Will Griffin have the decidedly secondary and possibly empty/meaningless Rookie season statisitcal bragging rights?
 

[quote=firstdown;917809]A rookie season does not make or break a QB.[/quote]Very true and patently obvious.
But you're creating a maybe unintentional strawman.
I certainly haven't said that a rookie season makes or breaks a QB and I don't think anyone else in this thread has...

Any thoughts on which QB (Luck or Griffin) has better stats in their non-career predicitve/non-make or break rookie season?

or

Which teams has better offensive weapons? Us or the Colts?

or

What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype?

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;917808]What are realistic expectations for the Colts? I'd say 5-6 wins.[/quote]I can't remember where but last week on the radio I heard that Vegas had the Colts 6-10, I feel pretty good about the Burgundy and Gold chances to have a better record then 6-10.

But, I guess I'm the only one that admits that I not only want a better W/L record I want statisitcal superiority over Luck this year.
[quote=Mattyk]I do like the rookie TE's they added, but they'll be facing a learning curve along with Luck. [/quote]
If there was ever a QB prepared to handle the learning curve its supposed to be Luck right?
Afterall 2 spread QBs without an offseason program were able to light it up right away in a new offense.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;917822]I can't remember where but last week on the radio I heard that Vegas had the Colts 6-10, I feel pretty good about the Burgundy and Gold chances to have a better record then 6-10.

But, I guess I'm the only one that admits that I not only want a better W/L record I want statisitcal superiority over Luck this year.

If there was ever a QB prepared to handle the learning curve its supposed to be Luck right?
Afterall 2 spread QBs without an offseason program were able to light it up right away in a new offense.[/quote]

The only stat I care for RG3 to have over Luck is in wins. Sounds like your only concerned with numbers so you have something to point to next year. The rookie season will not tell if Luck was worth all the hype. Hell some pointed to RG3 as the better prospect. Not sure what your really asking.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

I think we'd all like to see RG3 put up some nice numbers, but in the end I don't care how he compares stats-wise to Luck or to anyone else.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=firstdown;917826]...Sounds like your only concerned with numbers[/quote]Rrrrriiiggghhhttt..........[quote=30gut;917672][U][SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkRed"]First and foremost[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U] I want the Redskins to [I]win[/I] more games this year...[/quote]

[quote=you]so you have something to point to next year. The rookie season will not tell if Luck was worth all the hype. Hell some pointed to RG3 as the better prospect.[/quote]I'm not sure how long you've been watching football but that's what happens people fans/media compare stats.

Personally I hope the same people that tout Luck as the best prospect since Peyton Manning and a clearly superior prospect to Cam Newton hold Cam's level of production as the benchmark for Luck's rookie season success.

BTW, I'm one of those people that think RG3 is the better prospect.

[quote=you]Not sure what your really asking.[/quote]C'mon, really?
My questions are obvious and very clearly stated in the title and the OP (which you quoted)
But for whatever reason you've chosen to [I]ignore[/I] them and argue a point that I'm not making, which is fine, maybe you think this is a pointless topic which is also fine you certainly don't have to answer or agree.
But what I'm asking is quite clear and whether you accept it or not Griff and Luck are always going to compared to each other.

Anyways I'll repeat the questions here: (although I'm sure you've already seen them)

Which teams has better offensive weapons? Us or the Colts?

What rookie season stats do you think Griffin and Luck will post?
(its not that complicated its like asking what stats will Trent Richarson and David Wilson put up)

What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype?
[I]**notice I'm asking a question here: [/I]but my inference from your statements is that Luck could post any rookie season stats and still justify the hype because rookie season stats don't matter? Would that be correct?

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Simply put I'm asking: which QB (Griffin/Luck) will put up better stats?

Here's some false assumptions about my question:

o I'm not saying that stats are more important then WINs you would think this goes without saying (especially since I actually say that first and foremost I want more WINs)

o I'm not making a value judgement nor a using their rookie season stats as an indication or predictive measure of their respective careers

I'm just curious about the our perceptions or expectations of Griffin and Lucks rookie seasons statistical production.

I'm also curious about what type of [I]rookie season[/I] production (if any) that Luck needs to hold on to the mantle of being a both a better prospect then Cam Newton and the greatest prospect since Peyton Manning/John Elway.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Maybe a poll would make things simpler?

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

30Gut - I think you keep confusing the issue when you tack on as an after thought about what Luck needs to do to prove/disprove the best prospect issue, as that probably is a long term question. Really will take 2 years at least to answer that statement.

Your OP/thread topic is a lot easier. I think Griffin has the better first season stats, he is coming into an offense/defense that has been together, and can fit into with his piece. In other words, we aren't building a lot of new pieces, even the WR's we added are veterans, and should just plug in, as opposed to rookies trying to figure out the whole NFL thing. Compare that to the Colts who have new everything and will take a year to get the whole offensive scheme and direction, plus having many new players, and losing lots of key veterans.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

btw-
thanks for getting the thread back on track

[quote=CRedskinsRule;917874]30Gut - I think you keep confusing the issue when you tack on as an after thought about what Luck needs to do to prove/disprove the best prospect issue, as that probably is a long term question. Really will take 2 years at least to answer that statement.[/quote]Of course it takes more then a rookie season to predict or know what type a QB a rookie will become.(I believe it takes about 36 starts depending on schematic continuity)
But, again I'm not asking for a career prediction based on this season.
I'm asking for opinion on whether or not there is a benchmark level of production Luck(i.e. the greatest prospect since Peyton Manning/John Elway) needs to reach THIS season to justify the hype.

And if someone thinks there is a statistical benchmark what is it?

Maybe there is no rookie year benchmark for some people.
Maybe some think regardless of his rookie year production the hype is warranted?

Maybe some think production on par with Blaine Gabbert is good enough to warrant his hype or maybe some others think production on must be at least on par with Andy Dalton?

Its just something I'm curious about that I didn't think warrants its own thread, so I figured it fit here.*shrugs*

[quote]I think Griffin has the better first season stats,[/quote]Cool, what do you think the ballpark will be? Close or wide margin?

[quote]Compare that to the Colts who have new everything and will take a year to get the whole offensive scheme and direction, plus having many new players, and losing lots of key veterans.[/quote]When I look at the success of Dalton and Newton in their new schemes without the benefit of an offseason, I have a hard time considering everything being new a stumbling block.
I think the Colts have replaced almost as many pieces as they've lost and still have enough pieces to field a quality offense.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;917869]Maybe a poll would make things simpler?[/quote]

Added a poll...attempted to show no bias whatsoever

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

the "your washington redskins" part reminded me of this
[YT]SdCzixCxZEQ[/YT]

i don't even like pro basketball, the bulls, or alan parsons but their intro used to give me goosbumps.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;917893]Added a poll...attempted to show no bias whatsoever[/quote]:) Thanks.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;917881]btw-
thanks for getting the thread back on track

Of course it takes more then a rookie season to predict or know what type a QB a rookie will become.(I believe it takes about 36 starts depending on schematic continuity)
But, again I'm not asking for a career prediction based on this season.
I'm asking for opinion on whether or not there is a benchmark level of production Luck(i.e. the greatest prospect since Peyton Manning/John Elway) needs to reach THIS season to justify the hype.

And if someone thinks there is a statistical benchmark what is it?

Maybe there is no rookie year benchmark for some people.
Maybe some think regardless of his rookie year production the hype is warranted?

Maybe some think production on par with Blaine Gabbert is good enough to warrant his hype or maybe some others think production on must be at least on par with Andy Dalton?

Its just something I'm curious about that I didn't think warrants its own thread, so I figured it fit here.*shrugs*[/quote]

It's fine to put it in here, I was just saying why I thought the two questions kept getting mixed.

I don't think 1st year production means much to long term prospect status. We all know Peyton had more INTs than TD's, and my first memory of Elway is him lining up behind the tackle not the center. The question will be how he masters and runs the offense, something neither ADalton or CNewton did, they just let their athleticism and ability show through, and their coaches allowed that to happen.

[quote=30gut;917881]Cool, what do you think the ballpark will be? Close or wide margin?[/quote]

Not very good at stats, just because there are so many variables, but here is a shot at it:

Luck 62% completion, 3100 yds (lots of completions with very little YAC), 23 TD/22 INT, 300 yds rushing, 4 Rushing TD

Griffin 67% completion, 3800 yds( some good YAC from Santana and FD/Cooley) 26TD/14INT, 700 yd rushing, 5 Rushing TD

[quote=30gut;917881]When I look at the success of Dalton and Newton in their new schemes without the benefit of an offseason, I have a hard time considering everything being new a stumbling block.
I think the Colts have replaced almost as many pieces as they've lost and still have enough pieces to field a quality offense.[/quote]
See above. I think people forget the Defenses had no offseason either. The fact that the Colts are coming in with a whole new staff, and booted many of their starting offensive players, Saturday, Clark, Garcon, simply means that more players are learning and starting for the first time. By definition that means that many players are learning the speed of the NFL game for the first time, and that should have an impact on the offensive output. You didn't have that in either Carolina or Cincinatti last year, there were a few pieces replaced, but not wholesale purging like Indy.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Thing is, we're all going to have to answer this question come fantasy draft season and there's no one out there who will be taking Luck ahead of Griffin in their fantasy draft.

So while the contrarian answer is that Luck will do better, the easy answer is Griffin will have better rookie numbers. Maybe (hopefully?) by a large margin.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Who was the one traitor?

I have a good guess.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

I still think this question has the obvious answer....

the Redskins have been in rebuild for 2 yrs and now have many pieces to the puzzle to include finally a QB. The Colts are just now starting to rebuild which means new scheme, new system, new players in key positions, new coaching staff, etc. etc. etc.

The Skins are farther ahead then the Colts are and should have a better season since the team picked up better WR's, a better QB, and better pieces to the defense.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

I voted for Luck. Why? Because I felt like someone had to. And then I saw the results and realized I'm not the only one who felt that way.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

i'm surprised by how lopsided the turn out
granted there was gonna to be some homerism
and i think negative perception of the Colts talent level plays a role too
interesing stuff,

I think Luck and Griffin are gonna have similar statistical production

Luck is gonna benefit from having the decidedly pass heavy Bruce Arians as his OC
Especially since the plan is to basically run a mix of Stanford offense using Peyton Manning's rookie season as the blue print

If given carte blanche Arians/Luck will pass the ball a [I]ton[/I] and inflate Luck's stats
I'm sure developing Luck will come first and wouldn't be surprised if Arians throws the ball 3 times in a row everytime they're on goalline just to get Luck a TD

Luck 3,800 26/22

Griffin 3,600 23/17

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;918175]i'm surprised by how lopsided the turn out
granted there was gonna to be some homerism
and i think negative perception of the Colts talent level plays a role too
interesing stuff,

I think Luck and Griffin are gonna have similar statistical production

Luck is gonna benefit from having the decidedly pass heavy Bruce Arians as his OC
Especially since the plan is to basically run a mix of Stanford offense using Peyton Manning's rookie season as the blue print

[B]If given carte blanche Arians/Luck will pass the ball a [I]ton[/I] and inflate Luck's stats
I'm sure developing Luck will come first and wouldn't be surprised if Arians throws the ball 3 times in a row everytime they're on goalline just to get Luck a TD[/B]

Luck 3,800 26/22

Griffin 3,600 23/17[/quote]

What's your reasoning?

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;918175[B]][B][B]i'm surprised by how lopsided the turn out
granted there was gonna to be some homerism [/B][/B][/B]
and i think negative perception of the Colts talent level plays a role too
interesing stuff,

I think Luck and Griffin are gonna have similar statistical production

Luck is gonna benefit from having the decidedly pass heavy Bruce Arians as his OC
Especially since the plan is to basically run a mix of Stanford offense using Peyton Manning's rookie season as the blue print

If given carte blanche Arians/Luck will pass the ball a [I]ton[/I] and inflate Luck's stats
I'm sure developing Luck will come first and wouldn't be surprised if Arians throws the ball 3 times in a row everytime they're on goalline just to get Luck a TD

Luck 3,800 26/22

Griffin 3,600 23/17[/quote]


Lots of Kool Aide drinking going on around here, self included. :)

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;918176]What's your reasoning?[/quote]

First Bruce Arians is notoriously pass heavy.

I can't find it quoted anywhere anymore but Phil Simms said that franchise QBs are fostered through playcalling; Simms gave the example of throwing the ball 4 times on the goalline.
Putting the focus on developing the QB is the approach Chudzinski took with Cam Newton and its the approach Tom Moore took with Manning as a rookie when Arians was the QB coach so he has first hand experience with this style of grooming.
Imo when you turn the page on Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck falls in your lap I think the entire franchise understands that its gonna be all about developing Andrew Luck.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

In all seriousness, you can't compare Griffin III and Luck as rookie quarterbacks. Luck has an disadvantage in Indianapolis with no weapons and going through a rebuilding program similar to what Troy Aikman, Eli Manning, and Peyton Manning had to endure. RG3 on the other hand has weapons to throw to. He has a better all around supporting cast.

It's better to compare Griffin III and Andrew Luck far off into the future when they are solid veterans.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Luck is going to have weapons. They had a nice draft and they still have Reggie Wayne.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;918323]Luck is going to have weapons. They had a nice draft and they still have Reggie Wayne.[/quote]

True but for the purposes of this poll, Griffin will have more.

VERY Deep at WR and TE and a trio of more-than-competent RBs with a nice pass-catching FB in Young too, possibly two if Cooley moves there.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=Monkeydad;918476]True but for the purposes of this poll, Griffin will have more.

VERY Deep at WR and TE and a trio of more-than-competent RBs with a nice pass-catching FB in Young too, possibly two if Cooley moves there.[/quote]

VERY deep at WR and TE?

If you look at the most productive WRs player for player based on last seasons [I]production[/I] its very close:

Skins --------------------------------------------------------------Colts
Garcon 70/947 6 TDs ----------------------------------Wayne 75/960 4 TDs
Moss 46/584 4 TDs-------------------------------------Collie 54/514 1 TD

After the WRs mentioned above sure it appears the Redskins have more [I]depth[/I] because our players have 'name' recognition.
But they're in the same ball park from a production stand point as the Colts no name depth (Donnie Avery, Quan Cosby): unproven.
We have high hopes for Hankerson and Morgan but they're unproven or returning from injury or both.

TE: Clearly Fred Davis the most proven and productive TE on either roster.
But, Cooley is coming off 8/65 season and Paul is a WR moving to TE they're both [U][I]if[/I][/U] projections at this point.
And if we're projecting Paul and Cooley to have success then I think drafting the 2 top TE prospects in the draft warrants a positive projection also.

I don't count unproven players or player coming off injury as quality depth.
Could they be productive? Sure

But if you're counting on Hankerson, Morgan, Cooley towards being VERY deep then I think you have to give the Colts credit for their potentially productive players as well.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;918588]VERY deep at WR and TE?

If you look at the most productive WRs player for player based on last seasons [I]production[/I] its very close:

Skins --------------------------------------------------------------Colts
Garcon 70/947 6 TDs ----------------------------------Wayne 75/960 4 TDs
Moss 46/584 4 TDs-------------------------------------Collie 54/514 1 TD

After the WRs mentioned above sure it appears the Redskins have more [I]depth[/I] because our players have 'name' recognition.
But they're in the same ball park from a production stand point as the Colts no name depth: unproven.
We have high hopes for Hankerson and Morgan but they're unproven or returning from injury or both.

TE: Clearly Fred Davis the most proven and productive TE on either roster.
But, Cooley is coming off 8/65 season and Paul is a WR moving to TE they're both [U][I]if[/I][/U] projections at this point.
And if we're projecting Paul and Cooley to have success then I think drafting the 2 top TE prospects in the draft warrants a positive projection also.

I don't count unproven players or player coming off injury as quality depth.
Could they be productive? Sure

But if you're counting on Hankerson, Morgan, Cooley towards being VERY deep then I think you have to give the Colts credit for their potentially productive players as well.[/quote]


Moss did miss 4 games man

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;918589]Moss did miss 4 games man[/quote]
You're preaching to the choir bro, I'm one of Tana's bigger proponents in the Warpath forum.
I think we have the better WR corps but I don't think the difference is great enough to warrant being described as VERY deep.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

I thought I replied to this earlier:

[quote=CRedskinsRule;917901]Not very good at stats, just because there are so many variables, but here is a shot at it:

Luck 62% completion, 3100 yds (lots of completions with very little YAC), 23 TD/22 INT, 300 yds rushing, 4 Rushing TD

Griffin 67% completion, 3800 yds( some good YAC from Santana and FD/Cooley) 26TD/14INT, 700 yd rushing, 5 Rushing TD[/quote]Wow, I thought I was bullish on Griffin but those numbers would rock.
I gotta say though I don't think Griff is gonna run enough to gain 700 yds and I don't think he'll complete such a high % in his rookie year.
I think/hope Griff is gonna be vertically aggressive in the passing game and that is probably gonna prevent him from posting a high comp%.

I guess I should put some figures up also:

Luck 62% 3,800 25 TDs 18 INTs 250 rush 3 TDs
Griffin 60% 3,600 22 TDs 14 INTs 400 rush 5 TDs

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Whoops I did kina reply already...
[QUOTE]Luck 3,800 26/22

Griffin 3,600 23/17
__________________[/QUOTE]

Rg3 s debut in new Orleans will be epic

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

define epic...

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

QB rating: Luck 82.5/ Griffin III 85. 8

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=30gut;918796]define epic...[/quote]


meaning roughly 300 yards passing and 3 total Tds and a HUGE WIN

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

How many come from behind victories will RG3 have this season? How many will Luck have? They both might end up impressing in two different ways. RG3 may pass for the most yards, have more TD passes than INTs, but Luck could end up having more come from behind wins.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Luck could throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs for all I care, he isn't a Redskin.

My only concern is Griffin and how he does.
If we have 10+ wins I'll be very happy.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

I think the Skins are a better team than the Colts so RGIII will have better stats as a rookie but this is a marathon not a sprint so time will tell if RGIII was worth what was paid for him.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=davy;919078]Luck could throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs for all I care, he isn't a Redskin.

My only concern is Griffin and how he does.
[B]If we have 10+ wins I'll be very happy[/B].[/quote]

Games start and wins for Griffin only stats im worried about. I think 8+ wins with RG3 starting all games at QB would be a very successful year.

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

[quote=davy;919078]Luck could throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs for all I care, he isn't a Redskin.
My only concern is Griffin and how he does.
If we have 10+ wins I'll be very happy.[/quote]I don't understand posts like this.
If you don't care about a thread topic then why post *shrugs*?
You would think a person that doesn't care about a thread topic simply wouldn't post in the thread.
I mean you must have [I]some [/I]interest because afterall here you are...

I'm actually curious about the questions asked in the OP, I'm not trying to make a statement on any other subject not wins or who I think will be better long term.
The questions posed int the OP were the topics of a great discussion at work awhile back and who better to have that discussion with then the my Redskins brethen?


Why not hazard a guess at their statistical production or any question from the OP?

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

Thread OP, as I'm sure this far into a thread very few people are reading it....

[B][COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"][SIZE="3"]I'm actually curious about the questions asked in the OP, I'm not trying to make a statement on any other subject not wins or who I think will be better long term.
The questions posed int the OP were the topics of a great discussion at work awhile back and who better to have that discussion with then the my Redskins brethen?[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]


[QUOTE=30gut;917672][IMG]http://clutchsportsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/luck-griffin-300x168.jpg[/IMG]

[U]First and foremost[/U] I want the Redskins to [I]win[/I] more games this year [I]but[/I] I have to admit a strong secondary desire: I want Griffin to post better offensive numbers then Luck.

At first I was confident that Griffin's superior production was a certainity because of my perceptions of the Colts offense.

But, after looking the Colts draft, offseason moves and returning players I'm not as certain that Griff will put up better stats then Luck.

[B][U][COLOR="Olive"]Follow on questions not included in the Title:[/COLOR][/U][/B]

Which teams has better offensive weapons? Us or the Colts?

What rookie season stats do you think Griffin and Luck will post?

[B]What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype?[/B] (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)[/QUOTE]

More clarity of the OP:
[QUOTE=30gut;917867]Simply put I'm asking: which QB (Griffin/Luck) will put up better stats?

Here's some false assumptions about my question:

o I'm not saying that stats are more important then WINs you would think this goes without saying (especially since I actually say that first and foremost I want more WINs)

o I'm not making a value judgement nor a using their rookie season stats as an indication or predictive measure of their respective careers

I'm just curious about the our perceptions or expectations of Griffin and Lucks rookie seasons statistical production.

[B]I'm also curious about what type of [I]rookie season[/I] production (if any) that Luck needs to hold on to the mantle of being a both a better prospect then Cam Newton and the greatest prospect since Peyton Manning/John Elway.[/B][/QUOTE]

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 

I gotta start writing more articles these NFL.com below discuss the same topics that were the aim of this thread:


[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829df43e/article/andrew-luck-rg3-wont-match-newton-says-scout?module=HP11_content_stream]Andrew Luck, RG3 won't match Newton, says scout - NFL.com[/url]

[QUOTE=NFL Scout Greg Gabriel]I expect Griffin to put up better numbers in 2012 but that doesn't mean that he will be the better player," Gabriel wrote on NationalFootballPost.com. "Don't expect either player to have the kind of stats that Cam Newton had last year. I would expect numbers more similar to what Andy Dalton had in Cincinnati.[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829c9e34/article/robert-griffin-iii-faces-more-pressure-than-andrew-luck-in-2012]Robert Griffin III faces more pressure than Andrew Luck in 2012 - NFL.com[/url]

[QUOTE]Neither player is likely to duplicate Cam Newton's incredible rookie season. (Newton completed 60 percent of his passes for 4,051 yards, 21 touchdowns and 17 interceptions, while rushing for an additional 706 yards and 14 scores.) Realistically, I expect both players to put up numbers similar to recent top-three selections Sam Bradford and Matt Ryan. I anticipate them to complete around 60 percent of their passes for 3,400 yards, 18 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. I'll be disappointed if either of them fails to post numbers in that range.[/QUOTE]