Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=The Dull Roar;911320]I'd hate to see us prematurely cut Gano. I could easily see him pulling a Suisham and going somewhere else and being near perfect. He has a lot of potential and is still young. I say keep him.[/quote]

Suisham came back down to earth last year, 23/31

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Lotus;911344]I see it as a camp competition to be won by the best player. If so, it's a good move. Gano can return but only if he brings his A game.[/quote]

Yup, let the best man win. Rackers has to be the favorite.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

Again, the new Skins motto is clearly competition at every spot. I like Gano, always have. But let him compete through camp, work on his timing and accuracy, and may the best man wins.

Personally I am still counting on the Redskins bringing both Luck and Griffin in (trading the rest of our next two drafts to Indy after they take luck of course) and let the best man win that competition too!

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

Didnt Rackers make like a record number of fg's in a row then blew a game winner against the Bears that "let'em off the hook"???

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911326]what the hell are you talking about? Hes been one of the worst kickers percentage-wise in the league the last couple years.

Dont mince words, Gano is horrible[/quote]

Take away those blocks and he's not. Why do fans keep acting as if the blocks are his fault? That falls on the OL and ST coach.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911360]Take away those blocks and he's not. Why do fans keep acting as if the blocks are his fault? That falls on the OL and ST coach.[/quote]

either get it done or dont. he hasnt. This is not last year but his entire, short career. the percentages are on him. We will see how many Big Rack has blocked.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911326]what the hell are you talking about? Hes been one of the worst kickers percentage-wise in the league the last couple years.

Dont mince words, Gano is horrible[/quote]

Be easy on the guy Chico!!! If it wasnt for some of his misses we wouldnt be gettin RGIII!! Its the class theory thingy water stuff.....

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

When I see Gano and a reference to his skills as "elite" I tend to freak out. sorry

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911362]either get it done or dont. he hasnt. This is not last year but his entire, short career. the percentages are on him. We will see how many Big Rack has blocked.[/quote]

So now kickers are responsible for their own blocking. Got it.


I understand that he was inconsistent his first year, but wasn't David Akers when he was here? I'm sure guys like you were wanting him pushed out of town too. He did fine last year with kicks under his control (read...not blocked) so let's let the guy develop please.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911370]So now kickers are responsible for their own blocking. Got it.


I understand that he was inconsistent his first year, but wasn't David Akers when he was here? I'm sure guys like you were wanting him pushed out of town too. He did fine last year with kicks under his control (read...not blocked) so let's let the guy develop please.[/quote]

Completely agree with you in terms of the blocked field goals. There were definitely two situations in which a blocker came free to block the field goal last offseason. In one case, Fred Davis did not chip at one of the defenders coming from the outside. And the other is the Calais Campbell one that I've been joking about on this thread. I forgot who it was, but two Redskins players let Campbell go through untouched.

I just found this on youtube, this basically shows Will Montgomery (#63) get completely owned by Red Bryant in both FG blocks:

[YT]62D6IVjBTPY[/YT]

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911370]So now kickers are responsible for their own blocking. Got it.


I understand that he was inconsistent his first year, but wasn't David Akers when he was here? I'm sure guys like you were wanting him pushed out of town too. He did fine last year with kicks under his control (read...not blocked) so let's let the guy develop please.[/quote]

Is there any evidence that kickers get better with age/experience? I'm not so sure how much developing a kicker can really do.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=hooskins;911345]I would be curious to see the breakdown and percentages with each distance.[/quote]

Ask and you shall receive. From last season:
Rackers:
18-29: 14/14, 100%
30-39: 10/11, 90.9%
40-49: 4/8, 50%
50+: 4/5, 80%
Gano:
18-29: 14/15, 93.3%
30-39: 5/9, 55.6%
40-49: 8/11, 72.3%
50+: 4/6, 66.7%

(source: Sports Illustrated)


[I]EDIT: Formatting[/I]

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=jdlea;911377]Ask and you shall receive. From last season:
Rackers:
18-29 30-39 40-49 50+
14/14 10/11 4/8 4/5
100% 90.9% 50% 80%

Gano:
18-29 30-39 40-49 50+
14/15 5/9 8/11 4/6
93.3% 55.6% 72.3% 66.7%

(source: Sports Illustrated)[/quote]

I wonder how those numbers shake out if blocked kicks are removed.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/kicking/sort/fieldGoalPct/year/2010]2010 NFL Player Kicking Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/url]

go to kicking percentages: 2010: 68% worst in the league

2011: massive improvement: 3rd worst in the league at 75.6%


oh then the Sushi arguement: 74.2%, worst in the league last year for Pittsburgs. Guess I was right bout him too.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

Gano numbers


(without blocks)


FGA - 41
FGM - 36 (add 5 due to blocks)


FG % - 87.8%




That's a 12% increase from the 75% he's currently at due to those blocks. You do realize if those 5 kicks aren't blocked he's ranked as one of the best FG kickers in the league? It's amazing what a 12% swing on your stats will do. From goat to hero.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

oh so you automatically count the block field goals as makes? brillant.

Well with Gano's historical percentages, you should right?

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet:

[yt]sZghatdM8mo[/yt]

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

Gano's percentage is pretty bad. I thought it was interesting that he was near the top at the 40-49 range, while he is near the bottom or in the middle below that range. A low FG percentage shouldn't guarantee you a spot on the team, and I welcome competition. Still, I feel that Gano gets a hounded more for those blocked FG (which are not his fault).

In the end, I really don't want the team to depend on FGs anymore, so I am not going to get worked up over whether we should keep Gano or Rackers.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911389]oh so you automatically count the block field goals as makes? brillant.

Well with Gano's historical percentages, you should right?[/quote]

Well, probably makes more sense to take the attempts away, so 31 out of 36 non blocked attempts. Still gives Gano an 86%. That's not bad, but you may argue that he's responsible for half his blocks (too slow to the kick, too low a kicking angle) so then 31 out of 39, which would put him at 79%. I don't know where that puts him in terms of the league. In my mind, it certainly doesn't equate with an unchallenged spot on the team, but it also doesn't equate to being let go as a failed kicker.

I do remember the GB overtime game where he came on and won it, just one game, but it was an extremely clutch kick, and I think he has the make up to be a long term kicker in this league.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911389]oh so you automatically count the block field goals as makes? brillant.

Well with Gano's historical percentages, you should right?[/quote]

I don't care about Gano nor I am an apologist, but I do like to argue just for the sake of argument. Have you seen those blocked FGs? Have you seen the terrible job players in the line did in all of those situations? You make good points on the low FG pct and the missed FGs. And that alone should call for a FG competition...but just let the blocked FGs go.

If you want to call out mediocrity, see Will Montgomery getting blasted and allowing two FGs to be blocked in the Seattle game.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911389]oh so you automatically count the block field goals as makes? brillant.

Well with Gano's historical percentages, you should right?[/quote]

You are correct that we should not count blocks as made field goals. Instead, let's just subtract them as attempts. That leaves Gano at 24/30 which is 80%. This number is more respectable...although still in the bottom half of the league.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Ruhskins;911391]Gano's percentage is pretty bad. I thought it was interesting that he was near the top at the 40-49 range, while he is near the bottom or in the middle below that range. A low FG percentage shouldn't guarantee you a spot on the team, and I welcome competition. Still, I feel that Gano gets a hounded more for those blocked FG (which are not his fault).

[B][U]In the end, I really don't want the team to depend on FGs anymore[/U][/B], so I am not going to get worked up over whether we should keep Gano or Rackers.[/quote]


Truth.


Wasn't most of his blocks within that range he was horrible at? Would probably account for why he was so horrible in that one range. Hell, the dude even had a PAT blocked this past year. Crappy OL play FTL.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Lotus;911383]I wonder how those numbers shake out if blocked kicks are removed.[/quote]

Not if sure if you're serious, but you'd better appreciate this:
Gano's blocks: 30*, 49, 49**, 23, 36

Now his stats are more like:
Gano:
18-29: 14/14, 100%
30-39: 5/7, 71.4%
40-49: 8/9, 88.9%
50+: 4/6, 66.7%

Total: 31/36, 86.1%


*Reported yardage adjusted due to conflicting reports
**Coaches said the kick was too low

That's what Gano's percentages look like if you completely remove the blocked kicks from his attempts. Personally, I'm not really in favor of this because sometimes the kicks don't get up quick enough and it's not always the line's fault.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Ruhskins;911394]I don't care about Gano nor I am an apologist, but I do like to argue just for the sake of argument. Have you seen those blocked FGs? Have you seen the terrible job players in the line did in all of those situations? You make good points on the low FG pct and the missed FGs. And that alone should call for a FG competition...but just let the blocked FGs go.

If you want to call out mediocrity, see Will Montgomery getting blasted and allowing two FGs to be blocked in the Seattle game.[/quote]

A great kicker goes out to the field alone, blocks for himself and kicks the ball through the goal post.


Gano had a couple kickoffs out of bounds in pivotal games this past year. One really help swing a game, but forget which game...SS a little help?

Wouldnt mind if we carried 2, Gano kicking off, but the dude has to get better, we shouldnt just settle for his production when so many of our games are close.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Lotus;911396]You are correct that we should not count blocks as made field goals. Instead, let's just subtract them as attempts. That leaves Gano at[B] 24/30 [/B]which is 80%. This number is more respectable...although still in the bottom half of the league.[/quote]


Where are you getting these numbers? His numbers were 41 attempts and 31 made.


41 attempts -5 = 36

So divide 31 FGs made by 36 attempts and whaalaaa...


31/36 = 86%

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=jdlea;911399]Not if sure if you're serious, but you'd better appreciate this:
Gano's blocks: 30*, 49, 49**, 23, 36

Now his stats are more like:
Gano:
18-29: 14/14, 100%
30-39: 5/7, 71.4%
40-49: 8/9, 88.9%
50+: 4/6, 66.7%


*Reported yardage adjusted due to conflicting reports
**Coaches said the kick was too low

That's what Gano's percentages look like if you completely remove the blocked kicks from his attempts. Personally, I'm not really in favor of this because sometimes the kicks don't up quick enough and it's not always the line's fault.[/quote]

Thank you, that is excellent research! The stats you posted before made him look abysmal inside 40 yards, which is why I asked. Put this way he looks better, although still not great.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Chico23231;911400]A great kicker goes out to the field alone, blocks for himself and kicks the ball through the goal post.


Gano had a couple kickoffs out of bounds in pivotal games this past year. One really help swing a game, but forget which game...SS a little help?

Wouldnt mind if we carried 2, Gano kicking off, [B]but the dude has to get better[/B], we shouldnt just settle for his production when so many of our games are close.[/quote]

I would say that the Rackers signing shows that this may be the sentiment among the coaches. I would mind if we carried two kickers, I'd rather have roster spot for another player (o-line, d-line).

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911403]Where are you getting these numbers? His numbers were 41 attempts and 31 made.


41 attempts -5 = 36

So divide 31 FGs made by 36 attempts and whaalaaa...


36/31 = 86%[/quote]

Actually, 36/31 = 1.16%. Amazing!!! :laughing2

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=jdlea;911406]Actually, 36/31 = 1.16%. Amazing!!! :laughing2[/quote]

had that backwards.....31/36 :cheeky-sm

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

If Rackers is so good then why is Houston letting him go? Maybe a very small upgrade but I certainly don't see a major one.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911410]had that backwards.....31/36 :cheeky-sm[/quote]

Yeah, just giving you a hard time :food-smil

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=skinsfan69;911412]If Rackers is so good then why is Houston letting him go? Maybe a very small upgrade but I certainly don't see a major one.[/quote]

Houston has let a lot of key guys walk this offseason.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

I think we have guys on the team that could return kicks and punts. I'd rather have a more accurate kicker in Rackers, and have Gano for the kickoffs and long attempts. But doubt that will happen. I think Gano's time is going to be short lived.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

I wouldn't assume all 5 blocked are makes and I wouldn't assumed all 5 should be removed from the equation altogether. I would assume that 3 out of the 5 were made based on his historical % accuracy on FGs, considering the distance at which they were blocked. Most of the blocks occurred on longer (40+) attempts. 3 out of 5 on those feels right.

But even that's not entirely fair unless Rackers went all year without one blocked. But whatever...

So I get:
34 Makes, 41 Attempts: 83%

Solid. But even giving him 3 out of 5 might be generous. In the Red Bryant Seahawks game, those two blocks were on Will Montgomery. But throughout the rest of the year you heard Shanahan rail on Gano in postgames for needing to get the ball airborne faster.

Ultimately I'd treat Gano as a kicker with a strong and adequate leg, but he's not somebody I'd put back there with the confidence that he can win a playoff game for me in the 4th quarter with 45 yarder with time running out.

He's done enough to earn the right to compete for a job, but he shouldn't be guaranteed a job without competition.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911410]had that backwards.....31/36 :cheeky-sm[/quote]

You are tempting me to start a new "Mathematical Errors Found on the Warpath" signature. LOL.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=skinsfan69;911412]If Rackers is so good then why is Houston letting him go? Maybe a very small upgrade but I certainly don't see a major one.[/quote]

Cap space dood. Just because a team lets a player go doesn't mean the player is garbage. Houston let Mario Williams go. I guess he's garbage too?!

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=Ruhskins;911373]I just found this on youtube, this basically shows Will Montgomery (#63) get completely owned by Red Bryant in both FG blocks:

[YT]62D6IVjBTPY[/YT][/quote]

The first time it happens doesnt bother me that much. But the 2nd time makes me think you are weak and you are doing the best that you can - I seriously hope we draft a center/guard.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=SkinzWin;911432]Cap space dood. Just because a team lets a player go doesn't mean the player is garbage. Houston let Mario Williams go. I guess he's garbage too?![/quote]

I never said he was garbage. I just don't think Rackers is a major upgrade over Gano. As others have said, some of the blocking was terrible on fg/pat's. However I don't think Gano is good enough where he shouldn't have competition either. I still think with Gano being a bit younger that he's still our kicker come Sept.

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

how many kick did we have blocked last year? i feel like it may be some sort of modern record

Re: Redskins sign kicker Neil Rackers
 

[quote=los panda;911471]how many kick did we have blocked last year? i feel like it may be some sort of modern record[/quote]

5 FGs, 1 XP