[QUOTE=Daseal]When was the last time we had a back run for 1300 yards? [/QUOTE]

Stephen Davis.

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Good news! We have Portis AND Betts AND Gibbs! [/QUOTE]

Yep! There is no doubt that Portis is our number one back, but having Betts giving Portis a breather and stepping up if Portis is injuried is definitely a plus for us! I think it's very valuable for us to keep Betts.

[QUOTE=skins009]Might i remind everyone that Betts run on minnosota, and everybody runs on vikings.[/QUOTE]


Hehehe....not Rock Cartwright! ;)

[QUOTE=Bozzy]Are you blind, or did you not watch the fucking game? He broke tons of tackles and never stopped. For Christsakes, he got hit 5 yards shy of a first down and bullied his way for the first. Has Portis done that against anybody? No. If Portis doesn't have an open lane to run, he can't do shit.[/QUOTE]


Say on brother! everything but the curses that is! :nono: :D

Portis is staying here. It is crazy to consider trading him even Champ. Let Champ sink in the Denver snow. He shoulda stayed in DC under Gibbs and Williams, but he wanted out, so let him go. Portis is a great back and I think he has a great future here behind Joe Gibbs. Portis however is used to playing AFC ball where you run your burst of 3-5 secs and take a dive. He gives up to easy as he seems to fall down or dive once he's exhausted his 1 hole. Ofcourse he doesn't do this every play but I would say 80% of them. Watch the tapes. He rather cut back into a dive than run toward it. In a previous post I mentioned Joe Washington. He wasn't afraid to give up his body, much like an LC or Thrash or Taylor, Smoot, etc. Portis will learn to work with Gibbs and vice versa. We are witnessing a change here in DC. A return to glory. So all you bandwagoning bitches calling for portis' or gibbs' head should join a current 2k4/2k5 playoff teams fansite. Cause this one if for real believers!

luxor - you're quick to call people "bandwagon bitches." I promise you many people who may have joined the Gibbs bandwagon aren't on it anymore. I haven't heard for a single person asking for Gibbs to be fired, and I'd love for you to find a post to prove me wrong. I think trading Portis is silly, but there is a little room to criticize portis, but I think his main problem is he's having to totally change his running style, I'd like to see them use a more Denver-esque system, but we shall see.

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Betts has been running pretty good, not just only against Minnesota. I will say he probably had his best game today.[/QUOTE]
Ok let me remind everybody here that there were some serious calls to get rid of Betts after the Ravens game. He seemed to have missed a block that allowed Ed Reed in for a Sack and a fumber return for a TD. Betts is servicable but please do not kid yourself as Portis is our starting back and should be cause he is BETTER. He blocks, catches well and runs even better.

Whether Portis gets 1500+ yards next season or that he had 1300 yards this year doesn't really mean a whole lot if it takes him 400 carries to do it. That's been the problem this year -- a 3.8 ypc average. Most of that has to do with poor blocking from the O-line, a certain percentage has to go to Portis taking awhile to adjust to this running system.

Betts won't be the starter, nor will he push Portis for the starting job -- Betts is the ideal backup. His performance today proves he is best for this exact situation. Carry the ball for a game or two if Portis is injured, and provide relief for Portis as the #2 back.

Theres nothing wrong with having two good running backs. The scenerio is perfect because Betts is cheap, already on the team. No sense getting rid of him, its nice to have a change of pace back. Next year Jansen will be back, we will hopefully get a center. Bugel will continue to work with them. Im looking forward to next year. Our record sucked but I think we are in a better position to move forward then we have been in years

Yesterday proved that Betts is a capable backup and he can start in a pinch due to injury, etc.

It did not prove that he is now the next John Riggins and Portis is now expendable.

As a matter of fact, I've watched every single game Ladell Betts has ever played in and I've never been impressed. I'll say it again. He's not a powerful runner. He doesn't run that hard and he doesn't run that well. He ran much better than I have ever seen him yesterday, but it was the Minnesota Vikings. I saw him hit the line the same way I saw Portis hit it a few times and go straight down. He's not Stephen Davis. He's not John Riggins. Changing our starting RB is not the answer. Especially not to Betts.

I haven't liked Betts since they drafted him. I haven't been impressed by his "power running style." I never really have understood why everyone was so pressed on him. He has never run that damn well and he's not a starting RB in the NFL.

BTW, why don't you quote some of the rest of my post where I used stats. You try to get me to remember one play where he broke some tackles by Minnesota Vikings. He ran alright, but by no means did he warrant a starting job.

I'd also like to add that Minnesota gives up an average of 125.4 rushing yards per game. Ladell Betts gained 118. That's about an average performance against the Minnesota Vikings.

[QUOTE=Bozzy]Are you blind, or did you not watch the fucking game? He broke tons of tackles and never stopped. For Christsakes, he got hit 5 yards shy of a first down and bullied his way for the first. Has Portis done that against anybody? No. If Portis doesn't have an open lane to run, he can't do shit.[/QUOTE]
whoa, that's a 15-yarder on Bozzy for unnecessary use of the F-bomb

ok...to clarify...bozzy is on crack, i've seen him take on the crackpipe and love every second of it...j/k

Portis had a great year considering the lousy offense the Skins had. Complaining about Portis isn't fair...defenses would stack 8 and 9 up on the line, knowing that the Skins can't go deep. And Portis still had 1300...Betts is a great backup, and chance of pace, but once Bugel gets the dirtbags going again, Portis will have seasons like he did in Denver...

I dont think the entire O-Line needs revamped...the Skins have 2 bookend tackles in Samuels and Jansen, and 2 hard working guards in Thomas and Dockery. The Skins also have a few reserves who filled in quite nicely when needed. The big question mark is Center, where Raymer/Friedman isn't cutting it...

Once the Skins prove they have a downfield passing game, the run will open up...

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]whoa, that's a 15-yarder on Bozzy for unnecessary use of the F-bomb[/QUOTE]

lol :frusty:

trading portis would be the dumbest thing the skins could do.betts showed he was a great backup yesterday,but he is not a back that can take a pounding week after week.the only game the skins were not really in this year was the first philly game,other than that,they could have easily been 11-5 with a few more breaks.i saw a huge difference in this year's team and last years team.they may have only won one more game,but it is a whole lot better team.i feel good about the skins next year,would'nt surprise me if gibbs is at redskin park right now figuring out who is gonna stay or go,and what free agents he's going after.this team is in good shape,it is almost certainly going to go to the playoffs next year,count on it.

Bozzy,

My thoughts exactly. Portis gets hit and is down. He'll never be in the Bettis, Jamal Lewis, Stephen Davis, Riggins league. Too small.

[QUOTE=djdunick]Bozzy,

My thoughts exactly. Portis gets hit and is down. He'll never be in the Bettis, Jamal Lewis, Stephen Davis, Riggins league. Too small.[/QUOTE]
simply stated portis is a speed/finesse back.bettis,riggins,riggs,and rogers were all power backs.but due to the salary cap,gibbs is going to have to mold portis into the type of back that will help the skins win.

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie]I dont think the entire O-Line needs revamped...the Skins have 2 bookend tackles in Samuels and Jansen, and 2 hard working guards in Thomas and Dockery. The Skins also have a few reserves who filled in quite nicely when needed.[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure about this. Outside of Jon Jansen, the O-line has serious issues, so much so that I doubt one offseason of draft picks and free agent aquisitions (if there's any room left with the cap) will do the trick. Chris Samuels is taking an absurd amount of the payroll percentage and he is nothing more than an average left tackle. There's no other way to describe him.

Derrick Dockery has had a full season to learn the system, gain knowledge from an experienced line coach, and doesn't have the injury problems as an excuse. He has not progressed, and still makes too many mental mistakes. According to my local paper, he is responsible for seven false start penalties this season.

Randy Thomas has done just enough to escape from being called a free agent bust. He has not proven to be worth the kind of money we paid him, nor has he lived up to the reputation of being one of the top offensive guards in the league as was once said.

That leaves center, and I agree that if you had to prioritize the O-line weaknesses, that position is at the very top in need of attention.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Theres nothing wrong with having two good running backs.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely right. Even though Gibbs has always run a one back set, he's always had two good backs (at least). Riggo/Washington, Riggo/Rogers, Riggs/Byner, etc.

So if you replace Portis with Betts, who replaces Betts-Cartwright? Simon? Sultan!?

Let's just hope Betts can stay healthy and let's consider ourselves blessed that we have two good backs.

Trading Portis? Jesus have we Skins fans learned absolutely anything since 2000? Let's get some continuity.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]
Randy Thomas has done just enough to escape from being called a free agent bust. He has not proven to be worth the kind of money we paid him, nor has he lived up to the reputation of being one of the top offensive guards in the league as was once said.[/QUOTE]
I really have to disagree with you on Thomas.

He's been a rock at the RG spot since he came over. He's a great pulling RG and he fits in nicely in this offense. When was the last time you heard him whistled for a penalty? I don't recall hearing his name very often if at all the past two years. When we were having all the false start problems last year Thomas never flinched.

Maybe we did overpay for him a bit, but that's the name of the game when you're stealing away FA's. Thomas has easily been our most consistent lineman the last two years. He's the least of our worries up front.

If there's anything to worry about on the O-line, it's going to be finding a quality center and maybe looking for someone to take over Dockery's spot. I'm not really sold on Derrick and I really expected him to be getting it this year, but he still doesn't seem to. I think the only player on the line to be whistled down more than Dockery was Ray Brown.

yeah, I see a healthy Jansen giving a nice impact to the running game. We can stretch to the right, or we can pull thomas and use Samuels on the other side!

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I really have to disagree with you on Thomas.

He's been a rock at the RG spot since he came over. He's a great pulling RG and he fits in nicely in this offense. When was the last time you heard him whistled for a penalty? I don't recall hearing his name very often if at all the past two years. When we were having all the false start problems last year Thomas never flinched.

Maybe we did overpay for him a bit, but that's the name of the game when you're stealing away FA's. Thomas has easily been our most consistent lineman the last two years. He's the least of our worries up front.[/QUOTE]

I'll concur with you that outside of Jansen, Thomas is the last of our worries up front, but he's still part of a line that generates around 3.8 yards per rush, and a player of a team that's 5-11 and 6-10 the last two seasons. We should expect much more.

I'm just saying he's far from being a bust, he's not even close.

Betts had a great game vs. the Vikings with 118 yards and a TD, but with the way the O-line was playing (finally), I think a healthy Portis would have gotten close to 200 yards...or the two off them combined would have.
It was enough though, and it is nice to see that we have two good backs at the very least. Feeling good about 2005!

Oh, and as for the line, IMO, all they need is more time with Bugel....along with maybe an upgrade at center, and a little better depth just in case something like Jansen's injury happens again.