Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

welcome to the warpath dirtywater. are you not a skins fan ?

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

what would be great and give us spectacular wideout corps is if we went into training camp with santana moss, david patten, and mike williams as our top three wideouts. with the running game, and we wouldn't have to worry about defense, we could be a playoff contender next year.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]welcome to the warpath dirtywater. are you not a skins fan ?[/QUOTE]

No, sorry, I'm a Pats fan, but I am an NFL fan as a whole. You won't find too much trash talking from me, just like good football talk.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=Big C] cant always compare the trade as to how it looks on paper. coles is better than moss, but moss will be better for this team than coles would have.[/QUOTE]

Sort of like samari and fred!?

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

So what should I do w/ my Coles Jersey? Cause not only is this damn name plate sewed on...its glued on too!!! DAMN YOU COLES!

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

somebody please correct me if im wrong but it seems coles is making out like a bandit in this deal. he signed a huge contract two years ago, got an enormous signing bonus and now when its time to play for his base salary for five years he gets another deal with another bonus, and the skins get screwed on the flip side they have to absorb the cap hit on coles bounus and now moss is surely to want another contract with a large bounus. i could be wrong but it seems like this was not a very good deal for us from a cap standpoint.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

gman i would still keep the coles jersey. some people still wear champ bailey jerseys. i only bought one jersey, and that's lavar arrington because that man is gonna be with the redskins for his whole career. yes coles has ruined our cap but we are just gonna have to live with it. the skins are likely gonna extend moss' contract before we sign him so we will have some more cap room.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]So what should I do w/ my Coles Jersey? Cause not only is this damn name plate sewed on...its glued on too!!! DAMN YOU COLES![/QUOTE]

Hope that one day you can use it on [URL=http://gocolumbialions.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/coles_jeff00.html]this guy?[/URL]

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

Extending Moss' contract will not clear up any cap room for this year. He already makes near the minimum allowable salary for a player of his tenure, so his salary has nowhere to go but up. With his demand to be traded, Coles screwed our cap for this year, but getting his salary off the books will be helpful for years to come.

One aspect of the deal that I feel will dictate whether it is a successful trade or not is the contract that we give Moss. He definitely does not deserve a contract the same size as Coles, nor does he deserve one as large as Derrick Mason got from Baltimore (although I don't know the particulars of that contract.) I would like to see a 5 or 6 year deal that averages 3 to $3.5M per season, with the first three years of the contract being at minimum or near-minimum base salaries. SB should be reasonable.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

This is a great trade. Aside from the team chemistry aspect, their is the toe. Coles had three 100+ games right off the bat in 2003. He hurt his toe in Game 3 against the Giants that year. Since then, he has only 4 more 100+ games (totaling 7). Moss has the same number of over 100+ in that same span (and he had Pennington for half a year in 2003 and Paul Hackett as a very offensive coordinator).

Coles needs surgery on his toe. He won't get it done. Even the most magical orthotic device cannot replace surgery. It is just a stopgap for this condition which eventually needs surgery. Therefore, the Skins made the right choice in letting go a player who will have/has a chronic condition.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=Dirtywater]No, sorry, I'm a Pats fan, but I am an NFL fan as a whole. You won't find too much trash talking from me, just like good football talk.



thats cool. i was pulling for the pats this year when they played the steelers and in the superbowl, they are definately a great team. so whats your feelings as to how much you think patten will help the skins offense ? it's always good to hear what fans of other teams think about the skins.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins][QUOTE=Dirtywater]No, sorry, I'm a Pats fan, but I am an NFL fan as a whole. You won't find too much trash talking from me, just like good football talk.



thats cool. i was pulling for the pats this year when they played the steelers and in the superbowl, they are definately a great team. so whats your feelings as to how much you think patten will help the skins offense ? it's always good to hear what fans of other teams think about the skins.[/QUOTE]

except cowboy, giant, and eagle fans. I know I personally could care less what they think about anything, much less our team.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

i just dont understand why the hell the jets would give him a new deal. he is already very well paid. yes ive already heard the he would be disgruntled bullcrap. so if thats the case should every team just throw more money at every player who is unhappy even if there already very well paid. the answer is no. in my opinion what should have happened is one of two scenarios coles should have gone to the jets under his current contract. and because of the huge cap discount to the jets they should have given us a draft pick and moss. or coles should have had to return some of the bonus recieved from washington and the redskins could have used that money to sign moss to an extension (something they will surely have to do ) that would have made this trade even. but instead coles gets two signing bonuses in three years. ive always liked coles but i dont think the teams put there heads together on this one and coles is laughing all the way to the bank. i just hope this isnt a trend

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=skin4Life28]Great speed, but we still need some size. Might be ok if we draft wideout or if McCants just gets some playing time.[/QUOTE]

Right on! Bye the way I couldnt help but notice where you are located. I went to Gar-Field.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

I'm pretty much in agreement with everybody else...get some size! Whether it's McCants on the field or keeping Gardner or drafting a big target...I don't care. I think we need a big reciever.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins][QUOTE=Dirtywater]No, sorry, I'm a Pats fan, but I am an NFL fan as a whole. You won't find too much trash talking from me, just like good football talk.



thats cool. i was pulling for the pats this year when they played the steelers and in the superbowl, they are definately a great team. so whats your feelings as to how much you think patten will help the skins offense ? it's always good to hear what fans of other teams think about the skins.[/QUOTE]

I have nothing but good things to say about Patten. Granted, as a Pat he was never asked to be or relied upon to be a #1WR, and I don't know how Gibbs plans on using him, but he is a hard working, overachieving player who even if he wanted the ball more never acted lie it. All class.

Add to that, he has a knack for making difficult catches while staying inbounds and he makes a solid #2 or 3. Seems like a good character guy too. Nice pick-up and good for Patten,

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

What exactly is the fascination with big receivers? I understand they are an asset during jumpball situations. I just think getting receivers who can separate from defenders is the real issue. Give me receivers who can create space, big or small. Coles (after the toe) and Gardner were both poor at doing this.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=NYCSkin]What exactly is the fascination with big receivers? I understand they are an asset during jumpball situations. I just think getting receivers who can separate from defenders is the real issue. Give me receivers who can create space, big or small. Coles (after the toe) and Gardner were both poor at doing this.[/QUOTE]

Do I really have to answer that. Come on we are in America where the myth is bigger is better. (As much as it kills me to say it) For that reason we would probably more accurately call ourselves the United States of Texas.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

gibbs had the smurfs... if you can get open i don't care how big you are... just make damned sure you can also catch the ball.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

Quick qustion IF this deal is so damn good for the Skins why do we have a crummy 3rd ex-jets injury prone smurf and now absolutly no cap room ? Thats no Smoot no top replacement for him and no trade for Gardner. Also no top pick as it looks like we have to trade down not up anyone looking for Williams or Edwards here and there is no way we get any leverage in a draft day deal because people will know we are despirate to move down.

I offically hate this deal and it could be the death knoll of the Gibbs second comming because it could take a while to recover from this.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]Coach Gibbs had the smurfs... if you can get open i don't care how big you are... just make damned sure you can also catch the ball.[/QUOTE]And Buges had the Hogs the new O-line is called the dirtbags we need a nickname for the new age Smurfs.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=bedlamVR]Quick qustion IF this deal is so damn good for the Skins why do we have a crummy 3rd ex-jets injury prone smurf and now absolutly no cap room ? Thats no Smoot no top replacement for him and no trade for Gardner. Also no top pick as it looks like we have to trade down not up anyone looking for Williams or Edwards here and there is no way we get any leverage in a draft day deal because people will know we are despirate to move down.

I offically hate this deal and it could be the death knoll of the Gibbs second comming because it could take a while to recover from this.[/QUOTE]
This is making the best of a bad situation. Sure Moss has had injuries in the past, but Coles is a huge injury risk for the future. We might be getting Moss on the upside of his career, while the Jets might be getting the opposite with Coles.

As for the cap, I think we get hammered for 9.3 mill in dead money with Coles this year and then he is off our books for 2006. So as for the future, I think we'll be fine in 2006 clearing Coles salary (and Trotter's 4 mill) off our books. Don't you?

We have the right strategy with Smoot. If he signs our tender, fine. Otherwise, start Harris and draft a young CB. It's the strategy that the Pats, Eagles, and Steelers would be using with Smoot. I'll take their strategy over our recent free agent splurgings anyday...

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

Granted I think Coles is better than Moss and I think there should be some extra compensations, but this is a great move. You can piss and moan now all you want about how we're not re-signing Pierce and may not re-sign Smoot, but what Gibbs is doing is the smart thing. With all the restructures and Coles leaving, we might be able to actually get through next offseason without having to cut a major player. If you don't know what I'm talking about, educate yourself. Click on the "Salary Cap Info" link on the main page. Look at the cap for NEXT year. Up until the Samuels restructure and the Coles trade, we were sailing right toward an iceberg. We might be able to miss it now as a rough estimate is we're down to around $95 mil next year. The cap should be around $90 give or take a couple mil. Signing more free agents to big contracts right now (unless the first couple of years are very light) would be utterly stupid. It is unbelievable how many people here continue to talk about how we should be going and still getting multiple FAs this offseason. This is not going to happen. We're tight on the cap for this year now and our cap next year would suck donkey balls. Did you like the Marty purge? I didn't. That's what we're trying to avoid.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

Also, when do we cut Morton? He's worthless now that we have Brown and Moss to return kicks.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

well i like chad morton. i know he's a third string back but he is excellent on special teams. antonio brown might be cut. moss could return kicks but i read somewhere that you are most likely to get hurt on special teams and if thats true imagine what could happen to moss.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=jacobyfan]Also, when do we cut Morton? He's worthless now that we have Brown and Moss to return kicks.[/QUOTE]

Yes Moss is capable of returning kicks, and Brown proved himself late last year however, I feel that it is essential to keep Morton for three reasons. First of all you want to relieve a starting player (Moss) of special teams duties if you can. Second even if Brown earns the starting return job, you still would like a back up just in case. Third Morton adds depth and another dimension as a receiver out of the backfield.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

I like the deal. We didn't have any leverage and we made the best out of this ugly situation.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=redrock-skins]I like the deal. We didn't have any leverage and we made the best out of this ugly situation.[/QUOTE]

Hoah!

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

Coles doesn't want to be with this team and he also has a hurt toe. he hasn't played as well after he got hurt and on tv i hear he is more fast than quick. coles doesn't get open down deep but that is prolly our system but we need to look at Moss i mean 45 catches but the most on the team was 56, moss was number 2 on the reception total list on the jets. that may not be that big of a concern after looking at that. The Jets were all run, i mean Martin averaged 4.6 yards per carry but still got the number 1 in the league. They ran the ball more than pass, they had 438 attempted passes with 527 rushes. i don't have a calculator handy but that is like 100 more rushes and that may have lead to the less passes caught by moss.

Very similar to David Patten he was also number 2 on the patriots with 44 catches and trailed only david givvens and surpassed superbowl mvp deion branch.

Both of our new recievers are VERY QUICK and are VERY FAST, coles got worse after the injury. he got like 106 then 180 and then 105 yards his first few games then got hurt and those numbers fell for weeks and he never really recovered from the toe he went from that production to 62, 60 60 58 27 then had the amazing game against the seahalks and i think we remember that! then the problems started again 35 62 then better 88 55 0 finishing strong 94 87. it just shows that his production went down in fact he was the second lowest in yards per carry in any reciever with over 90 catches i mean wow and only beat the dirty IKE HILLARD! UGGHHHH!
GARDNER DID BETTER UNDER GIBBS THAN SPURRIER GO FIGGER!

If you read all this be content in saying that you are the truest redskins fan!

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

i think there is more to the trade with terms disclosed but if we get the cap hit hard i'll be pissed out my friggin mind

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]i think there is more to the trade with terms disclosed but if we get the cap hit hard i'll be pissed out my friggin mind[/QUOTE]

Right on!

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

I'll be pissed if Coles suddenly decides to get surgery on that toe of his...but wouldn't it be something if Coles didn't pass his physical on Tuesday because of that toe? Unlikely though

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

What a relief! :) I think that we are really lucky that Coles became so dissatisfied, and precipitated this trade. His health is such question mark, but he was blocking other players from getting a chance because we had so much invested in him.

But the difference in our wide receivers - the speed of these players - man! This is going to open up our offense. It's not so much the plays that open it up - its speed. We didn't really have it last year. Now we have a considerably more seasoned quarterback who knows what Gibbs wants, and we have the offensive line ready to go, the players with blazing speed and playmaking ability at receiver, and Clinton has always been ready.

This team is playoff bound!

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

I really need the undisclosed terms on the trade before my take on it. Right now, if it were the two straight up, given Coles unhappyness, I'll take the trade. We get rid of a whiney player, get a dangerous player in return (even if he's not as complete as Coles).

Now, if we get screwed cap wise, its going to be a different story. I just dont get how we could be taken advantage of so that we would take a, say 9 million dollar hit. So we'll see.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

I guess they figure with the restructuring of Samuel's contract and losing Pierce would put us far enough under the cap to take that $9mil hit this year now all we have to do is have enough money to sign a #9 pick, the rest of our pick's shouldn't be major contract's, and clearing it this season if we can free's up money next season, as someone stated earlier Cole's and Trotter will save us next season around $10 mil.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

If any other team made this move move we would be pointing and laughing.

It makes our front office look increadably weak. One player decides he doesn't have enough money he whines a little in the press and presto chango we drop everything and give him whatever he wants . Coles ins't the first disgruntled WR in the NFL and he wont be the last but this gives a message to anyone here under contract . Not happy withyour 3.6 million this year ? Spent most of your 11 million bonus given to you 2 years ago ? well hit up the FO they a push over.

I thought we were turning the corner here but this move reafffirms us in the joke/laughing stock status in the NFL teams.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

art monk was 6'3, thats not exactly a smurf.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

i don't think this trade makes the skins' front office look weak. it's quite the contrary in my opinion. coles wanted to be a free agent and was willing to give back money to do so but the skins said "HELL NO" if we are going to lose coles we want another wr to take his place. hey coach gibbs , who would you like , asks the dan , i'd like to get santana moss, answers gibbs. the dan replies by saying,i'll make it happen, regardless of whether coles wants to go back to NY. they are also showing that the free spending days are over, they offer a fair contract and say take it or leave it. they finally have a real plan and thats to get unselfish players who want to play for the organization and to weed out all the ones who don't. we just found out where antonio's heart really was, he just wanted a big payday, screw him and screw coles too.

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

It's a good trade either way you look at it. I wouldn't have agreed with getting rid of Coles for nothing, but at the sametime, it is always better to get rid of any player who doesn't want to play for you. I'm glad to see that we're getting a receiver that is pretty much Coles' equal. Hopefully Patten will be a good acquisition for us.

Do we still draft Mike Williams?

Re: Source: Deal Done; Coles For Moss
 

A trade is always going to result in one team getting less "value" than the other, it's the nature of the trading game.

Coles is the more accomplished WR, but Moss isn't exactly a slouch either. If we can keep him healthy (maybe keep him off punt returns), he can be a very dangerous player.

We made the best of a crappy situation. Coles wasn't happy here and he wanted out. Would he have sucked it up and played hard for us if he stayed? I think he would have. But there's also the toe situation and the team had it's concerns regarding that. Maybe they used that as an excuse, or maybe they foresee more problems for him down the road, who knows.

Either way I'm just glad it's over and both sides can now move on. You don't want a disgruntled player on your team, that's just a ticking timebomb.