Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;848386]My take is that football isn't rocket science and the coaches aren't infallible.[/quote]

Love this quote!!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=irish;848568]Its really tough to get rid of roster rot without draft picks.[/quote]

Roster is getting old IMO. where is there rot from the past? Who Fletch? Orakpo? I mean really.... Time to hold Kyle accountable Mike.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Meks;848553]my take? Kyle blows get a real play caller[/quote]


Send Kyle packing with his Grossman. He gambled he lost bye Kyle.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;848479]My take on coaching is... we should be focusing on the talent instead.

People complained about this same crap last year when our main problem clearly was a lack of talent. We're improved from last year in that department but we're still in the process of rebuilding this team.[/quote]

Good point about the talent. I definitely haven't been a fan of Kyle's playcalling, but we don't really have any WR's either. It's something that really hasn't been talked about much through our first 5 games. Our WR corps is amongst the bottom 3 in the NFL. Armstrong is the only guy who can stretch the field, and he hasn't played in a few weeks and isn't that good to begin with.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Lessons learned from Gibbs: 1. Run the ball you don't give up on the run especially on the Sheagles. They tend to break down in the 4th quarter. 2. QB ball security.

McNabb is looking terrible this year, but is still looking better than Grossman.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=irish;848537]He obviously knows he doesnt really have a QB, his WRs are not much to brag about, and his O line stinks. He has his system and he's trying to install it as SOP for the team while the talent that can run his system is brought in.

IMO it was the same with Hazlette last year. Everyone was screaming that he's an idiot who should know he doesnt have the talent to run his D and should switch but guess what, he got some talent and now his D looks pretty good. Its gonna be the same for Kyle. He's got very little talent now but will keep getting more and as that happens and the team gets used to his system things will improve.[/quote]

Mike said he had two QBs. He had a competition in camp. HAHA! WRs are straight not an excuse. O-line, if he knows he needs linemen then why wasn't he drafting any? This is year two not year one. Compare this rebuilding job to GibbsII. Joe was better by far. I miss Joe everyday and pray Taylor is doing well.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;848604]Mike said he had two QBs. He had a competition in camp. HAHA! WRs are straight not an excuse. O-line, if he knows he needs linemen then why wasn't he drafting any? This is year two not year one. Compare this rebuilding job to GibbsII. [B]Joe was better by far.[/B] I miss Joe everyday and pray Taylor is doing well.[/quote]

In 2005 Gibbs was coming off a 6-10 season and was also 3-2 at this point in the season. Maybe we should give this some more time to play out before we say who was better.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;848608]In 2005 Gibbs was coming off a 6-10 season and was also 3-2 at this point in the season. Maybe we should give this some more time to play out before we say who was better.[/quote]

Seriously. Nothing like the hyperbole on the Monday after a division loss.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=skins89moss;848371]My take is that the Redskin coaches no more about the NFL game than any fool on here who tries to pretend he knows more.[/quote]

Yeah but so did Jim Zorn

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;848608]In 2005 Gibbs was coming off a 6-10 season and was also 3-2 at this point in the season. Maybe we should give this some more time to play out before we say who was better.[/quote]

Agreed Beck to the future!!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I think coaches always get off the hook with most of the fans and I am glad this thread is creating a discussion about them. Let me start by saying that I do agree with the criticism that is given to our players. But I feel that at a certain point, coaches need to be held accountable as well.

In regards to leadership, I like what MS has done between last year and this year. Getting rid of the drama was the best improvement during the offseason. Also, BA and MS have done a good job at bringing character guys with talent (like Kerrigan). This week has been the only week that I have somewhat questioned Mike's leadership. I expected him to do a better job at getting this team mentally ready for such an important game. And I thought waiting to pull Rex until the end of the third quarter, was just a poor decision. I'm sure he had his reasons, but I think that switch was a quarter too late.

I don't know how much involved Mike is in the playcalling, but something needs to change with Kyle S. We are not the Texans with Schaub and Johnson...we have Beck throwing to Moss. We can't be a pass-first team, not with the average guy we have (and I mean Beck) and the somewhat average receivers. We have the possibility of having a good running game (don't know how that will be with our banged up o-line) yet that doesn't seem to be the focus of the team, even when playing against poor run defenses.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848578]Should Beck play well, I wonder if anyone will then credit Kyle. I think his flaw is not in designing the plays, but picking the right spots to call them. Mike is definitely involved though, he's not sitting there without giving any input.[/quote]

Agreed on the timing/position of playcalling.. reminds me of when I'm casually playing madden... the plays are getting people open but if our QB can't capitalize on it one of the two has to change for now

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848440]From what I gathered that delay of game was more so a miscommunication between MS and the referees on getting the time out called.

And I'm not sure I'd gather from that one incident that there isn't camaraderie on this offense. I would think that the offseason workouts say otherwise.

I also believe, that the lockout and who was drafted ahead of us played key roles in affecting our QB plans. We do need a QB of the future, I absolutely agree. But unfortunately, that's not all we needed. We have added several key pieces. And I know after a loss like this, we all want to talk about how we have failed mightily and the rest of the season is doomed etc. If fans want to think that, fine, our feelings have no affect. But we're screwed if the actual team starts to believe it.[/quote]

^
This

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I like our coaching staff for the most part, for what each brings.

mike shanahan - i like his vision and concept of the run game. hes said it repeatedly now since hes been here, this team will only be successful if we run the ball well and often.

I like how he finds "one cut, hit the hole hard" running backs and uses them.

I like how he has been successful in finding 3 starting athletic zone blocking OL in chester, trent and lich.

i like the improvements made and people he has brought in so far for the run game. give him another year and hell get to add a few more hand picked pieces to the O line and perhaps we will have enough depth to survive injuries unlike yesterday where the loss of lich and trent was absolutely unrecoverable.

how we wants to shape this team by being run first with hand picked OL guys who fit his athletic zone blocking scheme.

kyle - i admit he seems to give up on running the ball, particularly yesterday but with the O line injuries and being in a hole, its understandable. he called more screens and dump offs which dont replace a strong run game but kinda sorta act like a run game and those dump offs to davis were successful. i think he went to rb screens alil to much, the eagles were on it after awhile.

i do believe kyle's passing scheme will work and work very well in the NFL. a couple times yesterday rex and beck had guys open behind coverage with a few steps on the closest db only to have the qb underthrow it. give kyle an above average QB and i think we hit on some big pass plays that weve either missed or havent even taken a chance on.

haslett - im starting to like him. seems real aggressvie, doesnt seem to hide or disguise much which when we play a smart audible-able QB may spell disaster for us but i think hasletts aggressive play calling is making O coordinators taking his style and approach into account and making them change some of what they want to do as they try and gameplan for the skins in the week leading up to a game.

overall - i like our coaches alot. think we need to give them more depth on O line, more talent in a few places on D and above all a real legit QB. not having an upper tier QB has been killing us the past 15 to 20 years or so.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;848479]My take on coaching is... we should be focusing on the talent instead.

People complained about this same crap last year when our main problem clearly was a lack of talent. We're improved from last year in that department but we're still in the process of rebuilding this team.[/quote]

Absolutely correct!!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

People keep referring to Mike Shanahan as a 2 time Super Bowl winner.

That was in the dim and distant past.

I prefer to think of him as a guy who won a grand total of 1 playoff game in his last 10 years in Denver when he had total control.

Do not be surprised if he has even less success in his stay here.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I agree with Goat, that this weird handling of the QB situation has t obe called into question. First of all, you acquire McNabb, then dump him before he completes one season, then go along with your vet backup, move him to starter, even if he was a suspect starter, which is how we got him in the first place. On top of that you bring in a 30 year old Qb that did start a handful of games for crappy teams, and still couldn't land a starting gig, until now your starter(who really is no better than a backup) has shown his true colors. We needed to go QB this past draft. This should have been a no brainer after we let Donovan go. Now we will draft a QB in 2012, and that is all cool, but that really means 2014 at the earliest to truly expect to contend for the division. How many of these guys are going to be around for 2014? I mean guys like Moss, Davis, Cooley(most likely done as a Skin starter), Orakpo, etc. This team will be in a constant rebuilding mode til we get the QB position solidified. I can wait til 2014, since I have waited since 1999 to have a really exciting team take the field, but I would like to know that there is an end in sight for this rebuilding eventually.As of right noiw, I am starting to think that the Shanahans are just taking Skins' nation for a ride

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

The way rookie QBs come in and contribute right away these days, there's no reason that a rookie QB can't be factor next season with solid pieces around him. A QB is absolutely critical, I made the point that I thought we should have even added two young QBs this past offseason, but in the meantime we are building a solid core around that position

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

This is what it boils down to....

You bring in a young drafted talented QB and he gets mauled and trampled like Ramsey did with no OL. I think the coaching staff took the approach of getting the OL first in order to protect whoever they bring in next yr or whenever.

Remember this team has been decimated over the yrs because the team failed to draft OL. There was a strong need to get young talent on this team and get them NFL ready.

I think the coaching is fine and to me 100x better then years past. This coming from a Gibbs1/2 era fan. Some of you have issue's with the play calls and you have to realize what we got.... MS is a run first to set up the pass, but MS is not the OC. KS is a pass first to set up the run which made the Texans succesfull. The Skins problem is they don't have a decent QB and decent WR's. Pretty bad that AA is our only deep threat and he's injured. Moss is no longer the deep threat, Gaffney is awesome in short to intermediate routes but acts like 50/50 on the deep routes. Is anyone coaching up Hankerson to get him on the field sometime this year? or are they just letting him sit back and try to figure it all out himself? and as Smoot said.... play Austin more.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

To tell you the truth, I am getting kind of worried if we can expect this kind of playcalling all season, as well as the personnel moves and clock mismanagment.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848787]The way rookie QBs come in and contribute right away these days, there's no reason that a rookie QB can't be factor next season with solid pieces around him. A QB is absolutely critical, I made the point that I thought we should have even added two young QBs this past offseason, but in the meantime we are building a solid core around that position[/quote]

Yes, rookie QBs come in and play right away, the days of sitting around for 2 or 3 years to learn are over. QB is obviously the Skins biggest probelem because the NFL is a QB league and the Skins dont have one.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848787]The way rookie QBs come in and contribute right away these days, there's no reason that a rookie QB can't be factor next season with solid pieces around him. A QB is absolutely critical, I made the point that I thought we should have even added two young QBs this past offseason, but in the meantime we are building a solid core around that position[/quote]

I would have liked to see them pick up a QB in the later rounds. A 4th/5th/6th round QB would not have cost the team much, and it would have been an option if the worst were to happen (both Rex and Beck screwing up). At the least, we could have ended up with a third-stringer or back-up for 2012.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=irish;848800]Yes, rookie QBs come in and play right away, the days of sitting around for 2 or 3 years to learn are over. QB is obviously the Skins biggest probelem because the NFL is a QB league and the Skins dont have one.[/quote]

But most of those QB's came in with a decent OL waiting to protect them. We had neither a decent QB nor a decent OL. If we drafted a QB he would have been learning on the go with out an OL to protect him. As Smoot said hopefully with all the young talent at OL next year whoever we bring in will already have an established OL to protect them while they learn the game and scheme.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;848803]I would have liked to see them pick up a QB in the later rounds. A 4th/5th/6th round QB would not have cost the team much, and it would have been an option if the worst were to happen (both Rex and Beck screwing up). At the least, we could have ended up with a third-stringer or back-up for 2012.[/quote]

You already got that?..... in Jonathan Crompton. He was drafted in the 5th round of 2010 by the Chargers. He not good enough for you? This is what you get from a 5th rounder.... practice squad material.

But if you want we all can start the chant for Crompton just in case Beck does not work out.

Crompton, Crompton, Crompton.............

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SBXVII;848811]You already got that?..... in Jonathan Crompton. He was drafted in the 5th round of 2010 by the Chargers. He not good enough for you? This is what you get from a 5th rounder.... practice squad material.

[B]But if you want we all can start the chant for Crompton just in case Beck does not work out.

Crompton, Crompton, Crompton....[/B].........[/quote]

The closer we get to elimination, the more likely you are to hear that chant from me.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Crompton the new Bartel?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

trade deadline less than 24 hours away .. wonder if our coaches, will be tryna.make.ne moves

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848816]Crompton the new Bartel?[/quote]

If we had kept Bartel and developed him, we might have a very different QB scene right now. But that's water under the bridge.

What is relevant now is that neither Beck nor Rex are real options for the future. The sooner we can begin to turn over our QB roster, the better.

I don't know if Crompton is ready to play now - needless to say, I've never seen him throw a pass as a Redskin. But at worst case, if we are eliminated we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by giving him the ball. He might or might not work out but either way we will have moved towards a real future at the position.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848787]The way rookie QBs come in and contribute right away these days, there's no reason that a rookie QB can't be factor next season with solid pieces around him. A QB is absolutely critical, I made the point that I thought we should have even added two young QBs this past offseason, but in the meantime we are building a solid core around that position[/quote]

As long as we know what we doing. Kyle needs to be humble and listen to his dad. His marginal success in Houston was be cause of talent not because of his genius.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I dunno, Kyle still seems like a kid to me.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Lotus;848495]Kyle drives me nuts. To be sure, he is an excellent designer of pass plays and seems to always get someone open. But his playcalling, especially in the red zone, is suspect. And his game planning seems dim. This team needs to run to win, especially against poor run defenses, but Kyle appears to be unaware of this, just as he seemed unaware of the run when he was in Houston.

Mike has brought us a professionalism which was sorely lacking before and I appreciate it. But he lacks the necessary professional relationship with his offensive coordinator. When it is time to tweak things, does he undertake the actions appropriate for a head coach? And if/when it is time to find a new OC, will Mike recognize this and follow through appropriately?[/quote]I'll say this about Laurainitis' pick of Rex Grossman: it was a poorly designed trap pass. For all the talk about how great of a play designer KS is, he designed a play where its a two receiver route, and the receivers (who cross off the snap) sit down in the linebacker's coverage zone. That Grossman pick was on KS.

He's definitely got a bit of John Shoop in him. I don't think he understands coverages too well, or at least the difference between anticipating man coverage and anticipating zone coverage. And I think that's an important ability of a playcaller which he doesn't have.

He could cover up a lot of these issues by calling more 4 and 5 receiver patterns. But Kyle and Mike both put a huge premium on protecting the QB. Such a huge premium that our offense is limited because of it.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;848852]I'll say this about Laurainitis' pick of Rex Grossman: it was a poorly designed trap pass. For all the talk about how great of a play designer KS is, he designed a play where its a two receiver route, and the receivers (who cross off the snap) sit down in the linebacker's coverage zone. That Grossman pick was on KS.

He's definitely got a bit of John Shoop in him. I don't think he understands coverages too well, or at least the difference between anticipating man coverage and anticipating zone coverage. And I think that's an important ability of a playcaller which he doesn't have.

He could cover up a lot of these issues by calling more 4 and 5 receiver patterns. But Kyle and Mike both put a huge premium on protecting the QB. Such a huge premium that our offense is limited because of it.[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with limiting the offense to protect the QB. Ball security is job one. But when you have Rex just floating it out there like Claussen did last year for the Panthers, then we have a problem. It's not a sin to punt the ball and let Haz win the game. Protect the QB, don't turn it over then you win. Kyle wants his offense to look a certain way, I just want the Redskins to win.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Lotus;848495]Kyle drives me nuts. To be sure, he is an excellent designer of pass plays and seems to always get someone open. But his playcalling, especially in the red zone, is suspect. And his game planning seems dim. This team needs to run to win, especially against poor run defenses, but Kyle appears to be unaware of this, just as he seemed unaware of the run when he was in Houston.

Mike has brought us a professionalism which was sorely lacking before and I appreciate it. But he lacks the necessary professional relationship with his offensive coordinator. When it is time to tweak things, does he undertake the actions appropriate for a head coach? And if/when it is time to find a new OC, will Mike recognize this and follow through appropriately?[/quote]

Brilliant post Lotus. This sharpens up the concerns I wanted to express.

Good point as well about the offensive scheme in Houston! I don't think that team developed a dominant ground attack until Kyle left, and now we seem to see him "wasting" our talent in that regard. It's pretty ironic considering Mike's history as one of the sports most successful rushing-scheme coaches.

As others have said w/ injuries to the o-line the best way to get that unit going is to run the rock and grind away at the defense. Committing to the run is also a great idea when half your QB's completions are to the wrong effing team.

...hate you Kyle lol.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;848365]PS I think Mike's history as a returning 2X championship HC has to be taken into account when assessing his performance here. I definitely expected him to come in with a solid plan of action and have the offense, especially the QB situation, moving in a better direction by now.[/quote]

Goat:

When Mike Shanahan showed up in San Fran to be the offensive coordinator, the QB was Steve Young. And there was some guy named Rice on the team too... Let's just say, there wasn't much that needed "fixing".

When Mike Shanahan showed up in Denver to be the head coach, John Elway was the QB. And there were guys named Davis and Sharpe on the team too... Let's just say there wasn't much that needed "fixing".

When Mike Shanahan showed up here in DC, he had Jason Campbell to deal with and no WRs worth the time of day, and he decided that was not going to work for him. Hey, if you are used to having Young and Elway waiting for you, I can see how a welcoming committee of Jason Campbell would surely be "disappointing".

The problem is that Mike Shanahan made a bet and [B]lost that bet[/B]. The bet was that Donovan McNabb had two or three good years left in him and that would give Shanahan the time to find a free-agent or a kid in the draft or a guy in the Canadian League or an Arena Leaguer or...

Last year when he benched McNabb in the Detroit game with 2 minutes to play, the most prominent reaction was along the lines of:
[INDENT]OK, he benched McNabb because he wasn't playing well but WTF HE PUT IN REX "BLEEPING" GROSSMAN!![/INDENT]
Shanahan's problem is that he [B]does not have a top-shelf QB on the roster.[/B] He is going to say all the right things about Grossman and Beck and Clemens and any other guy who is here on the roster with a QB label on him; that is what coaches do. Those pronouncements do not change the facts however; he does not have a good QB to play yet.

The effect of his "losing the bet" on McNabb will wear off at the end of this year when he can figure out what his next wager will be. Right now, he is hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with one of these guys getting on a streak where one of them plays WAAY over their heads for a 10-game stretch. It can happen; it's not likely to happen, but it can happen.

Don't be too angry. He actually did have a plan when he came here as to how he was going to make the offense better. He implemented that plan and lost his bet on the key guy in the plan. That is a minor hiccup and not a fatal flaw...

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Screw protecting QB's... Where is Steve Spurrier when you need him?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

IF we start Beck I would hope the scheme won't be so much max protect (because he's far more mobile than Rex) and we can open things up more.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;849229]Goat:

When Mike Shanahan showed up in San Fran to be the offensive coordinator, the QB was Steve Young. And there was some guy named Rice on the team too... Let's just say, there wasn't much that needed "fixing".

When Mike Shanahan showed up in Denver to be the head coach, John Elway was the QB. And there were guys named Davis and Sharpe on the team too... Let's just say there wasn't much that needed "fixing".

When Mike Shanahan showed up here in DC, he had Jason Campbell to deal with and no WRs worth the time of day, and he decided that was not going to work for him. Hey, if you are used to having Young and Elway waiting for you, I can see how a welcoming committee of Jason Campbell would surely be "disappointing".

The problem is that Mike Shanahan made a bet and [B]lost that bet[/B]. The bet was that Donovan McNabb had two or three good years left in him and that would give Shanahan the time to find a free-agent or a kid in the draft or a guy in the Canadian League or an Arena Leaguer or...

Last year when he benched McNabb in the Detroit game with 2 minutes to play, the most prominent reaction was along the lines of:
[INDENT]OK, he benched McNabb because he wasn't playing well but WTF HE PUT IN REX "BLEEPING" GROSSMAN!![/INDENT]
Shanahan's problem is that he [B]does not have a top-shelf QB on the roster.[/B] He is going to say all the right things about Grossman and Beck and Clemens and any other guy who is here on the roster with a QB label on him; that is what coaches do. Those pronouncements do not change the facts however; he does not have a good QB to play yet.

The effect of his "losing the bet" on McNabb will wear off at the end of this year when he can figure out what his next wager will be. Right now, he is hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with one of these guys getting on a streak where one of them plays WAAY over their heads for a 10-game stretch. It can happen; it's not likely to happen, but it can happen.

Don't be too angry. He actually did have a plan when he came here as to how he was going to make the offense better. He implemented that plan and lost his bet on the key guy in the plan. That is a minor hiccup and not a fatal flaw...[/QUOTE]

Well, let's not gloss over the fact Shanahan drafted guys like Davis and Sharpe. The Broncos were floundering around the .500 mark for the prior 3 seasons before he got there too.


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Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

We need some rain games. That way Mike can pester his son without worry about running the ball.

I'll be able to answer this one a lot better tomorrow after Mike says who he's starting at QB. On paper it's obvious, but apparently Rex has the locker room. I don't know why? Maybe because he predicted us to win the east early but those guys love the confidence. I bet he gets the slow, inaccurate nod tomorrow.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

honestly after that last showing, i wouldn't be surprised or upset either way. I just want whoever they roll out there on sunday to not be embarrassing, and, of course, to get a win.