Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Blasphemy.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;856476]With the season looking like it is over at just over the halfway mark, do you think we just let the youngsters play on the "playground" and take the dive for a top 5 pick?[/quote]

We should've just been playing the young guys from day one. Even with everyone healthy this wasn't a playoff team.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

People need to distinguish a little nuance when we talk about taking a "dive". A GM could deliberately weaken his roster the get exclusives rights to a certain player, but the coaches and players still give 100% effort. That's just sound business.

The other way to dive is to deliberately half-ass it. That wouldn't fly with anyone and those involved would like be released or fired from the team.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

These "lose for a draft pick" always make laugh becasue you think a London Fletcher type guy lay down so that the Skins can draft some college kid that has never played a snap in the NFL. No way!

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Take a dive. I think if we just keep playing the way we are now we get a top five pick. Put in the youg guys they might bump us out of the top 10.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=mredskins;856665]These "lose for a draft pick" always make laugh becasue you think a London Fletcher type guy lay down so that the Skins can draft some college kid that has never played a snap in the NFL. No way![/quote]

I don't think anyone is going to throw games. That's ridiculous. But at this point don't you think we need to see if Riley can play? As much as I like and respect Fletch, he's not the future here. It's time to get all these young guys on the field and that time is now.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;856476]With the season looking like it is over at just over the halfway mark, do you think we just let the youngsters play on the "playground" and take the dive for a top 5 pick?[/quote]


Think about what you just said...

If you play the "youngsters" that is a way to wind up with only 3-4 wins for the year so you get a "Top Five Pick". If the "youngsters" are that bad, do you want the same folks executing this "Top Five Pick" that just delivered the "youngsters" who will go out and lose games when put on the field?

Are the "youngsters" that incompetent?

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Crompton, Crompton, Crompton.

:) lol

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;856676]I don't think anyone is going to throw games. That's ridiculous. But at this point don't you think we need to see if Riley can play? As much as I like and respect Fletch, he's not the future here. It's time to get all these young guys on the field and that time is now.[/QUOTE]

Bench fletch for riley, when we have a perfectly inept mike backer next to him that needs replacing anyways? :laughing- wow. What are you smoking?

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Lose on purpose? No.

Play all your young talent so they get both valuable game time experience and a chance for the coaches to really evaluate them. We're not going to the playoffs, see what this team has to build on so we can make better decisions down the road.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=Mattyk;856644]I don't think we're gonna have to try too hard to get a top 5 pick with the way things are going.[/quote]

Agreed. We're a lock for the top 10. With Beck in there we should be able to reach the top 5. Just keep Rexy on the bench... if Good Rex shows up we might win a couple by accident.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;856683]Think about what you just said...

If you play the "youngsters" that is a way to wind up with only 3-4 wins for the year so you get a "Top Five Pick". If the "youngsters" are that bad, do you want the same folks executing this "Top Five Pick" that just delivered the "youngsters" who will go out and lose games when put on the field?

Are the "youngsters" that incompetent?[/quote]
Learning curves can be climbed. The only ones who are stupid are the ones who deny the existence of learning curves.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=mooby;856483]I say if you are a pro athlete, it would be extremely embarrassing if at any point you thought about not giving 100% on the field, especially if you are getting paid a lot of money to do so.

I also say it's pathetic that as a fan you would actively root for this team to lose games for a higher draft pick next season. Name one instance, in the entire history of the big 4 sports leagues in the US, where a team that looked like it was tanking the season actually landed the higher draft pick next year that brought the team good fortune, meaning championships and not just regular season wins, for the next decade.[/quote]

Well there is always this:
[B]1983 to 1988: The Pittsburgh Penguins/Mario Lemieux sweepstakes [/B]The team had the league's worst record in both the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982%E2%80%9383_NHL_season"][COLOR=#0000ff]1983[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9384_NHL_season"][COLOR=#0000ff]1984[/COLOR][/URL] seasons, and with the team suffering financial problems, it again looked as though the Penguins would fold. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Lemieux"][COLOR=#0000ff]Mario Lemieux[/COLOR][/URL], one of the most highly touted NHL draft picks in history, was due to be drafted in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NHL_Entry_Draft"][COLOR=#0000ff]1984 NHL Entry Draft[/COLOR][/URL]. Heading towards the end of the season ahead of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Devils"][COLOR=#0000ff]New Jersey Devils[/COLOR][/URL], who were placed last, the Penguins made a number of questionable moves that appeared to weaken the team in the short-term. The Penguins posted three six-game winless streaks in the last 21 games of the season (out of which they won only three) and earned the right to draft Lemieux amidst protests from Devils president Bob Butera.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Penguins#cite_note-3"][COLOR=#0000ff][4][/COLOR][/URL] Pittsburgh coach [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Angotti"][COLOR=#0000ff]Lou Angotti[/COLOR][/URL] later admitted that a conscious decision was made to finish the season as the team with the worst record, stating in an interview with the [I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Post-Gazette"][COLOR=#0000ff]Pittsburgh Post-Gazette[/COLOR][/URL][/I] that a mid-season lunch prompted the plan, in light of the fact that there was a high chance of the franchise folding if Lemieux was not drafted.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Penguins#cite_note-Angotti-4"][COLOR=#0000ff][5][/COLOR][/URL] In particular, Angotti gave the example of a game the Penguins were winning 3–1, at which point general manager [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Johnston"][COLOR=#0000ff]Eddie Johnston[/COLOR][/URL] asked the coach "what are you doing?" in the first intermission of the game that was eventually lost 6–3.

Looks like a pretty good example to prove you wrong, hell the coach admitted it later....but still hate to see the Skins lose on purpose.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=LBrown43;856737]Well there is always this:
[B]1983 to 1988: The Pittsburgh Penguins/Mario Lemieux sweepstakes [/B]The team had the league's worst record in both the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982%E2%80%9383_NHL_season"][COLOR=#0000ff]1983[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9384_NHL_season"][COLOR=#0000ff]1984[/COLOR][/URL] seasons, and with the team suffering financial problems, it again looked as though the Penguins would fold. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Lemieux"][COLOR=#0000ff]Mario Lemieux[/COLOR][/URL], one of the most highly touted NHL draft picks in history, was due to be drafted in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NHL_Entry_Draft"][COLOR=#0000ff]1984 NHL Entry Draft[/COLOR][/URL]. Heading towards the end of the season ahead of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Devils"][COLOR=#0000ff]New Jersey Devils[/COLOR][/URL], who were placed last, the Penguins made a number of questionable moves that appeared to weaken the team in the short-term. The Penguins posted three six-game winless streaks in the last 21 games of the season (out of which they won only three) and earned the right to draft Lemieux amidst protests from Devils president Bob Butera.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Penguins#cite_note-3"][COLOR=#0000ff][4][/COLOR][/URL] Pittsburgh coach [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Angotti"][COLOR=#0000ff]Lou Angotti[/COLOR][/URL] later admitted that a conscious decision was made to finish the season as the team with the worst record, stating in an interview with the [I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Post-Gazette"][COLOR=#0000ff]Pittsburgh Post-Gazette[/COLOR][/URL][/I] that a mid-season lunch prompted the plan, in light of the fact that there was a high chance of the franchise folding if Lemieux was not drafted.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Penguins#cite_note-Angotti-4"][COLOR=#0000ff][5][/COLOR][/URL] In particular, Angotti gave the example of a game the Penguins were winning 3–1, at which point general manager [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Johnston"][COLOR=#0000ff]Eddie Johnston[/COLOR][/URL] asked the coach "what are you doing?" in the first intermission of the game that was eventually lost 6–3.

Looks like a pretty good example to prove you wrong, hell the coach admitted it later....but still hate to see the Skins lose on purpose.[/quote]

Even in this case, I doubt the players were mailing it in. Management just shipped whatever good players left out of town, and I'm ok with that. It's management's job to get as many championships as possible, whatever the cost.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;856738]Even in this case, I doubt the players were mailing it in. Management just shipped whatever good players left out of town, and I'm ok with that. It's management's job to get as many championships as possible, whatever the cost.[/quote]

What he said. If management decides to play it like that, whatever. But good luck asking London Fletcher to miss tackles, give up big plays, etc. And it's too late to ship players out of town, so in order to secure the possibility of the first overall pick, we'd have to start cutting our good players. Either way I don't think it's feasible. And it's dumb. I will admit I was wrong, as apparently it's been done before. But I still don't like it, and 1 time out of all the times teams might've done it is not a good track record. Besides, what if you tank, and finish with the 2nd overall pick? What then?

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;856738]Even in this case, I doubt the players were mailing it in. Management just shipped whatever good players left out of town, and I'm ok with that. It's management's job to get as many championships as possible, whatever the cost.[/quote]

Wrong. The Pittsburgh Penguins 100% gave up for Lemieux. It's a very known thing in the hockey world that crappy teams get reminded about every year.

The ironic part is that Lemieux was a generational hockey talent, well some argue a better talent than Wayne Gretzky prior to when he suffered cancer.. Is Andrew Luck a generational quarterback talent?

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Oh man. Someone just challenged SCP in the hockey world. Here comes an Aurele Joliat reference

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;856748]Oh man. Someone just challenged SCP in the hockey world. Here comes an Aurele Joliat reference[/quote]

Heh, I'm Canadian so it's all good.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

:lol:[quote=SmootSmack;856748]Oh man. Someone just challenged SCP in the hockey world. Here comes an Aurele Joliat reference[/quote]

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856746]Wrong. The Pittsburgh Penguins 100% gave up for Lemieux. It's a very known thing in the hockey world that crappy teams get reminded about every year.

The ironic part is that Lemieux was a generational hockey talent, well some argue a better talent than Wayne Gretzky prior to when he suffered cancer.. Is Andrew Luck a generational quarterback talent?[/quote]

I lived in Pgh at this time and the team was so bad it was difficult to tell how much they were "giving up". The organization knew they had to get ML to keep the franchise alive in Pgh (the rumor was they were going to Hamilton ON) and while it never seemed like they overtly tanked games there was definitely a sense of understanding that losing was more beneficial than winning.

I find it hard to believe that pros could be talked into tanking games for the sake of the team getting a higher draft pick. These pros are much more concerned with keeping thier bonafides intact so when the time comes they can catch on with another team.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856746]Wrong. The Pittsburgh Penguins 100% gave up for Lemieux. It's a very known thing in the hockey world that crappy teams get reminded about every year.

The ironic part is that Lemieux was a generational hockey talent, well some argue a better talent than Wayne Gretzky prior to when he suffered cancer.. Is Andrew Luck a generational quarterback talent?[/quote]

Management(top dogs) certaintly did by deliberately removing the good players from the roster. I'm ok with that.

But I'm talking about the players and coaches. Were the players just plain ass or did they not give any effort? It's not hard to find the scrub hockey players in your system.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;856738]Management just shipped whatever good players left out of town, and I'm ok with that. [/quote]

Aka....the 2011 Denver Broncos. Send your best WR to the Lions and were shopping Orton, Dumervil (or so rumors suggest). Even through this, the team still plays hard and tries to win each week.

NBA on the other hand, many of those jackasses don't even play 100% regardless where they are in the standings.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;856748]Oh man. Someone just challenged SCP in the hockey world. Here comes an Aurele Joliat reference[/quote]

Considering I've been in MD my whole life, I certainly won't be claiming expertise over the hockey-mad Canadians in the world.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;856771]Management(top dogs) certaintly did by deliberately removing the good players from the roster. I'm ok with that.

But I'm talking about the players and coaches. Were the players just plain ass or did they not give any effort? It's not hard to find the scrub hockey players in your system.[/quote]

In the Pens case the players were just plain ass and the coach wasnt much better.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Try to lose? Never!

Nevertheless, as long as Shanny starts Beck at QB we'll lose most of our remaining games anyway.

We could never suck for Luck the way the Colts are doing it. I mean, week after week they continue to start some guy named Curtis Painter at QB. Painter passed for 42 yards last week. So, finishing last is surely out of the question. But I can see how we could possibly finish the season in the bottom five. That probably won't happen if Shanny comes to his senses and reinstates Rex as the starting QB but, if he sticks with Beck for the rest of the season, it could.

We're unlikely to beat any of Dallas, Jets, Pats, NYG, or Eagles. It won't be easy to win @Miami or @Seattle. Minn at home is no pushover for us, either.

In short, I would much rather win as many games as we can than to finish the season in the bottom five but I think it could happen.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Redskins Redskins.com
WR Niles Paul suffered a turf toe injury, could be out a couple weeks, per Mike Shanahan.

Looks like GusFrerotte kicked Niles Paul in the toe to continue his "Suck for Luck" campaign.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;856771]Management(top dogs) certaintly did by deliberately removing the good players from the roster. I'm ok with that.

But I'm talking about the players and coaches. Were the players just plain ass or did they not give any effort? It's not hard to find the scrub hockey players in your system.[/quote]

Considering I was a Leafs fan who finished 4th last, I followed it closely. I remember their team was constantly being switched around. 3rd line center played 10 games as the 1st line center while the 4th line center played as the 2nd line center, and so on... They just did everything they could to lose more games than New Jersey who were also unexpectedly terrible. The fans and players didn't complain because they had Lemieux to look forward too.. What did he do the year after he was drafted? Scored 100 points, won rookie of the year, the next year he had 141, and within five years he had back to back stanley cup championships.

You can't exactly say it didn't work for them, or their players went into a "losing mentality".

Quarterbacks are game changers, Andrew Luck can turn a team around.

I love London Fletcher as much as the next guy, he will always be my favorite linebacker... But he's 36 years old and our team sucks, we need a quarterback. You can be our linebacker coach London, but this team won't make the playoffs while you're here.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856818]...I love London Fletcher as much as the next guy, he will always be my favorite linebacker... But he's 36 years old and our team sucks, we need a quarterback. You can be our linebacker coach London, but this team won't make the playoffs while you're here.[/quote]Fletcher's situation seems likely to play out like Ken Harvey's - the Skins didn't get to the playoffs under Norv until the year after Harvey was done. In hindsight, Shanny would have been much better off keeping Jason Campbell as the caretaker at QB until he found his "franchise" player. You can never convince me that Rex or Beck are better options than Campbell.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Well I, for one, was pissed we let JC go from the beginning. I do think the McNabb experiment wouldn't have happened with JC here. JC wanted to start.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=SouperMeister;856821]Fletcher's situation seems likely to play out like Ken Harvey's - the Skins didn't get to the playoffs under Norv until the year after Harvey was done. In hindsight, Shanny would have been much better off keeping Jason Campbell as the caretaker at QB until he found his "franchise" player. You can never convince me that Rex or Beck are better options than Campbell.[/quote]

Absolutely, Jason Campbell wasn't in those MVP talks (not that they were completely serious) that one season for nothing. He can make the throws with an offensive line.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=hooskins;856822]Well I, for one, was pissed we let JC go from the beginning. I do think the McNabb experiment wouldn't have happened with JC here. JC wanted to start.[/quote]

With JC here the Skins would have 3 crummy QBs instead of 2. I think MS brought in DM thinking he was still enough of a big time QB to overcome the little amount of talent they had on O last year. Obviously it didnt work.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=irish;856831]With JC here the Skins would have 3 crummy QBs instead of 2. I think MS brought in DM thinking he was still enough of a big time QB to overcome the little amount of talent they had on O last year. Obviously it didnt work.[/quote]

Well if we had 3 crummy QBs last year (I'm assuming JC, Rex, and Beck) we would have still kept our second rounder and gotten a solid player from the draft given MS/BA's track record.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Lmao!! Top five we're guaranteed a top 3.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

We will have to agree to disagree because I have always thought JC was decent/good. Much better than any option we had at the time (McNabb included) or we do now.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

Dark pleas for Barkley(s)?

[URL="http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/480322/matt-barkley"]Check the stats, son![/URL]

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856838]Well if we had 3 crummy QBs last year (I'm assuming JC, Rex, and Beck) we would have still kept our second rounder and gotten a solid player from the draft given MS/BA's track record.[/quote]

Good point. Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time I thought it was a good trade because I thought that if DM played they way he did with Philly he was a definite upgrade from from what the Skins had. Unfortunately DM's skills had seriously eroded.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=hooskins;856848]We will have to agree to disagree because I have always thought JC was decent/good. Much better than any option we had at the time (McNabb included) or we do now.[/quote]

On his best days JC was decent but those days were too few and far between. Knowing what we know now the DM trade should never have happened but if we could predict the future....

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=irish;856852]Good point. Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time I thought it was a good trade because I thought that if DM played they way he did with Philly he was a definite upgrade from from what the Skins had. Unfortunately DM's skills had seriously eroded.[/quote]

I was iffy about the trade but trusted MS. It did bug me that the first thing that he did was something that the Redskins had been criticized for in the past. Now of course I wish he had gone a different direction. Shoot, I would have rather have another year of JC or a year of Rex, instead of giving up picks for a crappy year of McNabb.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

To Hail with the Redskins.

Re: I say we "Dive for a Top 5"!!!!!
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856818]Considering I was a Leafs fan who finished 4th last, I followed it closely. I remember their team was constantly being switched around. 3rd line center played 10 games as the 1st line center while the 4th line center played as the 2nd line center, and so on... They just did everything they could to lose more games than New Jersey who were also unexpectedly terrible. The fans and players didn't complain because they had Lemieux to look forward too.. What did he do the year after he was drafted? Scored 100 points, won rookie of the year, the next year he had 141, and within five years he had back to back stanley cup championships.

You can't exactly say it didn't work for them, or their players went into a "losing mentality".

Quarterbacks are game changers, Andrew Luck can turn a team around.

I love London Fletcher as much as the next guy, he will always be my favorite linebacker... But he's 36 years old and our team sucks, we need a quarterback. You can be our linebacker coach London, but this team won't make the playoffs while you're here.[/quote]

Well, upon looking at the careers of the players on the 1983 and 1984 rosters at Pro Hockey Refernce, I see that almost all of the Penguins on the '83 roster that made it to the '84 roster never got to bask Lemieux's glory after his rookie season. And the coach didn't come back either. So it was hardly profitable for most involved, the exceptions being Denis Herron and the GM.