Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

SmootSmack, if I were to say that I believe that the best fit for the Kyle Shanahan scheme (putting aside for a second my personal thoughts about its viability going forward) at quarterback from this class is Kirk Cousins, how would you react to that assessment?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Senior QB Rankings (Pre-Bowl):

1) Nick Foles - Top 10
2) Kellen Moore - 1st round
3) Kirk Cousins - 1st-2nd
4) Ryan Tannehill - 1st-2nd
5) Dominique Davis - 2nd-3rd
6) Jacory Harris - 3rd-4th
7) GJ Kinne - 3rd-4th
8) Dan Persa - 5th-6th
9) Ryan Lindley - 5th-6th
10) Chandler Harnish - 5th-6th
11) John Brantley - 7th-Undrafted
12) B.J. Coleman - 7th-Undrafted

Foles is really good, and I'm really not sure why more people don't expect more out of him. He's not in Andrew Luck's class, and by extension he's not Barkley or Griffin, but he's at least on par with Joe Flacco coming out of college. I think he's got more ability than Flacco did. Top 10 might be a stretch, I think underclassmen will push him down.

Kellen Moore is a sensational player who should get a stock boost from the recent success of guys like Andy Dalton and Colt McCoy. Unlike McCoy and Dalton, he's totally and utterly immobile, like Foles, but the thing that makes me think Moore will overcome his height while Kinne, Persa, and Russell Wilson won't be able to overcome theirs is that Kellen Moore makes it look easy. If there's a criticism of Foles, is that he makes passing look tough, even when he's well in control of the situation. Moore is the opposite: throw whatever you want at him. He'll beat it.

Cousins impressed me this season specifically because he learned how to attack defensive gameplans. Cousins can break down a defense over the course of a game, which I think is an underrated skill for an NFL quarterback. He's an extreme timing and rhythm "within the system" passer though, which makes sense for a Kyle Shanahan quarterback. Throws a better ball than Rex Grossman.

Tannehill is exactly what you want in a prospect physically, as was Blaine Gabbert before him. He uses the pre-snap read reasonably well, but I don't like how he uses the pocket and I don't like his ball placement ability for run after catch purposes (where Foles I think does the best job of that, along with Moore and Cousins). I don't have any concerns about his arm strength at the next level, where Moore and Cousins will be limited at times. Tannehill, like Cousins, can tuck and run to move the chains. I don't think he throws a better ball than Rex Grossman -- with the exception of the deep out -- but he does "see the throw" considerably better than Grossman, particularly outside the hashes. He seems to be a reasonable decision maker, but the throws he actually takes are typically wide open, and if they aren't, he doesn't use the progression well. He reminds me of Matthew Stafford in a lot of ways. And with Stafford, you just have to take away his top target and then let his lack of accuracy decide the game. I'd do the same thing if defending Tannehill.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Kellen Moore reminds me so much of Kurt Warner. I feel like I'm watching the same guy. Height will always be an issue with him, no different than the fact that windup/release will always be an issue with Tebow. Some teams will never be able to get over that.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;862888]Tannehill on ESPN and WatchESPN tonight[/quote]

I watched bits a pieces of his for the 3rd time this season. Now, exactly why is he considered a good prospect? Zero impressed with this guy every time i watch, sure is athletic and mobile. He not close to Jones, RG3, Barkley, Luck, or even Foles or Weeden. IMO when looking to compare him, he is more in the class of Moore when you start talking about "hey should the skins get a second QB prospect in the 3-4 round", Tannehill fits there, which is great, but Id be very disappointed if we didnt get one of the top 4 and settled for more of a project type.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

I don't know why the Skins would even consider drafting Tannehill or Cousins. The Skins should be able get a much better QB in the first round and we have too many other needs to fill in the draft to take two QB's unless we draft the second QB late.

I also don't how either of those players could be considered by any team in the first or second rounds. Neither of them is good enough to start in the NFL, IMO.

As for Kellen Moore going in the first round, I just don't see it happening because of his physical stature. When he measures at 5'11" and 180 lbs. at the Combine, he'll slip. Nevertheless, neither Tannehill nor Cousins is worthy to carry Moore's helmet for him. Moore has been a great college QB and I wouldn't bet against him as a pro. I'd guess that he'll go in the third round where he might turn out to be a steal for some team.

I'm still hoping that Barkley, Jones, and RGIII will all come out because I think that would ensure that the Skins get a good prospect.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;862961]Kellen Moore reminds me so much of Kurt Warner. I feel like I'm watching the same guy. Height will always be an issue with him, no different than the fact that windup/release will always be an issue with Tebow. Some teams will never be able to get over that.[/quote]

This comparison is right on the money, well said man.

Now we'll have to see if the Kurt Warner of college ball plays the same in the NFL.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;862959]SmootSmack, if I were to say that I believe that the best fit for the Kyle Shanahan scheme (putting aside for a second my personal thoughts about its viability going forward) at quarterback from this class is Kirk Cousins, how would you react to that assessment?[/QUOTE]

Are you asking me if I agree? If I like Cousins? If I've heard of any interest in Cousins?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=IrMitchell;862877]He hasn't been able to do anything as a Trojan.. 1 bowl game as a freshman and since he's been held back by Reggie Bush. He has no legacy as a Trojan and he's got the best left tackle in the nation who feels the same way.

They said they'd make their decision together and that he (Barkley) doesn't plan on crying during his "final" game like Leinart because they're in completely different situations.


[url=http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/22/sports/la-sp-1123-matt-barkley-kalil-20111123]USC's Matt Barkley and Matt Kalil are in this together - Los Angeles Times[/url][/quote] Well lets hope that doesn't happen.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

RGIII is no lock to enter the draft either.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GMScud;863011]RGIII is no lock to enter the draft either.[/quote] Hopefully he does along with Barkley and Jones. I would really hate to wait until 2013 to get our qb of the future.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Landry44;863012]Hopefully he does along with Barkley and Jones. I would really hate to wait until 2013 to get our qb of the future.[/quote]

Wait, in the first 2012 QB thread, you basically called me a fool for even suggesting that RGIII could stay in school. Now you just "hope" he doesn't?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GMScud;863013]Wait, in the first 2012 QB thread, you basically called me a fool for even suggesting that RGIII could stay in school. Now you just "hope" he doesn't?[/quote] Do you really want to keep going back and forth about something a said weeks ago? To be honest, I don't even remember what I said to you. You should stop being so sensitive and get over. Whatever I said to hurt your feeling I apologize. I didn't realize that guys took things said here so personally.

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;862968]I don't know why the Skins would even consider drafting Tannehill or Cousins. The Skins should be able get a much better QB in the first round and we have too many other needs to fill in the draft to take two QB's unless we draft the second QB late.

I also don't how either of those players could be considered by any team in the first or second rounds. Neither of them is good enough to start in the NFL, IMO.

As for Kellen Moore going in the first round, I just don't see it happening because of his physical stature. When he measures at 5'11" and 180 lbs. at the Combine, he'll slip. Nevertheless, neither Tannehill nor Cousins is worthy to carry Moore's helmet for him. Moore has been a great college QB and I wouldn't bet against him as a pro. I'd guess that he'll go in the third round where he might turn out to be a steal for some team.

I'm still hoping that Barkley, Jones, and RGIII will all come out because I think that would ensure that the Skins get a good prospect.[/QUOTE]

RG is barely six feet tall according to several people. Scouts seem to love RT's upside

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Landry44;863014]Do you really want to keep going back and forth about something a said weeks ago? To be honest, I don't even remember what I said to you. You should stop being so sensitive and get over. Whatever I said to hurt your feeling I apologize. I didn't realize that guys took things said here so personally.[/quote]

Hurt my feelings? Hardly. But yeah, moving along amicably is the best thing to do.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GMScud;863017]Hurt my feelings? Hardly. But yeah, moving along amicably is the best thing to do.[/quote] Lets just move on brother. We're both Redskin fans and want the best qb we can get next year. We all might have different opinions about who that might be. At the end of the day we both want the same thing. To be honest, as long as we get a franchise guy I don't shiit what his name is. As long as he's a guy who's going to be here and perform at a high level for many years. Truce?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Landry44;863018]Lets just move on brother. We're both Redskin fans and want the best qb we can get next year. [B]We all might have different opinions about who that might be. At the end of the day we both want the same thing. To be honest, as long as we get a franchise guy I don't shiit what his name is. As long as he's a guy who's going to be here and perform at a high level for many years. Truce?[/B][/quote]

That's the stance I had from the beginning. I have no desire to bicker with you.

Moving on...

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

I just want a QB

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;862993]Are you asking me if I agree? If I like Cousins? If I've heard of any interest in Cousins?[/quote]I'm asking if you agree with the sentiment that Cousins fits what we're trying to do really well.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

No one is talking about LSU and their QB Jarrett Lee 6ft 2, 206 lbs. Is there something wrong with him? LSU is #1 right now.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SBXVII;863024]No one is talking about LSU and their QB Jarrett Lee 6ft 2, 206 lbs. Is there something wrong with him? LSU is #1 right now.[/quote]He can't throw?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;863025]He can't throw?[/quote]

LOL Lee is a HORRIBLE Passer

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;863025]He can't throw?[/quote]

Wow, last week it was all he did was throw deep and acurate. I'll defer cause I honestly don't watch a ton of college FB but I've noticed that LSU is winning and winning big most of it's games. On top of that they are ranked #1 which would lead me to believe they have a good QB that makes good decisions. .... and no one has been talking about him. At all.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SBXVII;863027]Wow, last week it was all he did was throw deep and acurate. I'll defer cause I honestly don't watch a ton of college FB but I've noticed that LSU is winning and winning big most of it's games. On top of that they are ranked #1 which would lead me to believe they have a good QB that makes good decisions. .... and no one has been talking about him. At all.[/quote]


He's a solid college QB but I don't see him in the NFL as a starter

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SBXVII;863027]Wow, last week it was all he did was throw deep and acurate. I'll defer cause I honestly don't watch a ton of college FB but I've noticed that LSU is winning and winning big most of it's games. On top of that they are ranked #1 which would lead me to believe they have a good QB that makes good decisions. .... and no one has been talking about him. At all.[/quote]Well, LSU's best quarterback is Jordan Jefferson, who at least interests me because of his size and skill set and arm, but I don't think he'll do anything in the NFL either.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;863015]RG is barely six feet tall according to several people. Scouts seem to love RT's upside[/quote]

RGIII is much more athletic than Moore, so he has more in his arsenal. Besides, I mentioned RGIII with the others because he is put in that category by most people. Personally, I prefer a taller QB. If Jones and Barkley don't come out then I wouldn't know what to do other than to draft RGIII. If none of those three comes out, I probably wouldn't draft a QB before the third round (I also would cry softly into my pillow).

I don't really know if Cousins is a good fit here or anywhere as a starter quite honestly.

I know I've said I've heard the Skins aren't interested in Barkley...but I also don't believe it. The more I watch of him I can't see why we wouldn't be. A lot of people suspect though that the Browns will do whatever it takes to ensure they get him...if he comes out.

Which brings me back to something else I had brought up a while back. Rumor is Colt McCoy might be available. So if he was and we didn't get a QB in the 1st, what's more tempting-draft a guy like Moore in the 3rd or 4th or trade that pick for McCoy?

Don't think Tyler Wilson will come out but if he did he'd certainly be worth considering

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;863028]He's a solid college QB but I don't see him in the NFL as a starter[/quote]

lsu's weakest link is the quarterback position and has been since jamarcus russell left. neither jefferson nor lee have a future in the nfl, no way.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;863032]Don't think Tyler Wilson will come out but if he did he'd certainly be worth considering[/quote]There's a lot of raw throwers in college to keep our eyes on -- even though we're probably taking a QB high in 2012 -- in future years. Wilson, Tyler Bray, Aaron Murray, Casey Pachall, and a few others.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;863031]I don't really know if Cousins is a good fit here or anywhere as a starter quite honestly.

I know I've said I've heard the Skins aren't interested in Barkley...but I also don't believe it. The more I watch of him I can't see why we wouldn't be. A lot of people suspect though that the Browns will do whatever it takes to ensure they get him...if he comes out.

Which brings me back to something else I had brought up a while back. Rumor is Colt McCoy might be available. So if he was and we didn't get a QB in the 1st, what's more tempting-draft a guy like Moore in the 3rd or 4th or trade that pick for McCoy?[/quote]I'd imagine that it would cost more than that to draft Kellen Moore, but I'd trade for McCoy as soon as Moore is off the board.

The advantage to McCoy is the mobility, but I think that Kellen Moore has all the similar strengths to McCoy, but is simply more proficient at a lot of those strengths. All of that said, it would seem like the last two weeks probably did a lot to change the "availability" of Colt McCoy.

The way things are going to work out, it seems like were talking about a no. 2 QB here.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;863035]There's a lot of raw throwers in college to keep our eyes on -- even though we're probably taking a QB high in 2012 -- in future years. Wilson, Tyler Bray, Aaron Murray, Casey Pachall, and a few others.[/quote]

throw in brynn renner, logan thomas, and derek carr (david carr's little brother)

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;863031]I don't really know if Cousins is a good fit here or anywhere as a starter quite honestly.

I know I've said I've heard the Skins aren't interested in Barkley...but I also don't believe it. The more I watch of him I can't see why we wouldn't be. A lot of people suspect though that the Browns will do whatever it takes to ensure they get him...if he comes out.

Which brings me back to something else I had brought up a while back. Rumor is Colt McCoy might be available. So if he was and we didn't get a QB in the 1st, what's more tempting-draft a guy like Moore in the 3rd or 4th or trade that pick for McCoy?[/quote]

Here's a very good article by Michael Silver on McCoy, apparently his old OC was a total dick:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AuceNjEaDyjOdHgQFoCq7Bs5nYcB?slug=ms-silver_colt_mccoy_browns_brian_daboll_112411]McCoy develops thick skin after rookie hazing - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

That's a good article

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

My top QB's for 2012 draft

Luck- 1st pick 1st round
Barkley- top 5 1st rounder
RGIII/Landry Jones 5-10 1st round
Russell Wilson 2nd round (mid to late)
Weeden 3rd round pick
Tannehill 2nd to 3rd round pick
Cousins
Foles
Lindley sleeper pick
Keenum
Moore

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

I'd take colt McCoy

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SBXVII;863027]Wow, last week it was all he did was throw deep and acurate. I'll defer cause I honestly don't watch a ton of college FB but I've noticed that LSU is winning and winning big most of it's games. On top of that they are ranked #1 which would lead me to believe they have a good QB that makes good decisions. .... and no one has been talking about him. At all.[/quote]


Ever hear of a QB from LSU named Russell? He looked great also in college. All kidding aside Jefferson just might be something to think about, but then LSU is in a league of its own. It boggles the mind why the NCAA doesn't investigate schools like OU or LSU. I mean please, Louisiana is a total shithole minus the Big Easy, and then even that isn't all that either. Same with Oklahoma, another average state university in a rather shitty state, but they have all these kids coming in to play football from all over the place.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=tc2deuce;863048]My top QB's for 2012 draft

Luck- 1st pick 1st round
Barkley- top 5 1st rounder
RGIII/Landry Jones 5-10 1st round
Russell Wilson 2nd round (mid to late)
Weeden 3rd round pick
Tannehill 2nd to 3rd round pick
Cousins
Foles
Lindley sleeper pick
Keenum
Moore[/quote]

russell wilson is about 5-10/5-11,i doubt he will be a 2nd rounder.

and guys, jordan jefferson seriously? hes not any good. hes never looked all that great. lsu wins with excellent defense, not good quarterback play.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Whoever wrote that they heard a rumor that Luck may stay, let me kill that rumor now. He was on ESPN with Steve Young a few weeks ago, and Steve asked him if it was his last year at Stanford. Andrew said Yes it is.

And yes, this QB class is 3 great QB's (should they all declare), 2 potentially good QB's, and a bunch of back ups and busts.

Don't bother with Matt Flynn, he seems like a Kevin Kolb all over again. Go with the unknown, rather than the known or somewhat known. BTW part of the reason Flynn did so good against the Pats was because they didn't know what to expect from him.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;863052]Ever hear of a QB from LSU named Russell? He looked great also in college. All kidding aside Jefferson just might be something to think about, but then LSU is in a league of its own. It boggles the mind why the NCAA doesn't investigate schools like OU or LSU. I mean please, Louisiana is a total shithole minus the Big Easy, and then even that isn't all that either. Same with Oklahoma, another average state university in a rather shitty state, but they have all these kids coming in to play football from all over the place.[/quote]

Funny seeing how most of the LSU players are from the state of Louisana. And Jarett Lee has never looked great.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;862920]I think that both Barkley and Landry would be smart to enter the draft. I truly don't understand how any player who would probably be picked in the Top 10 in the draft would stay in school. I know that some players can get insurance against injury but I think that if I were that player's parent I would advise him to come out and get the money while he can. It's just too risky to stay in school when there is so much money at stake.[/quote]

Money's not the most important factor when it comes to certain kids. It usually makes sense for those who need it more than others, but Barkley comes from a financially stable family (he was born in Newport Beach).

In terms of why he'd stay? How about the return of all of the important skill players (in addition to possibly Kalil), the chance to win a ring and the potential to smash all quarterback records at USC. He's suffered through the sanctions... one more year may have been the reason he stayed.

Having said that, it would be unreal if he went from the cardinal and gold to the B&G.