Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;884808]Meh.....the blog has the same old same old stuff. I breezed thru it. Basically the same angst thats been re hashed here all year.

[B]Mike Shanahan does not have my full support right now because he has screwed the pooch in the QB situation since he got here.[/B]
He needs to hit a home run this year or I'm calling for his head.
[B]He needs to work with Kyle more also (or replace him).[/B]
I dont trust Kyles play calling for squat.[/quote]

My response to this post is partly an answer and partly question. I beleive that the point on the QB position is somewhat valid and relates in part to the fact that Mike gave Kyle too much leash on recommending/selecting a QB.

On the other hand, I do not blame MS at all for the McNabb mess. As I have said before, I am not an insider like some of you guys obviously are, but my reading of the McNabb situation would tend to point blame directly at Snyder. I recall reading a story that indicated Snyder was parading McNabb around town and introducing him as Redskin QB even before he signed a contract. I think that whole deal was a Snyder ego trip; he lapsed into Jerry Jones mode on that signing.

And so, that's my question. Is my perception of the McNabb mess accurate?

Otherwise, I think the Shanaclan has done a good job with the Redskins rebuild. Certainly, I would not rate their work as great, and there is room for improvement, but on the whole, they seem to have the Redskins moving in a positive direction. While its time to show some improvement, I am generally satisfied with the team's draft and general direction.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;884968]So you basically said Kyle doesn't need experience because his dad has it.
Thats a setback for us.
We've been losing for long enough.
The future is now.......[/quote]

I am saying that if Kyle's "inexperience" is a problem, I think MS can step in and help out. I don't think experience is a problem with Kyle, and I don't think it has been a setback.

What has been a setback is wasting picks on a washed up QB, not securing a QB of the future, pin your second season on the arm of two guys who are backups at best, going into a d*ck swinging contest with a guy that should've been cut (AH) in the first place, not adjusting your playcalling to the talent you have, building the offense from the get go instead of focusing on a defense, etc., etc., etc.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

My mistake guys (and possible gals?), didn't know about the blog posting rule. Really wasn't trying to 'promote' my blog, just wanted some good feedback, which I have gotten for the most part. Figured it would have been safer to post a Redskins blog verses something with the Nationals.

I'll stick a link in the signature - and believe me, I'll be around ;)

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;884898]When dealing with QBs, it's always better to draft your own. Sometimes giving up draft choices in order to attain the QB you need is always the best way to go. At the 2004 draft, the NYG gave the San Diego Chargers a boat load of draft choices in order to land Eli Manning. Two Super Bowl championships later, I'd say that deal worked out pretty well for the Giants.

If the Redskins want to be successful, then they have to do what's best for the organization. I doubt if RG3 will be a bust. He'll undergo hardship in the NFL as a rookie, but he'll be fine once the game slows down for him.

As far as Kyle Orton, he's certainly better than Grossman and Beck. But this organization needs a young QB, not another free agent signed.[/quote]

On the other hand, The Saints won a Super Bowl with Drew Brees, The Redskins won a Super Bowl with Joe Theismann and Doug Williams, The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer (although he's probably a bad example), and many have at least brought their new team deep in the playoffs. The point with drafting Manning isn't that he would be the only option. The team WOULD STILL draft a quarterback, they would just not have to throw him into the fire from the start...which more times than not, is the best way to go.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=DC Tailgate;884992]My mistake guys (and possible gals?), didn't know about the blog posting rule. Really wasn't trying to 'promote' my blog, just wanted some good feedback, which I have gotten for the most part. Figured it would have been safer to post a Redskins blog verses something with the Nationals.

I'll stick a link in the signature - and believe me, I'll be around ;)[/quote]

No worries.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

I liked the article. I will let the peanut gallery handle the fine details of how much I agree or disagree.

I think Kyle Shanahan has a long coaching career ahead of him. I think Mike has held Kyle back at least as much if not more than Kyle has held Mike back.

With that said, I don't think he's a good offensive coordinator. I don't think it's a qualification issue, and I think while he might get better as he gets more experience, Kyle runs a very limited offensive system. I've said many times there is good theory behind it, but there are no seeds of being an offensive genius or whatever label you'd put on the best playcallers in the game. Playcalling is generally overrated anyway, but when you see the week-to-week gameplans, it's hard to think that an influx of talent is going to open things up.

In terms of the passing game, what Kyle does call, he seems to understand quite well. A defense requires a certain level of talent to stop what the Redskins have in the passing game. If they have it, you see games like the San Francisco one or either Philadelphia one where clearly, the Redskins aren't going to move the ball at all. Once you have Kyle's number, he typically needs more than 3 hours to figure out how to work his way out of the clutches of the defense.

I'm not going to rank Kyle among other offensive coordinators, as there are some other poor ones out there, I just think that if you assume we're going to see something different in 2012 from the offense than we saw in 2011, I think we're just misunderstanding what Kyle wants to do with his offense. Kyle wants to create chances for clean throws down the field, and he generally takes the majority of the mental work out of the hands of the QB. Having a rookie under center next year isn't going to change that, it's going to make the Redskins even more of a system team.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

I just dont buy the "Kyle is inexperienced" line. He has been in coaching since 2003 and has 3 seasons as an offensive coordinator. Kyle may be many things but inexperienced isnt one of them.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

Defending Kyle, on any level at this juncture, is sure sign of kool-aid coming out the nose.

For much of the season "his" offense looked unprepared on game days. There was no tempo. Play-calling was often as bad as any in the league, whether it was abandoning the run with an extremely mistake prone QB or sticking with the run...the same run...over and over until the defense didn't even have to guess.

Kyle is (still) here for one reason...his last name.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=The Goat;885004]Defending Kyle, on any level at this juncture, is sure sign of kool-aid coming out the nose.

For much of the season "his" offense looked unprepared on game days. There was no tempo. Play-calling was often as bad as any in the league, whether it was abandoning the run with an extremely mistake prone QB or sticking with the run...the same run...over and over until the defense didn't even have to guess.

Kyle is (still) here for one reason...his last name.[/quote]

It wasnt that his offense was unprepared, it was that he had no talent on offense to work with.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=irish;885005]It wasnt that his offense was unprepared, it was that he had no talent on offense to work with.[/quote]

I wouldn't bother getting in front of the illogical hate train. You'll most assuredly be ran over. Hatters gonna hat.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

If we had a QB named Schaub along with a WR named Andre Johnson, things just might be a little different. Offensive coordinators aren't miracle workers. You need the talent first and foremost.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Mattyk;885007]If we had a QB named Schaub along with a WR named Andre Johnson, things just might be a little different. Offensive coordinators aren't miracle workers. You need the talent first and foremost.[/quote]

That's why a healthy Manning to Bowe combination would be real interesting to see in this offense.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=skinsguy;885011]That's why a healthy Manning to Bowe combination would be real interesting to see in this offense.[/quote]

...or a healthy Manning to Colston...or a healthy Manning to VJax; all of this while Tannehill sits int he sideline paying attention and soaking in all the information.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

I've been hearing people say we shouldn't take Peyton b/c look at what happened with McNabb.

Really its comparing apples and oranges. Peyton I don't think fits our scheme well but as long as we can taylor our scheme towards Peyton some it will certainly have better results than McNabb. McNabb used to be mobile and he was never incredibly accurate. The only real question is can we protect peyton long enough and give him enough weapons to be dangerous. I am willing to make that gamble.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

Also, with Manning you no longer need a WR coach. Peyton will do it.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Mattyk;885007]If we had a QB named Schaub along with a WR named Andre Johnson, things just might be a little different. Offensive coordinators aren't miracle workers. You need the talent first and foremost.[/quote]Yeah, that's why I try to lean on the word limited instead of bad. Bad describes anything designing Rex Grossman or John Beck handing off to Ryan Torain or throwing to Mike Sellers. Having Josh McDaniels calling plays wouldn't make that group of talent something other than bad. Limited better describes Kyle's offensive philosophy.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=irish;885005]It wasnt that his offense was unprepared, it was that he had no talent on offense to work with.[/quote]

Ahhh! The eternal argument of sports talk. Talent or scheme, talent or scheme? We never get to a consensus on this issue!

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=The Goat;885004]Defending Kyle, on any level at this juncture, is sure sign of kool-aid coming out the nose.

For much of the season "his" offense looked unprepared on game days. There was no tempo. Play-calling was often as bad as any in the league, whether it was abandoning the run with an extremely mistake prone QB or sticking with the run...the same run...over and over until the defense didn't even have to guess.

Kyle is (still) here for one reason...his last name.[/quote]


It seems to me that once an offense has proved to have worked and worked well, it's because of the parts in that offense. As we all recall, when Kyle Shanahan was the OC for Houston in 2009, the Texans ended up having the 4th best offense after 16 games that year in the NFL. In Kyle Shanahan's defense, he's had to coach an offensive system with limited talent in Washington. Mike Shanahan told him before he was hired as offensive coordinator that this Redskins team was a rebuilding project. So, this is a rebuilding project and a lot of Redskins fans may disagree, but I feel Kyle Shanahan has done a excellent job considering the limited talent, namely at quarterback for the past two seasons.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

I think Kyle has made some mistakes here and there with his calls, but overall (even though I've been critical of him as well), I believe he has done a decent job with what he's had to work with.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=redskin29633;885302]Ahhh! The eternal argument of sports talk. Talent or scheme, talent or scheme? We never get to a consensus on this issue![/quote]

I think fans generally put way too much emphasis on play calling, when most of the time it boils down to talent or execution.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

^^ This. Really, who made plays for us this year? How many times did you a player get more than a play was designed for? Helu's leap, maybe a catch hear or there - but really that's about it.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

i tend to think of it as bad coaching. IMO good coaches adapt to the players they have. not trying to implement a system regardless

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=dmek25;885786]i tend to think of it as bad coaching. IMO good coaches adapt to the players they have. not trying to implement a system regardless[/quote]

So, do you think Mike Shanahan is a bad coach?

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=dmek25;885786]i tend to think of it as bad coaching. IMO good coaches adapt to the players they have. not trying to implement a system regardless[/quote]

Precisely. The best coaches change scheme to fit players. Belichick has changed his scheme so dramatically over the years one year is almost unrecognizable against another. The Brady/Moss offense is nothing like the scheme Belichick and Brady put together last season. And don't give me a line about them losing the SB...they were in that game but Brady didn't have his best day. So ultimately yes it takes both scheme and player performance to win consistently.

But you cannot really say Mike and Kyle did a lousy job tailoring scheme to the roster these past two years, because that implies trying, which they did not.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

If only we had a Brady, that alone would make things a lot easier

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

Could have if Barkley didn't go back :(

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Mattyk;885838]If only we had a Brady, that alone would make things a lot easier[/quote]

If you mean to imply only the best QBs can adapt to different offensive schemes I couldn't disagree more. But maybe I assumed something you didn't mean?

Jeff Garcia, as an underwhelming example, played in like four dozen different offenses and adapted pretty well to them all.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Mattyk;885838]If only we had a Brady, that alone would make things a lot easier[/quote]

Wait! PM is a Brady! I think I get it :)

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=The Goat;885867]If you mean to imply only the best QBs can adapt to different offensive schemes I couldn't disagree more. But maybe I assumed something you didn't mean?

Jeff Garcia, as an underwhelming example, played in like four dozen different offenses and adapted pretty well to them all.[/quote]

I'm saying talent > scheme.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

[quote=Mattyk;885934]I'm saying talent > scheme.[/quote]

Exactly. Put Grossman in a Patriots uniform and see if they achieve the same success.

Re: DCT: Shanahan Leading Redskins in Right Direction
 

a talented schemer is hard to hold like a fish