Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1035111]I strongly disagree with this. Even trained professionals have trouble hitting their targets in combat situations and they have routinely received multiple hours of gun training. Providing a teacher with 60 hours of training in identifying suspects, proper shooting technique under duress, and maintaining those skills would be counterproductive. While I assume you mean the teachers will be a deterrent and a shooting will be avoided, if a shooting occurs you will most likely have an intensely escalated situation. Instead trained professionals should be in place at all schools.[/quote]

Agreed.

[url=http://gothamist.com/2012/08/25/ray_kelly_9_empire_state_building_c.php]NYPD: 9 Civilians Near Empire State Building Were All Shot By Police: Gothamist[/url]

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035114]Agreed.

[URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/25/ray_kelly_9_empire_state_building_c.php"]NYPD: 9 Civilians Near Empire State Building Were All Shot By Police: Gothamist[/URL][/quote]

Then it goes on to say they were not actually shot.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters today that cops inadvertently wounded nine people yesterday after a disgruntled ex-employee [URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/24/five_shot_outside_empire_state_buil.php#photo-5"][COLOR=#0066cc]killed his former boss near the Empire State Building[/COLOR][/URL]. [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]Kelly said[/COLOR][/URL] the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds." Altogether, the two officers who confronted [URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/25/esb_shooter_jeffrey_johnson_describ.php"][COLOR=#0066cc]Jeffrey Johnson[/COLOR][/URL] fired 16 rounds—one officer shot nine while another one shot seven.

So what your saying if a shooter came into the school and started shooting people you would rather be in the room with the unarmed teacher?

Part of the deterrent to arming teachers is the same as CCW with civilians, criminals no longer know who the soft target is. Currently they are all too aware. Like in the Ft. Hood and similar situations where the shooter knew they would have no opposition.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035127]Then it goes on to say they were not actually shot.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters today that cops inadvertently wounded nine people yesterday after a disgruntled ex-employee [URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/24/five_shot_outside_empire_state_buil.php#photo-5"][COLOR=#0066cc]killed his former boss near the Empire State Building[/COLOR][/URL]. [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]Kelly said[/COLOR][/URL] the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds." Altogether, the two officers who confronted [URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/25/esb_shooter_jeffrey_johnson_describ.php"][COLOR=#0066cc]Jeffrey Johnson[/COLOR][/URL] fired 16 rounds—one officer shot nine while another one shot seven.

So what your saying if a shooter came into the school and started shooting people you would rather be in the room with the unarmed teacher?[/quote]

Right, flower pots. That's believable. It was later confirmed by other sources that people were hit by bullets. But does it really matter what they were hit by? Bottom line is people were injured when caught in the crossfire of trained professionals. How are lesser trained individuals supposed to hold up in a similar situation?

My point is armed or not, someone intent on shooting up a public place isn't going to be deterred either way.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035129]Right, flower pots. That's believable. It was later confirmed by other sources that people were hit by bullets. But does it really matter what they were hit by? Bottom line is people were injured when caught in the crossfire of trained professionals. How are lesser trained individuals supposed to hold up in a similar situation?

My point is armed or not, someone intent on shooting up a public place isn't going to be deterred either way.[/quote]


So you post the link and now you say its not correct.LOL

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035131]So you post the link and now you say its not correct.LOL[/quote]

You're missing the point as usual.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Ok answer this. So if you were at school while one of these shooting was going on would you want to be huddled down with the teacher with or without the gun?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035156]Ok answer this. So if you were at school while one of these shooting was going on would you want to be huddled down with the teacher with or without the gun?[/quote]

How about there is no shooter in the first place?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035009]

It would be nice if the teachers could just teach but that's not todays world.[/quote]



Bingo , you hit it on the head .Teaching sucks ,why would any child want to be come a teacher ?All parents want from teachers is to be more educated then they are(and pay them nothing) and to babysit their children ,then the state lets the children do whatever they want steal , rape or just fight with the teachers. I agree teaching isn't as glamorous as ...ohhhh lets say Call of Duty ....which glamorizes GUNS .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=donofriose;1035174]How about there is no shooter in the first place?[/quote]


"Gun Nuts" can't understand this concept .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

I won't start a new thread . I fear for my grandchildren because of the gun lobbyist and the NRA and others .


[url=http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20131023/US--Deputies.Shoot.13-Year-Old/]Calif. sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old | US National Headlines | Comcast[/url]

Calif. sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old
SANTA ROSA, Calif. (AP) — Northern California sheriff's deputies have shot and killed a 13-year-old boy after repeatedly telling him to drop what turned out to be a replica assault rifle, sheriff's officials and family members said.
Two Sonoma County deputies on patrol saw the boy walking with what appeared to be a high-powered weapon Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, sheriff's Lt. Dennis O'Leary said.
The replica gun resembled an AK-47 with a black magazine cartridge and brown butt, according to a photograph released by the sheriff's office. Deputies would only learn after the shooting that it was a replica, according to O'Leary. It was not clear whether it could fire projectiles such as pellets or BBs.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=donofriose;1035174]How about there is no shooter in the first place?[/quote]
[quote=Giantone;1035182]"Gun Nuts" can't understand this concept .[/quote]

Classic hippie dream scenario. You may as well say "Dark colors fuel depression, so we'll get rid of anything below a certain hue".

Hippies are incapable of thinking outside their puppy, bunny and kitten laden world.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Giantone;1035186]I won't start a new thread . I fear for my grandchildren because of the gun lobbyist and the NRA and others .


[URL="http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20131023/US--Deputies.Shoot.13-Year-Old/"]Calif. sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old | US National Headlines | Comcast[/URL]

Calif. sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old
SANTA ROSA, Calif. (AP) — Northern California sheriff's deputies have shot and killed a 13-year-old boy after repeatedly telling him to drop what turned out to be a replica assault rifle, sheriff's officials and family members said.
Two Sonoma County deputies on patrol saw the boy walking with what appeared to be a high-powered weapon Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, sheriff's Lt. Dennis O'Leary said.
The replica gun resembled an AK-47 with a black magazine cartridge and brown butt, according to a photograph released by the sheriff's office. Deputies would only learn after the shooting that it was a replica, according to O'Leary. It was not clear whether it could fire projectiles such as pellets or BBs.[/quote]

I fear for humanity when people with your demonstrable lack of intellect are allowed to breed.

You post the most insipid BS. Find a Giants forum or a knitting/crochet circle.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[cut - pointless]

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035187]Classic hippie dream scenario. You may as well say "Dark colors fuel depression, so we'll get rid of anything below a certain hue".

Hippies are incapable of thinking outside their puppy, bunny and kitten laden world.[/quote]

I never said get rid of guns. I actually have no problem with people owning guns.

What I have a problem with is people that act like adding guns solves the problem. The problem is the shooter. Adding a gun does not change anything.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035188]I fear for humanity when people with your demonstrable lack of intellect are allowed to breed.

You post the most insipid BS. Find a Giants forum or a knitting/crochet circle.[/quote]


Yes , guns are the answer in your world .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035187]Classic hippie dream scenario. You may as well say "Dark colors fuel depression, so we'll get rid of anything below a certain hue".

Hippies are incapable of thinking outside their puppy, bunny and kitten laden world.[/quote]


This is a response from a grown up to a gun thread about more children being shot and killed , amazing .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035127]Then it goes on to say they were not actually shot.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters today that cops inadvertently wounded nine people yesterday after a disgruntled ex-employee [URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/24/five_shot_outside_empire_state_buil.php#photo-5"][COLOR=#0066cc]killed his former boss near the Empire State Building[/COLOR][/URL]. [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]Kelly said[/COLOR][/URL] the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds." Altogether, the two officers who confronted [URL="http://gothamist.com/2012/08/25/esb_shooter_jeffrey_johnson_describ.php"][COLOR=#0066cc]Jeffrey Johnson[/COLOR][/URL] fired 16 rounds—one officer shot nine while another one shot seven.

[B]So what your saying if a shooter came into the school and started shooting people you would rather be in the room with the unarmed teacher[/B]?[/quote]

I can honestly say I do not want to be armed in my classroom or have my child's teacher armed in their classroom. If the NYC hit ratio under duress is 18% and LAPD is 29%. What would it be for untrained civillians? I don't understand why people are so adement about being against trained professionals in the schools. You wouldn't ask your mechanic to bake you a cake, or your librarian to put up dry wall, why would you trust someone not adept at performing a task to perform it? I am not anti gun I just want them to be in appropriate hands.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Giantone;1035181]Bingo , you hit it on the head .Teaching sucks ,why would any child want to be come a teacher ?[B]All parents[/B] want from teachers is to be more educated then they are(and pay them nothing) and to babysit their children ,then the state lets the children do whatever they want steal , rape or just fight with the teachers. I agree teaching isn't as glamorous as ...ohhhh lets say Call of Duty ....which glamorizes GUNS .[/quote]

Sorry all parents do not feel that way about teachers. Its the left that has faught to teach children they have rights and Hillary Cliton lead the way. When I was in school we had the right to sit down and shut up.

BTW What's the Call of Duty? A show or game?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Giantone;1035182]"Gun Nuts" can't understand this concept .[/quote]

Funny you call me a gun nut and I don't even own a gun.

[QUOTE=Giantone;1035227]This is a response from a grown up to a gun thread about more children being shot and killed , amazing .[/QUOTE]

It was a direct response to your Utopian drivel. Don't try to bend my words, hippie.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Nice that we can have an intelligent debate.

:doh:

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

I dont think teachers should have guns in the classroom, I dont think people should be visibly armed outside/patroling the halls either. But I would have no problem with a 1 security/resource officer certified, conceled permit to have access to a hidden firearm at a school. No problem at all with that. School budgets are tight, but if your serious about child safety and guns, then that area should have no problem with being taxed to pay for it.

But, teachers, administrators have no effing business having a gun in their desk. none

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Chico23231;1035273]I dont think teachers should have guns in the classroom, I dont think people should be visibly armed outside/patroling the halls either. But I would have no problem with a 1 security/resource officer certified, conceled permit to have access to a hidden firearm at a school. No problem at all with that. School budgets are tight, but if your serious about child safety and guns, then that area should have no problem with being taxed to pay for it.

But, teachers, administrators have no effing business having a gun in their desk. none[/quote]

The SROs in our county are Baltimore County Police Officers. They wear their unis and their guns. Personally, I think if the constituents in a district feel funding for a SRO is too expensive they do not have their priorities right. You also bring a valid reason why many police officers are against armed teachers. First it would require all police to know who and be able to properly ID the teachers who are legally carrying so when they enter a school they don't confuse the armed teacher with a suspect. Second you would have to disclose the undercover police officers in a school to the admin and those teachers so that if an incident does occur a teacher doesn't assume they are seeing a student with a gun in the hallway.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1035280]The SROs in our county are Baltimore County Police Officers. They wear their unis and their guns. Personally, I think if the constituents in a district feel funding for a SRO is too expensive they do not have their priorities right. You also bring a valid reason why many police officers are against armed teachers. First it would require all police to know who and be able to properly ID the teachers who are legally carrying so when they enter a school they don't confuse the armed teacher with a suspect. Second you would have to disclose the undercover police officers in a school to the admin and those teachers so that if an incident does occur a teacher doesn't assume they are seeing a student with a gun in the hallway.[/quote]

The problem with having an officer in the schools is the cost and these things are so random. It would be like putting a cop in every neighborhood. I'm not saying arm all teachers I'm talking a few that may elect to carry. That's only if the local schools and PTA's decide it is best for the school. People have to remember most cops go their intire career never firing their guns and the same would be the case for these teachers. Its not like they are going Rambo though out the school all day long. They just have a gun for if and that's a big if its ever needed.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035087]No MP's on base? No guns in those buildings at all?[/quote]

Do you know the size of a base. Three people died in Fort Hood trying to fight him off with chairs. Its also thought he chose his location based off security of the lack of security in this paticular building. I beleive the first MP that arrived was also shot but I think she lived.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035294]Do you know the size of a base. Three people died in Fort Hood trying to fight him off with chairs. Its also thought he chose his location based off security of the lack of security in this paticular building. I beleive the first MP that arrived was also shot but I think she lived.[/quote]

So bottom line there were guns on the base.

Thanks.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Chico23231;1035273]I dont think teachers should have guns in the classroom, I dont think people should be visibly armed outside/patroling the halls either. But I would have no problem with a 1 security/resource officer certified, conceled permit to have access to a hidden firearm at a school. No problem at all with that. School budgets are tight, but if your serious about child safety and guns, then that area should have no problem with being taxed to pay for it.

But, teachers, administrators have no effing business having a gun in their desk. none[/quote]

This makes much more sense than arming teachers.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035294]Do you know the size of a base. Three people died in Fort Hood trying to fight him off with chairs. Its also thought he chose his location based off security of the lack of security in this paticular building. I beleive the first MP that arrived was also shot but I think she lived.[/quote]

Wasn't your argument that gunmen attack "soft" targets? There are a lot softer targets than a military base where there are, by your argument, only a few guns.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Chico23231;1035273]I dont think teachers should have guns in the classroom, I dont think people should be visibly armed outside/patroling the halls either. But I would have no problem with a 1 security/resource officer certified, conceled permit to have access to a hidden firearm at a school. No problem at all with that. School budgets are tight, but if your serious about child safety and guns, then that area should have no problem with being taxed to pay for it.

But, teachers, administrators have no effing business having a gun in their desk. none[/quote]

Well you wouldn't have a teacher with a gun sitting in her desk. There is no need to pay a cerdified security guard when you could have someone that's allready in the school doing the same thing. It does not have to be a teacher it could be another school employee that gets certified.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035303]This makes much more sense than arming teachers.[/quote]

Teachers and administrator have a tough enough job as is, and now burden them with the responsibility of a weapon and the security of their school?

Something's wrong with that picture, people need to step back and take in the whole issue.

Its great that some teacher volunteer say "hey i can do it," but those are not the teachers im worried about once the school makes a decision like this. Its the teacher there after who have no experience with a weapon, the teacher whose name is drawn out the hat to take on that responsibility, and the teacher who simply is not responsible enough to secure a weapon. These are the teachers where we hear about the next horror story.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035297]So bottom line there were guns on the base.

Thanks.[/quote]

There was also air craft and fighter jets. In the Fort Hood case the guy went after people in the service and went past any civilians. In DC it was the police and swat teams that came in to kill the shooter.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Chico23231;1035313]Teachers and administrator have a tough enough job as is, and now burden them with the responsibility of a weapon and the security of their school?

Something's wrong with that picture, people need to step back and take in the whole issue.

Its great that some teacher volunteer say "hey i can do it," but those are not the teachers im worried about once the school makes a decision like this. Its the teacher there after who have no experience with a weapon, the teacher whose name is drawn out the hat to take on that responsibility, and the teacher who simply is not responsible enough to secure a weapon. These are the teachers where we hear about the next horror story.[/quote]

Yeah I mean who else should be armed using this logic? Pilots? Movie theater ushers? F it let's just have everyone strapped. Wild wild west bitches.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1035326]Yeah I mean who else should be armed using this logic? Pilots? Movie theater ushers? F it let's just have everyone strapped. Wild wild west bitches.[/QUOTE]

Hilarious! Reminds me of that time someone mentioned having an intelligent debut.

Serious question: How would you go about ridding the world of weapons?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035326]Yeah I mean who else should be armed using this logic? Pilots? Movie theater ushers? F it let's just have everyone strapped. Wild wild west bitches.[/quote]

Well in this context of school and when your dealing with children, you'd think people would look harder and think longer about this than the average gun nut who just says arm everybody. But really from the gun lobby, its not surprising.

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1035330]Well in this context of school and when your dealing with children, you'd think people would look harder and think longer about this than the average gun nut who just says arm everybody. But really from the gun lobby, its not surprising.[/QUOTE]

Please provide evidence of anyone suggesting we arm everyone or retract your petulant post and admit that you, like the majority of anti-gun hippies, lack any rational position.

KTHANXBAI

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035326]Yeah I mean who else should be armed using this logic? Pilots? Movie theater ushers? F it let's just have everyone strapped. Wild wild west bitches.[/quote]

To a point pilots are armed but with detection equipment and procedures to keep guns off planes in the first place.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035328]Hilarious! Reminds me of that time someone mentioned having an intelligent debut.

Serious question: How would you go about ridding the world of weapons?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

I'm obviously joking around. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to see that... I hope. By the way along with intelligent debate I should have added respectful. KTHANXBAI.

Non serious answer to your question, more weapons, duh.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035288]The problem with having an officer in the schools is the cost and these things are so random. It would be like putting a cop in every neighborhood. I'm not saying arm all teachers I'm talking a few that may elect to carry. That's only if the local schools and PTA's decide it is best for the school. People have to remember most cops go their intire career never firing their guns and the same would be the case for these teachers. Its not like they are going Rambo though out the school all day long. They just have a gun for if and that's a big if its ever needed.[/quote]

You are correct in that it would cost more to the taxpayers, and that would be something the local society or society at large would have to decide whether it is justified. I worked at jewelry store during grad school and we sold certified Rolex watches. In order to be authorized to sell Rolexes they require you to have an armed guard at the facility at all times. IMO it is a touch ironic. I would be curious as I know they have looked into teachers carrying in Texas, how they are handling the liability insurance issues. I imagine it is very different from police unions. I don't belong to a union, but I imagine the dues would be higher.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

I would guess liability insurance for gun toting teachers would be pretty costly for schools.