can't afford to increase his role beyond goal line and short yardage if Cooley and Davis are both still here.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770028]Witten doesn't score much either.[/quote]Agreed. Although Witten has scored 6 times this year, he could be in decline as well, but he clearly is more of a blocker now than he was ever used as before. He's also a victim of too many weapons.

But I don't think he's a top three receiving option in the Dallas attack anymore.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

And I want to point out that Cooley's blocking this year has been beyond phenomenal. He's basically been of the quality of an offensive tackle out there. He's been a big part of the recovery of our OL's pass protection from 2008-09.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770028]Tough to blame CC when he's getting doubled in the RZ or when DM is skipping balls to him.

In 2008 his scoring dropped off, not sure you can say he started declining in just his 5th year. Scoring is a function of the offense and QB.[/quote]

I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. Definitely our best offensive player. That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;770065]I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. Definitely our best offensive player. That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.[/quote]

Well, I dont think anyone we'll get in the 5th will replace these guys. I am all for trading guys who are worthless or we're not going to bother using (Hayensworth, McNabb)...but if we got a guy like Cooley, who can actually fill a need, I dont see the point in trading them, if it's just going to open up another hole... I think one of our biggest mistakes was not unloading Davis last year, when his stock was pretty high.... I know you're not screaming for Cooley to get traded or anything like that...but I just dont see the point in trading him for the sake of getting a 3rd or 4th round pick; when he's one of the few picks that has panned out.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;770065]I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. Definitely our best offensive player. That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.[/quote]

Slowest relative to what? Corners and safeties?

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Matt Millen sold VC his Cliff Notes for the draft.........

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Davis had a much better 40 time than Cooley did coming out of college

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;770065]I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. [B]Definitely our best offensive player.[/B] That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.[/quote]Hey, he might very well be our best player this year on offense. That would say more about the Redskins than about Captain Chaos, but I don't want to act like "maybe in decline" is the same as "he sucks and has no value".

In the past (2006-2008), Cooley clearly was the best player on the offense. The fact that the offense is at all time lows and Cooley might NOT still be the best player would suggest a decline. But this all just could be a mis-usage of a guy who is still our best offensive player. I'm just throwing it out there.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770073]Davis had a much better 40 time than Cooley did coming out of college[/quote]

He could be faster than DG for all I know but he looks slow out there to me. Cooley gets upfield ten times quicker and more efficiently IMO.

86 is in my doghouse. :coach:

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Our offensive MVP this year, in my eyes, is Anthony Armstrong. Could have been Keiland Williams with a more inclusive role, could have been Trent Williams with better health, but AA is our best offensive player based entirely on the last 13 games.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;770077]He could be faster than DG for all I know but he looks slow out there to me. Cooley gets upfield ten times quicker and more efficiently IMO.

86 is in my doghouse. :coach:[/quote]

It's clear your biases are clouding your vision. I once looked down on Keiland as clumsy, but at least I took off the blinders soon enough.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770080]Our offensive MVP this year, in my eyes, is Anthony Armstrong. Could have been Keiland Williams with a more inclusive role, could have been Trent Williams with better health, but AA is our best offensive player based entirely on the last 13 games.[/quote]

My nod goes to Ryan Torrain. When he's been on the field he's been simply unstoppable. All to often I would see him run into what looks like a pile of defenders only to see him come out clean on the other side. Sometimes he would accomplish this by being elusive other times it was done by simply bulldozing opponents.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;770129]My nod goes to Ryan Torrain. When he's been on the field he's been simply unstoppable. All to often I would see him run into what looks like a pile of defenders only to see him come out clean on the other side. Sometimes he would accomplish this by being elusive other times it was done by simply bulldozing opponents.[/quote]

I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do next year. If he can just stay healthy he could put up some nice numbers.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Earlier discussion about the upcoming draft got me thinking. So as it stands right now 2011 Draft, Redskins have :

1 Round
2 Round
5 Round
5 Round (Saints)
6 Round
6 Round (Colts)
7 Round

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

The Redskins have a pick from the Colts, but I'm not positive it's a 6th rounder, might be 7th

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;770168]The Redskins have a pick from the Colts, but I'm not positive it's a 6th rounder, might be 7th[/quote]

With the Colts, even their 6th rounder is basically a 7th.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;769559]ok well .... this is why we hired Bruce Allen .... give him a f*cking 3 year plan ... i'm SICK OF BITCHING ABOUT THE PAST ... BLAH BLAH BLAH ... let's get this regime some time ... they are great in franchise mode on Madden 11 so i'm assuming this will work ? I won 2 Super Bowls w/ Shanny and McNabb ... the game doesn't lie people[/quote]Fine, give him a 3 year plan, but Shanallen already have a huge swing and miss with McNabb being one and done. There were some excellent Safeties still on the board when Philly used our 2nd rounder to grab one of them (Nate Allen). Taylor Mays was drafted a little later.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=SouperMeister;770219]Fine, give him a 3 year plan, but Shanallen already have a huge swing and miss with McNabb being one and done. There were some excellent Safeties still on the board when Philly used our 2nd rounder to grab one of them (Nate Allen). Taylor Mays was drafted a little later.[/quote]

Or we could have taken Terrence Cody, even though he was a late 2nd rounder. Instead, Baltimore now has TWO excellent nose tackles in Ngata and Cody and could let Ngata walk, trade him for something nice, etc.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

I think we can point to everything in the past for whats wrong with this team and I include the 4 yrs with Gibbs here. He should have stuck to racing

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Yet Gibbs did something no one else has been able to do under Snyder, multiple playoff appearances.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770265]Yet Gibbs did something no one else has been able to do under Snyder, multiple playoff appearances.[/quote]

And yet the roster we have today still has some players from his comeback tour. Those who left...declined fast. Certainly not what Seifert inherited in San Francisco.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;769412]They say you need to give a draft class 3 years to fairly judge it, well let's look at the 2008 draft and see where it stands.

Devin Thomas - gone
Malcolm Kelly - IR
Fred Davis - 2nd TE
Chad Rinehart - gone
Justin Tryon - gone
Durant Brooks - gone
Kareem Moore - starting
Colt Brennan - gone
Rob Jackson - PS
Chris Horton - backup

Moore is the only guy currently starting and he's nothing special, Horton has been a decent reserve/spot starter, Jackson is still hanging on by a string on the PS, and Kelly is on IR. Davis is the only one of the bunch who's at least show he has a bright future, when utilized of course.

The rest of the guys are gone.

And we wonder why we have no depth right now.[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]For comparison sake i thought it would be nice to look at Denver's and Tampa’s 2008 draft. We had the 21st pick while Denver had 12 so obviously you would think that the overall talent level would be higher but since we swapped so much and had 3 picks in the 2nd I think everyone minus Ryan Clady was basically obtainable (for comparison sake) for us. Tampa had the 20th pick.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Denver[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ryan Clady (lt) - An absolute beast LT – I hope TW does as well. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Eddie Royal (wr) – decent receiver [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Kory Lichtensteiger (c/g) – cut now w/ us[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Jack Williams (cb) – don’t really know anything about him I think he’s a nickel corner though[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ryan Torain (rb) – cut now w/ us[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Carlton Powell (dt) – blew his achilies in training camp his first year, most recently with the UFL[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Spencer Larsen (olb/fb) – seems like a Lorenzo Alexander type[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Josh Barrett (safety) – backup safety “stolen” by the patriots when he went though ir waivers[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Peyton Hillis (rb) – not sure what happened to him??[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Tampa[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Aqib Talib (cb) - beast corner with anger management issues [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Dexter Jackson (wr) – cut, bust receiver drafted because of his speed[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Jeremy Zuttah (c) – upgrade over Rabach [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Dre Moore (dt) – I remember a lot of people wanting him around here. We can still get him; hes on Jacksonville PS[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Josh Johnson (qb) – backup QB[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Geno Hayes (lb) – decent lb [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Cory Boyd (rb) – cut, Shanahan checked him out after he was released and subsequently released him. Currently in the CFL[/FONT][/COLOR]


Also something that really pissed me and a lot of other people off about our 2008 draft was that every single player earned a roster spot on our team. I remember being absolutely pissed when Leigh Torrance was released and Tyron was kept. I think the same was true with a lot of people when we kept Brooks over Frost, when Frost preformed a little better then Brooks in preseason.

I dont think this realyl tells us anything, other then reconfirming the notion that Shanahan knows how to draft RB's but i think its neat to look at.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=mlmpetert;771116][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]For comparison sake i thought it would be nice to look at Denver's and Tampa’s 2008 draft. We had the 21st pick while Denver had 12 so obviously you would think that the overall talent level would be higher but since we swapped so much and had 3 picks in the 2nd I think everyone minus Ryan Clady was basically obtainable (for comparison sake) for us. Tampa had the 20th pick.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Denver[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ryan Clady (lt) - An absolute beast LT – I hope TW does as well. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Eddie Royal (wr) – decent receiver [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Kory Lichtensteiger (c/g) – cut now w/ us[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Jack Williams (cb) – don’t really know anything about him I think he’s a nickel corner though[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ryan Torain (rb) – cut now w/ us[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Carlton Powell (dt) – blew his achilies in training camp his first year, most recently with the UFL[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Spencer Larsen (olb/fb) – seems like a Lorenzo Alexander type[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Josh Barrett (safety) – backup safety “stolen” by the patriots when he went though ir waivers[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][B]Peyton Hillis (rb) – not sure what happened to him??[/B][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Tampa[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Aqib Talib (cb) - beast corner with anger management issues [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Dexter Jackson (wr) – cut, bust receiver drafted because of his speed[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Jeremy Zuttah (c) – upgrade over Rabach [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Dre Moore (dt) – I remember a lot of people wanting him around here. We can still get him; hes on Jacksonville PS[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Josh Johnson (qb) – backup QB[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Geno Hayes (lb) – decent lb [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Cory Boyd (rb) – cut, Shanahan checked him out after he was released and subsequently released him. Currently in the CFL[/FONT][/COLOR]


Also something that really pissed me and a lot of other people off about our 2008 draft was that every single player earned a roster spot on our team. I remember being absolutely pissed when Leigh Torrance was released and Tyron was kept. I think the same was true with a lot of people when we kept Brooks over Frost, when Frost preformed a little better then Brooks in preseason.

I dont think this realyl tells us anything, other then reconfirming the notion that Shanahan knows how to draft RB's but i think its neat to look at.[/quote]

lolllllll.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Not too surprisingly, with Orakpo and Rocky hurt, and PD going on IR, Rob Jackson has been added to the active roster. I don't know what they see in him really, but I hope he can show something these last two games

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=mooby;771119]lolllllll.[/quote]

Poor fella must be a Josh McDaniels cocksucker.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=GMScud;769553]I hate looking back at the 2008 draft. Especially every time Desean Jackson catches a 50 yard pass.[/quote]

It could probably be a bit easier if

1) we had a guy that could hit a WR in stride on a go route or

2) we utilized a TE that can turn a 5 yard route into a 20 yard gain

speaking of playmaking ability, where have Cooley's opportunities been? maybe he wouldn't mind a trade so much now as he would've with the rumors last offseason

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;771208]Poor fella must be a Josh McDaniels cocksucker.[/quote]

Maybe he got traded? If he did I doubt it matters, it's not like he rejuvenated anybody's running game or scored a touchdown in like 8 straight games.