Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;927400]It would be nice if Bruce Allen was talking to the Raiders about trading for tackle Bruce Campbell. The Redskins are going to need young help at right tackle. Bruce Campbell is very athletic and a decent blocker that can also play in the interior of the line.[/quote]

they already traded him. Bruce was a project and never even started a game for the Raiders

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

I was high on Campbell out of college but he doesn't seem to be playing up to his expectations. Still, I'd take a shot on him, maybe a change in environment will get him right.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;927400]It would be nice if Bruce Allen was talking to the Raiders about trading for tackle Bruce Campbell. The Redskins are going to need young help at right tackle. Bruce Campbell is very athletic and a decent blocker that can also play in the interior of the line.[/quote]

The Raiders already traded Campbell to the Panthers.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;927396]I agree, we definitely overpaid for Garcon, and Morgan I didn't want because he was coming off a broken ankle. That right there is a signing that we could have avoided and of been able to offer more money to winston. And I just find it surprising that he-Winston- didn't want to come here. [B]There has to be more to the story like he knew we didn't have the money, or he didn't like Kyle Shanahan or something.[/[/B]QUOTE]

I think you're probably right there's more to the story. I think Smoot mentioned Winston would not negotiate w/ us. Kinda strange when we just brought in a talent like RGIII.

That's one thing about Garcon that irked me...in interviews when asked about whether RGIII was part of his desire for signing here Garcon said it wasn't, in fact he's kind of diffident toward the excitement around our franchise QB. I hope he does well since he's on the roster, in fact I hope he breaks 1000 yards and has 8+ TDs because otherwise his signing isn't justified.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Lets trade them Kyle Shanahan for an old Al Davis wind suit. Straight up Baby!! But must be pre and post game worn. Everybodys a winner.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=The Goat;927406][QUOTE=CultBrennan59;927396]I agree, we definitely overpaid for Garcon, and Morgan I didn't want because he was coming off a broken ankle. That right there is a signing that we could have avoided and of been able to offer more money to winston. And I just find it surprising that he-Winston- didn't want to come here. [B]There has to be more to the story like he knew we didn't have the money, or he didn't like Kyle Shanahan or something.[/[/B]QUOTE]

I think you're probably right there's more to the story. I think Smoot mentioned Winston would not negotiate w/ us. Kinda strange when we just brought in a talent like RGIII.

That's one thing about [B]Garcon[/B] that irked me...in interviews when asked about whether RGIII was part of his desire for signing here Garcon said it wasn't, in fact he's kind of diffident toward the excitement around our franchise QB. I hope he does well since he's on the roster, in fact I hope he breaks 1000 yards and has 8+ TDs because otherwise his signing isn't justified.[/quote]

Goat you gonna work Garcon into a right tackle convo? amazing

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;927407]Lets trade them Kyle Shanahan for an old Al Davis wind suit. Straight up Baby!! But must be pre and post game worn. Everybodys a winner.[/quote]

That's fantastic one of the best posts in 2012

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[QUOTE]FP Santangelo ‏@FPsCommentary

#Redskins talking trade with Oakland Raiders. Cooley could be on the move…stay tuned. Back to the Nats.[/QUOTE]

Twitter confirms Cooley is on the trading block...

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Honestly...being overly emotional here...I couldn't get behind trading Cooley to the Raiders for anything reasonable. The guy has been a trooper for the Skins for years. He deserves better than getting shipped off to football hell. I'm ok moving on without him but only if we can get him to a decent situation and get a reasonable return. Tripp is right. if we can get a younger guy under team control for a a few more years then it should happen. Just not Oakland.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=The Goat;927393] I would bet my income this year Winston would have helped this team more than Garcon, Morgan.[/quote]+1
I would have thought that finding a RT that we know (not hope) could play at a high level would have been the #1 offseason priority.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=mbedner3420;927413]Twitter confirms Cooley is on the trading block...[/quote]

So...you know that's just a parody account right?

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

It's not like we've ever gotten much of of JB to begin with. Is his absence really that big of a deal considering when he's played, he's been mediocre at best?

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

I'm not sure we needed Garcon AND Morgan (particularly when you consider Morgan has the same injury concerns as Hankerson coming into the season), but 7 out of 7 days I'll take Garcon over Winston if we had to choose one or the other. First because as solid as he is Winston is coming off of off-season ankle surgery (I understand it was minor), wanted one of the biggest contracts ever for a RT and his strength is run blocking (we are not a run heavy team). And also because I tend to think a top flight WR is more important than a RT.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=Mattyk;927427]It's not like we've ever gotten much of of JB to begin with. Is his absence really that big of a deal considering when he's played, he's been mediocre at best?[/quote]
Yeah, I thought Polumbus looked just as good. I gues I dont know what I am looking at. Our line only gave up two sacks a game with Willie and Polummbus in there at tackles. Maybe, it was because the game plan was altered. But I am with you, infact Royster came in and averaged 5.9 yds a carey.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927428]I'm not sure we needed Garcon AND Morgan (particularly when you consider Morgan has the same injury concerns as Hankerson coming into the season), but 7 out of 7 days I'll take Garcon over Winston if we had to choose one or the other. First because as solid as he is Winston is coming off of off-season ankle surgery (I understand it was minor), wanted one of the biggest contracts ever for a RT and his strength is run blocking (we are not a run heavy team). And also because I tend to think a top flight WR is more important than a RT.[/quote]

Seems like one of RG3's favorite targets so far has been Garcon, based on the camp reports I've read. Too many are ready to call the deal a bust before even seeing it play out.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927428]I'm not sure we needed Garcon AND Morgan (particularly when you consider Morgan has the same injury concerns as Hankerson coming into the season), but 7 out of 7 days I'll take Garcon over Winston if we had to choose one or the other. First because as solid as he is Winston is coming off of off-season ankle surgery (I understand it was minor), wanted one of the biggest contracts ever for a RT and his strength is run blocking (we are not a run heavy team). And also because I tend to think a top flight WR is more important than a RT.[/quote]

Solid points all around, and I think RT vs WR for the 2012 season was/is/will be a good debate.

As others have said Garcon is Griffin's favorite target so far. My hope is Griffin's mobility keeps him upright as the o line struggles.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

I honestly wouldnt feel very comfortable with our TE position if we traded cooley. Davis is one smoke away from being suspended for a year, and he's not under contract beyond 2012 anyways. Niles Paul has never played a snap at TE in his life. He barely got on the field last year at his natural WR positon. It irks me that so many people think he's somehow garaunteed to be a great TE. He could become one one day, sure, but its not garaunteed or even likely at this point. We are simply not as deep at TE as some people like to beleive. If we trade cooley, it needs to be for something of reasonable value to us.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927426]So...you know that's just a parody account right?[/quote]

Found that out after the fact...

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927428]I'm not sure we needed Garcon AND Morgan (particularly when you consider Morgan has the same injury concerns as Hankerson coming into the season), [B]but 7 out of 7 days I'll take Garcon over Winston if we had to choose one or the other. [/B]First because as solid as he is Winston is coming off of off-season ankle surgery (I understand it was minor), wanted one of the biggest contracts ever for a RT and his strength is run blocking (we are not a run heavy team). And also because I tend to think a top flight WR is more important than a RT.[/quote]

But ... but ... we could have had Jabber "I know the system" Gaffney!!!

RT is a sore spot and I, too, was hoping for Winston, but I certainly wouldn't have paid top dollar for the guy for all the reasons SS states. Garcon has the potential to be a game breaker, Winston had the potential to be good.

We will be fine with who we have at RT. Not dominant - fine.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=The Goat;927393] I would bet my income this year Winston would have helped this team more than Garcon, Morgan.[/quote]

I would take that bet everday and twice on Sunday. Name your real wager on Garcon, Morgan - what do they have to do to help the team more than Winston would have?

[quote=The Goat;927393] Particularly when you consider there were better WRs than Garcon, Morgan on the market for less money.[/quote]

Who? ... and please, please, don't put Gafney into the discussion.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Khalif Barnes would be a Vinny type move and a steal for the Raiders. Barnes is horrible, he seems to hold on every play and is also a hot head notorious for stupid penalties. Don't make that trade.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;927440] Barnes is horrible, he seems to hold on every play and is also a hot head notorious for stupid penalties. Don't make that trade.[/quote]Maybe, but he would still be an upgrade from Jammal Brown.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927428]but 7 out of 7 days I'll take Garcon over Winston if we had to choose one or the other. First because as solid as he is Winston is coming off of off-season ankle surgery (I understand it was minor), wanted one of the biggest contracts ever for a RT and his strength is run blocking (we are not a run heavy team). And also because I tend to think a top flight WR is more important than a RT.[/quote]Well since we're rehashing.
I would have happily paid Winston 4 for $22 million he would have turned an area of weakness into an area of strength.
Run or pass Winston has been one of the best: [url=http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/13/eric-winston-hits-the-market/]Eric Winston Hits the Market. Really? | ProFootballFocus.com[/url]

Imo QB success is linked to the quality of the OL and especially for rookie QB who typically are even more dependent upon pass protection.
People look at Cam's success and forget how good his OL was, Cam had all day back there.
Imo the quality of play at the point of attack is the easiest/surest way to ensure success or failure.


And this isn't a slight against Garcon, I think he's gonna be a good player.
But, I think the development of a franchise QB begins inside out.
In year 1 having solid OL/pass protection is more important then upgrading the WR corps.
Also, I think there was greater depth in the WR market place then there was in the RT.

I like the potential of our young OL/RT and at this stage I would rather go with what we got then chase after Barnes or a Barnes like player.
Forester just knows going in that RT might be an area that needs help schematically but how different would that be from when Jammal Brown was starting?

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=The Goat;927412]That's fantastic one of the best posts in 2012[/quote]

I think it would have been like the Hershal Walker trade was for the Cowboys.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;927439]I would take that bet everday and twice on Sunday. Name your real wager on Garcon, Morgan - what do they have to do to help the team more than Winston would have?



Who? ... and please, please, don't put Gafney into the discussion.[/quote]

But why not? Gaffney is like the T.O. of average receivers. He'll never want too much money because he'll never go above 1000 yards in a season, and he's still pretty young (on a scale of 1-100 early-mid 30's is still young) plus think of all the media coverage we'll get when he goes on a Twitter rant. You're thinking about this from all the wrong angles.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

I dont really get why Allen would say he was talking about a trade with Oakland. Allan and Shanahan seem pretty tight lipped about stuff. Is there any benefit for him to have mentioned a trade before a trade? Just seems wierd.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;927450]I dont really get why Allen would say he was talking about a trade with Oakland. Allan and Shanahan seem pretty tight lipped about stuff. Is there any benefit for him to have mentioned a trade before a trade? Just seems wierd.[/quote]

This struck me as odd too.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

I'd hate to see Cooley go anywhere. I don't think he's finished producing. Also, one of my favorite Redskins.


Lets look at what O-linemen the Raiders could offer to help our RT problem:

Stefen Wisniewski - Struggled at LT, but could play RT. They're planning on moving him to Center this season. Could be a RT or across-the-line reserve for us.

Khalif Barnes - bad last year but they didn't trade another tackle. He's their starting RT with no replacement. We could trade Brown to them in the deal but he won't be available for them.

Joseph Barksdale - competition for Barnes, but not starter material. He's slow. RT is already the weakest position on their line, I don't see them moving either RT.

Jared Veldheer - comparable value for a healthy Cooley but why would they trade their starting LT? NO team would do that, right?

Ed Wang - I'd buy his Redskins jersey, especially if he gets #69...but he played himself off TWO teams in his rookie training camps. Definitely not a help to us.

Cooper Carlisle - has history as a zone-blocking guard, but can he play tackle?

Mike Brisiel - definitely talented at guard but they wouldn't part with a key member of their line. He's from the Texans so he'd fit in well for us at guard but they JUST signed him to a big deal so I;d say he's off the table.


So, if I had to put my money on an O-linemen from them, I'd pick[B] Wisniewski[/B]. He has tackle experience, even though he struggled on the left side. Could be worth a shot at RT and if not, he is versatile enough to use somewhere else.

However, I still hate the idea of trading Cooley for him. Cooley's cap number is probably going to be his ticket out though. He was worth the money, when he was on the field.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;927450]I dont really get why Allen would say he was talking about a trade with Oakland. Allan and Shanahan seem pretty tight lipped about stuff. Is there any benefit for him to have mentioned a trade before a trade? Just seems wierd.[/quote]

Well, it's because he had slipped and said Raider Nation then kind of threw in that it was because he was talking to the Raiders about a trade this morning that's why he had Raiders top of mind. It wasn't "off air" but it was essentially throw away conversation between questions.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Any news to report with who we are potentially looking to acquire, offload?

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Okay that makes a lot more sense to me.

Im wondering if it really is Cooley, or for a o-line man. Unless they plan on releasing Cooley, he seems like we wouldnt get much in return for the man in the oline category. Maybe back when Al was running things but isnt the Raiders FO a lot more reasonable now?

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;927460]Okay that makes a lot more sense to me.

Im wondering if it really is Cooley, or for a o-line man. Unless they plan on releasing Cooley, he seems like we wouldnt get much in return for the man in the oline category. Maybe back when Al was running things but isnt the Raiders FO a lot more reasonable now?[/quote]

If they somehow manage to swing Veldheer for Cooley that would be incredible but I'm not sure how they (Raiders) view Veldheer or if that would even be an option. A million times no to Cooley for Barnes. Get a 3rd or 4th round pick in that case if you're hell bent on trading Cooley.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Got it. Trade Cooley for Heyer. RT problem solved.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;927466]Got it. Trade Cooley for Heyer. RT problem solved.[/quote]

Heyer is no longer with the Raiders unfortunately...

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;927464]If they somehow manage to swing Veldheer for Cooley that would be incredible but I'm not sure how they (Raiders) view Veldheer or if that would even be an option. A million times no to Cooley for Barnes. Get a 3rd or 4th round pick in that case if you're hell bent on trading Cooley.[/quote]


Would be bitter sweet but awsome. But no way the raiders do that.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=30gut;927441]Maybe, but he would still be an upgrade from Jammal Brown.[/quote]

No he is not!! Cooley for Barnes would be a very stupid trade. I've seen plenty of Raider games and Barnes is lucky to be on a team, he is horrible. I would much rather have Polumbus or Smith in there. Barnes just flat out sucks!!

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

[quote=30gut;927446]Well since we're rehashing.
I would have happily paid Winston 4 for $22 million he would have turned an area of weakness into an area of strength.
Run or pass Winston has been one of the best: [url=http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/13/eric-winston-hits-the-market/]Eric Winston Hits the Market. Really? | ProFootballFocus.com[/url]

Imo QB success is linked to the quality of the OL and especially for rookie QB who typically are even more dependent upon pass protection.
People look at Cam's success and forget how good his OL was, Cam had all day back there.
Imo the quality of play at the point of attack is the easiest/surest way to ensure success or failure.


And this isn't a slight against Garcon, I think he's gonna be a good player.
But, I think the development of a franchise QB begins inside out.
In year 1 having solid OL/pass protection is more important then upgrading the WR corps.
Also, I think there was greater depth in the WR market place then there was in the RT.

I like the potential of our young OL/RT and at this stage I would rather go with what we got then chase after Barnes or a Barnes like player.
Forester just knows going in that RT might be an area that needs help schematically but how different would that be from when Jammal Brown was starting?[/quote]

The argument for protecting your rookie QB is bulletproof. Literally, bulletproof, and anybody who argues otherwise is drinking koolaid and smoking whatever Davis/Williams tested positive for.

Agreed also Garcon is likely to be a good player for us, but I think a big target, and I'm thinking endzone here especially, would have been a better WR pairing for Griffin. Time will tell. But consider even prior to Griffin this offense has been decent at moving the ball between the 20's. It's redzone/ endzone where we struggle mightily. An improved running game will help but IMO a big WR target would (have) helped the most.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

I'm not trying to trivialize the importance of line help...but the Panthers had a UDFA rookie starting at RT for 3/4 of last season

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

Apparently, Lichtenstieger missed practice again today. That scares me.

Re: Redskins Talking Trade with Raiders?
 

So here's your answer to #2

[url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Black_(American_football[/url])

Shanahan confirmed the signing this afternoon