Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

if we do lose pierce we won't know exactly what we've lost until we see him play for another team, in a different system but if we lose smoot we do know what we are losing , not the best cb in the league but a pretty good one.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Damn, very dissapointed about this. I'll still hold out the same hope, but man that is a blow. Well I was saying today if we can keep just him or smoot I'll be happy.

Please Fred!

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]He's not worth the money.[/QUOTE]

Neither was Dieon Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Brunell, Jesse Armstead, Trotter, or Borrow, however Pierce deserves it more than any of thers guys.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]He's not worth the money.[/QUOTE]

What do you base that on?

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

The difference is, with the exception of Trotter none of the other guys were products of their respective systems. Just too old to perform. Or in Barrow's case - injured.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Here's the thing though: let's say that Pierce is a product of this system, which I'm not so sure about because when Kurt Schottenheimer was the DC here he was pretty high on Pierce, but does that really matter? I mean aren't we planning-hoping?-to have the same system in place for several years anyway?

It's not as if we're pondering whether to keep Stephen Davis but we're switching to the Fun 'n Gun

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

skin' FO shoulda locked these two up when they saw how awful the maret was going to be... their bad, now they got to either pay up fast or look at their other options.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

I have a feeling the giants severly backloaded the contract and it might be worth picking up for 2-3 years with such a tiny bonus... just a thought.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Smootsmack - it means he's not worth the money when you can plug someone else into the spot. I like Pierce, I liked him before he was a starter for the team and like how much depth we had at linebacker. He did an amazing job this year and surpassed everyone expectations - but he's simply not worth that type of money. I hate to see a division rival get him, but I can't fathom paying him that.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Pierce was a great player for us and he's got a super career ahead of him. It's tough to lose him, but that is free agency. Last year, we got a player who made a tremendous difference for us from the Giants in Cornelius Griffin. You can't have everything go your way.

The most important thing is to build a team with a winning spirit that isn't based on stars but really creates an atmosphere where everyone is seen as important and everyone has an important role. If a free agent like Mike Barrow goes down, you have an Antonio Pierce ready to fill in the void like this past season. If Arrington goes down, here comes Lemar Marshall. Or if you are the NE Patriots, you have a Troy Brown that can even be willing to play defensive back.

In a star system, the team is just the sum of its parts. You lose a key part, then you have a problem. Players think they are more important than the team generally.

In a team spirit system, if a player goes down or is lost, you have people there who are already there to replace him, who already believe in themselves and their importance, and they have self-confidence and the desire to make the team more important than individual accomplishment. Whoever is playing isn't griping about what sort of plays they are getting called for them - they are willing to sacrifice for the good of the whole.

That is the kind of atmosphere we are building on the Redskins. It was harder to get that going on offense for various reasons last year, but we are building that thanks to Joe Gibbs and the staff.

I'm confident we will have players who will step up and be able to fill in for Pierce in different ways. Barrow is there, and maybe with Pierce gone, another player or two will have a chance to step up and provide the leadership that Pierce did.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

relax...

pierce played really well, but he was a product of a terrific system that kept the blockers off him. we have barrow. we have clifton smith. we have barnes. all can play inside.

if they are not enough there are a lot of inside backers out there in free agency. guys like fields, hartwell or, especially cowart (who had a buffalo connection with williams)
could come in and not miss a beat. there are others out there.

if need be, they can use a mid round pick on a linebacker. we will be more than okay on defense...

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Smootsmack - it means he's not worth the money when you can plug someone else into the spot. I like Pierce, I liked him before he was a starter for the team and like how much depth we had at linebacker. He did an amazing job this year and surpassed everyone expectations - but he's simply not worth that type of money. I hate to see a division rival get him, but I can't fathom paying him that.[/QUOTE]

What are most MLBs getting paid these days? Honestly, I don't know and I'm just curious because you know how footballl-well sports in general-is, it seems like a lot of money but then you look at it in comparison to other players in the position or the league and what seems like a lot of money suddenly isn't

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=Shane]Pierce was a great player for us and he's got a super career ahead of him. It's tough to lose him, but that is free agency. Last year, we got a player who made a tremendous difference for us from the Giants in Cornelius Griffin. You can't have everything go your way.

The most important thing is to build a team with a winning spirit that isn't based on stars but really creates an atmosphere where everyone is seen as important and everyone has an important role. If a free agent like Mike Barrow goes down, you have an Antonio Pierce ready to fill in the void like this past season. If Arrington goes down, here comes Lemar Marshall. Or if you are the NE Patriots, you have a Troy Brown that can even be willing to play defensive back.

In a star system, the team is just the sum of its parts. You lose a key part, then you have a problem. Players think they are more important than the team generally.

In a team spirit system, if a player goes down or is lost, you have people there who are already there to replace him, who already believe in themselves and their importance, and they have self-confidence and the desire to make the team more important than individual accomplishment. Whoever is playing isn't griping about what sort of plays they are getting called for them - they are willing to sacrifice for the good of the whole.

That is the kind of atmosphere we are building on the Redskins. It was harder to get that going on offense for various reasons last year, but we are building that thanks to Joe Gibbs and the staff.

I'm confident we will have players who will step up and be able to fill in for Pierce in different ways. Barrow is there, and maybe with Pierce gone, another player or two will have a chance to step up and provide the leadership that Pierce did.[/QUOTE]

So true...see, this is what I'm talking about Shane. Excellent post...I'm going "Inside the Beltway" now to find out how Bush made us lose Pierce to the Giants :D

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Didn't Kerry make us lose to the Packers? :)

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Actually with a loss to the Packers Kerry should have won.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Actually with a loss to the Packers Kerry should have won.[/QUOTE]

Which proves we actucally won that game and that the illegal motion penalty was a vast left wing conspiracy to steal the election. All in all though, I bet Brunell would've been in for at least a couple more games had we won that one. So it's probably better off. Then again, instead of simply being disgruntled, Coles might have jumped off a bridge.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Fear not skin's fan's, I liked Pierce from the first time he stepped on the field for us, but I wouldn't give him that kind of money no way, William's made him an all pro, and he can do it again with someone with more athletic abilty in which we have in Barnes [who apparently William's likes a lot] Pierce is not a prototypical MLB, we will find someone who will be as good or better than Pierce for a lot less, I like Pierce, LIKE, but let the giant's blow up their cap for him, we just can't continue to pay mega buck's for everyone especially area's that I believe we can develope a player very quickly as William's proved last year. Continuity? William's had a bunch of guy's playing phenomonal from day 1 last year in a new system, I say congradulation's to Pierce and wish him all the best he gave us his best while he was here but obviously it's time for both parties to move on.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

You mean right wing conspiracy?

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]You mean right wing conspiracy?[/QUOTE]

No no. I'm part of that, I'd have known if it was us. The refs were laying down for the dems trying to get the pack to win so Kerry would be president. It's all so clear! :party-smi

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

bleh - Im sorry. I'm crazy tonight. It's been a long day...

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

no daseal, he meant left wing...

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Thank you That_Guy. Since I had already realized I was in the wrong I'm glad you were able to make sure I knew.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

sorry, between the time i typed that apparently 4 other messages got posted ;)

I'm not one to rub it... err, nevermind.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Good For Him

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Damn.

Stayed up til the early hours waiting for news of Pierce and Smoot only to wake up this morning and find Pierce is gone. Gutted.

We better resign Smoot now, time to look after our own rather than keep throwing cash at players who have never worn the jersey.

Hope you guys dont mind a Redskin fan from the UK joining the Forum, ive been following them since 84 when we got the NFL on tv over here. I KNOW Coach Gibbs will get us back to the top where we belong.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Welcome aboard!!

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

I'm bummin' about Pierce. He still hasn't signed yet but it sounds like he could make it official today when he visits Giants stadium. I'm sure the coaches were aware this might happen and have a plan B in place. Whether that plan B involves Barrow, another free agent, or someone like Marshall remains to be seen. Either way I'm going to miss Pierce, he was alot of fun to watch.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

maybe signing marshal was stating that maybe one of our power olbs is going middle, atleast for this season. i remember hearing about marcus was willing to play middle when we found out barrow wasnt gonna play the first few weeks of the season last year

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]maybe signing marshal was stating that maybe one of our power olbs is going middle, atleast for this season. i remember hearing about marcus was willing to play middle when we found out barrow wasnt gonna play the first few weeks of the season last year[/QUOTE]


I would not be suprised if Marshal is the guy to go into the middle. In addition, he has two all-pro linebackers on both sides of him, and he did a very good job last year. I still am holding out small hope for Peirce, and really wanted him here for continutiy more than anything. When putting their skills right next to each other, Perice is better than Marshal, but I dont think it would be that big of a difference. This is all assuming that Marshall is a natural LB and could play in the middle as I have heard.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

This is a case of a system make a good outside linebacker great. Pierce is smart and a big time field leader. But for that kinda of money enjoy the military leader in NY. The Redkins always have a plan b if they did not they would have signed him before 3/2. I think everyone is making way to big a deal over this. Catch you latter Pierce thanks for the ride thus far but be prepared for a little ass whopping when we face you this year.

By the way he has not officially signed yet, so you never know.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Welcome to the forum AndySkinUK. One of our moderators (RedskinRat) is a UK expatriot, so perhaps the two of you can discuss kidney pies and other inedibles. ;)

The Pierce offer is a blow - primarily because he is the best availble young MLB with 4-3 experience. Bell is similar, but since he has played so much more, he has a lot more wear on him. Hartwell is a stud, but has played 3-4 for the bulk of his career.

I have a lot of faith in Williams' ability to prepare his players. Pierce became an extension of Williams on the field, which helped everyone learn the scheme. The majority of our starters will have experience now, so the loss isn't as bad as it could be. Still, if that's the offer on the table and we can still match it, I'd do so.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Losing Pierce is a big loss to the team, but he can be replaced with the guys we have.
We do need to re-sign Smoot and find some help on the D-line. We also need to upgrade the receiving corps. Signing Rabach is a big plus for the offense.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

I would love it if the Pierce stays true to his word and gives the Skins a chance to match it, and they do....but I just don't know if they will. If he goes, it sucks that it is to a division rival , but considering how they did last year, Williams should be able to just plug someone else in there.
I still hope they find a way to keep him though.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

:mad: Not what I wanted to read when I got to work this morning. What the F#*K!! I guess I'll give Williams the benaffit of the doubt that he knows Pierce's worth. But does he have to go the the f#*king Giants?? :frusty:
I sure hope we can sign Smoot!!

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

I would like to know the offer that the 'Skins had on the table. If it's close, it shouldn't be problem to match. You got to commend Pierce for giving the team time to match. He isn't restricted and it shows where his heart is. Do we release Coles to retrieve the $5 million dollar bonus to make the deal? Knowing that top FA WRs are scarce? :oink:

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

I really like pierce(liked if this signing does take place ;) ) and I was one fan who wanted him resigned the most out of our free agents, but that deals a little too rich IMO. He's an incredibly intelligent player but he's not the most physically gifted LB and as others have posted he played in a incredibly well put together system. Averaged out that's over 6 million a year (I know that it could be restructured to be back loaded and probably is) and I personally don't feel a player who's had one really good season, preceeded by a few average seasons, warrants that big of a portion of our cap when our DC has shown he knows how to get the best of anyone he plugs into a spot and young talent waiting in the wings. If pierce leaves, I don't see us signing anyone major to take his spot but they could easily draft someone in the 3rd or 4th round and use a mixture of Barrow, if healthy, and Marshall in the middle. Plus no matter who we put in at MLB, they won't be in too bad of shape with a pro bowl lb on either side of him.

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

Brud - hasn't Pittsburgh been playing 3-4 for some time?

Re: FOX Sports Says Pierce is Gone
 

what's williams history with coaching up MLBs and how successful have his others been after leaving him? and are any of his old players on the table?

I'm assuming they let pierce go and it wasn't the gints bumrushing him to take the offer on the spot...