Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;806139]Par for the course with you, a quote/link here, a quote/link there that doesn't address the issue or prove/refute anything, then some name-calling or letting everyone know how much wiser you are than anyone with an opposing view. [/quote]

[quote=Chico23231;806141]yeah thats a trend[/quote]

Excuse me? How or where have I inferred that I'm wiser than everybody else?

As opposed to linking "facts" that aren't facts nor support anything that a person is arguing?

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;806144]Something about Huntsman just doesn't sit right with me. Can't put my finger on it. Nothing negative or anything like that, I just want to see how he handles himself on the big stage.[/quote]

The only thing I can think of is his "yeah, global warming is real but I won't and can't do anything about it" stance. He has all the political and business background, good looks, and "moderation" in his arsenal. Formidable!

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;806140]I wouldn't pay too much attention to any of these polls - good or bad. If the economy starts to tick up a little, you'll see his numbers jump up again. So it's really just a snapshot of where people are at that particular moment. [/quote]agree, way too early.

[quote]Secondly, I think when the debates really get rolling we'll see how the public feels about Mitt Romney. Bin laden bounce or not, [B]Obama has the advantage on foreign policy and national security.[/B][/quote]Not sure about an advantage, but at worst case FP & NS are even with the GOP (not necessarily in real experience, but public perception), which is a huge positive for Obama.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806149]Excuse me?[B] How or where have I inferred that I'm wiser than everybody else?[/B][/quote]

I am not going to hunt down all the posts, but lets just say a common thread through many of your "opinion" posts is that people with opinions/values different from yours just don't get "it" and are simply sheep for the slaughter.

Oh wait... I don't have to go hunting at all:

[quote=NC_Skins;806148]Obama hasn't come through on any of his main campaign promises, and I'll never vote for him based off of his performance. I certainly would never vote for those idiots from the GOP either. [B]Like I said, how people can still vote for the GOP with the state our economy is in proves that people will believe anything.[/B][/quote]

You, of course, are so much smarter, wiser and clevererer than [I]everyone[/I] who votes for the GOP, or who sides with the owners, etc., etc.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806148]Obama hasn't come through on any of his main campaign promises, and [B]I'll never vote for him based off of his performance.[/B] I certainly would never vote for those idiots from the GOP either. Like I said, how people can still vote for the GOP with the state our economy is in proves that people will believe anything.[/quote]Maybe I'm just missing your answer, but the bolded point sounds like you won't vote for him in 2012, since he had no prior Presidential performance in 2008 and you're using a future tense. You don't mention if you voted for Obama in 2008. Just wanting to clearly understand your response.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=saden1;806150]The only thing I can think of is his "yeah, global warming is real but I won't and can't do anything about it" stance. He has all the political and business background, good looks, [B]and "moderation" [/B]in his arsenal. Formidable![/quote]

Disclaimer: I know nothing about Huntsman other than what 12th wrote and brief Wiki look (Yes, yes, it's worse than cliff notes but I just wanted the sound bite for now).

I am not sure "moderation" cuts it as a galvanizing electoral call. Obviously, it depends on his charisma - if he can get people excited about him and his positions. Again, I know nothing about the man, is he someone who, beyond good looks, can electrify a crowd with his ideas? Lacking this, i just don't see him overcoming the polarizing arguments likely to occur in the primary (can he get enough support from the solid right to win the nomination?)

We all know just how ineffective the rally cry of "Stay Medium!" is.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;806038]Here's your annointed one.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws"]YouTube - ‪Obama Claims He's Visited 57 States‬‏[/URL]

I would say most 3rd graders know there are 50 states. And I would assume you voted for Obama...[/quote]

Sooo.....I guess it's true? Barry O is....not smarter than a third grader?

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806148]I've not inferred his policies aren't left enough. I just said I find it ironic that Republicans are bashing Obama, when his policies are nearly identical to that of Bush.

Obama hasn't come through on any of his main campaign promises, and I'll never vote for him based off of his performance. I certainly would never vote for those idiots from the GOP either. Like I said, how people can still vote for the GOP with the state our economy is in proves that people will believe anything.[/quote]

What, he's delivered on a ton of campaign promises. What are you talking about?

Healthcare Reform
Financial Services Reform
DADT
Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)
Lilly Ledbetter Act (Fair pay act for women)
Umm...he said if had actionable intelligence to kill bin Laden, even if he was hiding in Pakistan, he'd do so without permission.
START treaty w/Russia. Reducing nukes by a third. Huge f*****in deal.

This is just off the top of my head.

A few have slipped through the cracks, but he'll get another bite at the apple.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;806159]Maybe I'm just missing your answer, but the bolded point sounds like you won't vote for him in 2012, since he had no prior Presidential performance in 2008 and you're using a future tense. [B]You don't mention if you voted for Obama in 2008. [/B]Just wanting to clearly understand your response.[/quote]

I, too, noticed his carefully crafted answer and avoidance.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

Who cares if he did... that doesn't mean he supports him blindly

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806148]I've not inferred his policies aren't left enough. [B]I just said I find it ironic that Republicans are bashing Obama, when his policies are nearly identical to that of Bush.[/B][/quote]

I would respectfully disagree. Regardless of your opinions as to either of them, to suggest, strictly from a [I]policy[/I] stand point, that Obama and Bush are interchangeable is just plain obtuse.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;806159]Maybe I'm just missing your answer, but the bolded point sounds like you won't vote for him in 2012, since he had no prior Presidential performance in 2008 and you're using a future tense. You don't mention if you voted for Obama in 2008. Just wanting to clearly understand your response.[/quote]



Question: Why does me voting for him in 2008 have any relevance on anything in this discussion?


If I did vote for him, I wouldn't vote for him again based off of his performance now.

If I didn't vote for him, I wouldn't vote for him in the future based off his performance now.


I think it's obvious that he's doing a poor job with everything, even though he's getting much of the blame for the economy that wasn't his doing. He's not doing much to help it either with the additional wars.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;806165]I, too, noticed his carefully crafted answer and avoidance.[/quote]

You dumb-assed GOP guys must have missed it.........

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;806168]Who cares if he did... that doesn't mean he supports him blindly[/quote]

True.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

Unless NC is one of the declared or potential GOP candidates for President, then this thread shouldn't be about him

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

and moving on ....

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806149][B]Excuse me? How or where have I inferred that I'm wiser than everybody else?[/B]

As opposed to linking "facts" that aren't facts nor support anything that a person is arguing?[/quote]"Turning the blind eye just for sake of waving your elephant/donkey flag around to go along with the crowd isn't my thing."

"Formidable ticket? ...lol Only if dumbasses are voting."

"It's a shame you guys can make this much noise over something that counts. Politics. We might would actually get something accomplished."

"Stop with this stupid Repubs vs Libs shit. It's ignorant and you are in fact a big reason why the US is failing if you keep supporting these idiots."

"I hold no affiliation to a party unlike the rest of the moronic Americans out there."

"If you don't think our foreign policy isn't the reason we are hated, then you seriously don't need to be voting."

I'll close with a quote from President Lincoln, ""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;806164]What, he's delivered on a ton of campaign promises. What are you talking about?

Healthcare Reform
Financial Services Reform
DADT
Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)
Lilly Ledbetter Act (Fair pay act for women)
Umm...he said if had actionable intelligence to kill bin Laden, even if he was hiding in Pakistan, he'd do so without permission.
START treaty w/Russia. Reducing nukes by a third. Huge f*****in deal.

This is just off the top of my head.

A few have slipped through the cracks, but he'll get another bite at the apple.[/quote]


The major issues with me are:


1) Cutting military spending, bringing troops home (has not done...in fact, started another conflict)

2) Closing torture camps (not only left Gitmo open, has managed to open another one)

3) Didn't repeal the Patriot Act, which are taking civil liberties from the US citizens.

4) Hasn't done dick with economy or even tried. Except he did renew tax cuts for the ultra rich!!

5) Jury is still out on that "Healthcare Reform".

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

So, back to the thread and Huntsman in particular -

Given his involvement with the Obama administration - tangential but existent nonetheless. How does he overcome those with a more direct appeal to the solid right of center? I believe he has been promoted/complimented by McCain but, frankly, I am not sure that is a particularly ringing endorsement.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806178]The major issues with me are:


1) Cutting military spending, bringing troops home (has not done...in fact, started another conflict)

2) Closing torture camps (not only left Gitmo open, has managed to open another one)

3) Didn't repeal the Patriot Act, which are taking civil liberties from the US citizens.

4) Hasn't done dick with economy or even tried. Except he did renew tax cuts for the ultra rich!!

5) Jury is still out on that "Healthcare Reform".[/quote]

Fair enough. I want to keep this thread on track. I agree with one of your five.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;806177]"Turning the blind eye just for sake of waving your elephant/donkey flag around to go along with the crowd isn't my thing."

"Formidable ticket? ...lol Only if dumbasses are voting."

"It's a shame you guys can make this much noise over something that counts. Politics. We might would actually get something accomplished."

"Stop with this stupid Repubs vs Libs shit. It's ignorant and you are in fact a big reason why the US is failing if you keep supporting these idiots."

"I hold no affiliation to a party unlike the rest of the moronic Americans out there."

"If you don't think our foreign policy isn't the reason we are hated, then you seriously don't need to be voting."

I'll close with a quote from President Lincoln, ""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."[/quote]


You and JoeRedskins are right. I guess there is some of that tone in my posts and I apologize. It's hard when you see people blinded by stuff that corporate media spews(all types) and they keep doing the same things and voting the same way over and over and over again hoping for different results. I think the two party system is a sham at this point. Neither one of the group is going to fix our country.

No fair though, that comment about Bachman was true though. Come on man, you have to question anybody supporting either her or Palin. My parents are Republicans and they even agree....lol


[quote=JoeRedskin;806169]I would respectfully disagree. Regardless of your opinions as to either of them, to suggest, strictly from a [I]policy[/I] stand point, that Obama and Bush are interchangeable is just plain obtuse.[/quote]

If I said they were interchangeable, it was in jest. I think Obama's policies so far have pretty much in line with the policies that Bush rode out on.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

JoeRedskins, I don't think his affiliation with President Obama will hurt him that much, if at all. My sense is Huntsman won't say anything really negative about Obama and that just won't fly in a Republican primary. Not this time around. And if you had to choose between him and Mitt, it's the devil you know (no pun intended) vs. the devil you don't.

He'll create some buzz, the media will jock him and all, I just don't think it's his time. People are going to be surprise when they find how moderate this guy is. I honestly don't think he'll make it out the primaries.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;806160]Disclaimer: I know nothing about Huntsman other than what 12th wrote and brief Wiki look (Yes, yes, it's worse than cliff notes but I just wanted the sound bite for now).

I am not sure "moderation" cuts it as a galvanizing electoral call. Obviously, it depends on his charisma - if he can get people excited about him and his positions. Again, I know nothing about the man, is he someone who, beyond good looks, can electrify a crowd with his ideas? Lacking this, i just don't see him overcoming the polarizing arguments likely to occur in the primary (can he get enough support from the solid right to win the nomination?)

We all know just how ineffective the rally cry of "Stay Medium!" is.[/quote]

Working across the party line is a big selling point for a lot of folks. Obama was medium and he sold himself as such relative to other democratic candidates and when McCain was his general election opponent guess which of the two was closer to the happy medium line? It certainly wasn't McCain. Look, even Bush sold himself as a Compassionate Conservative back in 1999, Clinton sold himself as a moderate too.

Time will tell if Huntsman has or can learn the required charismatic delivery to become president but I wouldn't bet against him in that regard. I would bet against him getting the nomination based on the probability that the GOP base will select Palin/Romney type as their nominee. Obama will easily dispatch Palin/Romney type candidates.

This is what a Republican use to look like:

[YT]9VIrb0sQOEQ[/YT]

[YT]llBlCHU9EdU[/YT]

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;806168]Who cares if he did... that doesn't mean he supports him blindly[/quote]I asked the question and I didn't say he supported Obama blindly.

But when someone responds to a post and says that essentially I'm a "dumbass", then in another post "not observant" because I made an educated assumption, that I fully believe is correct. Either man up and tell me I'm wrong or say, "I don't want to answer." (or say you were too young to vote). That's all.

But I get SS's point :bdh:

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;806185]I asked the question and I didn't say he supported Obama blindly.

But when someone responds to a post and says that essentially I'm a "dumbass", then in another post "not observant" because I made an educated assumption, that I fully believe is correct. Either man up and tell me I'm wrong or say I don't want to answer (or say you were too young to vote). That's all.

But I get SS's point :bdh:[/quote]

I just said you weren't observant on my views. (which I didn't think you are) I apologize for making the remarks about being a dumbass if you are still voting for the GOP. I personally think we should give both the parties the finger and elect something new.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806181]You and JoeRedskins are right. [B]I guess there is some of that tone in my posts and I apologize. [/B] It's hard when you see people blinded by stuff that corporate media spews(all types) and they keep doing the same things and voting the same way over and over and over again hoping for different results. I think the two party system is a sham at this point. Neither one of the group is going to fix our country.

No fair though, that comment about Bachman was true though. Come on man, anybody pulling for her or Palin are about as dumb as they come. My parents are Republicans and they even agree....lol[/quote]

Fair enough. Apology accepted.

As to Palin, I agree - she just sounds like a moron most of the time. That said, those who discount her appeal or who credit it simply to morons attracting morons are,IMO, missing the point. At its essence, the support for Palin and her ilk comes from those disaffected by the intellectual arrogance of many on the left - the concept that "the government" is (or should be) an entity separate from the governed and the people w/in it know what's best for everyone else. I may be way off but, in many ways, just as Bush seemed to denigrate the role of the govt., it seems many on the left see it as the cure-all.

I know their will be vociforous denials and claims of countervailing arrogance from the right. I agree and, in fact, think Palin is the polar opposite of "intellectual" arrogance. To me, she is the "you don't need to be smart or highly educated to provide good govt." candidate. [I]To some degree[/I], she is right. Unfortunately, it comes across more like "We don't want no 'smart' people in government."

For all the moronic statements Palin makes (and there are many), underlying them is the concept government should be of and by the people. This rings true to a lot of people.

Oh yeah, ... And everyone should have guns.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806187]I just said you weren't observant on my views. (which I didn't think you are) I apologize for making the remarks about being a dumbass if you are still voting for the GOP. I personally think we should give both the parties the finger and elect something new.[/quote]We're all good, appreciate it. I do agree with your last sentence, unfortunately the claws of both parties are embedded in too deep.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with the two party system that an informed and attentive electorate couldn't fix.

Oh wait, I think I see the problem ...

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

You have to know "things" or at the very least have intellectual curiosity to run a country. This isnt an elitist view but a bare minimum requirement to be an effective leader. Btw, we have never had a president "from the people" and of all the presidents we have had the founders were the most elite.

We want people smarter than us in leadership positions. That is the nature of things and preferable.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=saden1;806215][B]You have to know "things" or at the very least have intellectual curiosity to run a country. [/B]This isnt an elitist view but a bare minimum requirement to be an effective leader. Btw, we have never had a president "from the people" and of all the presidents we have had the founders were the most elite.

[B]We want people smarter than us in leadership position[/B]. That is the nature of things and preferable.[/quote]

True enough. It's the concept that there is a specific way to get that knowledge or to be smarter (through govt. service, graduate degrees, etc.) that the [I]perceived[/I] elitism kicks in.

And yes ... I agree completely with your statement as to the presidents.

Again, it's just my perception as to why Palin has such a dedicated following. Dumb people exist and each candidate has their fair share of them on their side. While much of Palin's support (maybe the vast majority) comes from the "not so deep thinkers" crowd, to suggest that you have to be a moron to find her message attractive is, to me, short sighted - certainly for anyone who wants the Republican nomination.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;806221]True enough. It's the concept that there is a specific way to get that knowledge or to be smarter (through govt. service, graduate degrees, etc.) that the [I]perceived[/I] elitism kicks in.

And yes ... I agree completely with your statement as to the presidents.

Again, it's just my perception as to why Palin has such a dedicated following. Dumb people exist and each candidate has their fair share of them on their side. While much of Palin's support (maybe the vast majority) comes from the "not so deep thinkers" crowd, to suggest that you have to be a moron to find her message attractive is, to me, short sighted - certainly for anyone who wants the Republican nomination.[/quote]

You don't have to be dumb to support Palin and I would argue that the expectation on the left isn't that you go to the best schools in the country but rather you can freely discuss any topic related to governing without guttering the discussion with nonsensical statements. Trump is a perfect example of someone who couldn't possible lead with statements like "you're not gonna raise that ****ing' price!" Frankly such statements and much of what Palin says are deeply insulting much in the same way as someone spitting in your face. I suppose we could strive to be less easily offended much like Palin's supporters.

Speaking of someone who is insulting, Anthony Weiner is another politician who couldn't possibly lead not because of his indiscretions but because of this:

[YT]V0OGBbrHA3M[/YT]

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

I really wish Gary Johnson would gain some traction. He was voted in for two terms in a state that is 2 to 1 democrat, is pro-choice (through the first trimester), a dedicated spending slasher, wants to end the wars, quit the expensive, tax-consuming "war" on marijuana, and has the business acumen to get the economy rolling again.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;806268]I really wish Gary Johnson would gain some traction. He was voted in for two terms in a state that is 2 to 1 democrat, is pro-choice (through the first trimester), a dedicated spending slasher, wants to end the wars, quit the expensive, tax-consuming "war" on marijuana, and has the business acumen to get the economy rolling again.[/quote]

[url=http://www.newworldradical.com/2011/06/gary-johnson-not-invited-to-new.html]Gary Johnson Not Invited to New Hampshire GOP Debate ~ New World Radical[/url]

Do you really think Johnson would end the wars any faster than Obama? I doubt it...I seriously doubt it. He wouldn't end it any faster than the Generals on the ground would permit it.


[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/28/us-obama-iraq-idUSTRE67R0K420100828]Obama says Iraq war is ending, his promise is kept | Reuters[/url]

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;806315][url=http://www.newworldradical.com/2011/06/gary-johnson-not-invited-to-new.html]Gary Johnson Not Invited to New Hampshire GOP Debate ~ New World Radical[/url]

Do you really think Johnson would end the wars any faster than Obama? I doubt it...I seriously doubt it. He wouldn't end it any faster than the Generals on the ground would permit it.


[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/28/us-obama-iraq-idUSTRE67R0K420100828]Obama says Iraq war is ending, his promise is kept | Reuters[/url][/quote]

Well, considering the generals work for the president, if he says it's time to leave, then it's time to leave. And yes, considering we can't afford the wars anymore, I'd place my bets on both Johnson and/or Ron Paul getting out as fast as possible.

If that's true about the debate, then it's over for Johnson. And so much for the Tea Party... if they really want to roll back government and slash spending, Johnson and Ron Paul should be gaining momentum. Instead they're salivating over Palin and Bachmann.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[url=http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56549.html]Gary Johnson: ‘Very jaded’ from debate exclusion - Dan Hirschhorn - POLITICO.com[/url]

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

I'm not entirely sure why no one is talking about Johnson either. I would think a lot of Republicans can get behind him.

[QUOTE=saden1;806241]You don't have to be dumb to support Palin and I would argue that the expectation on the left isn't that you go to the best schools in the country but rather you can freely discuss any topic related to governing without guttering the discussion with nonsensical statements. Trump is a perfect example of someone who couldn't possible lead with statements like "you're not gonna raise that ****ing' price!" Frankly such statements and much of what Palin says are deeply insulting much in the same way as someone spitting in your face. I suppose we could strive to be less easily offended much like Palin's supporters.

Speaking of someone who is insulting, Anthony Weiner is another politician who couldn't possibly lead not because of his indiscretions but because of this:

[YT]V0OGBbrHA3M[/YT][/QUOTE]

Agreed. Just look at some of the videos of her supporters. They are uneducated and just plain dumb. They are the people that think Obama is an African born Muslim. Seriously?? Talk about uneducated and misinformed.

I don't see why the party of economic conservatives have to subject themselves to stupidity (social conservatism). Ah the two party system.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

[quote=hooskins;806488]Agreed. Just look at some of the videos of her supporters. They are uneducated and just plain dumb. They are the people that think Obama is an African born Muslim. Seriously?? Talk about uneducated and misinformed.

I don't see why the party of economic conservatives have to subject themselves to stupidity (social conservatism). Ah the two party system.[/quote]

The party has come a long way from William F. Buckley and Barry Goldwater -- today, they seem to wear simple-minded ignorance as a badge of honor. Intelligence and reflective thought is something to be shunned as far as they're concerned.

Very sad, but obviously, they see the numbers, and [I]Stupidus Americanus [/I]outnumbers intellectuals as a voting bloc today -- and that's what everybody should find alarming.

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

Slow news day, but this is a pretty big development. Six, count them, six top senior aides just up and left Newt's campaign today. I thought he would at least last until July.

[url=http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56626.html]Exodus from Newt camp - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com[/url]

Re: Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread
 

This really puts him in a bind with the next debate right around the corner. Talk about being left high and dry.

Besides Newt being a loser of epic proportions, this might signal another dark horse jumping into the race or they're defecting to another campaign. Maybe Michelle Bachmann or Pawlenty? She'll be strong in Iowa.

It's hard out there being pimp.