Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

there's certain areas of concern. where i was, it really wasn't an issue.

everyone's heard about something at the academy, and there's a reason for it. there are issues there.

if you get stuck in a deployment with people you don't know and you're one of the 5% of females in that situation... there's an issue of not having people looking out for you.

the leadership where i was took that and safety stuff very very seriously, and we didn't have those kinds of problems (and our unit was pretty big and 95% male and on year round deployments of some sort), so i can only speak of things i've heard second hand from others where that may not have been the case.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1011057]I am blaming the media.
For hyping it.
Its an issue across the board. The ball is dropped everywhere.
So yes, it should be a non story because they are singling out the military.
Is today the military's turn to get beat up over it?
When do we bash other entity's that have have this issue.
Because all of the private sectors do.

And as I stated before - its harder to control in the military because >>> see all the stuff I have already posted above.[/quote]

Singled out my ass. This isn't some mom and pop operation it's the f'ing military. Big organization + big scandal = big news. C'mon man.

Was Penn St singled out?

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

AlvinWalton in this thread is burying himself worse than GiantOne in the gun threads.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011060]Singled out my ass. This isn't some mom and pop operation it's the f'ing military. Big organization + big scandal = big news. C'mon man.

Was Penn St singled out?[/quote]

Yes its big news, not denying that at all.
Big news is whatever the media decides it should be.
Singled out.....big time......and you guys eat it up like whip cream on pie.
Yes, Penn state was singled out because it made for an awesome story.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Daseal;1011061]AlvinWalton in this thread is burying himself worse than GiantOne in the gun threads.[/quote]

When the back of your ears finish drying you can reply again.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Daseal;1011061]AlvinWalton in this thread is burying himself worse than GiantOne in the gun threads.[/quote]

/thread

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1011062]Yes its big news, not denying that at all.
Big news is whatever the media decides it should be.
Singled out.....big time......and you guys eat it up like whip cream on pie.
Yes, Penn state was singled out because it made for an awesome story.[/quote]

Keep diggin'

[QUOTE=Daseal;1011061]AlvinWalton in this thread is burying himself worse than GiantOne in the gun threads.[/QUOTE]

Easiest way to get AW's dander up say something less then glowing about the military.

As for losing faith, the military has a ton of flaws and is grossly over spent on, but in terms of the big three, media govt and military, I still have the most faith in the military. Most who go in are doing it and accepting that their life may be lost in defense of higher values. most politicians and media, imo, are first after there self glory, and national principles 2nd at best.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011066]Keep diggin'[/quote]

Its not my fault if you are a media sheep.
But whatever.....if you want to hang a Wolf Blitzer fathead in your living room its your right to do so..

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

This thread took a turn for the stupid. Set the emotional reactions aside and ask yourself whether there is any evidence that the cover ups happening in the military are happening more often than they happen elsewhere... At college fraternities, in high schools, in social circles, etc. now that light has been shined on it they better fix it, but the light needs to be shined on so many parts of society, the military is only a microcosm.

[QUOTE=Alvin Walton;1011070]Its not my fault if you are a media sheep.
But whatever.....if you want to hang a Wolf Blitzer fathead in your living room its your right to do so..[/QUOTE]

You'll now be known as Giant-two

Congrats

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1011071]This thread took a turn for the stupid. Set the emotional reactions aside and ask yourself whether there is any evidence that the cover ups happening in the military are happening more often than they happen elsewhere... At college fraternities, in high schools, in social circles, etc. now that light has been shined on it they better fix it, but the light needs to be shined on so many parts of society, the military is only a microcosm.[/quote]

Of course it's a widespread issue across society.

Doesn't matter where it happens, a scandal like this is still worth talking about, no? Or is it a non story as G2 suggests?

I think someone is perhaps a little too biased to see the story for what it is. Sort of like the Penn St lifers who thought Joe Pa was an angel right to the bitter end.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
............no

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1011071]This thread took a turn for the stupid. Set the emotional reactions aside and ask yourself whether there is any evidence that the cover ups happening in the military are happening more often than they happen elsewhere... At college fraternities, in high schools, in social circles, etc. now that light has been shined on it they better fix it, but the light needs to be shined on so many parts of society, the military is only a microcosm.[/quote]

True. But I don't think Matty was trying to compare it to other parts of society necessarily, just looking at the military alone. And, right or wrong, many have higher expectations of the military than they may have of other areas

And what kind of moron puts any blame on the media for this?

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011072]You'll now be known as Giant-two

Congrats[/quote]
:goodjob:
LOL.........that lucky devil!!!

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Daseal;1011061]AlvinWalton in this thread is burying himself worse than GiantOne in the gun threads.[/quote]


Thank You.....,I think?:silly:

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1011089]True. But I don't think Matty was trying to compare it to other parts of society necessarily, just looking at the military alone. And, right or wrong, many have higher expectations of the military than they may have of other areas

And what kind of moron puts any blame on the media for this?[/quote]

I dont know?
What kind?
Are you calling me a moron?
I have already stated I blame congress for creating the conditions.
And read what I wrote on page three about[I] not blaming the media[/I].
Unless you dont care what I write and want to creat your own version.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1011095]I dont know?
What kind?
Are you calling me a moron?
I have already stated I blame congress for creating the conditions.
And read what I wrote on page three about[I] not blaming the media[/I].
Unless you dont care what I write and want to creat your own version.[/quote]

Post #40. You wrote "I am blaming the media. For hyping it"

That doesn't count as "any kind of blame"?

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1011097]Post #40. You wrote "I am blaming the media. For hyping it"

That doesn't count as "any kind of blame"?[/quote]

Yep, I'm blaming the media for hyping it.
I'm not blaming the media for poor conduct in the military (which would be ludicrous), which is what this thread is about.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1011071]This thread took a turn for the stupid. Set the emotional reactions aside and ask yourself whether there is any evidence that the cover ups happening in the military are happening more often than they happen elsewhere... At college fraternities, in high schools, in social circles, etc. now that light has been shined on it they better fix it, but the light needs to be shined on so many parts of society, the military is only a microcosm.[/quote]

I definitely agree. But the assertion in this thread that the military is just being singled out...as if to diminish the importance of dealing with the issue is absurd. I know AW isn't trying to sound like that but it really comes off as "Ehhh it happens everywhere so no biggie"

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

I think it is important to note that it would seem the very nature of the military would make this easier to deal with than in civilian society too. It is possible for commanding staff to assert a greater amount of control on their "employees" than it is in any other walk of life. Not that it is easy but they do have a built in structure for managing the lives of their soldiers and cadets.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1011089]True. But I don't think Matty was trying to compare it to other parts of society necessarily, just looking at the military alone. And, right or wrong, many have higher expectations of the military than they may have of other areas

And what kind of moron puts any blame on the media for this?[/quote]

Acknowledged. But why look at the military alone? That's my whole thing. Absent any evidence that says rape and sexual assault happens in the military at a higher rate than it does in other parts of society, then I don't know why you wouldn't try to address sexual assault and related coverups more broadly as a societal issue, rather than single out the military.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1011127]Acknowledged. But why look at the military alone? That's my whole thing. Absent any evidence that says rape and sexual assault happens in the military at a higher rate than it does in other parts of society, then I don't know why you wouldn't try to address sexual assault and related coverups more broadly as a societal issue, rather than single out the military.[/quote]

So feel free to add other sexual abuse scandals here. Let's just have one big sexual abuse scandal thread. Just like we did with Penn St., right?

Apparently if an issue is widespread enough discussing individual cases is off the table?

At the end of the day whether it's the military, the church, or a major university, it's pretty damn big news. These organizations single themselves out with these giant F ups.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=FRPLG;1011117]I definitely agree. But the assertion in this thread that the military is just being singled out...as if to diminish the importance of dealing with the issue is absurd. I know AW isn't trying to sound like that but it really comes off as "Ehhh it happens everywhere so no biggie"[/quote]

I would like to distance myself from AW in every way possible, because he just can't make a coherent point and discusses like a child. That's first and foremost.

The media latches on to the latest story and the latest trends and runs with it. Newtown Connecticut, 26 white people killed. Coverage out the wazoo, even national media like Brian Williams and NBC Nightly News descending upon the community. Guess what though, 26 black people are killed by guns in downtown Philadelphia every few weeks. That kind of gets glossed over by the media. Rightly or wrongly, it just does. Maybe it's because gun violence in poor areas is expected, and gun violence in a quiet suburban community isn't. I don't know.

But the media has latched onto sexual assaults in the military just the same. Because the cover ups in particular are outrageous. Yet there has been no evidence presented that says sexual assaults and subsequent cover ups don't happen elsewhere just as often.

The media finds a story, it's outrageous, they push it. People see it, get outraged, and have an emotional reaction. So the story gets even more legs, and grows and grows.

But if you want to have a serious conversation about stopping sexual assaults, it would be narrow minded to limit that conversation to the military and what it can do about it. If you want to affect change that will improve the most lives, you broaden the perspective. The military may be able to affect change quickly because of the chain of command as FRPLG mentions, but that shouldn't be our sole focus.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1011130]I would like to distance myself from AW in every way possible, because he just can't make a coherent point and discusses like a child. That's first and foremost.

The media latches on to the latest story and the latest trends and runs with it. Newtown Connecticut, 26 white people killed. Coverage out the wazoo, even national media like Brian Williams and NBC Nightly News descending upon the community. Guess what though, 26 black people are killed by guns in downtown Philadelphia every few weeks. That kind of gets glossed over by the media. Rightly or wrongly, it just does. Maybe it's because gun violence in poor areas is expected, and gun violence in a quiet suburban community isn't. I don't know.

But the media has latched onto sexual assaults in the military just the same. Because the cover ups in particular are outrageous. Yet there has been no evidence presented that says sexual assaults and subsequent cover ups don't happen elsewhere just as often.

The media finds a story, it's outrageous, they push it. People see it, get outraged, and have an emotional reaction. So the story gets even more legs, and grows and grows.

But if you want to have a serious conversation about stopping sexual assaults, it would be narrow minded to limit that conversation to the military and what it can do about it. If you want to affect change that will improve the most lives, you broaden the perspective. The military may be able to affect change quickly because of the chain of command as FRPLG mentions, but that shouldn't be our sole focus.[/quote]

Point taken.

I don't think myself or anyone else is saying the military is the sole problem. But right now they are the big headline story, fair or not that's just how it goes.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[url=http://m.guardiannews.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks]Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media[/url]


[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/us-govt-secretly-collecting-data-millions-verizon-users-013542225.html]U.S. government secretly collecting data on millions of Verizon users: Report[/url]



I've lost faith in any government agency we currently have.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

I know I'm biased because "the media" writes my checks but A) there's a whole other thread dedicated to media complaints and B) because it likely happens elsewhere doesn't make it ok for it to happen in the military (which is how I think some of you, one of you?, feel. Or at least you're coming across that way)

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1011136]I know I'm biased because "the media" writes my checks but A) there's a whole other thread dedicated to media complaints and B) because it likely happens elsewhere doesn't make it ok for it to happen in the military (which is how I think some of you, one of you?, feel. Or at least you're coming across that way)[/quote]

Yeah agreed, it absolutely cannot be shrugged off. If anything, it's an indictment of human nature. If the US military is even an environment where sexual assault happens and is covered up, then it can happen in any walk of life. Look at India with the gang rapes. Look everywhere.

It comes back to men. Men have to decide whether they want to be the answer to this problem. It's in our hands. We have most of the political positions, and we have most of the physical strength that puts a lot of women at our mercy.

Here's an absolutely outstanding statement from Patrick Stewart on this very subject. Worth sitting through.

[YT]TqFaiVNuy1k[/YT]

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

Since the media is apparently....off the hook
Could the performance in these matters be a result of an incompetent, Commander in Chief?

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Hog1;1011145]Since the media is apparently....off the hook
Could the performance in these matters be a result of an incompetent, Commander in Chief?[/quote]



sexual assault ,this should be good ,explain?

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1011134][URL="http://m.guardiannews.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks"]Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media[/URL]


[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/us-govt-secretly-collecting-data-millions-verizon-users-013542225.html"]U.S. government secretly collecting data on millions of Verizon users: Report[/URL]



I've lost faith in any government agency we currently have.[/quote]You do realize the Governments of different country's have been trying to do this for years ....the US does it and now it's a sin.

Ever see the movie Good Moring Vietnam, what exactly do you think we were doing over there on the radio? From the times where social media was info on fliers ,to newspapers, to radio and on and on...

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Giantone;1011207]sexual assault ,this should be good ,explain?[/quote]
I'm like to think of myself as an......."Equal Opportunity Offender". I had not taken a shot at Hussein lately.
.....I'm weak

I'm in the military and it's a big issue; but by no means is this just a military issue. It's a problem in our society, it's just gets magnified because of the press on it. The people in the military consists of members of this country, so much bigger problem than just military.

Over the years there has been alot more training and programs for reporting it, so that could be the rise in them being reported.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

I think the point of the thread is to highlight the problem that those that are responsible for bringing the guilty to justice are turning a blind eye. It does happen in "the real world", but the comparable situation would be the police choosing to not investigate the assaults or the judge choosing to just dismiss the case. Not saying that doesn't happen out here int he real world, but if I'm a female I would take my chances in a civilian court of law than a military given the current news reported facts.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=Giantone;1011209]You do realize the Governments of different country's have been trying to do this for years ....the US does it and now it's a sin.

Ever see the movie Good Moring Vietnam, what exactly do you think we were doing over there on the radio? From the times where social media was info on fliers ,to newspapers, to radio and on and on...[/quote]


I don't live in another country. I live in one where the citizens of this country have a right to privacy, and one where the government is supposed to have a legal warrant to obtain the type of information they are currently obtaining.

As it is, they are shitting on the Constitution and using the guise as "protecting" us as the excuse. They aren't protecting us from anything, and they have no right to invade our privacy as such.


**** the Patriot Act and **** the rest of the cock suckers in Congress supporting this shit.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

Is this really news? I could have told you back when women started joining that if you mix young men and women into the military this would happen. For the most part we are talking college age kids and a little older.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/06/air-force-staffer-who-led-sexual-assault-prevention-unit-charged-with-groping/]Air Force staffer who led sexual assault prevention unit charged with groping | Fox News[/url]

This isn't a college frat guy.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=firstdown;1011278]Is this really news? I could have told you back when women started joining that if you mix young men and women into the military this would happen. For the most part we are talking college age kids and a little older.[/quote]

If a college age kid is considered old enough to be trusted to go to war then he should be considered old enough to know not to assault/abuse a woman

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

Sad that some seem to expect this sort of stuff from the military. I'd like to think we can do better. A lot better.

Re: Has anyone else completely lost faith in the military?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1011272]I don't live in another country. I live in one where the citizens of this country have a right to privacy, and one where the government is supposed to have a legal warrant to obtain the type of information they are currently obtaining.

As it is, they are shitting on the Constitution and using the guise as "protecting" us as the excuse. They aren't protecting us from anything, and they have no right to invade our privacy as such.


**** the Patriot Act and **** the rest of the cock suckers in Congress supporting this shit.[/quote]

When in doubt cry about the "Constitution" weather it has anything to do with the argument or not. People like you are screaming about right to privacy show me where it says you right to privacy can be the cause for innocent American citizens to be murdered by terrorist? Republicans and Democrats alike have a greed the program is (was) working, like it or not the American public does not have the "right" to know everything that goes on to protect them.