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[quote=skinsfan69;982411]Well they did lose Cutler last year and there was no qualified back up. This year their o-line is just pitiful. Seems like the GM needs to go before Lovie.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure they fired Jerry Angelo before the season or in-season.

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Was Rivera actually fired?

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[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8796471/arizona-cardinals-fire-ken-whisenhunt-rod-graves-source]Arizona Cardinals fire Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves -- source - ESPN[/url]

Can add Whisenhunt and Rod Graves to that list. Coach and GM both out.




I still laugh at some of the guys around here boasting up the likes of Whisenhunt and Schwartz....lol

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[quote=NC_Skins;982450][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8796471/arizona-cardinals-fire-ken-whisenhunt-rod-graves-source]Arizona Cardinals fire Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves -- source - ESPN[/url]

Can add Whisenhunt and Rod Graves to that list. Coach and GM both out.




I still laugh at some of the guys around here boasting up the likes of Whisenhunt and Schwartz....lol[/quote]

and Cowher and Reid and the waterboy from North Bumf*** High. Pretty much anybody[I] but [/I]the guy who built the roster that includes Riley, Crawford, Chester, Wilson, Garcon, Morris, Griffin, Jenkins, Cofield, Bowen, T. Williams and then designed a universally acclaimed offensive system.

Think Jax is wishing they had Shanallen right about now?

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[quote=CultBrennan59;982425]LT, Jason Taylor and Kris Jenkins (first two are potential hall of famers) said that Rex Ryan is a great coach and the reason they went to the jets. I've heard these guys on CBS, Inside the NFL and NFLN all say positive things about Rex. Is Rex absolutely not to blame? No, he deserves some blame. But is Rex the problem? Not at all. Tannebaum is the problem along with Tebow and Sanchez. As soon as those 3 are gone (1 down 2 to go), then we'll see the Jets become better. Think of it like us with McNabb and Haynesworth and Vinny; It takes time, but the Coach is not the blame, its the organization and who runs it. Rex doesn't run the whole Jets, he runs a third of it.[/quote]

Name your bet - Rex doesn't reach .500 next year and is fired.

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This about sums it up:

[quote]Ryan has no right to be annoyed [that his fate is up in the air]. Let's face it, he did a poor job this season, mismanaging his quarterbacks and losing his team down the stretch. The Jets finished with three straight losses, falling to three terrible teams -- the Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers and Bills. They were outscored in those games, 69-36.

[B]That's brutal. The players say they love Ryan and love playing for him, but they had a strange way of showing it.[/B][/quote]
[url=http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8794261/new-york-jets-rex-ryan-probably-fired-woody-johnson-needs-change-coaching]New York Jets -- Rex Ryan probably won't be fired by Woody Johnson but needs to change his coaching - ESPN New York[/url]

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[quote=Chico23231;982361]great news. Kyle made me a believer this year[/quote]Yep, I'm on his bandwagon.

If there is in fact a succession plan, I'd rather not wait for it

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[quote=SmootSmack;982312]Several firings already from around the NFL

NY Jets: GM Mike Tannenbaum

Cleveland Browns: GM Tom Heckert and HC Pat Shurmur

Philadelphia Eagles: HC Andy Reid

Jacksonville Jaguars: GM Gene Smith

KC Chiefs: HC Romeo Crennel

Carolina Panthers: HC Ron Rivera

Chicago Bears: HC Lovie Smith

Buffalo Bills: HC Chan Gailey[/quote]

How does Lovie Smith get fired? The Chicago Bears were 10-6 this year. I'm sure Lovie, like Tony Dungy before him, will land in a good situation with an excellent quarterback and win himself a super bowl in a few years.

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[quote=REDSKINS4ever;982481]How does Lovie Smith get fired? The Chicago Bears were 10-6 this year. I'm sure Lovie, like Tony Dungy before him, will land in a good situation with an excellent quarterback and win himself a super bowl in a few years.[/quote]

Uh, well, when last year you start 7-3 and miss the playoffs, and then this year you start 7-1 and miss the playoffs, you usually get fired.

I think Lovie Smith will definitely land on his feet again, but collapses like that are never good, especially not in consecutive seasons.

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I'm not comfortable with Lovie Smith getting fired; it doesn't sit well with me.

To be fair the Bears never tried to mislead the public into thinking Lovie was going to be safe this year and they made it pretty clear that his time there had run its course. But for a consistent winner to get fired following a 10-6 season because of the way the tiebreakers fell is pretty shitty, given how excited/emotional the responses and the futures are here to the same 10 wins and 6 losses.

The racial component isn't helping it sit well, even though I thoroughly believe that has nothing to do with it. It just makes a crappy situation (new GM parts ways with largely successful coach he didn't hire) look a lot worse than it is.

In Andy Reid's case, at least the Eagles waited for the team to fall apart on him before they pulled the trigger.

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[quote=GTripp0012;982491]I'm not comfortable with Lovie Smith getting fired; it doesn't sit well with me.

To be fair the Bears never tried to mislead the public into thinking Lovie was going to be safe this year and they made it pretty clear that his time there had run its course. But for a consistent winner to get fired following a 10-6 season because of the way the tiebreakers fell is pretty shitty, given how excited/emotional the responses and the futures are here to the same 10 wins and 6 losses.

The racial component isn't helping it sit well, even though I thoroughly believe that has nothing to do with it. It just makes a crappy situation (new GM parts ways with largely successful coach he didn't hire) look a lot worse than it is.

In Andy Reid's case, at least the Eagles waited for the team to fall apart on him before they pulled the trigger.[/quote]

Lovie Smith will indeed land somewhere else. By the Bears firing him, they are just doing another NFL franchise a huge favor much how the Bucs did to Tony Dungy and he landed with Indianapolis and won a SB.

With all Andy Reid accomplished in Philly, you know when the McNabb era was over things were going to head downhill for him and they did. For a team that finished at 8-8 last season, you knew the Eagles were on a decline and wouldn't improve in the least. This is very similar to Jim Zorn's 2 seasons with the Redskins.

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Lovie will be fine, I'm just not comfortable with it.

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[quote=GTripp0012;982473]Yep, I'm on his bandwagon.

If there is in fact a succession plan, I'd rather not wait for it[/quote]

Wait, so you'd like to cut ties with mike now and just hand it to Kyle? I'm confused

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[quote=mooby;982487][B]Uh, well, when last year you start 7-3 and miss the playoffs, and then this year you start 7-1 and miss the playoffs, you usually get fired.[/B]

I think Lovie Smith will definitely land on his feet again, but collapses like that are never good, especially not in consecutive seasons.[/quote]

Pretty much what it comes down to. Two consecutive late season collapses will get you fired in this league more often than not. Plus he missed the playoffs 5 of his last 6 seasons.

Sucks for him... if he doesn't get another HC gig he's bound to end up with a DC job.

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[quote=GTripp0012;982495]Lovie will be fine, I'm just not comfortable with it.[/quote]

Was he responsible for giving Tice the OC job? Tice was terrible. And they had Martz before him?

[QUOTE=mbedner3420;982503]Wait, so you'd like to cut ties with mike now and just hand it to Kyle? I'm confused[/QUOTE]

I've never been pro succession plan in general, but Kyle is ready.

I'm not saying I believe Kyle will necessarily be the head coach here because this could be mikes job as long as he wants it. The situation I want to avoid is one where Kyle stays on as an overqualified OC waiting for his father to call it a career.

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[quote=GTripp0012;982513]I've never been pro succession plan in general, but Kyle is ready.

I'm not saying I believe Kyle will necessarily be the head coach here because this could be mikes job as long as he wants it. [B]The situation I want to avoid is one where Kyle stays on as an overqualified OC waiting for his father to call it a career.[/B][/quote]

Why would that be a bad thing for the Skins? Just curious what pitfalls you would be wanting to avoid

Anyone hear Andy Rieds last words in Philly? "Hail to the Eagles". Did he hear the Skins song to much last night? I've never heard Hail to the Eagles.

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[quote=NC_Skins;982450][URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8796471/arizona-cardinals-fire-ken-whisenhunt-rod-graves-source"]Arizona Cardinals fire Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves -- source - ESPN[/URL]

Can add Whisenhunt and Rod Graves to that list. Coach and GM both out.




I still laugh at some of the guys around here boasting up the likes of Whisenhunt and Schwartz....lol[/quote]

Whisenhunt was a damn good coach when he had Kurt Warner. Right?

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Andy Reid needs a change of scenery in the worst way. It was time for him and the Eagles to move on.

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[quote=Gtothearry;982519]Anyone hear Andy Rieds last words in Philly? "Hail to the Eagles". Did he hear the Skins song to much last night? I've never heard Hail to the Eagles.[/quote]

He's a befuddled old man.
He should just go sit on a beach and watch the walrus's mate.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;982518]Why would that be a bad thing for the Skins? Just curious what pitfalls you would be wanting to avoid[/quote]I don't think it's a bad thing for the Skins necessarily, but it certainly increases the chances that Kyle takes an opportunity outside the organization so that Mike can stay on longer. In which case, we'd be better off without a succession plan.

If the plan is for Kyle to be head coach, then name him head coach and promote Mike. My point is just that Kyle is ready now.

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[quote=Chico23231;982511]Was he responsible for giving Tice the OC job? Tice was terrible. And they had Martz before him?[/quote]

The pitfalls id like to avoid is giving the job to Kyle and he not do well if he not ready, or Kyle going to some other team right after we picker up our franchise QB and Kyle schemed around his abilities.

Let MS's contract go full term with son as OC. Give Kyle the title Asst HC. And hopefully in 2 yrs MS will give the position to son and dad keeps the front office job to help out if needed.

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[quote=NC_Skins;982450][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8796471/arizona-cardinals-fire-ken-whisenhunt-rod-graves-source]Arizona Cardinals fire Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves -- source - ESPN[/url]

Can add Whisenhunt and Rod Graves to that list. Coach and GM both out.




I still laugh at some of the guys around here boasting up the likes of Whisenhunt and Schwartz....lol[/quote]

Whisenhunt dug his own Graves. Ok, bad puns aside, I mean when you trot out this appalling list of qb's post-Kurt Warner, for three consecutive seasons, you deserve to be fired. Check the talent on this list:

Derek Anderson, John Skelton, and Max Hall in 2010
Kolb and Skelton in 2011
Skelton, Kolb, Lindley, and Hoyer in 2012

Shit, if Mike Shanahan had stuck with a Grossman/Beck-esque player for this season I have no doubts he'd have been shitcanned too. I can understand having a terrible quarterback for one year or even two years like we did (because Mike S. didn't want to settle for a Gabbert after the McNabb disaster) but 3 years in a row? That's just terrible team-building. The difference between us and the Cards is we got rid of McNabb and just admitted it was a disaster, whereas the Cards gave Kolb another chance.

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being a head coach is more than X's and O's, so i have no idea how you can say kyle's ready right now.

norv is a good OC with no leadership ability, and is a horrible head coach. being great at one job doesn't mean you'll be great at the other.

i do believe he should be in line for the job, but it's working the way it's set up now, so let's run with that. if there is a serious issue of kyle leaving, then you can reconsider, but i think he's safe for this year at least.

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[quote=GTripp0012;982535]I don't think it's a bad thing for the Skins necessarily, but it certainly increases the chances that Kyle takes an opportunity outside the organization so that Mike can stay on longer. In which case, we'd be better off without a succession plan.

If the plan is for Kyle to be head coach, then name him head coach and promote Mike. My point is just that Kyle is ready now.[/quote]

If Kyle goes anywhere do u think he would try to trade with the skins for cousins?

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[quote=GTripp0012;982535]I don't think it's a bad thing for the Skins necessarily, but it certainly increases the chances that Kyle takes an opportunity outside the organization so that Mike can stay on longer. In which case, we'd be better off without a succession plan.

If the plan is for Kyle to be head coach, then name him head coach and promote Mike. My point is just that Kyle is ready now.[/quote]I'm confused by what you're saying. Kyle came here to coach under his dad, as a full fledged OC. This is the job Kyle wanted, not just taking whatever option was best, this was really a handpicked job. So I don't think Kyle is wanting to leave while things are looking up here.

A succession plan is a rare thing. And even then rarely works out. Petitbon, Gregg Williams (Snyder killed that)... But keeping a good system helps a team. So I think in this case we're better off with a Shanahan successor plan.

Kyle may be ready, no argument there, but seems to me like young coaches nowadays typically have a horrible first stint as HC. Read or heard that somewhere, and it rings true to me. This seems like a good situation to increase his experience as an OC, and increase his value to other teams.

In basic bargaining terms: The better Kyle looks over time, where he doesn't HAVE to go anywhere if he doesn't want to, the more leverage he should have to get a great contract when he does go.

Meantime I hope we keep him. I don't know exactly how much of this offensive success on Kyle (group effort on gameplanning during the week, Mike seems pretty involved on the sidelines but maybe not), but my bet is "a lot". Let's keep what works.

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[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Buffalo-Bills-to-keep-general-manager-Buddy-Nix-promote-Russ-Brandon-010113]Buffalo Bills to keep GM Buddy Nix, promote Russ Brandon - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN[/url]

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[quote=HailGreen28;982597]I'm confused by what you're saying. Kyle came here to coach under his dad, as a full fledged OC. This is the job Kyle wanted, not just taking whatever option was best, this was really a handpicked job. So I don't think Kyle is wanting to leave while things are looking up here.

[B]A succession plan is a rare thing. And even then rarely works out.[/B] Petitbon, Gregg Williams (Snyder killed that)... But keeping a good system helps a team. So I think in this case we're better off with a Shanahan successor plan.

Kyle may be ready, no argument there, but seems to me like young coaches nowadays typically have a horrible first stint as HC. Read or heard that somewhere, and it rings true to me. This seems like a good situation to increase his experience as an OC, and increase his value to other teams.

In basic bargaining terms: The better Kyle looks over time, where he doesn't HAVE to go anywhere if he doesn't want to, the more leverage he should have to get a great contract when he does go.

Meantime I hope we keep him. I don't know exactly how much of this offensive success on Kyle (group effort on gameplanning during the week, Mike seems pretty involved on the sidelines but maybe not), but my bet is "a lot". Let's keep what works.[/quote]I really agree with the bolded part.

I feel like the Redskins can keep Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan in their current capacities for the 2013 season, but if the team wins 11+ next year and is even better than this years team, Kyle immediately becomes the hottest candidate out there (if he isn't already). That means while we might be able to get away this year simply because no great jobs are coming open (even though Chicago and Philadelphia are both open now), we're still going to hit the same issue a year down the road.

Alternatively, if the team were to backslide, you have a bigger issue with a succession plan, so I feel that the team is either best off promoting immediately, or taking it year to year and allowing Kyle to choose the situation that is best for him.

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Yeah, I'm not totally on board with the ide Kyle should be successor. I do want him to stay as OC, however. Too many, way too many, examples of stellar coordinators being promoted to head coach and end up sucking hard. I'm all for extending Mike.

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[quote=WaldSkins;982567]If Kyle goes anywhere do u think he would try to trade with the skins for cousins?[/quote]Not necessarily.

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[quote=That Guy;982565][B]being a head coach is more than X's and O's, so i have no idea how you can say kyle's ready right now.[/B]

norv is a good OC with no leadership ability, and is a horrible head coach. being great at one job doesn't mean you'll be great at the other.

i do believe he should be in line for the job, but it's working the way it's set up now, so let's run with that. if there is a serious issue of kyle leaving, then you can reconsider, but i think he's safe for this year at least.[/quote]

I tend to agree, and I've heard others say he's not quite ready yet either, as far as dealing with the media and being out there as the face of a team.

Ed Sheahin ‏@NFLSkins
I don't think Kyle Shanahan is ready for a head coaching job. He's not always comfortable in front of the media and he still needs to mature.

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This is why some key people in the organization think Raheem is the better HC candidate than Kyle.

Because of the "intangibles"

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[quote=WaldSkins;982567]If Kyle goes anywhere do u think he would try to trade with the skins for cousins?[/quote]

Kyle is not going anywhere, Think about it... What the heck can he do without RG3? Lets not lose perspective here. Kyle has a great thing going for him with Redskins, he is able to get as creative as he wants to with a QB that can just about do anything he draws up.

Best thing he can do is sit and win a few seasons, build a solid winning resume before he even considers moving on. It would be a very foolish move for him to go any time soon.

Furthermore, there is a very good possibility he inherits the Redskins HC job in the very near future which most likely will include RG3/Morris. These HC's that have lost their jobs would kill to coach the Skins. Kyle has to look at the big picture here...

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[quote=GTripp0012;982600]I really agree with the bolded part.

I feel like the Redskins can keep Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan in their current capacities for the 2013 season, but if the team wins 11+ next year and is even better than this years team, Kyle immediately becomes the hottest candidate out there (if he isn't already). That means while we might be able to get away this year simply because no great jobs are coming open (even though Chicago and Philadelphia are both open now), we're still going to hit the same issue a year down the road.

Alternatively, if the team were to backslide, you have a bigger issue with a succession plan, so I feel that the team is either best off promoting immediately, or taking it year to year and allowing Kyle to choose the situation that is best for him.[/quote]I just don't see what the problem is with a successor plan. It's not set in concrete. Even if it is (The Williams plan), it can be jettisoned. To me, it's a nice option to have. And like a lot of things in life, having a plan is good even if you end up going in a different direction.

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I don't think there's any chance Kyle becomes our head coach. Such logic assumes mike shanahan will retire in 2 years when his contracts up. Mike will only be 62 then. Why would he want to retire from coaching? And we certainly couldn't fire him and promote Kyle. At some point, Kyle is going to leave and be a head coach somewhere else. I just hope he grooms his replacement before he goes. I'm not comfortable with mike shanahan being head coach and play caller.

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[quote=Mattyk;982604]I tend to agree, and I've heard others say he's not quite ready yet either, as far as dealing with the media and being out there as the face of a team.

Ed Sheahin ‏@NFLSkins
[B]I don't think Kyle Shanahan is ready for a head coaching job. He's not always comfortable in front of the media and he still needs to mature[/B].[/quote]

Agree. Remember Kyle running down the hall berating the official early in the season? Cant do that. I think Kyle needs a little more time.

@BHA, Mike Shanny regarded as one of the best playcallers in the league when he was doing it. I wouldnt have a problem with him doing both.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;982613]I don't think there's any chance Kyle becomes our head coach. Such logic assumes mike shanahan will retire in 2 years when his contracts up. Mike will only be 62 then. Why would he want to retire from coaching? And we certainly couldn't fire him and promote Kyle. At some point, Kyle is going to leave and be a head coach somewhere else. I just hope he grooms his replacement before he goes. I'm not comfortable with mike shanahan being head coach and play caller.[/quote]

I see what your saying and makes sense but, if Mike can get a SB in the next 2 years he may want to go out on top. That was my thinking. Some variables involved... but definitely incentive for Kyle to hang around awhile.

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[quote=Chico23231;982614]Agree. Remember Kyle running down the hall berating the official early in the season? Cant do that. I think Kyle needs a little more time.

@BHA, Mike Shanny regarded as one of the best playcallers in the league when he was doing it. I wouldnt have a problem with him doing both.[/quote]Yeah, that was incredibly immature.

But to be fair, it was 14 games ago. Recent evidence suggests he's ready to take more on his plate.

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[quote=HailGreen28;982612]I just don't see what the problem is with a successor plan. It's not set in concrete. Even if it is (The Williams plan), it can be jettisoned. To me, it's a nice option to have. And like a lot of things in life, having a plan is good even if you end up going in a different direction.[/quote]That's fair enough.