[QUOTE=Daseal;974805]I have a question. This isn't rhetorical and I have no idea if it is even possible. Assume a male athlete goes through the exact same hormone therapy a transgender going from female --> male goes through, would they get a competitive advantage due to increased (possibly to dangerous levels?) testosterone/etc?

To me, the fact that they're transgender doesn't equate into the equation at all. It comes down to sports providing a fair and equal setting for people to compete. Athletes are a mix of naturally gifted and driven. Keeping PEDs and other advantages out of sports is important to keeping such treatment from becoming mandatory in order to compete.

That's why I'm against the carbon-fiber legs running in the Olympics. Every decision you make in life has consequences, changing your gender may have the consequence of giving up [b]competitive[/b] sports. I think it's fair to say the person in question, had they been born a woman, would not be 6'8.

When it comes to the actual radio personalities. They should not have been suspended. Part of being a sports talk host is creating controversy and sparking conversation. When it comes to topics like this, if you're uncomfortable with the topic or don't agree with what they're saying -- then change the god damn channel. It's really not that hard, the only time I feel there is a case is when someone hears something like that and they lack the ability to get away from something that deeply offends them. People have the right to their opinion, and there are times that opinion is offensive to me. I ignore those shows.[/QUOTE]

See I look at this differently. PEDs are not dangerous when taken with professional consultation. Why not allow them, especially if people are going to constantly try to gain an edge? If everyone has the same access to PEDs, then those with the natural talents and drive will rise to the top.

That being said I do think there is an issue with things being unfair regarding transgender athletes.

Finally, in terms of freedom of speech I disagree. They are on free federal airwaves and are subject to regulations and guidelines. What ESPN did was right. If this was XM, however, I would agree with you.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=hooskins;974814]See I look at this differently. PEDs are not dangerous when taken with professional consultation. Why not allow them, especially if people are going to constantly try to gain an edge? If everyone has the same access to PEDs, then those with the natural talents and drive will rise to the top.

That being said I do think there is an issue with things being unfair regarding transgender athletes.

Finally, in terms of freedom of speech I disagree. They are on free federal airwaves and are subject to regulations and guidelines. What ESPN did was right. If this was XM, however, I would agree with you.[/quote]

I don't disagree with your about PEDs being dangerous with regulation. And admittedly, over the years my opinion on this topic have changed from your stance to a non-PED stance. I see this as two fold. One, it's the slippery slope argument. Maybe use of HGH is allowed, but then it slowly becomes more and more supplements and less and less regulation. I will say this, I don't think athletes should be forced to take PEDs, which I think this would promote. Everyone will continue to try to get an edge -- but that edge may come at a higher price. Regardless, we could start a thread on that and get plenty of feedback.

As far as the final topic, I see your argument but don't agree personally. They didn't say anything against FCC rules. They didn't use language that was out of hand, etc. I think the topic is a sensitive one. They may not have handled it perfectly, but I still think you can turn the channel. There are shows I find offensive, for instance, shows like what Jerry Falwell used to run. I don't think they should be taken off the air because I don't believe in some of the messages that are part of that show.

I don't mean to upset anyone with the above, but it is a decisive topic that illustrates my point.

THe new drug seems to be adderall which is a common drug for ADHD. My son takes it for his ADHD, so I don't consider it a PED in a sense, although is designed to make you to be more focused and alert.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;974599]Doesn't have anything to do with genetics. Physical and hormone changes only.[/quote]

My point was, where do we draw the line?

Once you can physically change a person where do you stop? Who decides?

If I could get my 40 time down to 3 seconds I'd opt for surgery tomorrow.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=redskins5044;974818]THe new drug seems to be adderall which is a common drug for ADHD. My son takes it for his ADHD, so I don't consider it a PED in a sense, although is designed to make you to be more focused and alert.[/quote]

I take Concerta, which is the 'adult' version of Adderall. When I go to the gym with/without it in my system, it is MUCH different. I can do significantly more with the Concerta in my system. There's more than just focus. It's an amphetamine. It speeds everything up to help you focus, which is somewhat unintuitive.

[QUOTE=Daseal;974828]I take Concerta, which is the 'adult' version of Adderall. When I go to the gym with/without it in my system, it is MUCH different. I can do significantly more with the Concerta in my system. There's more than just focus. It's an amphetamine. It speeds everything up to help you focus, which is somewhat unintuitive.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I can see that I haven't ever take either of them. Like I said my son takes it to focus and be attentive, so I guess I can see where it could help enhance performance.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

Well this is a two topic thing; so I'l'l start with the radio.

I'm p*ssed these guys got suspended. Czaban is out there, he says a TON of stuff that I listen too and I'm like yeesh probably right on the line there, but he's entertaining as hell. This is a sports talk radio show, its not an educational platform, these guys are paid to be entertaining and funny. I really don't understand how when they say something like this, that its treated as such an outrage but people makes jokes along these lines in the movies all the time. If you listen to the clip, outside of "It" which I agree is unacceptable, its very much a discussion. They apologized yesterday, end of story.

I'm just getting so sick of everyone's reaction every time something like this happens that people need to be fired and suspended. The fact they apologized is not enough, these equality groups want blood. I know both of these guys will be fine, but the general principle just infuriates me. Instead of it being a teaching moment, groups fly off the handle and blow the whole thing way out of proportion. People in general are not allowed to make mistakes anymore, without their heads/jobs being called for. This goes way beyond just this story. It was really only a matter of time before this happened with Czaban, but just in the grand scheme of things in society today.

My general thought on the actual "issue" is that this woman should not be playing, but I don't really have a way to back this up other than its an unfair competitive advantage. I've heard comments (not on here, but I've been following this story the last few days) of "well she wont be on the team forever", and the same can be said for all the people who are in that league who won't get a chance to play junior college basketball again and now are a part of this circus, which is what it has turned into.

As Czaban said on the show, every human is entitled to do what they have to do to feel good about themselves and live their life the way they want... but sports is different.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=Gmanc711;974836]Well this is a two topic thing; so I'l'l start with the radio.

I'm p*ssed these guys got suspended. Czaban is out there, he says a TON of stuff that I listen too and I'm like yeesh probably right on the line there, but he's entertaining as hell. This is a sports talk radio show, its not an educational platform, these guys are paid to be entertaining and funny. I really don't understand how when they say something like this, that its treated as such an outrage but people makes jokes along these lines in the movies all the time. If you listen to the clip, outside of "It" which I agree is unacceptable, its very much a discussion. They apologized yesterday, end of story.

I'm just getting so sick of everyone's reaction every time something like this happens that people need to be fired and suspended. The fact they apologized is not enough, these equality groups want blood. I know both of these guys will be fine, but the general principle just infuriates me. Instead of it being a teaching moment, groups fly off the handle and blow the whole thing way out of proportion. People in general are not allowed to make mistakes anymore, without their heads/jobs being called for. This goes way beyond just this story. It was really only a matter of time before this happened with Czaban, but just in the grand scheme of things in society today.

My general thought on the actual "issue" is that this woman should not be playing, but I don't really have a way to back this up other than its an unfair competitive advantage. I've heard comments (not on here, but I've been following this story the last few days) of "well she wont be on the team forever", and the same can be said for all the people who are in that league who won't get a chance to play junior college basketball again and now are a part of this circus, which is what it has turned into.

As Czaban said on the show, every human is entitled to do what they have to do to feel good about themselves and live their life the way they want... but sports is different.[/quote]

Very pleased that the discussion has, for the most part, remained dignified.

Regarding your post, If i didnt loath Czabe with every fire of my being, i might feel differently, so i'm most certainly not biased. i understand where you're coming from in regards to the suspensions. i think your arguments about a radio host job being to create controversy and people being to sensitive are spot on.

That said, i think when you have a program on a "family friendly" sports radio show, you've got to be mindful of your audience. Everything that was said would be fine, if it were on a Limbaugh/Stern type show. People listening to those shows are generally not easily offended and tune in because they want to hear controversy. On the flipside, ESPN980 is a sports station with a broad audience. Its sponsors don't want controversy. Its listeners arent interested in tuning in for controversy. Czabe and Polin should have been more sensitive and mindful of their choice of words.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=RedskinRat;974827]My point was, where do we draw the line?

Once you can physically change a person where do you stop? Who decides?

If I could get my 40 time down to 3 seconds I'd opt for surgery tomorrow.[/quote]

Pretty sure genetically engineering babies in-utero isn't too far away, I've heard talks of it.

We'll be living in Gattica in no time.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;974858]Very pleased that the discussion has, for the most part, remained dignified.

Regarding your post, If i didnt loath Czabe with every fire of my being, i might feel differently, so i'm most certainly not biased. i understand where you're coming from in regards to the suspensions. i think your arguments about a radio host job being to create controversy and people being to sensitive are spot on.

That said, i think when you have a program on a "family friendly" sports radio show, you've got to be mindful of your audience. Everything that was said would be fine, if it were on a Limbaugh/Stern type show. People listening to those shows are generally not easily offended and tune in because they want to hear controversy. On the flipside, ESPN980 is a sports station with a broad audience. Its sponsors don't want controversy. Its listeners arent interested in tuning in for controversy. Czabe and Polin should have been more sensitive and mindful of their choice of words.[/quote]
Limbaugh/Stern...those are two shows that you group in the same light? Haha

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=RedskinRat;974827]My point was, where do we draw the line?

Once you can physically change a person where do you stop? Who decides?

If I could get my 40 time down to 3 seconds I'd opt for surgery tomorrow.[/quote]

So you'd become a girl if you could run faster? If they do a good job it will also be easier for you to get laid. LMAO

Dude, I'm Eurotrash, I'm an honorary chick already.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974907]Limbaugh/Stern...those are two shows that you group in the same light? Haha[/quote]

As a Stern fan I'm offended to be lumped in with that blowhard.

I get his general point though.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

If they're classified legally as a gender, that's what sport they're allowed to play, right?

But Daseal raises a good point about PED's. Aren't steroids and other PEDs about boosting a body's ability to regenerate/replenish? Wouldn't drugs to help make one "female" or "male" do the same kind of thing, regardless of which gender they want to be classified as?

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

if this were a scholarship or division 1 school, it'd be a bit different i guess, but ultimately it should be left to the individual program/competition to decide. a 50 year old on a community college team is a bit of "who cares" as far as that whole "competitive advantage" thing goes. couldn't the school just pay 20+k for a ringer if they just wanted to win at any cost? unless this guy/girl is micheal jordan i dont buy that arguement.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

(Post Removed By Moderator)

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;974985](Post Removed By Moderator)[/quote]

I can only imagine what inflammatory hate was spewed here to get a post removed by a mod. Firstdown isn't even that bad.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

I am on board with playing with the cards you are dealt. If however that isn't good enough then create two more leagues (he-she's and she-he's). I don't know how much intrest they will garner, but people play sports for the love of sports right? Essentially we all just want a level playing field.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;974987]I can only imagine what inflammatory hate was spewed here to get a post removed by a mod. Firstdown isn't even that bad.[/quote]

No no, I posted exactly that, Post was removed by moderator..just to stir the pot and see what reaction it would get...back to your topic, I'm staying off this board, because I'm not knowledgeable enough on this topic.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974907]Limbaugh/Stern...those are two shows that you group in the same light? Haha[/quote]

No, i was actually saying that their comments would be "appropriate" on a show like that - NOT on ESPN980.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=Mattyk;974582]Maybe it's because I'm an out of towner but I never got the appeal of Czban to start with. He always came off as a pompous a-hole who was never happy unless he was complaining about something.[/quote]

Amen...he's AWFUL.

What's funny is he's so pompus that he still won't back off his stance that the skins traded to much for RG3. Claims he would still reverse the trade if he could. No idea how he has listeners.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=celts32;975067]Amen...he's AWFUL.

[B]What's funny is he's so pompus that he still won't back off his stance that the skins traded to much for RG3. Claims he would still reverse the trade if he could.[/B] No idea how he has listeners.[/quote]

First time I've heard that...

Wow, that's just nuts. :doh:

He's just one of those guys that would rather be controversial than have common sense, no matter how dumb it makes him look.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

The main problem when this issue arises, just like with most homosexual, trans, etc battles is that the special rights always flow in only one direction. This argument is always put forward to get females into male sports, but never considers the opposite direction. We're not talking about letting a NBA D-League player who can't make an actual NBA roster from going and dominating the NBA. We're not talking about letting Prince Fielder play softball in the Olympics to lessen his offseason injury risk in the WBC and still play for his country. The NHL players might be bored, they're going to be allowed to invade field hockey leagues right?

Nope, as usual, these exceptions will only apply to the minority groups who are getting their way just by being loud. Just like with the whole Augusta golf club debate, it's only the PRIVATE men's club that has to bend. No womens' groups are being forced to change their rules or reason for existence to accept a man.

Men play men's sports. Women can play in womens' sports. You participate in the one for the gender that you were born. Just because you pay a doctor to mutilate your anatomy with a scalpel, doesn't mean you've changed your gender. Do a DNA test if you don't believe me.

Yes, there are some with real birth defects with their sex organs and I feel sorry for any true pain it has caused them, but they're the miniscule minority in this movement. Most have done what they've done to their body by choice.

I'm not discriminating, just using some common sense and applying EQUAL rules....not the SPECIAL rules they're seeking that will only apply to their group.

Also, no one is stopping group of females from starting their own leagues when there's not one offered for them. It's been done plenty of times. No, they'll never be of the caliber of the NFL in terms of exposure, popularity or level of success, but then again, the participants are not going to be of the physical caliber of player that an NFL player is.

We're not living in a fairy land where any kid can actually be whatever they want just because they dream it. Not everyone is born with the capabilities to be able to handle every job. That's not discrimination, that's life, and reality.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;974985](Post Removed By Moderator)[/quote]

Propaganda.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=firstdown;974735]If they keep changing the rules we will have womens football.[/quote]

Although its name sounds a bit misogynistic, the Lingerie Football League is legit. The players are stacked and they hit hard. They wear less padding than their male counterparts... I've seen broken collarbones. Most of them come from D1 sports and are sustaining their athletic abilities after college.

[YT]gZcSEE7TuGU[/YT]

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=itvnetop;975231]Although its name sounds a bit misogynistic, the Lingerie Football League is legit. The players are stacked and they hit hard. They wear less padding than their male counterparts... I've seen broken collarbones. Most of them come from D1 sports and are sustaining their athletic abilities after college.

[YT]gZcSEE7TuGU[/YT][/quote]

Give me any 11 members of WP and we could beat any team, just don't have the WP members wear lingerie.

No they should not be allowed to participate in womens sports. If they want to be treated, adressed, and "thought" of as women that is their choice and i respect it. However a snip here and an implant there does not make you a woman. There are plenty of great women athletes, and i am not saying they are inferior, but all in all men have - broader shoulders, greater stature, and "as a whole" are stronger. So i dont think it is fair. I mean the fact that women and men have their own teams in the first place speaks to the inequality in physical strength and stature.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=punch it in;975240]I mean the fact that women and men have their own teams in the first place speaks to the inequality in physical strength and stature.[/quote]

And they're not as smart.

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Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

and they cant drive, but they are awesome at cooking and shorthand so I like them.

:silly:

edit: tolerate them