Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I am not a lawyer and I never played one on TV. So, I defer to others with legal competencies here.

I also defer to SmootSmack as a person closely involved in sports journalism when it comes to the concepts of libel/slander/defamation.

With those disclaimers, the saga unfolding here will change dramatically the instant Dan Snyder sues [I]City Paper [/I]and/or the author for libel/slander/defamation. Because the instant he does that, the argument changes entirely from the tone of the disucussion ongoing here.

In court, it will have nothing to do with whether or not Danny Boy has changed his ways or has stepped back from football operations or his good intentions for the team and the fans. It will have to do with the legal standards for libel/slander/defamation. And here are two things that are involved in those legal standards:
[INDENT]1. Truth is an absolute/unassailable defense. If the article had accused Danny Boy of torturing kittens every other night for the last ten years to satisfy some sadistic urges that he cannot control, he could win a lawsuit over those charges - - UNLESS - - those charges happen to be true. A reporter can make any statements/accusations about anyone at any time with absolute immunity - - - if the statements/accusations are true.

2. Danny Boy is a "public figure" - - not just your average guy on the street. That has nothing to do with his bank account; it has to do with his being well known and well recognized by the public because of his actions in his life. For public figures, the legal standards also include a showing in a libel/slander/defamation action that the author or the publication had to have malicious intent in publishing the stuff.[/INDENT]
Remember, I am not a lawyer. Having said that, for a public figure to win such a lawsuit is no simple matter.

There are folks out there who say they know the author and that he withheld stuff from that article that he could not verify. Let me be clear, I do NOT know the author and I have no idea if those statements are true. However, if the statements of those supporters are correct, that would imply an awful lot of fact-checking on his part prior to publication. A lawsuit would determine just how much fact-checking was done here...

Reports also say that Snyder's lawyers have informed the [I]Washington Post [/I]to preserve any and all e-mails between the author here and [I]Post[/I] columnist Dan Steinberg. I have no idea if that is an important element of this matter or if this is just a threat to make it seem as if the Snyder lawyers are out for blood. But I will suggest the following:

If Danny Boy drags the [I]Washington Post [/I]into a lawsuit and thre is no basis for doing so, he will have violated an old precept of public relations:
[INDENT]Never pick a fight with someone who buys newsprint by the carload and ink by the barrel.[/INDENT]
This has the potential to get very interesting...

I wonder if the author and or [I]City Paper [/I]will file a counter-suit saying that any action filed by Danny Boy was a frivolous and capricious action? That might be fun too...

In legal proceedings there is a process called, "Discovery". Just a hunch here, but neither side would enjoy jumping through the "Discovery" hoops the other side will construct.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Snyder needs to worry about whether or not he's got the right guys doing the job, rather than worrying about what some writer in City Paper is saying. Grow some skin Napoleon.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;781882]Hey Smack!! Is this true??

Flavor of ice cream that Snyder left to thaw in defensive coordinator Mike Nolan’s office TWICE in one season to let the coach know the owner felt his schemes were simplistic, or vanilla. John Feinstein wrote that Snyder’s second delivery, after a loss to Dallas, consisted of “three giant canisters of melting 31 Flavors ice cream” and a note that said “I do not like vanilla.”[/quote]

Yes. It was stupid, he admitted it was, apologized. Water under the bridge between Snyder and Nolan.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I am sure there are extremes to all sides of the DS debate that are wrong or exaggerated.
Dan just needs to stay above it and not get in the gutter and roll around in the dirt with the idiots. He also needs to stop reacting out of an emotional angry situation.
He reminds a bit of a powerful politician that makes policy decisions based on popularity polls.
It amazes me that Dan was a huge Redskins fan during the Jack Kent Cooke era and did not pick up on some of things JKC did and did not do that worked well.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Dan Snyder is a walking nightmare for a PR firm. Add this episode to the litany of PR disasters associated with him. He should stick to what he knows--profiting yearly off a bad product.

When I read that article in November I thought it was funny. Did I believe every word in it? No. But Snyder's current response just validates so much of the intrinsic message of the McKenna piece.

So the media does not like you. Get over it. Fans don't like you. Get over it.

Snyder needs to concentrate on being respected over liked anyway. Start by getting the respect of the people in your organization. And gain their respect not through threats and the fact that you have a large wallet. Support them as a good business owner should. Spend your offseason doing something productive like installing a heated practice field or building a practice bubble near Redskins Park that the team desperately needs. If I am a player or someone else in the organization--I am wondering why billionaire Snyder is not knocking these facilities out and getting them done in the offseason...

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;781899]Yes. It was stupid, he admitted it was, apologized. Water under the bridge between Snyder and Nolan.[/quote]

It sure seems like this guy sure did put in a lot of time and effort researching and organizing all of this stuff. Sounds like this guy has a heck of a grudge...

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I think I a lot of the posters have similar views on this.

No matter what you say about how Snyder is much different, he still doesn't get it. If he did he wouldn't be responding to these kinds of articles.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;781907]It sure seems like this guy sure did put in a lot of time and effort researching and organizing all of this stuff. Sounds like this guy has a heck of a grudge...[/quote]

Well I don't know how much time he spent, but a lot of research was pretty poor

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Dan-Snyder-is-trying-to-get-a-newspaper-reporter?urn=nfl-315778]Dan Snyder is trying to get a newspaper reporter fired - Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;781910]Well I don't know how much time he spent, but a lot of research was pretty poor[/quote]

So most of that stuff is BS??

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;781913]So most of that stuff is BS??[/quote]

What stuff exactly? All the things in the article?

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

That stuff is not BS in the article. All of the examples given have new articles cited. Additionally, any real redskins fan can read those facts given and see immediately that it was something that Snyder would do.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;781915]That stuff is not BS in the article. All of the examples given have new articles cited. Additionally, any real redskins fan can read those facts given and see immediately that it was something that Snyder would do.[/quote]

A lot of the information is either simply not true or misleading.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/760520-post45.html[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I don't think the accuracy or inaccuracies in the article are the point. Dan adds fuel to the fire by acting this way. Trying to sue and get somebody fired is bringing NATIONAL attention to a small local story that is dead and buried in the past. Dan brought it back to life. Why? Ego? Dumb ego.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Defensewins;781919]I don't think the accuracy or inaccuracies in the article are the point. Dan adds fuel to the fire by acting this way. Trying to sue and get somebody fired is bringing NATIONAL attention to a small local story that is dead and buried in the past. Dan brought it back to life. Why? Ego? Dumb ego.[/quote]

Well I don't know how recently the call was made by Donovan to the paper's parent company. And I don't know that they'll actually sue, they just threaten to. It seems to me like Snyder was pushed over the edge one too many times by false information. But I agree he should have let it just blow over. Dave McKenna is not someone worth wasting your time over.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Until this team starts winning on a consistent basis, DS will get shit from everyone. Honestly he deserves some of it, we have been a damn joke since he bought the team

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;781928]Until this team starts winning on a consistent basis, DS will get shit from everyone. Honestly he deserves some of it, we have been a damn joke since he bought the team[/quote]

Some, but not all of it. And we were a joke even before he bought the team. We've been a losing franchise more often than not. We didn't go from Super Bowl champs in 1992 to Snyder owning the team. There were many years in between of poor play on the field and poor decision off it.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

SS Snyder is a smart man. Let's not make excuses for him about how he was led one way or another. He hasn't really matured as a owner for the Skins. If he has, then we are taking hella tiny baby steps.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Even if you took the win loss record and poor FO management out of the equation, my whole opinion of Dan Snyder fell in the toilet when he tried sue season ticket holders who fell into hard times due to the recession and defaulted on their season ticket obligations. Why squeeze people that have fallen on hard times?
Plus those season ticket holders give up their rights to the seats and Dan sells the seats to someone else. No harm no foul. It seemed really greedy and money hungry to sue them. That was a really poor business decision and just dumb.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

#1- I really don't know what Snyder has as far as a case. He would have to prove there were damages. How has the article damaged the Redskins? Loss of revenue? DS can't get a loan? DS can't get the quality coaches or players he would like?

#2- Snyder simply should have let it pass. It looked like an upset news reporter from the WP simply venting. Especially since DS has alienated the WP from getting any fresh news since he has been pissed with them for so long. Now that it has resurfaced with DS's intent to possibly sue the WP it makes DS again look like an idiot.

#3- I think DS would have been better served to have contacted the WP exec's and basically worked out some kind of agreement. The WP writers get first crack at some inside info as long as they stop their personal attacks on the Redskins owner. But everything is a two way street. You run a newspaper and it likes to run personal attacks on people then you have to expect your news men will either start getting alienated or cut off completely.

I'm not saying there isn't any truth to any or all of what the reporter wrote, just saying if you want to be one of the leading news agencies with the lates info on one of the top sports organizations in your area then you need to use a little common sense. The WP, I feel, needs more unbiased writers and apparently better editors to weed this type of crap out. Heck the writer wanted to write his little attack article he could have posted it on his own web page instead of either creating or expanding the rift between the two companies.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=hooskins;781930]SS Snyder is a smart man. Let's not make excuses for him about how he was led one way or another. He hasn't really matured as a owner for the Skins. If he has, then we are taking hella tiny baby steps.[/quote]

Agree to disagree

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;781823]I would say your statement is correct if applied ONLY to fans that watch on tv. That can't be said for people that are paying to go to games. What can't be denied by DS is that this article points out the chronology of his moves to make $. Nothing wrong w/making $, but from charging to watch practice to suing ticketholders, he's created an image problem for himself that exacerbates the fans anger & disappointment they feel from losing all these years. [B]Snyder IMO is in jeopardy of losing a LOT more ticket holders in the next couple years if things don't change. He may lose a lot even if things change.[/[/B]QUOTE]

Seems some are already on top of it.

[I]I love the Baltimore Raven fans. We're reaching out and trying to get more. We're trying to take control of this whole area. We'll take over Washington D.C. while we're at it. And head up into Pennsylvania and grab all those fans, and over to West Virginia and Virginia. Come on and be a Baltimore Raven fan because this is an exciting organization and exciting football team."[/I] --John Harbaugh

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/2011/01/john_harbaugh_well_take_over_w.html]The Early Lead - John Harbaugh: 'We'll take over Washington D.C.'[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I didn't realized how much of a little bitch Snyder really is...he can go suck a d*ck and hopefully choke on it.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Having worked for a newspaper, I agree. However, there is a very thin line between maintaining a good, professional relationship with your beat's parties while keeping strong journalism integrity. It isn't just black and white as what way to report and what way not to.

I definitely think the Sports Bog did go a bit overboard with the anti-Dan position. The blog had way too much coverage about "Signgate" a few seasons back. Perhaps there is some sort of conspiracy against Snyder, but like another poster was saying he could at least be more respected with substantiate change in action.

And to clarify, SS, I think he has shown change in the way he manages players(i.e. getting a better more qualified FO involved). However, the change I want to see, and was referring to in my earlier post is regarding how he deals in the realm outside player management. How he deals with fans, how he has matured as a owner, etc.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;781916]A lot of the information is either simply not true or misleading.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/760520-post45.html[/URL][/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]There are definitely a few misleading and out of context things, but i dont think any of the items could be characterized as "not true". And theres not lot of these misleading things by any means, its a few things with all the major stuff cited. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Plus the "article" is meant to be clever; its called "The Cranky Redskins Fan's Guide to Dan Snyder From A to Z (for Zorn)”. Its not a detailed account of mishaps Synder is involved in, it’s a summary of mishaps he’s involved in written with an obvious anti-Snyder sentiment. The writer isnt basing his opinion of Synder though misleading accounts, but rather piling on or furthering his case through a few speculations or out of context and misleading examples, which is okay in my opinion based on his established underlying tone. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Winning fixes everything. If the team is winning, the fans are happy, the players are happy, and the owner is happy. I can care less about how he treats fans, because that is not a priority to me. I'd rather he work on the team itself and get that fixed first. Then we can see how horribly wrong Snyder is to the fans.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=hooskins;781908]I think I a lot of the posters have similar views on this.

No matter what you say about how Snyder is much different, he still doesn't get it. If he did he wouldn't be responding to these kinds of articles.[/quote]


Thats exactly the way i feel. Hes still completely out of touch

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=saden1;781938]I didn't realized how much of a little bitch Snyder really is...he can go suck a d*ck and hopefully choke on it.[/quote]


Thats also exactly the way i feel

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Defensewins;781931]Even if you took the win loss record and poor FO management out of the equation, [B]my whole opinion of Dan Snyder fell in the toilet when he tried sue season ticket holders who fell into hard times due to the recession and defaulted on their season ticket obligations. Why squeeze people that have fallen on hard times? [/B]
Plus those season ticket holders give up their rights to the seats and Dan sells the seats to someone else. No harm no foul. It seemed really greedy and money hungry to sue them. That was a really poor business decision and just dumb.[/quote]

Well in all fairness to Napoleon that story was kind of blown up by the media. The women that was losing her home was going to lose it anyway, regardless of whether or not they Redskins sued her.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Kind of off the subject but I really wish Ted Leosis owned this team. The guy gets it. He's a true people person, and fan friendly who is very in touch with his customers.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=mlmpetert;781943][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]There are definitely a few misleading and out of context things, but i dont think any of the items could be characterized as "not true". And theres not lot of these misleading things by any means, its a few things with all the major stuff cited. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Plus the "article" is meant to be clever; its called "The Cranky Redskins Fan's Guide to Dan Snyder From A to Z (for Zorn)”. Its not a detailed account of mishaps Synder is involved in, it’s a summary of mishaps he’s involved in written with an obvious anti-Snyder sentiment. The writer isnt basing his opinion of Synder though misleading accounts, but rather piling on or furthering his case through a few speculations or out of context and misleading examples, which is okay in my opinion based on his established underlying tone. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

I'll agree with you, there is also the question of where this article was placed. What I'm referring to is I thought the WP had an "Opinion" section that may come out on Sundays. Clearly this is a biased opinionated article which would be perfect for that section and readers. If the editors had it placed in the everyday "Sports" section would be wrong.

I'm just guessing it was in the "Sports" section and the thought was to stir the pot and get more readers and again I'll say bad judgement on the editors.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=skinsguy;781944]Winning fixes everything. If the team is winning, the fans are happy, the players are happy, and the owner is happy.[B] I can care less about how he treats fans, because that is not a priority to me.[/B] I'd rather he work on the team itself and get that fixed first. Then we can see how horribly wrong Snyder is to the fans.[/quote]

Winning is the priority but any business owner should care about their customers.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SBXVII;781951]I'll agree with you, there is also the question of where this article was placed. What I'm referring to is I thought the WP had an "Opinion" section that may come out on Sundays. Clearly this is a biased opinionated article which would be perfect for that section and readers. If the editors had it placed in the everyday "Sports" section would be wrong.

I'm just guessing it was in the "Sports" section and the thought was to stir the pot and get more readers and again I'll say bad judgement on the editors.[/quote]

The article was in the City Paper not the WP.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I am glad someone authored this article, in fact, I was going to do it if it had not been posted.

The article opened my eyes to the real Daniel Snyder, not the Dan the fan Snyder who claims he just wants to win. It all seems to be motivated by pinching every nickel out the fans and not what some claim that "Dan Loves The Redskins" and would do anything to win.

I believe he does want to win but on the other hand, he wants every penny he can get out of this franchise through questionable marketing strategies. No previous owner of this franchise was so obvious as a barker-like flimflam man - do whatever it takes to turn a buck, no matter who it hurts.

At least that's the perception shared by many, including me.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=irish;781955]The article was in the City Paper not the WP.[/quote]


But the article in the WP linked the story.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=skinsguy;781944]Winning fixes everything. If the team is winning, the fans are happy, the players are happy, and the owner is happy. I can care less about how he treats fans, because that is not a priority to me. I'd rather he work on the team itself and get that fixed first. Then we can see how horribly wrong Snyder is to the fans.[/quote]

Ostracizing the alumni who could be guiding some of our guys is a fine example of building a good team. /sarcasm. Pat Burns helped Carey Price this year with a few choice words, yet Snyder would have NONE of such mentoring.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

We have an owner who thinks he knows what he is doing but hardly does. Success in one industry doesn't translate to success in another. Clearly Snyder make money, imagine how much more money the Skins could make if they won? Truth is no matter what Snyder does the Skins will always make money because of the market they are in. That is to say Snyder's marketing genius is overrated. I for one look forward to the day Snyder no longer owns the team. What a petty little man.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;781952]Winning is the priority but any business owner should care about their customers.[/quote]

Put a winning product on the field, and that's caring enough.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/daniel-m-snyder/jewish-group-urges-city-paper.html?wprss=redskinsinsider]Redskins Insider - City Paper responds on conflict with Daniel Snyder[/url]

[url=http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2011/02/02/to-our-readers/]Washington City Paper Responds to Litigation Threat by Washington Redskins Owner Dan Snyder - City Desk - Washington City Paper[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

He should have just let it go,"perception" is reality and like it or not the "perception of Dan Snyder is as a Jerrah Jones wanna be that keeps screwing it up.
Look I will be the first to admit the Danny doesn't get the credit he deserve for the good things he does ....such as ...everything to do with the Sean Taylor situation..ect.Any criticism I have thrown his way has been strickly football related.