Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=imaskin4life;955343]I was kinda depressed when I saw that pick but I think Williams plays a more important role (believe it or not) now that we have a QB.[/quote]

I think in the end TW was the better choice for the pick. However, I feel that for the past couple of seasons we've had backups and/or injury prone players at safety. I hope we can soon find capable starters at safety.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=imaskin4life;955343]I was kinda depressed when I saw that pick but I think Williams plays a more important role (believe it or not) now that we have a QB.[/quote]

You win superbowls around a quarterback, offense linemen and a passrushe. Before eric Berry was injured he was a beast of course the chiefs have him playing out of position but Trent Williams is playing at a pro bowl level. Of course individual Olinemen are a little overrated (Giants are a perfect example of that) but still Trent Williams has ben playing great.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=donofriose;955345]You win superbowls around a quarterback, offense linemen and a passrushe. Before eric Berry was injured he was a beast of course the chiefs have him playing out of position but Trent Williams is playing at a pro bowl level. Of course individual Olinemen are a little overrated (Giants are a perfect example of that) but still Trent Williams has ben playing great.[/quote]

How were the Chiefs playing Berry? Just curious.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=Ruhskins;955346]How were the Chiefs playing Berry? Just curious.[/quote]

He is a true Free safety and they having playing mainly strong Safety. Kind of like Laron Landry but reversed. Landry was a great strong safety but we tried to make him a Free safety. different responsibilities... His rookie year Berry played Free and did great.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

In my opinion, Raheem Morris should be made the D coordinator at the break, barring a miraculous and unforeseen turnaround by the defense before then. While it clearly isn't all Haslett's fault, the overall defensive play has been unacceptable. 3 years now under Haslett and the D has gotten progressively worse. Someone needs to take a fall.

Morris has been disappointing as a secondary coach, but he does have a decent resume, and is the best qualified candidate on the team to take over on an interim basis. Give him the opportunity to coach half a season, and see if he can improve the defensive play.

The mindset of the defense just has to change, and I don't see how Haslett can reverse 3 years now of substandard production. It's clear from watching the games and comments made by departing players that the defensive schemes were, and are, a weakness.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

Cruz split the double team. Williams should have been a little deeper on that play than he actually was.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

we need a safety why did we let landry go?

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=redskinjim;955382]we need a safety why did we let landry go?[/quote]


Landry? Landry was a bum. Another wasted 1st round Cerratto pick. Landry can't cover worth a damn.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

ya but he had a pick six for the jets and he is BETTER than anyone we have. And he hits a ton did you see that hit on fred jackson of the bills?

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;955385]Landry? Landry was a bum. Another wasted 1st round Cerratto pick. Landry can't cover worth a damn.[/quote]

so was carlos rogers he would have stayed but he wasnt in haslets plan

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=redskinjim;955390]so was carlos rogers he would have stayed but he wasnt in haslets plan[/quote]

I don't want to go through the whole Carlos Rogers discussion again, but the Redskins weren't in Carlos Rogers' plan as well. He left for SF for the same money that the Redskins were offering him.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=Bucket;955234]You know what an awesome secondary would look like?

Champ Bailey - CB
Carlos Rogers -CB
D. Hall - Nickel
Sean Taylor - FS
[B]Ryan Clark- SS[/B]

Man that would bring a tear to any D. Cordinator's eye.[/quote]

Fixed it for you.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

A better secondary, with all of these people in their primes:

Champ Bailey - CB
Shawn Springs - CB
D. Hall - Nickel CB
Sean Taylor - FS
Ryan Clark - SS

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=donofriose;955345]You win superbowls around a quarterback, offense linemen and a passrushe. Before eric Berry was injured he was a beast of course the chiefs have him playing out of position but Trent Williams is playing at a pro bowl level. Of course individual Olinemen are a little overrated (Giants are a perfect example of that) but still Trent Williams has ben playing great.[/quote]

Agreed. In recent years teams like the Steelers and Giants have won the Super Bowl with average secondaries. In fact you go back through 2000 and you'll see the common thread among every Super Bowl winner save the Ravens (who made up for it with possibly the greatest defense of all time) was a great pass rush and great QB play.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

OK, a lot of hot under the collar commenting here, so I will try to be objective.

Last post makes a good point, but look at the factor here - Giants and Steelers have good pass rush (and with Harrison out, look how average the Steelers were). If you give the QB all day to pass, he will find someone open.We've lost 2 good D players early in the season, and even then, we weren't generating terrific pass rush. We have to take away the opposition QB time in the pocket to help the secondary.

As for the secondary, yes they are weak, but we also have a weak LB corps who can't cover underneath in zone. Williams was guilty on that last play. Never mind the 25yd line up, he came up on a pass play instead of keeping his depth, and got caught flat footted. Only direction Cruz was going was downfield, so why step up? But in the first place why was Cruz given a free lane off the line? No bump or chip on him by a CB or pass rushing LB? It wasn't all on the secondary, but they didn't cover themselves in glory.

And no, you can't blame the D for the TO's on O. There were IMHO too many botched handoffs (RGIII covered up one by gaining yardage), but RGIII didn't allow the lineman through to strip sack him and Moss fumbled away a perfectly good catch, so lets not dump it all on RGIII either.

This is a team that's forming an identity. It takes time unless you get supremely lucky with talent. Look at our injury list and tell me we can go toe to toe with the Giants on paper? No, but we played them close and nearly came out with the win. Lets get some perspective here and look at the bright future instead of the dim and gloomy past. We're 3-4, not 0-7, so lets see what we can do with 9 games left. After that we can look at pointing fingers.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

Some one tell me why our team does not bump guys at the line of scrimmage? We seem to give every WR a clear shot to their route. Would not bumping a guy at the line give more time for the pass rush to get there because it would slow down the development of the pass routes? I'm not a football person, but this seems like it would help so much.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=scowan;955452]Some one tell me why our team does not bump guys at the line of scrimmage? We seem to give every WR a clear shot to their route. Would not bumping a guy at the line give more time for the pass rush to get there because it would slow down the development of the pass routes? I'm not a football person, but this seems like it would help so much.[/quote]

I think, but don't know for sure, that it's because our corners wouldn't be able to recover after the jam, especially with fast WR's.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;955450]OK, a lot of hot under the collar commenting here, so I will try to be objective.

Last post makes a good point, but look at the factor here - Giants and Steelers have good pass rush (and with Harrison out, look how average the Steelers were). If you give the QB all day to pass, he will find someone open.We've lost 2 good D players early in the season, and even then, we weren't generating terrific pass rush. We have to take away the opposition QB time in the pocket to help the secondary.

As for the secondary, yes they are weak, but we also have a weak LB corps who can't cover underneath in zone. Williams was guilty on that last play. Never mind the 25yd line up, he came up on a pass play instead of keeping his depth, and got caught flat footted. Only direction Cruz was going was downfield, so why step up? But in the first place why was Cruz given a free lane off the line? No bump or chip on him by a CB or pass rushing LB? It wasn't all on the secondary, but they didn't cover themselves in glory.

And no, you can't blame the D for the TO's on O. There were IMHO too many botched handoffs (RGIII covered up one by gaining yardage), but RGIII didn't allow the lineman through to strip sack him and Moss fumbled away a perfectly good catch, so lets not dump it all on RGIII either.

This is a team that's forming an identity. It takes time unless you get supremely lucky with talent. Look at our injury list and tell me we can go toe to toe with the Giants on paper? No, but we played them close and nearly came out with the win. Lets get some perspective here and look at the bright future instead of the dim and gloomy past. We're 3-4, not 0-7, so lets see what we can do with 9 games left. After that we can look at pointing fingers.[/quote]


Pretty much spot on,

We lost alot of cap space, and had to pick and choose which positions to address this past offseason. Hopefully next year we can work on the secondary more. We never pressured Eli enough on his throws, and with this secondary its basicly a necessity on every single throw.

This secondary isn't fast enough to bump guys on the line, we aren't collapsing the pocket either. The steelers are scheming for their own personnel issues, less blitzing this year.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=scowan;955452]Some one tell me why our team does not bump guys at the line of scrimmage? We seem to give every WR a clear shot to their route. Would not bumping a guy at the line give more time for the pass rush to get there because it would slow down the development of the pass routes? I'm not a football person, but this seems like it would help so much.[/quote]

Adding to CRedskins' response, we have terrible safety play as well and our secondary doesn't communicate well. You can bump WRs at the LOS if you have good coverage up top with your safeties. But in most cases either a) our safeties our not fast enough/good enough to cover fast WRs and b) lack of communication could lead to a WR being wide open (which happens a lot with our team).

Re: Raheem Morris
 

Gotta love Warpath after a loss. lol. Someone always needs and should get fired. I can only imagine if some of you ran the Redskins. You'd be WAY WORSE than Dan Snyder ever was/is. lol

Re: Raheem Morris
 

Raheem Morris isn't the problem, it's a lack of talent in the secondary. We never should have opened the vault for D. Hall, and should have reserved that money for Carlos Rogers, our best cover corner over the last 5 years. Perhaps Brandon Meriweather will help, but we knew that the secondary was weak, and his loss so far has made that even more clear.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

Oh boy, not again with this Hall/Rogers argument :doh:

Which opens the door for the " what if Sean Taylor was still with us?" Seriously though - it is what five years layer and I think we missed him more yesterday than ever.


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This is a talent problem. End of discussion. But at least now since we have an offense, and one that's not necessarily high priced, we can grab our db's next year. I'd like to see us sign a younger, safety free agent that's at least solid, maybe not a star but solid, and then draft for depth and maybe find a late round winner. I also want Sean Taylor to rise from the grave.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=punch it in;955509]Which opens the door for the " what if Sean Taylor was still with us?" Seriously though - it is what five years layer and I think we missed him more yesterday than ever.


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I just don't understand why fans refuse to admit that FS has been (and is)one of the weakest points in our defense. When was the last time we had a good FS starting for our defense? Since S. Taylor, we've had these guys at FS:

- A "playing out of position" Laron Landry
- An injury prone Kareem Moore
- An injury prone OJ Atogwe
- Tanard Jackson and his problems
- Slow and old Madieu Williams

I think Horton and Doughty have played FS, I can't be sure. If they did, they had no business playing FS.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=Ruhskins;955506]Oh boy, not again with this Hall/Rogers argument :doh:[/quote]

I can recall a time when the majority of the Rogers talk here was centered around "Why the **** did we ****ing drafting Carlos ****ing Rogers!!!!! when we could have ****ing had Shawne Merriman???? ****ing Redskins!!!!!!"

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=Ruhskins;955518]I just don't understand why fans refuse to admit that FS has been (and is)one of the weakest points in our defense. When was the last time we had a good FS starting for our defense? Since S. Taylor, we've had these guys at FS:

- A "playing out of position" Laron Landry
- An injury prone Kareem Moore
- An injury prone OJ Atogwe
- Tanard Jackson and his problems
- Slow and old Madieu Williams

I think Horton and Doughty have played FS, I can't be sure. If they did, they had no business playing FS.[/quote]

bottomline, Safety play AGAIN is in the bottom 3 in the league. We are just horrible. When you roll the dice with crap, band-aid, average talent you will get burned 9 times outta 10. Very poor job by Shanny and the FO.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

If only we hadn't let Pat Fischer retire. Then we would need neither Hall nor Rogers.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=Lotus;955525]If only we hadn't let Pat Fischer retire. Then we would need neither Hall nor Rogers.[/quote]

:laughing2

Let's bring back Darrell Green! We don't need no stinking safeties!

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;955518]I just don't understand why fans refuse to admit that FS has been (and is)one of the weakest points in our defense. When was the last time we had a good FS starting for our defense? Since S. Taylor, we've had these guys at FS:

- A "playing out of position" Laron Landry
- An injury prone Kareem Moore
- An injury prone OJ Atogwe
- Tanard Jackson and his problems
- Slow and old Madieu Williams

I think Horton and Doughty have played FS, I can't be sure. If they did, they had no business playing FS.[/QUOTE]

I dont think anybody refuses to admit it. Im not sure how you can if you have even a third of one good eye. Lol. This is one time where i will come to defense of shanny and the FO. Shanny did move Landry back to SS and than get Atogwe ( who at the time seemed like a pretty damn good pick up). It was area 51 all over again. Than Landry got hurt and Atogwe didnt pan out. In this past offseason we obviously made qb and o- line a top priority in the draft ( hate the o-line picks but i guess jury is still out pn rib and gettis). In free agency we had the cap hit and chose to spend what we had on wr's. Cant really argue with that. Nobody sa the Garcon injury coming and I think if he was playing at 100 percent that it would help Morgan and Hank thrive. Im pretty sure that this off season our secondary will be number one priority in the draft and free agency. If next year we dont have a competent pass d and it is year four of Shanallen than there will be a completely reasonable cause to question wtf we are doing as a team.


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[QUOTE=Lotus;955525]If only we hadn't let Pat Fischer retire. Then we would need neither Hall nor Rogers.[/QUOTE]

It was actually the Paul Krause trade that haunts us today. Set us back decades. Lol.


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Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=punch it in;955533]It was actually the Paul Krause trade that haunts us today. Set us back decades. Lol.


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[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Redskins-Legacy-The-One-That-Got-Away/3eb63213-8ba0-4682-8d19-4d01c189589c]Redskins Legacy: The One That Got Away[/url]

Re: Raheem Morris
 

It's always hilarious how after a loss the last 20 years of moves come back to haunt us.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;955535][url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Redskins-Legacy-The-One-That-Got-Away/3eb63213-8ba0-4682-8d19-4d01c189589c]Redskins Legacy: The One That Got Away[/url][/QUOTE]

It is such a questionable move. Pretty sure as a team we are out of the woods on that one now though.


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Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=SmootSmack;955519]I can recall a time when the majority of the Rogers talk here was centered around "Why the **** did we ****ing drafting Carlos ****ing Rogers!!!!! when we could have ****ing had Shawne Merriman???? ****ing Redskins!!!!!!"[/quote]




So tell us what you are hearing about Lou Spanos. :cheeky-sm




On another note, seems Carlos isn't having the type of year he had last year. Amazing what one year contracts will do for a player's ability.

Re: Raheem Morris
 

It's hard to blame Morris for a defensive backfield that is without Merriweather and Jackson, two players who were signed to strengthen the backfield. To further complicate matters, the back-ups have been struggling through injuries, the best pass rusher on the team is out for the season, the best DE on the team is out for the season, the MLB and defensive lynchpin is starting to show his age (and he is oooooold) and the 3-4 scheme is mismatched to the skills of the players on the field. I'm not saying that Morris is improving the defense, I just don't think we can rightfully point to him as a reason the secondary has been playing so poorly; there are many mitigating factors. The long and short of it is that this defense is a f*cking mess.

Somebody has to be blamed for allowing Williams to be so close to the line yesterday. I will go to my grave saying we should have played prevent. With Eli Manning and our secondary in crunch time I absolutely would have played to hold them to a fg and OT there. Eli was missing some short passes yesterday and a fg can always be missed too. We stay in prevent and the worst case scenario is OT. Best is Eli misses or throws a pick or they miss a FG or they simply dont get into FG range - especially with Nicks playing hurt. To let Cruz run strait up the middle of the field in what we knew was a pass situation is just ridiculous.


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Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=NC_Skins;955546]So tell us what you are hearing about Lou Spanos. :cheeky-sm




On another note, seems Carlos isn't having the type of year he had last year. Amazing what one year contracts will do for a player's ability.[/quote]

Lou Spanos? Doubt he's coming back here. Players loved him (and Olivadotti) but the next DC (and again no lock that it will be next year) is already in the NFL

Re: Raheem Morris
 

[quote=punch it in;955554]Somebody has to be blamed for allowing Williams to be so close to the line yesterday. I will go to my grave saying we should have played prevent. With Eli Manning and our secondary in crunch time I absolutely would have played to hold them to a fg and OT there. Eli was missing some short passes yesterday and a fg can always be missed too. We stay in prevent and the worst case scenario is OT. Best is Eli misses or throws a pick or they miss a FG or they simply dont get into FG range - especially with Nicks playing hurt. To let Cruz run strait up the middle of the field in what we knew was a pass situation is just ridiculous.


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I kind of gotta blame Williams for that. He's a veteran who got caught flat footed. I mean Jordan Pugh seemed to know exactly what he had to do. Wiliams got caught planted the other way and he doesn't have the speed to make up for it

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;955566]I kind of gotta blame Williams for that. He's a veteran who got caught flat footed. I mean Jordan Pugh seemed to know exactly what he had to do. Wiliams got caught planted the other way and he doesn't have the speed to make up for it[/QUOTE]

Yes exactly he doesnt. He was out of position entirely is my point. Why? Why was he so far up in coverage. We could have called a timeout but im assuming Williams didnt take it upon himself to move so far up. He was exactly where the coaches wanted him to be on the field at that point. Williams should have been waaaaay back.


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