Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791207]Shanny doesn't want to rebuild IMO that's the vibe I get when I read his quotes or his interviews[/quote]

I don't think so either. I think he want's to have a healthy mix of seasoned vets and younger players like he did during his SB runs in Denver.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

If we had to take one: Vince Young.

But, signing a FA QBs smacks too much of win now for my taste.

I'll go with a win soon plan.

Open competition in training camp or give John Beck, yeah John Beck, a legit shot at being the QB for Burgundy and Gold outright.

Focus top draft resources on addressing: RT, RDE, NT

Take advantage of the deep pool of middle tier QBs and draft 4th round prospect: Tyrod Taylor, Ricky Stanzi.

Maybe we get lucky and find our QB of the future if not the team has improved we've developed depth at the QB position and can look to further address the QB if need be next year with more valueable resources.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

Due to the signing of DM, I don't want to give/get anything from the Eagles.

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My first option is retain Rex and let him qb for the next 2-3 years and get a qb in next years draft to learn under him.
However, with the parameters set, I'd like Palmer if there is a drafted qb this year or Alex Smith if not. I think Smith could be good in MS system and could be a 10 year solution.

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[quote=Lotus;791205]Otherwise you are once again the voice of reason, Sammy.[/quote]That's scary. :food-smil

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[quote=Shadowbyte;791212]I don't think so either. I think he want's to have a healthy mix of seasoned vets and younger players like he did during his SB runs in Denver.[/quote]

That is rebuilding...isn't it? Rebuilding doesn't have to be a whole roster of 22 year old guys who grow together for 5 years and then get good. He is going to pretty much overturn the entire roster and fill it with more youth and older players STILL in their prime. That is rebuilding...

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=celts32;791238]That is rebuilding...isn't it? [B]Rebuilding doesn't have to be a whole roster of 22 year old guys who grow together for 5 years and then get good.[/B] He is going to pretty much overturn the entire roster and fill it with more youth and older players STILL in their prime. That is rebuilding...[/quote]

To the rational and logical fan, yes

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791207]Shanny doesn't want to rebuild IMO that's the vibe I get when I read his quotes or his interviews[/quote]

Hence the McNabb trade. I really wish he changed that attitude.

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[quote=Ruhskins;791267]Hence the McNabb trade. I really wish he changed that attitude.[/quote]


He won't he's older and doesn't want to rebuild which is why you hear Vince Young, Alex Smith being mentioned instead of just going w REX/Rookie

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

Just a reminder, Alex Smith speculation is just that. Speculation that I and a few others have based on what we think Shanahan would be interested in, not based on any information that I or anyone else has.

Vince Young, on the other hand...

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^^ You have to finish the sentence! I've been staring at the page waiting for the ending to appear and its not working.

PS, no matter who we get, FA, drafted rookie, or none of the above, we are not going to have the pieces, especially at QB, to make much noise as it is. Sure QB is one of if not the most important positions on the field, but with everything else being what it is, it doesn't make much difference anyway.

I don't know why some people act like getting a FA acquisition at QB will make a difference and put us back in contention next year. It won't. Fill the needs we have in the draft and FA, trade down if we can, and build for the future. None of these QB's are worth trading for.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;791268]He won't he's older and doesn't want to rebuild which is why you hear Vince Young, Alex Smith being mentioned instead of just going w REX/Rookie[/quote]

Rex doesn't get mentioned in the plans because he's Rex.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=celts32;791238]That is rebuilding...isn't it? Rebuilding doesn't have to be a whole roster of 22 year old guys who grow together for 5 years and then get good. He is going to pretty much overturn the entire roster and fill it with more youth and older players STILL in their prime. That is rebuilding...[/quote]

My definition of rebuilding is Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys, Bill Parcell's Patriots, Mike McCarthy's Packers, Raheem Morris's Buc's, Sean Peytons Saint's, Bill Polian's Colts. The nucleus of these teams were all young drafted players, with a few vets to provide some leadership and experience. That's the route I would like to see the Redskins go. All of these teams drafted their starting QB, starting WR, starting RB, and O-lineman.

They didn't sign an old QB, a no-name undrafted RB, a WR from the arena league, and hand me down o-lineman. Anyone who thinks our recent course of action is rational is beyond idiotic.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

People are begging for Orton & at one time he sucked, a change of scenery did him good maybe it would do the same for Smith or VY.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;791303]My definition of rebuilding is Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys, Bill Parcell's Patriots, Mike McCarthy's Packers, Raheem Morris's Buc's, Sean Peytons Saint's, Bill Polian's Colts. The nucleus of these teams were all young drafted players, with a few vets to provide some leadership and experience. That's the route I would like to see the Redskins go. All of these teams drafted their starting QB, starting WR, starting RB, and O-lineman.

They didn't sign an old QB, a no-name undrafted RB, a WR from the arena league, and hand me down o-lineman. Anyone who thinks our recent course of action is rational is beyond idiotic.[/quote]

What you describe is the more traditional way of rebuilding but if you turn over an entire roster in a couple of years that by definition is rebuilding. In this era of the NFL very few teams rebuild 100% through the draft. The packers may be the only team in that category since they are publically owned and rarely ever participate in free agency.

Most teams now adays use a combination of draft and free agency and the teams you mentioned panned out in large part becasue they hit on young QB's in the draft which is something I hope the Redskins can do. However, with the way the draft has been neglected in DC for a decade you better settle in for a 7 year wait if you want Shanny to rebuild this roster entirely through the draft. A more realistic scenario is using the draft plus some under 30 free agents to boost the overall talent level and hopefully get competitive in the short term and then over time sustain it with a more draft oriented approach.

One thing...Brees was a free agent so the Saints don't really help make your case.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;791303]My definition of rebuilding is Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys, Bill Parcell's Patriots, Mike McCarthy's Packers, Raheem Morris's Buc's, Sean Peytons Saint's, Bill Polian's Colts. The nucleus of these teams were all young drafted players, with a few vets to provide some leadership and experience. That's the route I would like to see the Redskins go. [B]All of these teams drafted their starting QB[/B], starting WR, starting RB, and O-lineman.

They didn't sign an old QB, a no-name undrafted RB, a WR from the arena league, and hand me down o-lineman. Anyone who thinks our recent course of action is rational is beyond idiotic.[/quote]

The Saints drafted Drew Brees? That is news to the Chargers.

I think that all of the teams you listed (especially Parcells' Patriots) relied on vets more than you give them credit for.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=celts32;791335]What you describe is the more traditional way of rebuilding but if you turn over an entire roster in a couple of years that by definition is rebuilding. In this era of the NFL very few teams rebuild 100% through the draft. The packers may be the only team in that category since they are publically owned and rarely ever participate in free agency.

Most teams now adays use a combination of draft and free agency and the teams you mentioned panned out in large part becasue they hit on young QB's in the draft which is something I hope the Redskins can do. However, with the way the draft has been neglected in DC for a decade you better settle in for a 7 year wait if you want Shanny to rebuild this roster entirely through the draft. A more realistic scenario is using the draft plus some under 30 free agents to boost the overall talent level and hopefully get competitive in the short term and then over time sustain it with a more draft oriented approach.

[B]One thing...Brees was a free agent so the Saints don't really help make your case.[/B][/quote]

Sorry, missed that at first.

Your comments are spot on.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=celts32;791335]What you describe is the more traditional way of rebuilding but if you turn over an entire roster in a couple of years that by definition is rebuilding. In this era of the NFL very few teams rebuild 100% through the draft. The packers may be the only team in that category since they are publically owned and rarely ever participate in free agency.

Most teams now adays use a combination of draft and free agency and the teams you mentioned panned out in large part becasue they hit on young QB's in the draft which is something I hope the Redskins can do. However, with the way the draft has been neglected in DC for a decade you better settle in for a 7 year wait if you want Shanny to rebuild this roster entirely through the draft. A more realistic scenario is using the draft plus some under 30 free agents to boost the overall talent level and hopefully get competitive in the short term and then over time sustain it with a more draft oriented approach.

One thing...Brees was a free agent so the Saints don't really help make your case.[/quote]

With the exception of Brees everything I laid out was spot on. I can easily replace the Saints and make my case with the Steelers. They took Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, Rashard Mendenhall, Santonio Holmes(yes I know Holmes was traded, but he did help them win a SB), Pouncey, in rounds 1, and took Mike Wallace and Emmanuel Sanders in rounds 3, and Aaron Brown in round 6. Notice none of them are free agents, all performed extremely well in the post-season.

I'm not saying what you're advocating is wrong, I would just prefer the Redskins to build their nucleus through the draft, especially our offense like the teams I mentioned did. I'm not against signing young free-agents like Sidney Rice and Jason Jones, but unrestricted free-agents with that ability at that age is extremely rare, so we can't depend on filling our holes through FA's.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

Palmer

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I cant believe anyone would even choose Young. He's just not a pro QB. I picked Palmer over Kolb because Palmer has proven to be a solid NFL QB working under the worst coach at any level of football.

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[quote=irish;791418]I cant believe anyone would even choose Young. He's just not a pro QB. I picked Palmer over Kolb because Palmer has proven to be a solid NFL QB working under the worst coach at any level of football.[/quote]

I cant believe anyone would pick Young no matter what the situation!

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

If Young had a solid head on his shoulders he would be dangerous.

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[quote=Shadowbyte;791397]With the exception of Brees everything I laid out was spot on. I can easily replace the Saints and make my case with the Steelers. They took Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, Rashard Mendenhall, Santonio Holmes(yes I know Holmes was traded, but he did help them win a SB), Pouncey, in rounds 1, and took Mike Wallace and Emmanuel Sanders in rounds 3, and Aaron Brown in round 6. Notice none of them are free agents, all performed extremely well in the post-season.

I'm not saying what you're advocating is wrong, I would just prefer the Redskins to build their nucleus through the draft, especially our offense like the teams I mentioned did. I'm not against signing young free-agents like Sidney Rice and Jason Jones, but unrestricted free-agents with that ability at that age is extremely rare, so we can't depend on filling our holes through FA's.[/quote]

I am not disputing any of what you are saying, the only reason this conversation started was because it was suggested that the Redskins will not be "rebuilding" unless it is done 100% through the draft. And that's just not true. In a perfect world the Redskins would have some nice young talent from the vinny years on board and a bushell full of draft picks stockpiled for the next few years and they would fill every hole with a young stud that they drafted. That's not reality though...the reality is that the cubbards are bare and we can either use only the draft and wait at least 5 years while the roster is remade or we can try and use a combination of under 30 free agents and the draft and try and get better sooner.

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[quote=44ever;791421]I cant believe anyone would pick Young no matter what the situation![/quote]


Thats what eagles fans said about Vick also.. Just saying

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[quote=skinsfaninok;791466]Thats what eagles fans said about Vick also.. Just saying[/quote]

Yes but was actually good at one time before the Eagles rolled the dice on him, Young has never been good.



Geez we need Chad Pennington on the poll as well!

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/31/chad-pennington.ap/index.html?eref=sihp]Chad Pennington tears ACL playing basketball - NFL - SI.com[/url]

Why be so stupid to play a pick up game when you are free agent and you are injury prone?

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[quote=mredskins;791470]Yes but was actually good at one time before the Eagles rolled the dice on him, Young has never been good.[/quote]Vince Young has [I][B]never[/B][/I] been good?
Hyperbole much?

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[quote=mredskins;791470]Yes but was actually good at one time before the Eagles rolled the dice on him, Young has never been good.



Geez we need Chad Pennington on the poll as well!

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/31/chad-pennington.ap/index.html?eref=sihp]Chad Pennington tears ACL playing basketball - NFL - SI.com[/url]

Why be so stupid to play a pick up game when you are free agent and you are injury prone?[/quote]

That's amazing. Poor guy has the worst luck in the world it seems...but it always pretty dumb of him to go out there and play ball when he's trying to prove to all teams this summer that his arm is healthy enough to play again

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[quote=mredskins;791470]Yes but was actually good at one time before the Eagles rolled the dice on him, Young has never been good.



Geez we need Chad Pennington on the poll as well!

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/31/chad-pennington.ap/index.html?eref=sihp"]Chad Pennington tears ACL playing basketball - NFL - SI.com[/URL]

Why be so stupid to play a pick up game when you are free agent and you are injury prone?[/quote]



VY has some rare talents he just hasn't had the mental aspect down maybe never who knows..


Chad has got to be the most fragile athlete in history besides grant hill.. Good luck to him

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I'm telling ya'll, if you want VY on the team, all you have to do is go buy the man a large economy size bottle of Paxil at Costco, and BOOM, WINNING!!!!

[IMG]http://www.hiphophater.com/wp-content/uploads/charline-sheen-winning.jpg[/IMG]

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none of them

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If not Young I wouldn't take any of these guys honestly, maybe Smith as a Wildcard but thats a push

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[quote=Mattyk;791423]If Young had a solid head on his shoulders he would be dangerous.[/quote]

So would a lot of players.

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[quote=30gut;791472]Vince Young has [I][B]never[/B][/I] been good?
Hyperbole much?[/quote]

Never in the pros and who cares about college.

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Donovan McNabb

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Vince Young is a sexy idea IMO, the guy has some extremely rare talents as an athlete, had good pocket presence and can make something out of nothing BUT he's not a good passer, so for a season or 2 while a rookie learns the league, I'm ok w having young to step in.. Hey he cant be any worse than rex

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[quote=mredskins;791470]Young has never been good.
[/quote][quote=irish;791539]Never in the pros and who cares about college.[/quote]Rah rah Vince Young has [I][B]never[/B][/I] been good rah rah arrgh!

To believe that Vince Young has [I][B]never[/B][/I] been good you're forced to disregard Win/Loss: [B][COLOR="Olive"]26-13[/COLOR][/B]

You would also have to disregard his 2010/9 stats:

[B][COLOR="olive"]2010-59.6 comp%-10 TDs-3 INTs-8.0 YPA-98.6 QBR
24% of rushes result in 1st downs/25 atts[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR="olive"]
2009-58.7 comp%-10 TDs-7 INTs-7.3 YPA-82.8 QBR[/COLOR][/B]

You would have to disregard him being a [B][I][COLOR="olive"]2-Time Pro-Bowler[/COLOR][/I][/B].

There is too much you have to disregard from a football stand point that preclude the statement Vince Young has never been good from being true to the point that it makes you lose credibility.

Now, if you want to say Vince Young [I]appears[/I] to be a bad fit for Kyle's offense, I would agree.

If you want to say that Vince Young is thin skinned, I would agree.

On the flip side you would also have to question wether the FO other then owner were ever really 100% behind Vince and what type of impact that has on a QB or team leader.

The HC-OC/QB coach relationship is like a boxer/trainer.
If the trainer doesn't have faith in the boxer you greatly limit that's boxer's potential.

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Sorry but 30GUT is right on about young.. Bottom line is the guy is a winner and was in college also, stats are nice but it's all about winning

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until Young gets his head on straight,I say NO!.If the skins draft a QB #1 I thought the plan was bring back grossman until the rookie was ready?Palmer is not leaving cincy,hasselback won't leave seattle,kolb is over priced.

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bulger and smith may be a fit if the price is right.

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All of them are suspect, but Kolb at this point of time is the best choice. If this poll was given 5 years ago, I would have said Bulger. Young would have had to have one more season back as a starter to convince me he has matured into a bona fide starter.