There is no way Smoot goes. He's a core Redskin.

Why is this all Sean Taylor's fault? Many posts on this thread point to him getting burned because he's a rookie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shawn Springs the cornerback covering on that play?

I like Smoot. He played well this year and I agree he was our best CB last year. He's gonna play play hardball with contract negotiations though and that's the nature of the business. If there's another solid CB available for less dough he's replaceable in this system. Heck, look how Springs career was resurrected.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Why is this all Sean Taylor's fault? Many posts on this thread point to him getting burned because he's a rookie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shawn Springs the cornerback covering on that play?[/QUOTE]




Springs was covering the play in the flats, Taylor was supposed to be the saftey help over the top. Its hard to say whos fault it was without knowing the actual play assignments. I think it was Taylor that had that guy.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Why is this all Sean Taylor's fault? Many posts on this thread point to him getting burned because he's a rookie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shawn Springs the cornerback covering on that play?[/QUOTE]

I agree, Beemnseven. Taylor damn near came back and made the play, while Springs Jammed at the line but then let the receiver go. Taylor was, after all, covering Keyshawn Johnson, and to his credit broke off of that coverage as soon as he recognized the deep pass. He was only a split second too late to either cause an incompletion or make the tackle. Springs was on the wide-out all the way and just got burnt. My argument is that they should have stayed with the blitz, which had been working so well, and not given Testaverde a chance to drop back and throw that perfect pass to begin with. :Flush:

It was both there faults, but I am not blaming anyone. Deep ball they caught it tough shit. I have seen worse losses in my life time. Thats why 5-9 teams do not belong in the playoffs. They cannot stop the big play as far as Browns fumble goes that is what killed us. Giving the Boy's another chance "tisk tisk". I am not going to bash Taylor the man is not perfect people cannot expect him to stop every play. Ed reed can't even do that. Just another loss, lets get ready for next week. We have a very tough test against the Vikes, especially with the loss of Smoot. We will see who will be here next year in the secondary. Another BRILLANT game by Mr. Peirce the man just flat out has so much heart and is leading this defense. I really loved when he called that timeout in the fourth because some screw up did not cover a reciever then yelled at him like a boyfriend catching his girl cheating on him "CLASSIC". That is what a leader does he raises his voice in a time of need. Portis going down today I feel was the biggest blow we became so one dimensional and Ramsey just showed me again why I am not sold on him. Mr. Inconsistency I say I know those picks were not his, but he looked scared today. For two series I just watched his feet and boy a track runner doesn't move his feet that much. Also with this loss we moved up like 6 spots in the draft. Well I have spoken my mind bring on the bashing I'm here all week.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Why is this all Sean Taylor's fault? Many posts on this thread point to him getting burned because he's a rookie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shawn Springs the cornerback covering on that play?[/QUOTE]

Well from what I saw and what the commentator pointed out, a lot of times our defense leaves the flats open. Running a two minute offense without any timeouts, DAL was likely to use the sidelines to control the clock, as supposed to throwing a completion in the middle of he field and having to spike the ball. This is the reason DAL was able to march down the field often in the second half. On the DAL TD, apparently G. Williams wanted to give Testicleverde a different look. From what I saw, Springs was playing a 'flat zone' (that's why he, with not much effort, jammed the WR before letting him release). Now if you remember, or if you watch the play again, there was a WR in the slot (Keyshawn?!) on the same side who ran a deep post. That put a lot of pressure on Sean Taylor as it would on any other safety in the league. And again, without a really good pass rush, that allowed the WRs to get deeper into the secondary where there was little help. I'll say it again. It would've been a better play if Springs would have blitzed. I expect G. Williams thought he could get an INT if a DAL WR ran a 'out' and Springs was playing a flat zone.

Guys: I agree that putting the ball in our defenses hands isn't the worst thing in the world, but please. 3 runs up the middle? HOW can you possibly defend that. We hadn't gotten any yards on the previous two plays and the 3rd we would rip it up. I'm sorry, but if we get a first down who cares if they still have one more TO, we can run the clock way down and seal it. Conservative football has burned us so many times. It's infuriating.

Normally I agree that Gibbs is too conservative. However, I agree with how he went about it at the end of the game, trying to run the clock out. Thats just how you do it. As somone pointed out, The Cheifs did the same thing yetserday, and should have lost the game because of it. I think our goaline playcalling is awful, but in the situation, I dont think the calling was too conservaitve, I think its just what you do. The Game as a whole, yeah, theres things we could have done different, but as for running out the clock, I think you run the ball.

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Normally I agree that Gibbs is too conservative. However, I agree with how he went about it at the end of the game, trying to run the clock out. Thats just how you do it. As somone pointed out, The Cheifs did the same thing yetserday, and should have lost the game because of it. I think our goaline playcalling is awful, but in the situation, I dont think the calling was too conservaitve, I think its just what you do. The Game as a whole, yeah, theres things we could have done different, but as for running out the clock, I think you run the ball.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree with you. It's easy to say we should have attacked at the end of the game. But why take that risk? Stay simple, protect the ball, hope to get a first down. Don't try any trickery or more importantly risk an unecessary turnover.

Our defense is our strength so why wouldn't we put the game in their hands?

[QUOTE=smootsmack]I absolutely agree with you. It's easy to say we should have attacked at the end of the game. But why take that risk? Stay simple, protect the ball, hope to get a first down. Don't try any trickery or more importantly risk an unecessary turnover.

Our defense is our strength so why wouldn't we put the game in their hands?[/QUOTE]
I would agree with you in principle. However I don't understand the defensive playcalling on the last Dallas possession. All game long we were pressuring Vinny, sacking him or making him check down or throw the ball away. Why all of a sudden did we go to what looked like prevent coverage? And as far as the offense was concerned I certainly wouldn't be suggesting any trick plays, but fer crying out loud, you marched right down the field by mixing up run and pass- why the hell not stick with it! I just think that if they would have played and called the the last two offensive possessions like they did their TD drive, we could have walked home with a W.

[QUOTE=LongTimeSkinsFan]I would agree with you in principle. However I don't understand the defensive playcalling on the last Dallas possession. All game long we were pressuring Vinny, sacking him or making him check down or throw the ball away. Why all of a sudden did we go to what looked like prevent coverage? And as far as the offense was concerned I certainly wouldn't be suggesting any trick plays, but fer crying out loud, you marched right down the field by mixing up run and pass- why the hell not stick with it! I just think that if they would have played and called the the last two offensive possessions like they did their TD drive, we could have walked home with a W.[/QUOTE]

Well, you're right about the prevent defense. I didn't quite get that either. I'm not sure they exactly played a prevent defense but they certainly weren't as aggressive toward the end of the last drive as they were at the beginning.

And I hear what you're saying about mixing things up. And it worked great on that TD drive, no question about it. But they had to take a chance because they were trailing at the time. With the lead and a strong defense I just don't think you put the ball in the air.

[QUOTE=LongTimeSkinsFan]I would agree with you in principle. However I don't understand the defensive playcalling on the last Dallas possession. All game long we were pressuring Vinny, sacking him or making him check down or throw the ball away. Why all of a sudden did we go to what looked like prevent coverage? And as far as the offense was concerned I certainly wouldn't be suggesting any trick plays, but fer crying out loud, you marched right down the field by mixing up run and pass- why the hell not stick with it! I just think that if they would have played and called the the last two offensive possessions like they did their TD drive, we could have walked home with a W.[/QUOTE]
i agree it seemed like the second to last dallas possession we punished vinny and then on the last possession we sat back and waited for him to pass the ball...i didn't understand. i also agree that it was best left up to the defense to hold the win..but isn't it obvious we play our best defense when we are really aggressive. :banghead:

Running out the clock is grand, but you can really run it out if you get 1 first down. I don't think a playaction pass to a short receiver (first down marker) would be too bad. The same amount of time is on the clock, only they have one more time out. Which would have been used and given us more time to score.

Suppose one of those passes had fallen incomplete and the clock had stopped and Dallas hadn't been forced to use a TO? People would have been all over Gibbs for not running it and having the game fall into the D's hands. Kinda darned if you do, danged if you don't.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Running out the clock is grand, but you can really run it out if you get 1 first down. I don't think a playaction pass to a short receiver (first down marker) would be too bad. The same amount of time is on the clock, only they have one more time out. Which would have been used and given us more time to score.[/QUOTE]
I'm thinking you meant "if you [b]can't[/b] get 1 first down" and I completely agree. Plain and simple, this team does not have the offensive line to play smashmouth football with anybody for a running back, even a John Riggins. Our last two offensive possessions Dallas was flooding the box to stop the run and our [b]OH[/b]-line was being completely [b]OH[/b]verwhelmed. A quick hitter to Cooley about 4 or 5 yds over the middle or a flat route probably would have gotten the job done. While we may have been a little more desparate on the TD drive, the playcalling was sharp with a good mix of pass and run and it kept the Dallas D completely on their heels. Until we get a few more linemen to complement the likes of Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels (and no, I'm not totally sold on hickory-dickory Dockery yet) we're not going to be able to challenge a team to stop us like in the old Gibbs days. The personnel is simply not there to do it.

I should also say that there is a master plan at work here, I believe. I hope we all see this when we start winning.

Master plan? Please, elaborate. We've tried this run up the middle 3 times strategy in various situations, I can't think of a single time it worked. As far as people yelling at Gibbs for trying a short throw. I don't think so. If we got a single first down the game woulda been basicly ours. I think it's ridiculous to not even attempt to get the first down to seal the game. Our defense is great, but if you give a team enough chances they'll get something.

Guys, if we had an offensive line that gave our backs some holes to run through, we wouldn't have to pass in that situation. Good teams run out the clock by pounding the ball. It doesn't matter who's running it.

I think our o-line struggled all day yesterday against a mediocre at best d-line. If we can't run the ball and protect the QB, you're in big trouble.

Hey, Redskins_P, we don't have said offensive line, therefore we shouldn't pretend we do! Not all teams run 3 times in that situation, many teams will throw a HIGH PERCENTAGE SHORT PASS! Something that's bound to get yards. Everyone going out would have had man coverage and I think a route to Cooley, Gardner, or McCants could have easily done the trick.

If we hand it back to our defense with 20 seconds and no timeouts, it's a much different ballgame.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Hey, Redskins_P, we don't have said offensive line, therefore we shouldn't pretend we do! Not all teams run 3 times in that situation, many teams will throw a HIGH PERCENTAGE SHORT PASS! Something that's bound to get yards. Everyone going out would have had man coverage and I think a route to Cooley, Gardner, or McCants could have easily done the trick.

If we hand it back to our defense with 20 seconds and no timeouts, it's a much different ballgame.[/QUOTE]


Hey Daseal, since we don't have an offensive line, who was going to protect Ramsey when he throws that high percantage pass? ;)

With our luck that pass would've been deflected then intercepted or Ramsey would've gotten sacked.

It all starts up front, and that's where we've been most inconsitent all year.

The same line that let him complete 19 of 29. When given high percentage passes he completely nearly all of them. He didn't exactly need a lot of time to get it off. God forbid he get intercepted, we might have lost!

This loss has to be blamed on the defense this time. How do you stuff the Cowboys all game long only to let them march down the field in about a minute and score on a 30+ yard TD pass? I kept thinking...okay Skins all you have to do is two stop them on two more downs! Then all of a sudden..the bomb downfield! I was screaming at the television!

As for the playcalling in this situation, you can't run out the clock by passing the ball. I realize ineffective running isn't going to help much..but it does force the other team to burn timeouts. Incompletions stop the clock, and that is one thing you don't want to do in a situation of chewing up clock time...even if you do have a 3 and 15 or whatever. Even if we throw and get another first down, the Cowboys have at least one timeout left to stop the clock...and considering how fast it took them to score on us..we would have still left them with plenty of time to have scored.

Skinsguy, when it's all said and done the defense did lose the game. BUT, this is the same defense that created 2 turnovers, and stopped the Cowboys 3 times before they gave up the touchdown. So, I blame the offense for not taking advantage of the turnovers and the special teams for fumbling that punt return.

Our defense is great, but you can't expect to win if you can only come with 10 points in a game.

[QUOTE=Daseal]The same line that let him complete 19 of 29. When given high percentage passes he completely nearly all of them. He didn't exactly need a lot of time to get it off. God forbid he get intercepted, we might have lost![/QUOTE]


To me it just seems like whatever we do, we still find a way to lose the game.


We had our opportunities, starting with the opening drive and marching all the way downfield to come with......nothing.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]To me it just seems like whatever we do, we still find a way to lose the game.


We had our opportunities, starting with the opening drive and marching all the way downfield to come with......nothing.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that INT at the Dallas 3 really came back to burn us at the end didn't it? Since it was early its importance seems diminished but it really shouldn't be

Well yeah...I mean like the opening drive where the Redskins marched down the field, only to have a freak interception off of a tipped pass. I'm just saying at the end, our defense lost the game for us...but the defense played great to keep us in the game this whole time. The eagles beat the Cowboys with only 12 points, and I believe 10 points would have been good enough to have beaten them, we just made a very big mistake at the end.

This has to stink more than any of the recent meetings between the two teams for the fact that we would have kept our playoff chances alive if we would have held on for a little more than a minute. I'm telling you, its the Daniel Synder curse!

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Yeah that INT at the Dallas 3 really came back to burn us at the end didn't it? Since it was early its importance seems diminished but it really shouldn't be[/QUOTE]


Absolutely! That killed some of the early momentum that we had.

That opening drive INT really hurt, we should have at least got a FG out of it but to come away with nothing really hurts especially when points are so scarce with this offense. Tough to say who's fault it was, Kozlowski probably should have hauled it in but it was a tough ball, perhaps Ramsey had a bit too much heat on it.

Either way there were many key plays throughout the game, blaming it all on the playcalling at the very end is a narrow view.

Give me any coach in a similar situation and 99% of the time that coach will do the same thing Gibbs tried to do, run the ball and more importantly make the other team burn their timeouts. If you throw an incompletion the clock stops and they save a timeout in the process. Punt the ball away and leave it up to your 2nd ranked defense to close out the game, that's called playing to your strengths. It may not be sexy but it's what wins football games the majority of the time.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Master plan? Please, elaborate.[/QUOTE]

Unlike everyone else, I don't think Gibbs expected to come in and turn the franchise around in one year. I believe that he is trying to straighten out what 5 years of DS's meddling has done. Flash does not necessarily win in the NFL. Continuity and dominance in minute details of the game puts Ws on the board.

Look at the difference between now and this time last year. I supported Spurrier every day he was the head coach, but the difference is like night and day. The players didn't see the franchise going anywhere last year. The players have rallied around Gibbs.

No, Gibbs has not come back into the league and ripped it up. He has shown some rust, but to think that he doesn't have a plan or the know-how to right the ship is absurd.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72] Give me any coach in a similar situation and 99% of the time that coach will do the same thing Gibbs tried to do, run the ball and more importantly make the other team burn their timeouts. If you throw an incompletion the clock stops and they save a timeout in the process. Punt the ball away and leave it up to your 2nd ranked defense to close out the game, that's called playing to your strengths. It may not be sexy but it's what wins football games the majority of the time.[/QUOTE]


I agree. You will find very VERY few teams in that siutation doing anything different.

I think very few of us thought we'd be going to the Super Bowl this year, but we did expect improvement. The problem is not the record to me, it's how we've lost these games. Conservative playcalling, and those minute details you mentioned being over-looked. We are penelized just as much (although half our penelty yards are on bullshit PI calls against Smoot.)

DS's medeling? Jesus, he picked his guys one year, realized he made a mistake and has nothing but gone out and fetched whatever players his coaches have wanted! Joe Gibbs said himself that he couldn't ask anything more from Daniel Snyder. He's paying a losing coaching staff more than any other staff in the league, he's built them everything they've asked, gotten nearly every player we seek. DS has no blame in this, he's doing more than any other owner in the league to try to help his coaches win!

What do you mean the difference? The same record? Massive amounts of penelties? Questionable playcalling? It looks exactly the same only we have an awesome defense and a horrible defense as opposed to a mediocre offense and a horrible defense. The penelties, O line play, and receptions I expected to go up. I had high hopes, I admit, but I also realized there was a good chance they wouldn't come true.

I also agree that Gibbs is an amazing leader. These guys would follow him to their death I think. That takes something special, very special. No one can doubt his dedication or his ability to have the players rally around him. I do however question how long that will last. There's always an aura of hope and salvation around a new coach, which in DC seems to fade quickly. Being that it's a guy that won Super Bowls way back gives him more leeway than he deserves, in my opinion.

Cpayne: He's kept making the same mistakes. It's like the rat that keeps hitting the same red button and getting a jolt. The blue button is right there that dispenses food, but he can't seem to figure it out. Three runs up the middle is infuriating. At least try.

We need an offensive coordinator I feel completely. At least someone to replace Don Breax to give input. Someone who's been in the league for quite some time!

The difference can be found in the morale of the team. Top to bottom.

DS's meddling comes in the form of change. I agree he is very willing, but he also promotes unnecessary change.

Do you think it's mistakes or protection? I think that the last thing he wants to do is ruin Patrick Ramsey's confidence at this point in his career. Again, it goes back to the continuity thing.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]That opening drive INT really hurt, we should have at least got a FG out of it but to come away with nothing really hurts especially when points are so scarce with this offense. Tough to say who's fault it was, Kozlowski probably should have hauled it in but it was a tough ball, perhaps Ramsey had a bit too much heat on it.[/QUOTE]


I've watched it a couple of times and it appears that the ball caught Kozlowski by surprise, he didn't have his hands out to catch it, he almost had his hands against his shoulder pads, just our luck that the ball went to a defender instead of zinging out the back of the end zone. A lot of time chewed up for nothing.

I don't buy into curses or any of that stuff, we broke before they did. 2005 will be a different story. Can you imagine how different the team will be when Gibbs and Williams has them for an entire season, instead of having all the nonsense and distractions that they had this year?

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]I've watched it a couple of times and it appears that the ball caught Kozlowski by surprise, he didn't have his hands out to catch it, he almost had his hands against his shoulder pads, just our luck that the ball went to a defender instead of zinging out the back of the end zone. [/QUOTE]


Even though it caught him by surprise he still should've caught it. Like my old high school coach used to always tell me, "if you touched the ball you should've caught it"

I bet Cooley or Royal would've caught it.

Put yourself in Ramseys shoes? You're not thinking "Wow, he's really trying to protect me!" He's thinking "Asshole doesn't believe in me."

Gibbs has a one on one meeting with Ramsey every week I'm sure, so he knows exactly what's going on.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Put yourself in Ramseys shoes? You're not thinking "Wow, he's really trying to protect me!" He's thinking "Asshole doesn't believe in me."[/QUOTE]


it's probably more like "shit, if I don't get rid of the ball soon, my ass is getting pummeled"

At least he's not worried about losing years off his life anymore.

The playcalling at the end was fine. It was a textbook clock rundown and not many coaches would have (or should have) run it differently.

Some points:

- I thought Antonio Brown looked great early on. Great speed and he looked dangerous every time. Of course the fumble was INEXCUSABLE, but there's no point killing this kid, I'd give him another shot or two.

- The fumble really hurt us. We forced them 3 and out, but we could have had the ball and made them use all their timeouts first. Instead they got a second chance to use all their timeouts and get the ball one more time when the game shoulda been over.

- Washington's offside penalty also hurt. It stopped the clock with like 45 seconds left and let the Cowboys settle down and regroup.

- Taylor screwed up at the end but I have to put more blame on the play call. We got caught in no-man's-land. No pressure yet not safe enough deep. It was just like one of my online Madden games. Springs was wasted out in the flat, and the game shouldn't be put in the hands of a rookie hoping he makes the right decision in deep coverage. It's not the first time Taylor has screwed up in deep coverage.

- I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is not a "great" defense. We like to jump around and talk trash when guys like Clemons are sacking poor Vinny, but we're not mature enough to close out a game when it's in the D's hands. The same thing happened in the Browns game. The Patriots would never give up a play like that. Once we took the lead the game shoulda been over. The offense didn't help much but the bottom line is we had a 4 point lead with 1 minute left and the ball at the 50. No D should blow that game, especially not a 'great' D.

- That was one of the most painful losses ever. :mad: