Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[url=http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-11-2013/good-news--you-re-not-paranoid---taking-sides]Good News! You're Not Paranoid - Taking Sides - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/11/13 - Video Clip | Comedy Central[/url]



[url=http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bunch-people-ready-troll-nsa-182700617.html]In Just A Few Hours, A Bunch Of People Plan To 'Troll The NSA' Online - Yahoo! Finance[/url]


:rofl:

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

HMMMMMMMMM
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIA1lQBqH1s]Maxine Waters Confirms "Big Brother" Database 2013 - YouTube[/ame]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=FRPLG;1011794]I actually agree with your basic sentiments...I was just poking the bear a little. BUT...your misinformed on this. They are not "Just collecting ALL information from citizens". Far from it. Aren't they collecting the meta-data? I sthat ok? Not sure either...but it isn't the full content.[/quote]

I understand that they are just collecting meta-data, not full content, from everyone. IMO Nonetheless my answer to your question is, "No. It is not ok to collect the meta-data." IMO such flies directly in the face of the spirit of the Bill of Rights, regardless of what the letter of legal precedent might say.

More galling for me is that it was both Bush and Obama who did this. The problem is with the Executive branch, not a particular President.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Lotus;1011806]The problem is with the Executive branch, not a particular President.[/quote]

No the problem is a citizenry not responsible enough to hold its leaders accountable for their actions. We get the government we deserve.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=FRPLG;1011811]No the problem is a citizenry not responsible enough to hold its leaders accountable for their actions. We get the government we deserve.[/quote]

Too lazy or stupid. Please refer to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy"]Idiocracy[/URL].

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=FRPLG;1011811]No the problem is a citizenry not responsible enough to hold its leaders accountable for their actions. We get the government we deserve.[/quote]

That's certainly fair enough. Sad but true.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;1011816]Too lazy or stupid. Please refer to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy"]Idiocracy[/URL].[/QUOTE]

Wow RR. We are agreeing all over the place. It MUST be the apocalypse.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

If Russia announced that they were tapping all incoming foreign national calls, we would be on them about civil liberties. If Germany announced that it was spying on all US nationals that entered the country, it would cause a huge political fallout. If our government spies on us, the person or organization that reveals it, is a traitor. Got it.

To go further, if Bush runs Gitmo it is horrendous and needs to be shutdown. If the president who promised to shut it within months of his 1st election keeps it open for 6 years, then it clearly serves the national interest, and we just need to trust our government.

The hypocrisy of the media/govt elite is so overwhelming, it is amazing to me that we are even as free as we are.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1011823]Wow RR. We are agreeing all over the place. It MUST be the apocalypse.[/quote]

Yeah, I know. I feel the kind of 'dirty' a shower can't help.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Giantone;1011868]I said I would take the word of the man that runs NSA over Edward Snowden , a traitor who's just looking for fame.[/quote]

No offense, but that much like sounds like the ramblings of these jerkoffs.


[url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/11/nsa-leak-obama-under-pressure-as-sen-dianne-feinstein-denounces-edward-snowdens-act-of-treason/]NSA leak: Obama under pressure as Sen. Dianne Feinstein denounces Edward Snowden’s ‘act of treason’ | The Raw Story[/url]




Let's recap what Biden had to say about a spying President.

[YT]LMfhC4CwUnM[/YT]


Since you think all this survelliance "saves lives", let me throw this information out there.

[url=http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/the-dirty-little-secret-about-nsa-spying-it-doesnt-work.html]The Dirty Little Secret About Mass Surveillance: It Doesn’t Keep Us Safe | Washington's Blog[/url]

[quote]Binney – a 32-year National Security Agency veteran – is the former head of the NSA’s global digital data gathering program, and a very highly-regarded cryptographer.

Binney told Daily Caller yesterday that the spying “dragnet” being carried out by the government is useless:[/quote]


Since you'll take the word of guys in the upper levels of the NSA, how about you take this guys word. The word of a guy that used to run the program.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1011899]Yeah, I know. I feel the kind of 'dirty' a shower can't help.[/quote]

Hmmmm, I think I have the solution: Please join me in a moment of prayer in hopes that, through grace, we may gain a deeper understanding of this problem.

See ... instant smugness restorer. Feel better now?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1011925]Hmmmm, I think I have the solution: Please join me in a moment of prayer in hopes that, through grace, we may gain a deeper understanding of this problem.

See ... instant smugness restorer. Feel better now?[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

4th amendment says government needs a damn good reason to be in your business, which the Patriot Act casually gutted. And Republicans just noticed.

and

I am appalled that the government is snooping on me - this must stop! On the other hand, when someone is watching it does make it hotter.

-Bill Maher

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

On the topic at hand, individual liberties are slowly but surely being strangled out in the name of security and tolerance. Soon enough, the only thing we will be "secure" from is the ability to voice unpopular or divisive thought while being subject to the Kafka'esque brutality of an overly bureaucratic government with the added random evil of the mob unrestrained by legal process. All in the name of public safety and tolerance.

With apologies to Rush, the day is coming when Congress shall pass a noble law and all will be kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011929]4th amendment says government needs a damn good reason to be in your business, which the [B]Patriot Act casually gutted. And Republicans just noticed.[/B]
and

I am appalled that the government is snooping on me - this must stop! On the other hand, when someone is watching it does make it hotter.

-Bill Maher[/quote]

Yup. It was a bad law that everyone initially voted for, which both sides renewed in the Senate and which Obama - using questionable Constitutional methods - extended despite the extension's failure to pass the House in 2011.

Lots of blame to go around on this one. As the Chief Executive, however, administration of the law is firmly in the purview of Obama. He has shown his ability in the past to forego enforcement of laws he found distasteful yet, here, he has endorsed the gutting of individual liberty.

Call Republicans hypocritical if you like. Bottom line is that this administration has expanded the attack on personal liberties well beyond anything Bush did.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Push back:
[URL="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/11/1215421/-Want-to-See-Your-NSA-or-FBI-File-Here-s-How#"]
Want to See Your NSA or FBI File? Here's How...[/URL]

[I]Have you ever Tweeted a politically subversive message, attended a protest, or signed an oppositional petition? If so, you may have a dedicated file on you kept by the FBI and/or the NSA.

With a simple Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, any U.S. citizen can obtain one's NSA or FBI file, if such a file exists.

It simply takes a few minutes to fill out the requisite forms and mail them to the appropriate address. An independent site – [URL="http://www.getmyfbifile"]www.getmyfbifile[/URL] – will, free of charge, generate the necessary forms for you already filled out.

Of course, you can also do this directly through the NSA or FBI if you are worried about providing personal information to an independent site.

While an appropriate level of cynicism may be warranted concerning the level of transparency one should expect from such a request – should your file be substantial – it is the law that your complete file be provided to you upon request.[/I]

[I]Demand that the law be followed, for it is your right as a citizen to know this information[/I]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNsePZj_Yks&feature=player_embedded]Jacob Appelbaum 29C3 Keynote: Not My Department - YouTube[/ame]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1011933]Yup. It was a bad law that everyone initially voted for, which both sides renewed in the Senate and which Obama - using questionable Constitutional methods - extended despite the extension's failure to pass the House in 2011.

Lots of blame to go around on this one. As the Chief Executive, however, administration of the law is firmly in the purview of Obama. He has shown his ability in the past to forego enforcement of laws he found distasteful yet, here, he has endorsed the gutting of individual liberty.

[B]Call Republicans hypocritical if you like. Bottom line is that this administration has expanded the attack on personal liberties well beyond anything Bush did.[/B][/quote]

If Bush were still in office, don't you think he'd be pushing the same agenda, or maybe worse?

I'm not in favor of what's going on, it's just funny to hear everyone up in arms about this now, where was all the fuss in 2001?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1011909]No offense, but that much like sounds like the ramblings of these jerkoffs.


[url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/11/nsa-leak-obama-under-pressure-as-sen-dianne-feinstein-denounces-edward-snowdens-act-of-treason/]NSA leak: Obama under pressure as Sen. Dianne Feinstein denounces Edward Snowden’s ‘act of treason’ | The Raw Story[/url]




Let's recap what Biden had to say about a spying President.

[YT]LMfhC4CwUnM[/YT]


Since you think all this survelliance "saves lives", let me throw this information out there.

[url=http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/the-dirty-little-secret-about-nsa-spying-it-doesnt-work.html]The Dirty Little Secret About Mass Surveillance: It Doesn’t Keep Us Safe | Washington's Blog[/url]




Since you'll take the word of guys in the upper levels of the NSA, how about you take this guys word. The word of a guy that used to run the program.[/quote]
Right...this is being (and has been for years now) extraordinarily politicized. The reports earlier in the week about Democrats being in favor of this surveillance under Obama while be staunchly against it under Bush prove so. Of course those reports often left out the part about the opposite being true too. Republicans loved it under Bush but not so much under Obama.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011939]If Bush were still in office, don't you think he'd be pushing the same agenda, or maybe worse?

I'm not in favor of what's going on, it's just funny to hear everyone up in arms about this now, where was all the fuss in 2001?[/quote]

This is a sexier story. A "heroic" whistleblower escapes the grasping claws of a tyrannical government so expose its nefarious misdoings. In the only thing being discussed was the potential for this type of stuff. Not many seemed to care.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011939]If Bush were still in office, don't you think he'd be pushing the same agenda, or maybe worse?

I'm not in favor of what's going on, it's just funny to hear everyone up in arms about this now, where was all the fuss in 2001?[/quote]

Where was it in 1979?

[url]https://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo12139.htm[/url]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011939]If Bush were still in office, don't you think he'd be pushing the same agenda, or maybe worse?

I'm not in favor of what's going on, it's just funny to hear everyone up in arms about this now, where was all the fuss in 2001?[/quote]

Just reference any of The One's pre-office statements on this kind of thing. It doesn't seem to be such a concern now.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1011943]Where was it in 1979?

[URL]https://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo12139.htm[/URL][/quote]

The use of the word 'Foreign' threw everyone off?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1011949]Just reference any of The One's pre-office statements on this kind of thing. It doesn't seem to be such a concern now.[/quote]

Welcome to politics. Where politicians say what they need to say to get elected, then reality hits when they get in office and they see what's really behind curtain #1.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

I for one consider Snowden a hero rather than traitor. He gave up a cushy life, a nice paycheck, and his security to call out our government for abrogating the Constitution. I think we all owe Snowden a debt of gratitude.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Lotus;1011954]I for one consider Snowden a hero rather than traitor. He gave up a cushy life, a nice paycheck, and his security to call out our government for abrogating the Constitution. I think we all owe Snowden a debt of gratitude.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1011962]I agree.[/quote]

Now you're agreeing with Lotus?!? I dunno Rat ... I am really, [I]really[/I] getting scared.

Let's have a prayer circle where we discuss the competing ethical considerations of Mr. Snowden's actions. You in?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Make it a drum circle and I may turn up.

I'm confident that even the most irascible of forum opponents can occasionally find common ground. It's making me question my mental state, I have to say. Bad enough I agree with you, heinous that Lotus and I are holding the same position. Next SS will appear rational or likeable.

We typically can't even agree on how to be fans of the same team.

Solar flare?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1011931]On the topic at hand, individual liberties are slowly but surely being strangled out in the name of security and tolerance. Soon enough, the only thing we will be "secure" from is the ability to voice unpopular or divisive thought while being subject to the Kafka'esque brutality of an overly bureaucratic government with the added random evil of the mob unrestrained by legal process. All in the name of public safety and tolerance.

With apologies to Rush, the day is coming when Congress shall pass a noble law and all will be kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw.[/quote]

Outstanding song reference JR.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1011962]I agree.[/quote]

So at what point would a computer judge/jury not find him guilty based on the emotional belief that giving up safety/security for country outweighs the purely analytical rule of law that says he told national secrets?

no need to respond, I Robot answered it already.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1011982]So at what point would a computer judge/jury not find him guilty based on the emotional belief that giving up safety/security for country outweighs the purely analytical rule of law that says he told national secrets?

no need to respond, I Robot answered it already.[/quote]

He's clearly guilty, with mitigating circumstances.

He'll be sentenced to be lightly killed.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011952]Welcome to politics. Where politicians say what they need to say to get elected, then reality hits when they get in office and they see what's really behind curtain #1.[/quote]I think it's more a case of
[IMG]http://img3.joyreactor.com/pics/post/auto-simpsons-kang-kodos-345953.jpeg[/IMG]
I think national-level politicians know exactly what positions they're going to take when they get in office. It's just a matter of what the public will let them get away with.

edit: And like you said, they say what they think they need to get into office. Even if they're going to do the same thing when they get in.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

When Vladimir Putin is defending America for its spying on its citizens, I think it's high time we start rethinking the direction our country is heading.

[url=http://rt.com/news/putin-rt-visit-broadcasting-center-530/]Putin on NSA leak: Government surveillance shouldn’t break law — RT News[/url]



:doh:

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

carnivore has existed forever. all these newfangled shiny things are just the same idea with upgraded tech. and the ability for unchecked drone kill-listing.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1011943]Where was it in 1979?

[URL]https://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo12139.htm[/URL][/quote]


SS you must have made that up , that could not have happen because Obama wasn't President and as this board will tell you he is personally responsible for everything wrong in this country ,......ever!!!:confused?:

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Really?? I thought it was all George Bush's fault.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1012004]Really?? I thought it was all George Bush's fault.[/quote]
actually it's the da** bureacrats and lawyers. :devil:

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

IMO partisan politics have no place in this issue. If we the people are to hold our government accountable, we must stick together. Partisanship simply plays into the hands of those in power.

Both Bush and Obama abused their Constitutional powers. They should be held accountable by all of us, regardless of our personal party affiliations.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1012004]Really?? I thought it was all George Bush's fault.[/quote]

Dems keep trying to float that nonsense. Its gotten funny.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Lotus;1012007]IMO partisan politics have no place in this issue. If we the people are to hold our government accountable, we must stick together. Partisanship simply plays into the hands of those in power.

Both Bush and Obama abused their Constitutional powers. They should be held accountable by all of us, regardless of our personal party affiliations.[/quote]

Problem is that a good 80% of the electorate doesn't give two craps about any of this. At least not enough to put done their remote and Twinkies and participate in a meaningful way. "Just tell me where to go every 4 years and I'll vote for the people that seem the coolest"