Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=firstdown;849036]Lets not go to far. [B]We have no idea what the conditional pick is in 2013 and I'd bet they never see that draft pick.[/B] So they probably gave up a 1st for Palmer. After watching Rex this past Sunday that sounds like a pretty good deal. There is a reason Palmer wanted out.[/quote]


All reports is that 2013 is a 2nd that could conditionally become a 1st. The Raiders got hosed.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Somewhere today, Al is smiling.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Mattyk;849032]Isn't Spurrier still coaching?

;)[/quote]

LOL, good one!

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Someone mentioned the possibility of JC back in Wash. That would be somethin, but I don't see it happening. If it did, Shanny could at least say he got a 4th & then was still able to sign him again.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=mlmpetert;849038]All reports is that 2013 is a 2nd that could conditionally become a 1st. The Raiders got hosed.[/quote]

If that's true they did get hosed.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Honestly i could see it working out for the Raiders in the short term but the cost is way to high and will hurt them in the future. Neat chart on average age of each team:

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/43768/2011-nfl-age-ranks-calling-all-graybeards]2011 NFL age ranks: Calling all graybeards - NFC West Blog - ESPN[/url]

Raiders are 15th, but likely will be a little older with the addition of 31/32 year old QB and the lack of young "keepers" from the first round in 2012 and 2013. The Redskins are the 5th oldest team for comparison. Cinncinati is the 22 oldest (so theyre pretty young)

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Oakland is going to be a really old team in 2014, but the truth is they'll probably be the same team that they are now, personnel wise. The 2015 Raiders are going to be horrible, but I just don't think that's of much concern to them right now. A good GM may have raised that concern, but Hue Jackson sees a team that can dominate its division for the next 3.5 years. And he's going for it.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Meanwhile props to the Bengals, they could be a force really soon

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/bengals-have-pieces-in-place-for-renaissance/]Bengals have pieces in place for renaissance | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Mattyk;849049]Meanwhile props to the Bengals, they could be a force really soon

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/bengals-have-pieces-in-place-for-renaissance/]Bengals have pieces in place for renaissance | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

All that talent will have a hard time overcoming Marvin Lewis as head coach.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Just wow baby

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Mattyk;849049]Meanwhile props to the Bengals, they could be a force really soon

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/bengals-have-pieces-in-place-for-renaissance/"]Bengals have pieces in place for renaissance | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

Agreed. AJ Green and Dalton look like real solid picks.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849021]A couple things:

[B]Carson Palmer is still really, really good[/B]. The Raiders are the favorite in the AFC West. They have three divisional games coming up. If Hue Jackson thought he could win 2/3 with Kyle Boller, I'm sure he would have gone that route.

I thought the surplus value of Palmer's contract (through 2014) was at roughly the value of a first round pick. So the Raiders overpaid here because they were desperate. He's not worth a first round plus, though he is worth a first rounder.

The bigger issue here is that he cost a first rounder in a draft that could have solved the QB need for the next ten years instead of three. But hey, the starting QB is hurt and flags fly forever. If the Raiders go deep in the playoffs in 2011, it's a good deal. If they don't, then they probably had better options available.[/quote]

When was his last good year??? It's been a while.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;849018]This is a move the Raiders needed to make. Yes, it's steep but with the level of talent, the Jackson connection Palmer will thrive in this offense. The Raiders are now in serious contention for the AFC crown. Laugh all you want, this move will pan out.[/quote]


I think they are a solid team but a SB Contender??? IDK about all that bro

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

A.J. Green was worth the package of picks that Atlanta gave up to get Julio Jones. Jones...not so much.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

I called that during the draft, Green was a stud and I think Jones will never be the superstar WR he was traded for

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=skinsfan69;849054]When was his last good year??? It's been a while.[/quote]2006 or 2007. When Hue Jackson was there.

Palmer had a really "clutch" 2009 season where those late-game results didn't roll over to 2010, which caused the drop in record. But those were BAD offenses. Really bad. Palmer was by far the best player on them. And there wasn't a close second.

I'm also projecting him to age rather well, in part because he's already overcome a pretty career-threatening elbow injury to rank consistently in the top 15 quarterbacks in the NFL on one of the worst offenses. The Raiders are more like the 2006 Bengals than the 2009 or 2010 Bengals. And it wouldn't shock me if he played at or just below that prior level.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849055]I think they are a solid team but a SB Contender??? IDK about all that bro[/quote]

I don't see it either. Solid playoff contender perhaps.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Mattyk;849059]I don't see it either. Solid playoff contender perhaps.[/quote]

They have some talent don't get me wrong but still No true 1 WR and their secondary is AVG at best. NTM Palmer could come in and stink it up thats not out of the Q

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Mattyk;849049]Meanwhile props to the Bengals, they could be a force really soon

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/bengals-have-pieces-in-place-for-renaissance/]Bengals have pieces in place for renaissance | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Hopefully, but I just don't trust Mike Brown.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

He's 32 in two months, Oakland made a bad deal IMO

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849065]He's 32 in two months, Oakland made a bad deal IMO[/quote]

It's super risky no doubt.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Man.. If they gave up two 1sts for Carson Palmer, we should of made a move and traded them Rex Grossman. We could of at least got a 4th.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Bucket;849070]Man.. If they gave up two 1sts for Carson Palmer, we should of made a move and traded them Rex Grossman. We could of at least got a 4th.[/quote]

To the Raiders defense, the Seymour trade worked out okay...probably not first-round okay, but it wasn't a disaster. Meanwhile, the Pats D was never the same after Seymour left, although their potent offense has been able to overcome any defensive deficiencies.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

Seymour is a DT that can be productive longer than other positions, Palmer is a OLD QB that is always hurt, If I'm a Raiders fan I'm not that stoked like some have been acting like. I think all of us Skins fans can see whats going to happen in Oakland (McNabb trade for us).. I just don't see it working out

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Bucket;849070]Man.. If they gave up two 1sts for Carson Palmer, we should of made a move and traded them Rex Grossman. We could of at least got a 4th.[/quote]They already had Kyle Boller.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849072]Seymour is a DT that can be productive longer than other positions, Palmer is a OLD QB that is always hurt, If I'm a Raiders fan I'm not that stoked like some have been acting like. I think all of us Skins fans can see whats going to happen in Oakland (McNabb trade for us).. I just don't see it working out[/quote]

Palmer is only 31..that's not old in QB years. He probably has 3 or 4 left in the tank if he can stay upright.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849072]Seymour is a DT that can be productive longer than other positions, Palmer is a OLD QB that is always hurt, If I'm a Raiders fan I'm not that stoked like some have been acting like. I think all of us Skins fans can see whats going to happen in Oakland (McNabb trade for us).. I just don't see it working out[/quote]

Somewhat similar, but not completely the same. Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is the best deal out there, I just don't think it is the worst (yet). When McNabb came to us, we had no receivers, a terrible line, and we were implementing a 3-4 defense with 4-3 personnel. I think this has a better chance to work out than McNabb. If it fails though, the consequences are going to be bigger than us, because basically you setback a team that has some good components already in place.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

And Palmer was a much better player at his peak than McNabb was. That's a big one when evaluating the relative compensation.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

welp, another bonehead trade by Oakland ... less they win the sb next few years, which they wont.. this is useless

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849088]And Palmer was a much better player at his peak than McNabb was. That's a big one when evaluating the relative compensation.[/quote]

maybe u wanna retract this.one...
cuz.Carson didn't do shit for cincy in the post season really... he also did it with two great recievers .. mcnabb had what.. t.o for 3/4 a year? ... they don't compare at their peaks at all IMO ... and I hate the mcscabb

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Meks;849091]maybe u wanna retract this.one...
cuz.Carson didn't do shit for cincy in the post season really... he also did it with two great recievers .. mcnabb had what.. t.o for 3/4 a year? ... they don't compare at their peaks at all IMO ... and I hate the mcscabb[/quote]You're right that they don't compare:

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PalmCa00.htm]Carson Palmer NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm]Donovan McNabb NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

McNabb's done it for a long time. But Palmer 2005-2007 was one of the three best quarterbacks in football. Clearly. Something that McNabb never was. If Palmer had great receivers, why has no Palmer receiver ever done anything outside of Cincinnati? Are the Bengals that great of an organization that puts it's great players in positions to succeed?

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

In all of this, has anyone talked to Carson to see if he is even interested in playing for the Raiders? Is the trade contingent upon Carson accepting the trade and willing to play for Raiders?
Also, Carson is only 31, but he has the body of a 36 year old QB. Many injuries and lost games with injuries through out his career. Not an iron man by any stretch.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PalmCa00.htm#2005-2007-sum:passing]Carson Palmer NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

This is Palmer in his prime. McNabb in his prime:

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm#2004-2007-sum:passing]Donovan McNabb NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

We're talking roughly an 1,000 yard difference/season.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

ive just realized how bad this trumps our McNabb move big time. Thank god for the Raiders

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

IMO I'm not buying numbers, I prefer results over stats.

even he was a choke artist ... body of work for me is much greater in the long run for the loser from Philly .. but Carson could change all that in the next few years ..

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Meks;849114]IMO I'm not buying numbers, I prefer results over stats.

even he was a choke artist ... body of work for me is much greater in the long run for the loser from Philly .. but Carson could change all that in the next few years ..[/quote]I think you might be confused on what stats are.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Chico23231;849109]ive just realized how bad this trumps our McNabb move big time. Thank god for the Raiders[/quote]

Well at least the Raiders have a reason to be a win-now team. We had no business trading for a QB last season, unless that QB was Brees, Manning, Rodgers, or Brady. As I said, this Raiders trade will be more of a disaster than our trade for McNabb if it fails. As for now, we have to wait and see what happens.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

I just perfer results over numbers .. unless its wins and division titles super bowls in this case zero etc etc

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

[quote=Meks;849121]I just perfer results over numbers .. unless its wins and division titles super bowls in this case zero etc etc[/quote]Maybe I'm confused on what you mean by results? Because all I did was post a page full of 'results.' That's the only thing I'm judging on here. It's not like I posted a scouting report on McNabb's mechanics vs. Palmer's mechanics, something that is also not close.

Re: Carson Palmer to Oakland Raiders for 1st/2012
 

With this deal, Oakland doesn't have a draft pick until the 5th round next year.