Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

Stats can be misleading and I think it is a bit inaccurate to look at only 4 weeks of stats and think you have a complete picture. You are only as good or bad as the teams you play.
The #1 defense [B]though only 4 games [/B] the Texans have played Miami, Jacksonville, Denver and Tennessee (with out Locker). There a no "super" playoff team on that list except possibly Denver, but they have been having growing pains at times with Manning. Certainly no sure Superbowl bound teams on that list.

Yes, our defense is not very good right now. The injury to DE Adam Carriker did more damage to our line and line rotation than we thought it would. The suspension of Tanard Jackson was huge, we really needed his skills.

I really do not like the way we are using Kedric Golston. He really does not provide anything on our 3-4 scheme. No strong pass rush, no strong run stopper. You never ever see him making a difference and knocking an O-lineman back on his heels or making a sack or big hit. I have nothing against the guy other than when he plays he grabs onto an offensive lineman and does nothing else. It is time to move on. I would like to give some of the others Worthington, Chris Baker, Dominique Hamilton or Chigbo Anunoboy some more playing time and see what we have. We have seen 7 years of Kedric Goldsten and he is not going to be anything more than what he is now, a mediocre career backup.
The only other change I would like to see besides adding two great safety's and great Cb this next off season, is finding a real defensive play caller other than Hasslett. Play calling and in game adjustments are his weakness. Just like Golston, we have given Hasslett plenty of time to see what he offers and frankly it is not enough. We need more from our defensive coordinator.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=The Goat;949348]I hate beating a dead horse, but the real evaluation of the defense is comparing it to what Mike and Bruce inherited, and simply put this defense is garbage in comparison. Just garbage. I don't give two shits about one run defense stat. What matters are points scored, and the pre-Shanahan defense rarely gave up more than 20 points a game.
Also, the argument defense is giving up points because we have a high scoring offense is beyond absurd. C'mon guys let's not circulate nonsense that sounds like we're grade school kids on the internet here. The pre Shanahan defense spent a lot of time on the field (more than it does today to be sure) and still gave up fewer points. This defense gives up points because it's a lousy defense. Period.[/quote]

I tend to believe that our defense looks worse than it previously did in large part because in the past offenses didn't have to try so hard to keep up with our own.

But more importantly, I don't think it's too fair to make the comparison because you had a lot of older/2nd tier guys when Shanahan came on that had to be moved out to make room for future players who could grow with the team. We wouldn't be too well served right now with H.B. Blades, Phillip Daniels, Cornelius Griffin, Anthony Montgomery, Renaldo Wynn

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

All four of our games have been track meets. With two of them making the other teams offense come back from being down 14 + points. Our defense is bad at times giving up big plays BUT they have also scored two TDs and have been creating turnovers. We will see tomorrow.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;948882]3-4 lineman aren't going to put up pretty stats. Just look at the results against the run and that's all you need to tell you they're doing their job.[/QUOTE]

This is what makes JJ Watts so special.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

Our defense took a big hit losing AC and Rak in the same game. I think we are not getting a lot of pressure on the QB because teams are getting the ball out quicker against out defense. Our run defense will be tested today by the Falcons and they will use alot of PA to set up the passing game. Our LB's and secondary better be discipline in their coverage assignments because Matt Ryan is very good with his ball fake on PA. I think getting pressure on the QB is much easier when you get a lead or when its 3rd and long. I was hoping to see Brandon Merriweather at SS to see if he would make a impact on our defense. Ryan Kerrigan is a Beast fellas so glad we drafted him. I think he is better than Orakpo. We need Chris Wilson and Rob J. to continue to improve every week.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

Prior to the season most people said our secondary SUCKED!, we are stopping the run for the most part so teams will be airing it out, so if our secondary SUCKS! we are bound to give up lots of yardage through the air. Are D-line is stopping the run Hasslet is not going BLITZ crazy.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

A lot of people blame Haslett, and maybe he is to blame. I don't hold account though.. Check this blog for all you Haslett haters.

[url=http://httr24-7.com/?p=2963]HTTR24-7-Skins Podcasts & Blog – Film Sessions: Haslett vs LeBeau Battle Of The 3-4[/url]

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Bucket;951513]A lot of people blame Haslett, and maybe he is to blame. I don't hold account though.. Check this blog for all you Haslett haters.

[URL="http://httr24-7.com/?p=2963"]HTTR24-7-Skins Podcasts & Blog – Film Sessions: Haslett vs LeBeau Battle Of The 3-4[/URL][/quote]

Super detailed analysis of the defensive scheme. More than anything it show how predictable Haslett has made the defense, which almost guarantees its poor performance since the Lebeau 3-4 is based on unpredictability i.e. forcing the offense to adjust to the defense.

The blogger's contrast between Haslett's (over)use of DB/safety blitzes compared to LB and A gap blitzes is probably overemphasized, because we've all seen Troy P blitz from every angle. The Steelers do a far better job of disguising the blitz and mixing up the point of extra pressure.

And the other big story is we're still better suited, personnel wise, for a tradition 4-3 defense anyway, while the Steelers have the personnel to run Lebeau's 3-4.

Haslett is a mediocre at best coach, but he's really not the problem. He didn't force the change to a 3-4 and then fail to acquire the defensive players necessary to make it work...Mike and Bruce did.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Bucket;951513]A lot of people blame Haslett, and maybe he is to blame. I don't hold account though.. Check this blog for all you Haslett haters.

[url=http://httr24-7.com/?p=2963]HTTR24-7-Skins Podcasts & Blog – Film Sessions: Haslett vs LeBeau Battle Of The 3-4[/url][/quote]

Coach Haz isn't the problem. The problem is obviously the personnel. DeAngelo Hall is soft in coverage. He does play well at times, but he's never been able to shut down a elite NFL receiver since he's played for the Redskins. Coach Haz is one of the better defensive coordinators in the NFL. The Redskins didn't jump from a 31st ranked standing in 2010 to a 13th ranked standing in 2011 for nothing. The personnel changed. Orakpo and Carriker is gone for the year on IR, but that shouldn't stop the defensive unit from progressing. Haz has had to coordinate the defense without his best players in the lineup while other players in the unit have underperformed.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;951544]Coach Haz isn't the problem. The problem is obviously the personnel. DeAngelo Hall is soft in coverage. He does play well at times, but he's never been able to shut down a elite NFL receiver since he's played for the Redskins. Coach Haz is one of the better defensive coordinators in the NFL. The Redskins didn't jump from a 31st ranked standing in 2010 to a 13th ranked standing in 2011 for nothing. The personnel changed. Orakpo and Carriker is gone for the year on IR, but that shouldn't stop the defensive unit from progressing. Haz has had to coordinate the defense without his best players in the lineup while other players in the unit have underperformed.[/quote]
Orakpo and Carriker are not reasons why our D sucks. It wasnt that good last year either look at last year it only did good against teams with horrible offenses and we got destroyed but good offensive teams. Our D ranking was overrated.


We suck because we have a bunch of 4-3 players via like London- Chris Wilson-Cofield-Kerrigan-Orakpo-and even our secondary pretty much all of them played under a 4-3 D at there best .

We are just misusing them ....Cofield is an inconsistent guy at NT you have Carriker who is a good run stopper but not that good of a pass rusher and Bowen will be good two games than is gone for the next 5 . You have London who coverage skills declined, you have Orakpo who is inconsistent , Kerrigan is getting better than you have our secondary 10 yards away and never do pressman to man .

We have no safeties .

We should go 4-3 or hire a much better 3-4 personal. Thats just how it is ..Orakpo and Carriker are not BIG diff guys and its fine not alot of teams have that. A big factor guy is Sean Taylor when we had him but he left or if Ed Reed left the ravens the secondary wouldn't be the same.

Point is we overrated out front 7 big time and match that with ahorrible DC your D will be ranked 30-31 . But this is Mikes fault for two things.

1: CHanging the 4-3 D to a 3-4 with no 3-4 type of players
2: And hiring one of the worsrt DC you can have.


He now wants Raheem Morris as the DC but wouldn't it be smarter to put him Raheem as a 4-3 DC and not a 3-4? Raheem has learned under the great Monte Kiffin for tampa 2 defense and we will ignore that to a 3-4. Shanny can leave people will bring up rg3 and morris but what else? our D is horrible and we only progressed in TO TD's and we also have no Cap and our WR CORE done nothing since Saints game . Im sorry guys for being truthful but we also traded alot of picks and our QB is already injured because Shanny hired his son to do Baylor offense. We do not need to do that at all and dont be fooled we only played HORRIBLE defenses the whole year. ATL stopped our passing very nicely and now we play Minny who will give us the hardest trouble on offense and defense.


I want Shanny gone I think our O is overrated for now simply because we have had no defense to go up against . I think RG3 and Morris are good as hell tho but we should of adressed RB year 1 and QB year 1.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Deivybaby;951753]He now wants Raheem Morris as the DC <snip>[/quote]

Where are you hearing that?

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=RedskinRat;951757]Where are you hearing that?[/quote]
ES skins insider. Imma take there word for it but he did turn down Minny for the DC job to sooner or later take the DC job from Haslett. Thats what they say but makes sense .

That Smoot guy probably cann tell you that too idk. I just want this team to win. Nationals are on the level of Capitals for disappointing me.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Deivybaby;951765]ES skins insider. Imma take there word for it but he did turn down Minny for the DC job to sooner or later take the DC job from Haslett. Thats what they say but makes sense .

That Smoot guy probably cann tell you that too idk. I just want this team to win. Nationals are on the level of Capitals for disappointing me.[/quote]

'[I]That Smoot guy[/I]'.......

'Kin 'ell dude.....He's practically royalty around here!

I would see the move by management to have a DC in waiting, as it were, but I don't see it happening for another season or more. Haslett can argue that he's never had the parts for the machine he's building.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=RedskinRat;951800]'[I]That Smoot guy[/I]'.......

'Kin 'ell dude.....He's practically royalty around here!

I would see the move by management to have a DC in waiting, as it were, but I don't see it happening for another season or more. Haslett can argue that he's never had the parts for the machine he's building.[/quote]

Thats been the excuse in Redskins land for the past 3 years, no matter which coach you are talking about. I'd say the skiins are about 4 seasons from putting it all together, but then we might have to address half of our roster due to age, so then we might be talking actually 5 or 6 years before we get to the playoffs. It does take a while to build a winner...............:insane:

smh

:doh:

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;951801]Thats been the excuse in Redskins land for the past 3 years, no matter which coach you are talking about. I'd say the skiins are about 4 seasons from putting it all together, but then we might have to address half of our roster due to age, so then we might be talking actually 5 or 6 years before we get to the playoffs. It does take a while to build a winner...............:insane:

smh

:doh:[/quote]

That's the real pisser of the situation. A quality FO and coaching staff would be winning this season, the third year in. It was really, really irresponsible to force the switch on defense w/o acquiring the players AND the coaching talent necessary to keep the defense strong. In effect, Mike took the strongest part of the team and grossly handicapped it, and because his monumental ego precludes an adjustment back to the 4-3 and we're limited on quality picks we're stuck with a garbage defense for the remainder of his tenure in all probability. For those who want to crap on the Blache defense still today...are you a Redskins fan or a Shanahan fan?

A quality FO and staff would have kept the 4-3 until the most necessary players became available to thrive in the 3-4, namely front 7 players who really fit the scheme. When you look at our defensive personnel every player with the questionable exception of Perry Riley is (still) best suited for a 4-3 defense.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=The Goat;951805]That's the real pisser of the situation. A quality FO and coaching staff would be winning this season, the third year in. It was really, really irresponsible to force the switch on defense w/o acquiring the players AND the coaching talent necessary to keep the defense strong. In effect, Mike took the strongest part of the team and grossly handicapped it, and because his monumental ego precludes an adjustment back to the 4-3 and we're limited on quality picks we're stuck with a garbage defense for the remainder of his tenure in all probability. For those who want to crap on the Blache defense still today...are you a Redskins fan or a Shanahan fan?

A quality FO and staff would have kept the 4-3 until the most necessary players became available to thrive in the 3-4, namely front 7 players who really fit the scheme. When you look at our defensive personnel every player with the questionable exception of Perry Riley is (still) best suited for a 4-3 defense.[/quote]


I agree.When this season is over I bet these things will happen these 3 things will happen.


1: RG3 vs Kirk Kousins threads

2: Should Shanny be fired?

3: 4-3 rumors.

just my two cent . I know how we act we usually go trough these directions. Lets hope rex ryan gets fired.

Dear Goat et al,

I get it:
you don't like the team's direction under Shanahan.
And you have alot of evidence on your side.
And this is an open internet forum where you can say pretty much anything

got it. I will tell you its frustrating coming on here and seeing the same rehash of every negative associated with the past 20 years of the Skins. I currently am not using the ignore feature because I like hearing everyone's opinions but its getting to that point with your incessant negativity that I either put you on it or I don't read the warpath as often. kinda an easy choice from that standpoint.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;951824]Dear Goat et al,

I get it:
you don't like the team's direction under Shanahan.
And you have alot of evidence on your side.
And this is an open internet forum where you can say pretty much anything

got it. I will tell you its frustrating coming on here and seeing the same rehash of every negative associated with the past 20 years of the Skins. I currently am not using the ignore feature because I like hearing everyone's opinions but its getting to that point with your incessant negativity that I either put you on it or I don't read the warpath as often. kinda an easy choice from that standpoint.[/quote]

CRed I like your style bro: straight and to the point. I use the ignore feature regularly, and it makes TWP "experience" even better!

Come out and say hello from time to time...there's cake! :)

(I just watched some Jim Gaffigan lol)

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Deivybaby;951820]I agree.When this season is over I bet these things will happen these 3 things will happen.


1: RG3 vs Kirk Kousins threads

2: Should Shanny be fired?

3: 4-3 rumors.

just my two cent . I know how we act we usually go trough these directions. Lets hope rex ryan gets fired.[/quote]

You're probably right...even though any RG3 vs Cousins debate is insane.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Deivybaby;951820]I agree.When this season is over I bet these things will happen these 3 things will happen.


1: [B]RG3 vs Kirk Kousins threads[/B]

2: [B]Should Shanny be fired?[/B]

3: [B]4-3 rumors.[/B]

just my two cent . I know how we act we usually go trough these directions. Lets hope rex ryan gets fired.[/quote]

1. Maybe on EX, but around here? Nah. I think most members of this board all agree there is no debate there.

2. Lemme do a quick poll: Yes - GOAT, possibly you, based on your posts? No - minus 2 or 3 people, everybody else.

3. Probably the only discussion I believe might have some merit, but that all hinges on Haslett getting replaced (a real possibility).

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

The D was overrated, but Orakpo is a top 15 pass rusher also. Try to look at it from a few different perspectives. Imagine us having just played the falcons with no Abraham.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=mooby;951845]1. Maybe on EX, but around here? Nah. I think most members of this board all agree there is no debate there.

2. Lemme do a quick poll: Yes - GOAT, possibly you, based on your posts? No - minus 2 or 3 people, everybody else.

3. Probably the only discussion I believe might have some merit, but that all hinges on Haslett getting replaced (a real possibility).[/quote]
I mean by end of season. If shanny goes 6-10 i dont see why we shouldnt put him on hot seat. Just because ww have a qb and a rb doesnt mean hes done good if anything hes done worst than what i thought. Id thouggt by now we be atleast over 7 wins and we havent.

Thays just me but ill be nice ans wait for season to end. But shanny not that good i rather have had jeff fisher looking whay hes doing to thr rams.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Evilgrin;951881]The D was overrated, but Orakpo is a top 15 pass rusher also. Try to look at it from a few different perspectives. Imagine us having just played the falcons with no Abraham.[/quote]

True. Rob jacksin been a non factor ever since his int td.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;951824]Dear Goat et al,

I get it:
you don't like the team's direction under Shanahan.
And you have alot of evidence on your side.
And this is an open internet forum where you can say pretty much anything

got it. I will tell you its frustrating coming on here and seeing the same rehash of every negative associated with the past 20 years of the Skins. I currently am not using the ignore feature because I like hearing everyone's opinions but its getting to that point with your incessant negativity that I either put you on it or I don't read the warpath as often. kinda an easy choice from that standpoint.[/quote]

Here's the thing CRed. I understand its a redskins forum, and I'm a redskins fan. But please, quit the whole "If your not gonna be all bright and happy with rainbows coming out of your ears and bright sunshiny rays flowing out your ass about the Redskins, please just quit posting."

You don't like what other people post, don't read it. I'm sure even the goat wants the skins to be good, its just that with being so bad for so long, some of us get frustrated at times, especially three years in, and the same lame ass excuses are made about two to three more years, you just wait. Anyways, out of respect for Sundays being a football day, I will withdraw from this topic, at least for the rest of today! Good luck skins!

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=The Goat;951805]That's the real pisser of the situation. A quality FO and coaching staff would be winning this season, the third year in. It was really, really irresponsible to force the switch on defense w/o acquiring the players AND the coaching talent necessary to keep the defense strong. In effect, Mike took the strongest part of the team and grossly handicapped it, and because his monumental ego precludes an adjustment back to the 4-3 and we're limited on quality picks we're stuck with a garbage defense for the remainder of his tenure in all probability. For those who want to crap on the Blache defense still today...are you a Redskins fan or a Shanahan fan?

A quality FO and staff would have kept the 4-3 until the most necessary players became available to thrive in the 3-4, namely front 7 players who really fit the scheme. When you look at our defensive personnel every player with the questionable exception of Perry Riley is (still) best suited for a 4-3 defense.[/quote]

Here is the thing. Even when Shanny was with Denver, he won a bunch of games just due to the fact that the AFC west stunk shweaty balls. He ran the defense in Denver straight into the ground, I think he might have used them to frack for oil or something. Point is, everywhere shanahan goes, the defenses suffer.

I'm sure you are familiar with his history on the defensive front, but it waas to be expected. Nothing new here, really.

OK, I promise CRed, that is the last negative shanahan ad I will run today.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Deivybaby;951820]I agree.When this season is over I bet these things will happen these 3 things will happen.


1: RG3 vs Kirk Kousins threads

2: Should Shanny be fired?

3: 4-3 rumors.

just my two cent . I know how we act we usually go trough these directions. Lets hope rex ryan gets fired.[/quote]

1. RG3 is the truth, and I don't see that there even could be a logical debate. Here no way, ES sure.

2. Shanny- It all depends on his resord as to whether he will be on the hot seat. Honestly I dont think he is and should be given his 5 years.

3. Now there may be something to that, but again till this year plays out who knows. I know I for one would like to keep a 3-4 and keep adding players to the defense.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

What's with this Jeff Fisher love affair?

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;952850]What's with this Jeff Fisher love affair?[/quote]gotta be the push broom

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;951888]Here's the thing CRed. I understand its a redskins forum, and I'm a redskins fan. But please, quit the whole "If your not gonna be all bright and happy with rainbows coming out of your ears and bright sunshiny rays flowing out your ass about the Redskins, please just quit posting."

You don't like what other people post, don't read it. [B]I'm sure even the goat wants the skins to be good,[/B] its just that with being so bad for so long, some of us get frustrated at times, especially three years in, and the same lame ass excuses are made about two to three more years, you just wait. Anyways, out of respect for Sundays being a football day, I will withdraw from this topic, at least for the rest of today! Good luck skins![/quote]

The eff is that supposed to mean? I want us to be fantastic, and I genuinely think we have the roster to do it. Thus, my frustration w/ the coaching staff.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;952850]What's with this Jeff Fisher love affair?[/quote]

His badass facial hair...you know you like it.

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 

Stephen Bowen and Lorenzo Alexander combined for a sack yesterday. I think we all know what this defense is now. They are not going to be a top 10 defense this year but as long as they keep opposing offenses out of the end zone then that's all that matters. Excellent selection by Haslett in getting Alexander and Keenen Robinson in the mix.