Re: I can't wait to hear the other side...
 

I Really Thought He Had Changed From His Earlier Years, But Coles Still Seems To Be Suckin That Ol Thumb. Gibbs Is Just A Man And Is Not Perfect, But He Is A Better Person. Coles Show's His True Color's By Running His Mouth Like A Baby. Snyder Was Justified For His Anger . It's Just Better That He's Gone. He Was A Cancer.

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[QUOTE=FRPLG]Superbowl contenders?! Excuse my rudeness but are you out of your mind? [/QUOTE]

I can name at least three magazines before the start of last season that had us going to the playoffs and possibly taking the eagles out at the beginning of last season before Jansen was lost.we were excellent on paper. That injury killed the season. but we had very high expectations comming into last season. Any team can when on any given sunday. You can't tell me that if the offense could even halfway meet the play of the defense last season that we couldn't have went far into the playoffs. We had a better defense than the eagles and we had a better running back as well. Hell our total supporting cast around the qb was better than the eagles! but they couldn't get it done when it counted.

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[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]we were excellent on paper.[/QUOTE]

We're ALWAYS excellent on paper. we play on turf, so it doesn't translate, ever. I'd take a really horrible off season, dreadful pre-season and a great season followed by a perfect post-season, thanks.

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[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]We had a better defense than the eagles and we had a better running back as well. Hell our total supporting cast around the qb was better than the eagles! but they couldn't get it done when it counted.[/QUOTE]
If our offense matched our defense we should have made the playoffs, but not the Super Bowl.. Our supporting cast was not as good as the Eagles, sorry.. Chad Lewis and LJ Smith are better than any TE/H-Back on our roster. T.O. is ten times the WR than anyone on our roster as well and McNabb is leaps and bounds better than our QBs.. With a good offense we could have been 10-6, 11-5, but Super Bowl, I don't think so.

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[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]I can name at least three magazines before the start of last season that had us going to the playoffs and possibly taking the eagles out at the beginning of last season before Jansen was lost.we were excellent on paper. That injury killed the season. but we had very high expectations comming into last season. Any team can when on any given sunday. You can't tell me that if the offense could even halfway meet the play of the defense last season that we couldn't have went far into the playoffs. We had a better defense than the eagles and we had a better running back as well. Hell our total supporting cast around the qb was better than the eagles! but they couldn't get it done when it counted.[/QUOTE]
Name 'em...

And if you do..I don't care what was said before the season really. What does matter is what could have reasonable been expected of this season given what we know. We know they had issues. From top to bottom. But there is no way this team was winning or contending for the super bowl last year. There just wasn't. I don't care who the coach was.

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[QUOTE=Paintrain]If our offense matched our defense we should have made the playoffs, but not the Super Bowl.. Our supporting cast was not as good as the Eagles, sorry.. Chad Lewis and LJ Smith are better than any TE/H-Back on our roster. T.O. is ten times the WR than anyone on our roster as well and McNabb is leaps and bounds better than our QBs.. With a good offense we could have been 10-6, 11-5, but Super Bowl, I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
As bad as the NFC was, we were really just a few plays away from winning a couple more games and making the playoffs. And the way I think of it, once your in, it's anyone's game. See the 2000 Ravens and Giants, 2001 Pats, 2002 Bucs, 2003 Panthers, etc....

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Here's my biggest problem with Coles: he didn't believe that the skins are going to be better next year and the year after that. If he didn't believe that, he was poison to the team. Does he really think they don't want to throw deep? With a better O-line (Jansen and Robach (sp?)), a more mature QB, a RB comfortable and running behind that improved O-line, the deep throws are going to be there. Did Coles think that we wouldn't TRY to throw deep to him? He got 90 passes in an offense that ran and punted all the time!

Basically, Gibbs said, hey, we're gonna open it up, and once the offense is in synch you'll be the next Gary Clark, and Coles said, I don't believe you coach Gibbs, I want out. Well, Bye, bye, BITCH. And please don't talk to me about respect.

As for playcalling and such, look Coles met with Gibbs more than once and they talked. Do you really think Gibbs just ignored Coles? I'm sure he took it into account and then made his game plan. I'm sure he also spoke to Portis, Ramsey, Bugel, etc, etc. But the coach makes the decisions. Note to Coles: it's like that in NY as well.

As for the skins being good or not, and about Gibbs getting things going on offense, we'll just have to wait and see. Winning is the only thing that will decide the issue. Right now we're a 6-10 team in transition, so comparisons to the Iggles are beside the point.

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i don't think coles cared if the skins were going to be better next year or not , all he cared about was how coach gibbs was going to use him. coles is selfish, there really is NO OTHER WAY to put it.

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people predicted the skins were going to be good before the season started for the simple fact that gibbs was returning . you can bet your asses the predictions would not have been so favorable if spurier was the returning coach. the predictions would have been that the skins would be out of qbs by week 5.

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Whatever, I'm just glad he's gone and this mess is over with.

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[QUOTE=saden1]One should listen to players. I don't know though, Gibbs seems to listen to Portis about plays.[/QUOTE]

It's funny I was watching the 2nd Skins-Giants game last night and the announcers talked about how Portis and Gibbs talked during the week and how Portis pleaded for more carries.

Gibbs listens to his players, there's obviously something there between Gibbs and Coles that goes a little deeper.

They just don't see eye to eye on things, and that's fine. See ya in NY Coles.

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[QUOTE=saden1]Who knew little man Snyder had some spunk? He sure told him didn’t he?[/QUOTE]

Go get em Danny! LOL This is great!

[quote]If you want to know how badly Coles and the Redskins needed a divorce, consider this: Redskins owner [b]Daniel Snyder[/b] threatened Coles when the receiver's refusal to accept the trade without a contract extension thwarted the deal last month. "He said that if I stayed in Washington, he would turn me into another [b]Terry Glenn[/b]," Coles said. (Glenn, now with the Cowboys, missed most of the 2001 season with New England as his public feud with head coach [b]Bill Belichick[/b] resulted in various fines, suspensions and ultimately Glenn's benching). "He said he would send a flat-screen television to my home because I'd be better off watching the games there. That was his way of saying I'd be sitting for the next couple years until they cut me."[/quote]

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I wonder what Coles will have to say at his press conference. He talked trash about the Jets when he left there, wonder if he'll do the same about the Skins.

Sounds like they may have come to an understanding though:

[quote]As for positive comments about the Redskins, Coles is working on that. He's already reconciled with Snyder and there's even been some progress made with Gibbs. "We came to the conclusion that if we met in the street, we could shake hands and be cordial," Coles said of Gibbs. "But that's about it."[/quote]

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You can't have a player bugging the coach constanly about play calling, wonder what sort of distaction Coles was in the huddle. Coach was away 12 yrs., NFL had changes and he has to get the rust off.

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I believe that Gibbs opened the door to all this by telling players who did not want to be here to let him know so the team could move them on. My guess is that he did not suspect Coles would be one of the guys on his doorstep straightaway.

Once that happened, there were no "good outcomes" to be had. What we seem to have gotten is one of the worst possible outcomes, but given that the FO got involved, what can you expect?

I remember last year when Antonio Bryant went off on Bill Parcells how lots of people here took Bryant's side because of the perception that Parcells was a dictatorial pr*ck. Interesting how none of that shows up in this situation...


FRPLG:

You seriously need to think about anger issues. Wishing a car accident to end a career on someone because he doesn't want to play for the Washington Redskins is something that begins to get real near the edge. Breaking things because a player forces a team to trade him is also not a socially constructive set of behaviors. Come down from the ledge, my man.


That sure is tough talk from Danny Boy but that is the same thing as carrying dead money with you for years to come. Pay Coles and carry his cap numbers and don't play him is not a way to free up cap space for any constructive purpose. Notice how Danny Boy didn't follow through on the threat. Interestingly, he is accused of not following through on promises either by Coles and Arrington. Hmmm....

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[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]
I remember last year when Antonio Bryant went off on Bill Parcells how lots of people here took Bryant's side because of the perception that Parcells was a dictatorial pr*ck. Interesting how none of that shows up in this situation...
[/QUOTE]
I think Parcells history and general demeanor had a lot to do with that perception.. Gibbs however has never shown that side before nor has it been raised as an issue in his previous, NASCAR or current tenures..

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[QUOTE=Paintrain]I think Parcells history and general demeanor had a lot to do with that perception.. Gibbs however has never shown that side before nor has it been raised as an issue in his previous, NASCAR or current tenures..[/QUOTE]

Gibbs doesn't show it publicly, behind the scenes may be a different story from what alot of his ex-players say.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Gibbs doesn't show it publicly, behind the scenes may be a different story from what alot of his ex-players say.[/QUOTE]
I've heard that he is tougher than he appears but I have always heard that he is respectful to players (as men) and is fair.. With the outpouring of love and support from Gibbs former players I can't imagine that the majority of them feel as though he was a dictatorial pr*ck.. The same can't be said of Parcells..

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Hey SC...get off your high horse. I think some around here are tired of your bad attitude and constant negativity. I know I sure am. If you are dense enough to not recognize hyperbole then it is obvious how clouded your judgement. No wonder I skip over your posts usually.

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You mean Ramsey wanted to leave because his role was being diminished? Just like Coles?

Of COURSE he didn't tell the media: Yeah, I asked to be traded.

He would be shooting himself in the foot. Both of them did it for selfish reasons and since Coles is gone now he's the bad guy.

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There's a huge ifference between a diminished role and being benched.

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Ramsey also meet with Gibbs and bought into the situation. Coles didn't. Coles is dead to me.

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[QUOTE=Gmanc711]"If you want to know how badly Coles and the Redskins needed a divorce, consider this: Redskins owner Daniel Snyder threatened Coles when the receiver's refusal to accept the trade without a contract extension thwarted the deal last month. "He said that if I stayed in Washington, he would turn me into another Terry Glenn," Coles said. (Glenn, now with the Cowboys, missed most of the 2001 season with New England as his public feud with head coach Bill Belichick resulted in various fines, suspensions and ultimately Glenn's benching). "He said he would send a flat-screen television to my home because I'd be better off watching the games there. That was his way of saying I'd be sitting for the next couple years until they cut me."

God I wish Snyder just did that. That would have been the most bad-ass thing ever.[/QUOTE]

When Snyder bought the Redskins he tried to run it like one of his businesses and it didn't work.......then he tried buying the big name free agents but that didn't work out either. he finally stepped back into the shadows this season and let Gibbs and company run the show.....he did step in when he needed to in the Coles situation and FLEX his OWNER'S muscles ...I like what he said I applaud him!!!! Good for you Snyder!!!! :headbange

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yeah. curtis martin. #1 rusher in the league last year. i would rather listen to portis than coles. if coles was calling plays he'd probably run every play that involves him running a deep route. IT's over now, he plays for the jets (who, by the way, have a nonexistent deep ball) and we have one of the fastest guys in the league who probably doesn't mind playing for a run first offense. we only had one problem on our team last year. the defense went above and beyond anyone's expectations. our running game was okay, not spectacular, but c.p. did have 1300 yards and five touchdowns, (which is five times the number of touchdowns coles had). last, but certainly not least, our passing game. horrendous, 28th in the league. where do you think we need to improve? hmm, is it defense. no. is it our running game. maybe a little. is it our passing game. bingo, yatzhee. i don't know how you can catch 90 passes in a season and still be unhappy, but its obvious there is someone in the league that will do that. i.e. coles.

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Interesting tidbit from Wednesday's Washington Times:

"And yet, Coles managed to not only catch a career-high 90 passes in Gibbs' more conservative scheme, but according to STATS Inc., he had more balls thrown his way than anyone in the NFC. "

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All I know is that I wish that Snyder would send a flat screen TV my way!!! That would be awsome!!!!

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SOunds like coles needs a hug, ahhhh poor LC ;) . but this is the type of treatment players expect now a days with them thinking they should get play calling input, personel input, and that their $h!t don't stink.

I can't believe I actually thought this guy was tough and had a pair, but this sure doesn't make it seem like that's the case.

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[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18520-2005Mar8.html?sub=AR"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18520-2005Mar8.html?sub=AR[/url]

The WP has a great article today about the entire Coles mess. I actually feel bad for both sides, they wanted to keep it under wraps and out of the press but once the story leaked that's when things got ugly.

I can see both sides view, but it just strikes me odd that Coles seems so wrapped up in his personal stats. He caught 90 balls in a run oriented offense but I guess it wasn't the kind of 90 catches he wanted, and he seemed irked that Gibbs didn't feed him the ball against Minnesota so he could go over 1000 yards.

I'm actually surprised he had some positive things to say about Gibbs:

[quote]"The best thing I can say about him is he's proven that he can win," Coles said. "And I know with his determination he's going to get that team turned around. He told us that whether it's this year, next year or the year after, he's going to have guys on his team that are going to want to win and fight for him. With his work ethic, he will eventually get that done. But I was just too miserable to stay aboard."

Coles added that despite his criticism of the organization, he wishes the Redskins well, especially former teammates.[/quote]

Sounds like the whole situation just got blown out of proportion, emotions got involved and things got ugly quick.

At least it's over now.

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coles had 168 passes thrown his way... the ONLY player that got more attention was chad johnson with 170.

I still think we go williams/edwards is either is available. If not we can trade down and consider our options... but the running game and passing game improved greatly (though indirectly) from 2 major upgrades on the O line and some legit, but not excellent deep threats.

I think if we get edwards and then draft a cb for backup duty (for now) in the 2nd-3rd round (if we dont go after dyson), we'll be alright (top 16 offense maybe? top ten defense...) and be able to win more games...

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i think people are missing part of the picture of Coles. he's not necessarily upset that he's not getting the ball. people keep pointing out his 90 catches, and that he was thrown to the most in the NFC last year. he's mad because he wasn't able to stretch the field in the offense this past season, and didn't see anything changing. he also had only 1 TD, whereas Cooley and Gardner had many more.

i think it has a lot to do with his toe. he won't admit it, but he was obviously not playing at 100% last year. and since he refused to get the surgery, Gibbs saw him as a liability more than an asset. he shipped him out, got a WR of decent quality, but not the caliber that a healthy Coles is, and that is that.

Coles is being extremely childish, and the "didn't sign up for this" comment only makes matters worse. he's got the "vs. the world" complex. he took the wrap at Florida State in the foot locker scandal. he trashed the jets when they sent him here, and now he's trashing the Skins on his way back up I-95. don't let the positive comments about the Skins fool you. PR is a strong tool, and with his complex, he's trying to show that it wasn't about him. good riddance!

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[QUOTE=AndySkinUK]Coles has 0 Superbowl rings

Gibbs has 3 Superbowl rings


I know who i believe, and my guy has a healthy toe.[/QUOTE]

AMEN AndySKINUK :headbange

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FRPLG:

Interestingly, you didn't skip over the one post I had here that said you were a bit near the edge. Amazing coincidence no?

If you think others here are also tired of my posts, you're probably right. But as usual, you're guessing and speculating because I'll wager you can't read minds. I know you can't read mine right now...

You don't like my negativity. Good for you. Read other posts. I don't think it's particularly useful to sit around and pretend that everything is wonderful and perfect with regard to a team that has gone 11-21 in the past two years and is below .500 since the day Danny Boy took over. You think that's just swell? Keep on keepin' on.

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Let me get this straight: Coles is saying, "this is not what I signed up for." He signed up to play for the Washington Redskins! Maybe there should have been something in his contract that stated if Steve Spurrier changed his offensive system or left, then Coles goes with him.

I'm sorry, the man is getting paid millions of dollars to play a sport! Some people are lucky to get paid a little more than minimum wage to do hard grunt work! So what if we had a rough year offensively this past season?

I seem to remember a statement he made before the season began and while it probably was in jest, it certainly makes me think! I remember Coles being asked about the offense and Coles replying, "It doesn't matter anyway, the ball is just going to be handed off to Portis." Not trying to start ugly rumors, but it just makes me wonder if Coles had already formed some type of negative thoughts about the offense even before the season began?

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I still don't see how you can complain from catching the ball 90 damn times, not to mention the times he was THROWN at. If you catch the ball 90 times, it is your FEET that's the problem, not the playcalling.

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"This isn't what a signed up for"? Coles, you signed a 35-freakin million dollar contract. Take your money, shut up and do what the coach tells you, whoever that may be. So glad he's gone!

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Me too. I hate that I used to respect him so much. What an ass.

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[QUOTE=Paintrain]I've heard that he is tougher than he appears but I have always heard that he is respectful to players (as men) and is fair.. With the outpouring of love and support from Gibbs former players I can't imagine that the majority of them feel as though he was a dictatorial pr*ck.. The same can't be said of Parcells..[/QUOTE]

I remember a game against the Cardinals and the Redskins were playing really bad........at halftime Dexter Manley said that Joe Gibbs was so mad he knocked over the table with juice and gatorade and the drinks went flying everywhere. And the Redskins came back and ended up winning that game :)

Another time Joe was diagramming a play on the blackboard, again he was mad and hit the blackboard so hard he broke his hand!!!! Yes he IS much tougher than he appears.....at least according to Dexter Manley................... :coach:

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[QUOTE=Daseal]Gortiz - guess he pissed off the Jets so bad they traded to get him back...

You think Coles feels like he has time for longterm success? Probably not - careers are short. FRPLG, please, tell me. When was the last time the skins made the playoffs? Everyone acts like we're on the brink of Super Bowl when we have yet to see anything. I saw very little progression in playcalling last year, and as of now I don't have faith that we're going to have an offense that can produce 21 points a game next year. Until I see something that tells me otherwise, I will keep this assumption.

Yeah - Gibbs has 3 rings. Good job - he did a great job back then. I have yet to do him those fabled halftime adjustments, or pull a game out in this era. He gets up by 7 in the first half and tries to run the clock out. You can't do that anymore. You need to be ruthless and put up points.

I think Coles is a bit closer to the situation than any of us. You don't think it says SOMETHING about the playcalling when both starting WRs want to get a ticket out of town? You think that doesn't spell more losses for next year? I'm guessing they've heard next years plan -- and they don't like it.

Coles came here under Spurrier. The fun and gun. The same coach that QB Patrick Ramsey, Coles, and other players weren't shy to say they wanted to stick around for another year. They thought he had it. It's hypothetical, but Spurrier put up points. His biggest downfall was being too stubborn about changing his assistants. If he would have hired D coordinator, D line coach, and O line coach of the Redskins now - I think we could have easily made the playoffs last year, especially in a pathetic NFC.

Coles came here THINKING he was going to be the goto receiver that would get a lot of catches, deep balls, and be the threat everyone knew he could be at Florida state. Gibbs comes in, handcuffs his routes, and called some across the middle that about got him killed (thanks to inaccurate QBing too!)

I can perfectly understand why he wanted out. He didn't go through the media and complained. He tried to keep it between the skins, himself, and his agent. The media got ahold of the leaked information and all of a sudden people turn on him.

I don't see Coles as a "bad guy" for wanting out of DC. He also said if he weren't traded/released he'd play his best next year too. I believe that because he's not the Arrington type to have a greivance and maybe sit out when you don't have to (which I think if he had that 6.5 mil he woulda played a bit more, just my personal view.)

He's not a bad guy, he just feels he was being used incorrectly, doesn't feel the coach believed in him, and didn't feel like he was being used correctly. I don't see that as selfish so much. I don't think that if the team were winning he'd care. Simple fact of the matter is we weren't winning and didn't try anything new to change it. Why not try to put the ball in the hands of one of our best playmakers? Remember - these guys probably grew up elsewhere loving other teams besides the Redskins. It's hard for us to imagine why they want out because many of them didn't grow up Washington fans. Hell, Springs grew up a Cowboys fan! They don't have the loyalty we have and I can completely understand why he wants out. I would have been embarrassed playing in that offense last year.[/QUOTE]

If he was such a good guy and he should've made this trade as cap friendly for the Redskins as he could in order to be able to play in an offense he liked. At first he was going to pay back part of his signing bonus so the Skins wouldn't take such a cap hit, then he decided to play hardball and take the "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME" attitude and the Redskins took an ENOURMOUS cap hit. And he is so WISHY WASHY....he says bad things about the Redskins one minute, then he said the Redskins agreed to a trade because the Redskins are such a wonderful organization.... Is he psychzaphrenic (sp?) or what... ..but thats not the real reason...it's because everything went HIS way, he got everything he wanted..........he got to keep his money from the Redskins, screwed us, and got to the team HE WANTED!!!! .....Coles can take his stinkin' bad toe and go to NY.....GOOD RIDDANCE TO BAD GARBAGE!!! I'M SICK OF THIS, GLAD IT'S OVER AND DONE!!!! :vomit-smi

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There was only one person in all of football who had the ball thrown his way more than Coles last year, Chad Johnson (Cin). He was upset because his ypc was 10.6 the lowest of his career. Sounds pretty "selfish" to me. This is a classic case of jumping the gun. Instead of being patient and letting the system open up and/or letting the toe heal, he got hasty and wanted out. Maybe he was too busy stealing shoes with Peter Warrick to remember guys named Monk, Clark, Sanders, etc. who all stretched the field under this guy he doesn't "trust". What's worse is the front office let him out. They could have sat him and taken a $3.3 mil hit, but they chose to trade him and take a $9.3 mil hit. That's $6 mil that possible could have locked up Smoot or Pierce. Brilliant job, GM Snyder. Oh wait, we don't have a GM. We got $6 beers, though. Moron!

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WE WOULDN'T SIGN THEM ANYWAYS!!! even if we had the cash, gibbs made it very clear that the skins wouldn't have increased their offers to either pierce or smoot in any way.

He's looking at the 17$mill we need to clear next year to meet the cap and thought it'd be better to take this now. The NFLPA was already questioning whether a bonus takeback by coles would be legit, so you can't even assume ditching him would have cleared the cap space... sitting him means we're paying 3.3$mill for a WR that probably wouldn't even play and then paying him again next year to stay home while leaving a gap at our #1 WR position... i don't really like that idea.