Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;771140]It was not driven by Snyder. Once Bruce Allen saw that there was an opening to make a move for McNabb he told Mike Shanahan he was potentially available and stated his case for why he thought the deal made sense and how he could get it done. I believe Allen had tried to get McNabb a couple of years ago in Tampa as well. Anyhow, Mike Shanahan gave the go ahead and that's that. So if anyone was the "driving force" it was Bruce Allen[/quote]

SS, any word on whether Kyle advocated for Rex? I mean we got him (I think before McNabb), but any idea if Kyle would've advocated for Rex as the starter?

And thanks for that tidbit about Allen advocating for McNabb.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;771142]remember after we beat dallas week #1 and were up 17 on the texans in the second half .. man I surely thought this season would shape up differently .. i have to admit, the sex cannon does seem to grasp the offense better ... i had blinders on with mcnabb and shanny saw this shit in practice and game day ... he knew this would be a tough political move but sometimes you gotta bite the bullet, admit your mistakes and move the F on .. McNabb is our JETS Favre experiment.[/quote]

I agree 1,000,000,000 % on everything u just said.

I thought we were gonna be 2-0 going to STL, man what a bad yr

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Locker would be a wasted pick. Sorry guys, but watching him, he isn't all that. Rex would be the man. Newton will be a bust or a walking problem for whoever drafts him.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=irish;771094]I dont think Rex is signed for next year so if he lights it up during his audition as a Skin he could be a hot free agent. If that happens is Rex someone the Skins would want to get into a bidding war for?[/quote]

HOLY HELL..........bidding war for Rex Grossman??
Makes me want to take a shower......

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;771143]SS, any word on whether Kyle advocated for Rex? I mean we got him (I think before McNabb), but any idea if Kyle would've advocated for Rex as the starter?

And thanks for that tidbit about Allen advocating for McNabb.[/quote]

I never heard, other than some report in the Washington Post, last week that Kyle never wanted McNabb here but I do know that he believed/believes Grossman would be just fine as a starter until the future of the franchise shows up. I remember last season reading how impressed the Texans were with how quickly Grossman picked up the offense

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;771145]Locker would be a wasted pick. Sorry guys, but watching him, he isn't all that. Rex would be the man. Newton will be a bust or a walking problem for whoever drafts him.[/quote]

I don't get why Locker is even being considered in the first round. He seems to be a 3rd or 4th round type of talent.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

I'm not big on Locker either, though I do see where people would be intrigued by his potential. But I think we may benefit from Locker having a difficult year because it's possible we could trade down, pick up another draft pick, and get Locker. Which perhaps isn't too bad. I like that option better than sitting where we are and taking Newton or even trading up for Newton.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;771077]Well I say there will be a season and I think we have 3 options at QB for the start of next season.

1.Rex Grossman
2. Jake Locker
3. Kyle Orton



I want to see what Rex does the next 2 games but I think the shanny's really like him and feel that he can lead this offense..

Locker is a good athlete that has been compared to JAY Cutler, Big arm and good size.

Orton is the wild card to me, Denver probably won't bring him back next season with Tebow.. I think he could run our system and he's been pretty good for 3 straight seasons now..[/quote]



But, the knock on Locker is that he cannot read defenses or read where the blitz is coming from. And, a word we have heard around here for some time, his throwing mechanics need coaching up.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;771140]It was not driven by Snyder. Once Bruce Allen saw that there was an opening to make a move for McNabb he told Mike Shanahan he was potentially available and stated his case for why he thought the deal made sense and how he could get it done. I believe Allen had tried to get McNabb a couple of years ago in Tampa as well. Anyhow, Mike Shanahan gave the go ahead and that's that. So if anyone was the "driving force" it was Bruce Allen[/quote]

Well, if true, then my question is this:

"Does Shanahan have the authority to fire Allen?"

Although Allen is the GM, "hired" Shanahan, and GM's traditionally outrank coaches, i think Shanahan's official title outranks Allens.

Allen's ALWAYS been a horrible personnel guy. I know everyone likes to cite his work in Oakland but he did not have final input (if any input at all) on personnel matters. In Tampa, his record is awful. And don't forget, he allegedly offered Haynesworth [B][I]more [/I][/B]money than Snyder and Cerrato, but Haynesworth decided to come here instead.

Now, we know he was the driving force behind trading a 2nd and 4th round pick for a QB who only played 13 games? Allen is the last person in the world I want Shanahan taking advice from when he's assembling a roster. Hopefully shanahan can fire him. If not, Snyder should offer him a "promotion" to handle the business side of things while a real personnel guy takes over at GM to assist shanahan in building a good team.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

I think Mallet and Luck are much better prospects than Newton or Locker. Locker effing sucks. I wouldnt mind taking either of the first two where we are. I think Luck is going to stay another year, unless Harbaugh goes.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;771149]I'm not big on Locker either, though I do see where people would be intrigued by his potential. But I think we may benefit from Locker having a difficult year because it's possible we could trade down, pick up another draft pick, and get Locker. Which perhaps isn't too bad. I like that option better than sitting where we are and taking Newton or even trading up for Newton.[/quote]



Locker has potential but does that translate into franchise QB? I don't like a QB that has, supposedly, the inability to read defenses. There are better draftee QBs in this year's draft that are better and may not require a top 15th pick.

Trade down and select one of the better options at QB.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Grossman starts the season, Locker starts by Halloween. This is a guess, not a "hope for."

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;771155]Grossman starts the season, Locker starts by Halloween. This is a guess, not a "hope for."[/quote]

pffft you know you want to say Bartel. Just scream it out, it's ok!

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;771139]Seems that Kyle wanted him less than Mike. I think it came down to an ego thing, [B]they thought whatever issues they saw on film could be corrected with their coaching. Turns out this old dog isn't interested in learning any new tricks.[/B]

Not buying that Snyder is driving any decision making. Knowing how much of a control freak Shanahan is... no way he would have come here unless he was guaranteed total control over the roster.[/quote]

You mean a 34-year-old, 5-time Pro Bowler, is not interested in a major overhaul of his mechanics? What a surprise!

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Locker is the 3rd best option. However barring trading up I would think both Luck (if he comes out) and Mallet will be gone when we pick. Remember Locker would have been a top pick last year if he had come out. He had a bad year on a crappy team, I dont hold that against him too much.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;771157]pffft you know you want to say Bartel. Just scream it out, it's ok![/quote]

What I want and what I think will happen are two different things. :cheeky-sm

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;771152]Well, if true, then my question is this:

"Does Shanahan have the authority to fire Allen?"

Although Allen is the GM, "hired" Shanahan, and GM's traditionally outrank coaches, i think Shanahan's official title outranks Allens.

Allen's ALWAYS been a horrible personnel guy. I know everyone likes to cite his work in Oakland but he did not have final input (if any input at all) on personnel matters. In Tampa, his record is awful. And don't forget, he allegedly offered Haynesworth [B][I]more [/I][/B]money than Snyder and Cerrato, but Haynesworth decided to come here instead.

Now, we know he was the driving force behind trading a 2nd and 4th round pick for a QB who only played 13 games? Allen is the last person in the world I want Shanahan taking advice from when he's assembling a roster. Hopefully shanahan can fire him. If not, Snyder should offer him a "promotion" to handle the business side of things while a real personnel guy takes over at GM to assist shanahan in building a good team.[/quote]

I don't believe Allen was with the Bucs when they made the offer to Haynesworth

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;771090]More of a think. I'd be in favor of picking up Henne's remaining contract year for a good price, but if we draft a guy in the first two rounds,[B] I'd prefer to just let him play from day one.[/B][/quote]

In general I'd agree. But with the level of pass blocking we've displayed this year I'd be pretty damn hesitant to put a rookie back there to get beat up for a whole season. Unless they can seriously address the line in a real way I'd rather a rook hold a clipboard for a year while Rex gets concussed out of the league.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;771152]Well, if true, then my question is this:

"Does Shanahan have the authority to fire Allen?"

Although Allen is the GM, "hired" Shanahan, and GM's traditionally outrank coaches, i think Shanahan's official title outranks Allens.

Allen's ALWAYS been a horrible personnel guy. I know everyone likes to cite his work in Oakland but he did not have final input (if any input at all) on personnel matters. In Tampa, his record is awful. And don't forget, he allegedly offered Haynesworth [B][I]more [/I][/B]money than Snyder and Cerrato, but Haynesworth decided to come here instead.

Now, we know he was the driving force behind trading a 2nd and 4th round pick for a QB who only played 13 games? Allen is the last person in the world I want Shanahan taking advice from when he's assembling a roster. Hopefully shanahan can fire him. If not, Snyder should offer him a "promotion" to handle the business side of things while a real personnel guy takes over at GM to assist shanahan in building a good team.[/quote]

I believe Allen was fired before Tampa offered Fat Al a contract. That was the Raheem Morris Bucs. Allen was fired with Gruden.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;771159]You mean a 34-year-old, 5-time Pro Bowler, is not interested in a major overhaul of his mechanics? What a surprise![/quote]

Not sure it was a major overhaul they were looking for, just cleaning up the little things mainly his footwork.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;771152]Well, if true, then my question is this:

"Does Shanahan have the authority to fire Allen?"

Although Allen is the GM, "hired" Shanahan, and GM's traditionally outrank coaches, i think Shanahan's official title outranks Allens.

Allen's ALWAYS been a horrible personnel guy. I know everyone likes to cite his work in Oakland but he did not have final input (if any input at all) on personnel matters. In Tampa, his record is awful. And don't forget, he allegedly offered Haynesworth [B][I]more [/I][/B]money than Snyder and Cerrato, but Haynesworth decided to come here instead.

Now, we know he was the driving force behind trading a 2nd and 4th round pick for a QB who only played 13 games? Allen is the last person in the world I want Shanahan taking advice from when he's assembling a roster. Hopefully shanahan can fire him. If not, Snyder should offer him a "promotion" to handle the business side of things while a real personnel guy takes over at GM to assist shanahan in building a good team.[/quote]

Shanny is also the team president, of course he can fire him if he wants.

Allen wasn't in Tampa when AH was on the move.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Well..... I picked Grossman, not that I want him. I think MS was looking for a QB that was better then Campbell and would make better decisions then Campbell. He found it, but I don't think McNabb is what he thought he would be either (ie; dirt balls, over throws, unable to scramble well, etc.). I'm just guessing but if Grossman has two more games where he seems to lead the team fairly well, even with the interceptions, I'm betting McNabb is let go due to cost.

I totally figured the team was resting McNabb so he wouldn't get hurt for next season and allowing the team to evaluate Grossman and Beck. Then after the game MS was saying something about playing Grossman for the next two games to evaluate him. Hmmm. Then today all the garbage comes out about McNabb and his ability or lack there of to run this offense. I doubt McNabb will be back. It's either Grossman or Beck since MS had said Beck was a QB they were looking at when he was coming out of college but someone else picked him up first. So it will be interesting to see what happens next year but I don't forsee McNabb here (another waisted trade), and unless we get a high draft pick in order to pickup one of the best QB's available I don't forsee us drafting someone to start next yr. So It's either Grossman, Beck, or perhaps someone MS has worked with in the past.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Firing Allen over McNabb is absurd. Allen was doing his job...a former pro bowl QB is available and Allen reports to Shanny telling him he can get him. Shanny has final say, all he has to do is say no thanks Bruce, McNabb isn't a great fit for our offense. Shanny approved the trade so it's on him regardless of who first mentioned it.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;771152]Well, if true, then my question is this:

"Does Shanahan have the authority to fire Allen?"

Although Allen is the GM, "hired" Shanahan, and GM's traditionally outrank coaches, i think Shanahan's official title outranks Allens.

[B]Allen's ALWAYS been a horrible personnel guy.[/B] I know everyone likes to cite his work in Oakland but he did not have final input (if any input at all) on personnel matters. In Tampa, his record is awful. And don't forget, he allegedly offered Haynesworth [B][I]more [/I][/B]money than Snyder and Cerrato, but Haynesworth decided to come here instead.

Now, we know he was the driving force behind trading a 2nd and 4th round pick for a QB who only played 13 games? Allen is the last person in the world I want Shanahan taking advice from when he's assembling a roster. Hopefully shanahan can fire him. If not, Snyder should offer him a "promotion" to handle the business side of things while a real personnel guy takes over at GM to assist shanahan in building a good team.[/quote]

As I understand it, Allen doesn't do any personnel, at least in terms of scouting. Allen does contracts & manages the business side. So far, I see things going much differently under Allen. e.g. he gave up little to get Brown & Carriker. Some of the old vets they brought in didn't get paid - Parker & Johnson. There's been a big emphasis on incentives in deals.

I will give Allen a pass on the Mcnabb trade. He probably had to offer more than he wanted to to get McNabb from a div. rival. I don't think that deal is any way indicative of Allen's trade negotiations. As for McNabbs "extension" it was pretty crafty, it gives the skins an out & at the same time pays McNabb well if he's on the roster. Also, leaves open the possibility of trading him.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Right now we've got 6 teams w/ worse records than us and 4 with the same record as us. Of course, alot is going to change but at best the 5 pick and at worst the 11th pick. I'd love to draft Andrew Luck, but he's going #1 most likely. Carolina, Denver, Buffalo and Cinci do pick ahead of us and you can bet one of those will draft Luck. Possiby we'll get a crack at the second best QB in the draft....Jake Locker.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=redsk1;771174]Right now we've got 6 teams w/ worse records than us and 4 with the same record as us. Of course, alot is going to change but at best the 5 pick and at worst the 11th pick. I'd love to draft Andrew Luck, but he's going #1 most likely. Carolina, Denver, Buffalo and Cinci do pick ahead of us and you can bet one of those will draft Luck. Possiby we'll get a crack at the second best QB in the draft....Jake Locker.[/quote]

McNabb & Big Al (plus maybe a late round pick) for the #1 pick!

Seriously though, since the McNabb benching I've been thinking of who would want he & AH in a package deal. Carolina seems crazy enough to go for it. I think Allen could pull something off like that.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;771167]Not sure it was a major overhaul they were looking for, just cleaning up the little things mainly his footwork.[/quote]

I would consider changing even just the footwork that McNabb has used for almost 30 years to be a major overhaul.

Put differently: If McNabb were interested in changing his footwork, he likely would have done so in Philly.

It seems to me that trading for a 34-year-old QB is like getting married: you have to accept the flaws of the person rather than seeking to change the person.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;771177]It seems to me that trading for a 34-year-old QB is like getting married: you have to accept the flaws of the person rather than seeking to change the person.[/quote]

Your not married are you?

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=freddyg12;771176][B]McNabb & Big Al [/B](plus maybe a late round pick) for the #1 pick!

Seriously though, since the McNabb benching I've been thinking of who would want he & AH in a package deal. Carolina seems crazy enough to go for it. I think Allen could pull something off like that.[/quote]

If one of the Williams Wall retires, this could be a tempting offer to Minny. Although with Childress gone, there's no incentive for DM. Maybe we can hustle Arizona out of their 2nd rounder?

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=player_httr;771178]your not married are you?[/quote]


lol :d

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;771177]I would consider changing even just the footwork that McNabb has used for almost 30 years to be a major overhaul.

Put differently: If McNabb were interested in changing his footwork, he likely would have done so in Philly.

It seems to me that trading for a 34-year-old QB is like getting married: you have to accept the flaws of the person rather than seeking to change the person.[/quote]

Not saying it's wrong or right, but it happens all the time. There's not a coach in the league that doesn't think they can turn someone else's garbage into a gem. Shanahan did a heck of a job with Plummer, probably figured he could do it with DM. Some guys are just more coachable than others, DM obviously wasn't receptive to it for whatever reason.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

At a minimum, Rex has worked himself into the training camp shuffle. I think the Skins will stop just short of parting the Red Sea to get Luck here.

They'll justify it as a franchise move, but the truth is Snyder is addicted to making big name off season moves and is master at manufacturing hope for the fanbase.

I think we should expect the unexpected.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=12thMan;771189]At a minimum, Rex has worked himself into the training camp shuffle. I think the Skins will stop just short of parting the Red Sea to get Luck here.

They'll justify it as a franchise move, but the truth is Snyder is addicted to making big name off season moves and is master at manufacturing hope for the fanbase.

I think we should expect the unexpected.[/quote]

I don't disagree entirely. Per my earlier posts I have thought about the way they might make a big trade like that. On the other hand, Allen is a fiscal conservative & that's a big part of his job here; to make good biz decisions. Considering that there may be a rookie salary cap similar to the nba, Allen may lobby against trading for a 1st round pick this year that will cost $50 mil+ signing bonus. Especially after the failed investment in AH & recent poor attendance at some home games.

But you're right about the potential for a big move, that's part of DS style. I just hope that Allen drives a hard bargain & doesn't give up valuable picks that are really needed after the McNabb deal.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

I voted some other QB in the NFL. It's safe to say we will have a new signal caller whether it be a collegiate player or an already established one. What happens with Grossman between now and the end of the season may play a part in the deciding factor, where we ultimately pick in the draft and whose available will also play a part.

I'm just not sold on Grossman despite the fact he played well enough yesterday in a loss, that in some ways it felt like a win. Providing he continues to show progress, I'm sure he will be given adequate consideration. He has two games left on the schedule against two formidable opponents that both have post season aspirations, let's see if it's progress or regress.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Locker is not the droid that you are looking for. Neither is Cam Newton. There are only 2 QB's in the draft that have NFL quality written all over them. Watch the Orange Bowl this year.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

As much as I don't care for it, I see Grossman holding down the fort until the young buck Shanny acquires this offseason is ready to take over.

The one name not thrown out there yet that intrigues me because of his predecessor's success is Pat Devlin from the Ass Kicking Chickens at Delaware. He has a similar style as Joe Flacco and has had success this year (68% Comp Pct, 22 TDs, 2 INTs) leading Delaware to the FCS (I-AA) Championship. If he can be had in the 2nd round (3rd if we can acquire a pick in that round), that might not be a bad option.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

Wonder what the poll results would have been had I posted this last Monday

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;771203]Wonder what the poll results would have been had I posted this last Monday[/quote]

I do too. Prior to yesterday Grossman was pretty much an after thought. It's amazing how a little success can totally change perspective.

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

And if Grossman goes out and tosses 4 picks against the Jags, all bets are off and he's a goat again. LOL

Re: Who Will Be The Redskins 2011 Opening Day Starting QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;771210]And if Grossman goes out and tosses 4 picks against the Jags, all bets are off and he's a goat again. LOL[/quote]

Thinking the 3 people who chose John Beck are ahead of the game!