This goes all the way to the top. Wait, Joe Biden!?!

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;993719]I suspect Goodell shrugged it off because it was something he didnt want to deal with during SB week but I am sure its on his radar.

I dont have a problem with the name Redskins and I dont care if they change it or not, but I do think that the fact the debate has been going on so long means it does still have some merit. Just because something is debated over many years without a resolution doesnt mean something wont change in the future and anyone who thinks the name isnt going to change at some point is fooling themselves. The name will be changed in the next 5 years.[/quote]

I tend to agree with this. I mean, would a change to something like Warriors really be that big of a deal? Hell, you wouldn't have to change much of Hail to the Redskins to get to Hail to the Warrirors. That might be the only changed required.

I, personally, voted for 'yes.' Half because I'm sick of hearing about the name and half because the name is considered offensive. At this stage, I'm somewhat resigned to the fact that it's going to change and I'm pretty much fine with that.

Does this change anyone's opinion?
[quote]George Preston Marshall: The guy that gave the Redskins their nickname was the same owner who was last to integrate African Americans into his team. That's downright embarrassing and will always be a black eye on our organization. It's hard for me to defend a nickname when the original Redskins owner has a history of racism. From a NY Times 2011 article, "As his second head coach, Marshall hired William "Lone Star" Dietz, a journeyman coach at the collegiate level whose mother was most likely a Sioux. It was in "honor" of Dietz, who coached the team for just two seasons and who at Marshall's urging willingly put on war paint and Indian feathers before home games, that Marshall changed the team's name to the Redskins. " Anything that distances our franchise from the beliefs of this guy I'm OK with.[/quote]

[URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/2/8/3967180/4-reasons-a-redskins-name-change-should-not-bother-you"]Hogs Haven[/URL]

It didn't change mine, but I never had a strong opinion one one way or another. I personally, won't be changing my allegiance if they do change their name. I root for the team/organization/players, the name doesn't make much of a difference. Now, of course, there are plenty of names I wouldn't like, but I also don't feel the need to get my panties in a wad just because this is being discussed.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the name, but the fact that a. some people do and b. Webster's defines it as:
[quote]noun Slang: Often Disparaging and Offensive.
a North American Indian.[/quote]

I can see why some people are calling for a name change.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;993719]I suspect Goodell shrugged it off because it was something he didnt want to deal with during SB week but I am sure its on his radar.

I dont have a problem with the name Redskins and I dont care if they change it or not, but I do think that the fact the debate has been going on so long means it does still have some merit. Just because something is debated over many years without a resolution doesnt mean something wont change in the future and anyone who thinks the name isnt going to change at some point is fooling themselves. [B]The name will be changed in the next 5 years[/B].[/quote]

$100 says it won't

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Put it in the bet book.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

What a baffling bunch of crap this all is.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;993729]Put it in the bet book.[/quote]

Ok so let's get the time period straight, when does the 5 year window close? End of 2017?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

They are turning it into a huge negative, I never thought about it like this growing up.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Evilgrin;993733]They are turning it into a huge negative, I never thought about it like this growing up.[/quote]

Welcome to the age of social media.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993732]Ok so let's get the time period straight, when does the 5 year window close? End of 2017?[/quote]

By the start of the 2018 season the name will be changed. By that I mean the 1st day of training camp.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=jdlea;993727]I tend to agree with this. I mean, would a change to something like Warriors really be that big of a deal? Hell, you wouldn't have to change much of Hail to the Redskins to get to Hail to the Warrirors. That might be the only changed required.

I, personally, voted for 'yes.' Half because I'm sick of hearing about the name and half because the name is considered offensive. At this stage, I'm somewhat resigned to the fact that it's going to change and I'm pretty much fine with that.

Does this change anyone's opinion?


[URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/2/8/3967180/4-reasons-a-redskins-name-change-should-not-bother-you"]Hogs Haven[/URL]

It didn't change mine, but I never had a strong opinion one one way or another. I personally, won't be changing my allegiance if they do change their name. I root for the team/organization/players, the name doesn't make much of a difference. Now, of course, there are plenty of names I wouldn't like, but I also don't feel the need to get my panties in a wad just because this is being discussed.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the name, but the fact that a. some people do and b. Webster's defines it as:


I can see why some people are calling for a name change.[/quote]


None of the definitions that say its offernsive explain why its offensive. Hell it seems they don't even know how to define the word. Its a hand full of people at best. Yesterday they were lucky to have 100 people in that room and 20% of them were speakers.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993728]$100 says it won't[/quote]

I thought you gave up betting.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Are we making fun of them? I don't know?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=firstdown;993737]I thought you gave up betting.[/quote]

Hard to pass up a deal like that.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;993735]By the start of the 2018 season the name will be changed. By that I mean the 1st day of training camp.[/quote]

Ok mark it down, I'll put it on my calendar

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993742]Ok mark it down, I'll put it on my calendar[/quote]

Odds that either of you won't remember this bet in 5 years, I'd put them at 50/50.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=mooby;993748]Odds that either of you won't remember this bet in 5 years, I'd put them at 50/50.[/quote]

I've already got it in my calendar on my computer.

How about 100 dollars and public mockery on the warpath. Whatever the "warpath" is called then

[QUOTE=Mattyk;993750]I've already got it in my calendar on my computer.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure that you'll have the same computer in 5 years? Lol. Either way I agree with you, I don't see the name changing in 5 years either.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993750]I've already got it in my calendar on my computer.[/quote]

Your computer will probably be busy managing the court systems by then.

[QUOTE=jdlea;993727]I tend to agree with this. I mean, would a change to something like Warriors really be that big of a deal? Hell, you wouldn't have to change much of Hail to the Redskins to get to Hail to the Warrirors. That might be the only changed required.

[URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/2/8/3967180/4-reasons-a-redskins-name-change-should-not-bother-you"]Hogs Haven[/URL]

I can see why some people are calling for a name change.[/QUOTE]

Same. Think a name change isn't a big deal. The team is and will be the same to me either way. And I also understand why people think it's offensive.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=hooskins;993758]Same. Think a name change isn't a big deal. The team is and will be the same to me either way. And I also understand why people think it's offensive.[/quote]

Yeah, but what do you understand about the name that makes it offensive?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=HailGreen28;993631]Yeah, like Poser's article. the earliest usage of "Redskin" a Google search yields me are examples of indians like "Black Thunder" referring to themselves and whites as "red skins" and "white skins" non-pejoratively.

The racism associated with the name "redskin" came later, in western entertainment like old cowboy movies. These people trying to sue the Redskins should go after those estates / copyright holders. Maybe the club and we fans should join the protesters in that lawsuit, lol.

To suggest the Washington football team would pick an insulting name to call THEMSELVES, for people TO CHEER FOR, is beyond stupid. It's ignoring facts of the name's origin, it's origin with the team, and current usage, to try to win a political issue (Common tactic for liberals/conservatives/everybody it seems sadly), and maybe a guilty liberal "feel good", or bashing those rowdy football fans, or power trip telling an NFL franchise what to do, or even a monetary gain behind taking away a club trademark. Who knows? It's ultimately just plain ignorant to bash the Washington Redskins today.

Lastly, what George Preston Marshall did with segregation was evil and wrong. But ours wasn't the only NFL franchise to segregate, only the last to change because of one racist, the owner. I'm tired of our club being singled out as if all the other clubs old as ours were clean.[/quote]

[url=http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Redskins]Redskins - definition of Redskins by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.[/url]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=mooby;993754]Are you sure that you'll have the same computer in 5 years? Lol. Either way I agree with you, I don't see the name changing in 5 years either.[/quote]

I use iCal for everything, chances are I'll have something Apple related in 5 years

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;993761][URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Redskins"]Redskins - definition of Redskins by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.[/URL][/quote]

(Linguistics / Languages) (Social Science / Peoples) an informal name, [B]now considered offensive[/B], for an [URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/American+Indian"][COLOR=#0066cc]American Indian[/COLOR][/URL] [so called because one particular tribe, the now extinct Beothuks of Newfoundland, painted themselves with red ochre]

There is only one small group that seems to call it offensive and none of these definitions say why its offensive. Because they don't know why its offensive only that some group says so. That group I saw yesterday had more whites and blacks calling it offensive then indians. Who are they to determine if its offensive to another race.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;993761][url=http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Redskins]Redskins - definition of Redskins by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.[/url][/quote]

There's no proof of offense. A slang term for something doesn't equal offensive. Paleface doesn't offend me at all, but it's slang for a white person. Even the high school on the Navajo Reservation in Teec Nos Pos, Arizona used "Redskins" as their mascot.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993763]I use iCal for everything, chances are I'll have something Apple related in 5 years[/quote]

Apple Martini sounds good right about now.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

See I thought this solved all this stuff years ago!

[URL="http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2009/1116/p02s07-usju.html"]Washington Redskins can keep team name; Supreme Court refuses native Americans' suit - CSMonitor.com[/URL]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Some more info, this is old ...2006 but a good read.


[url=http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html]Language Log: The Origin of Redskin[/url]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=firstdown;993766][B]Apple Martini sounds good right about now.[/B][/quote]
........Man card, please

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;993761][url=http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Redskins]Redskins - definition of Redskins by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.[/url][/quote]Your post doesn't make much sense. The definition in your link "redskin: an informal name, now considered offensive, for an American Indian [so called because one particular tribe, the now extinct Beothuks of Newfoundland, painted themselves with red ochre]" is already refuted by the links people gave earlier, and the link you gave later:
[quote=Giantone;993772]Some more info, this is old ...2006 but a good read.
[url=http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html]Language Log: The Origin of Redskin[/url][/quote]
Especially Goddard's link inside the link above. [URL="http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf"]HERE[/URL]

So... thanks for proving the only ones using the name "Redskins" offensively today are the protesters???

(and giants/cowboys/eagles fans during the season??? :) )

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Oh, boo-hoo. Anyone who finds the Redskin's name offensive can go sit in a corner and suck their thumb. Anyway, what about the Saints. Do atheists find that name offensive?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SirLK26;993785][B]Oh, boo-hoo. Anyone who finds the Redskin's name offensive can go sit in a corner and suck their thumb. [/B]Anyway, what about the Saints. Do atheists find that name offensive?[/quote]
Amen.....Welcome to the WP!
What part of S Tx you in?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=HailGreen28;993777]Your post doesn't make much sense. The definition in your link "redskin: an informal name, now considered offensive, for an American Indian [so called because one particular tribe, the now extinct Beothuks of Newfoundland, painted themselves with red ochre]" is already refuted by the links people gave earlier, and the link you gave later:

Especially Goddard's link inside the link above. [URL="http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf"]HERE[/URL]

So... thanks for proving the only ones using the name "Redskins" offensively today are the protesters???

(and giants/cowboys/eagles fans during the season??? :) )[/quote]


I see we pick and choose. I said in another post I thought this was over years ago,it seems kind of silly to keep rehashing this thing.


here it is....

[URL="http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=3c1074125499a575d1122710576a769d&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thewarpath.net%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D993777&v=1&libid=1360398251703&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csmonitor.com%2FUSA%2FJustice%2F2009%2F1116%2Fp02s07-usju.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thewarpath.net%2Fredskins-locker-room%2F51711-smithsonian-museum-yet-another-thread-team-5.html&title=The%20Warpath%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=Washington%20Redskins%20can%20keep%20team%20name%3B%20Supreme%20Court%20refuses%20native%20Americans'%20suit%20-%20CSMonitor.com&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13603984623512"][COLOR=#0066cc]Washington Redskins can keep team name; Supreme Court refuses native Americans' suit - CSMonitor.com[/COLOR][/URL]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993763]I use iCal for everything, chances are I'll have something Apple related in 5 years[/quote]

Touche.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

:sleep::Flush:

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;993750]I've already got it in my calendar on my computer.[/quote]

Its also in my computer's calendar.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Some of this post will be obvious to you diehards, but not everyone knows the history of the skins:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Preston_Marshall]George Preston Marshall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[QUOTE]In 1932, he and three other partners were awarded an NFL franchise for Boston. This team became known as the Boston Braves, as they played on the same field as baseball's Boston Braves. [B]Marshall's partners left the team after one season, leaving him in control. In 1933 he moved the team from Braves Field to Fenway Park, changing the team nickname to the Redskins.[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Marshall has gained infamy for his intractable opposition to having African-Americans on his roster. According to professor Charles Ross, "For 24 years Marshall was identified as the leading racist in the NFL".[/QUOTE]

I have many friends that have played for the team and love the history associated with the name. I also see that if you flipped it to another skin color, it may be more clear for others. Tough call when you see both sides of the argument as having merit.

Remember in the 1930's there were many other names for different minority groups. While the groups did not have the political clout to do anything about them at that time, in our era they are considered HIGHLY offensive.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

The Skins history is very sordid, but that is part of what makes it so interesting. I'm not proud of the history, but we can't change it, and we should never ever forget it. His racism had a huge part in our rivalry with the Cowboys.

I said earlier in the thread that, its not fair to call people racist for supporting the name. I was probably 20 before I had any idea that it was a racial slur, maybe even older. Different people have totally different perceptions of the word.

All that said, I'm on the side of change the name.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

What would we call them the Washington Indians.

Hail to the Indians.
Hail Vic-tor-y
Braves on the Warpath
Fight for old D.C.
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Fight!, Fight!, Fight!
Hail to the Indians
Hail Vic-tor-y
Braves on the Warpath
Fight for old D.C.

It sucks, I still dont believe the term Redskin is a slur. In my mind it is a term used to describe a warrior. A real tuff dude with an bow and arrow.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.