Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

I was not happy with the hiring of haslett and the switch to the 3-4,hiring a coach who coached a 4-3 defense but had "familiarity"with 3-4 from his days coaching in pittsburgh 97-99.

And to agree with Smootsmack,the way he handled Haynesworth I thought was handled very poorly,and now with davis.

The Mcnabb trade I was excited about,I thought he had something left in the tank.I'm still not sure whos fault that was that mcnabb didnt play well here.I dont think they played to Mcnabbs strengths but Mcnabb didnt do his part either,so I'll give Shan a pass on this one.

I guess there might have been a few people on here at the time that thought we were giving up too much to get RG3 but I was excited as hell about it as most of us were.I dont think that was a mistake .

To by far the biggest mistake was the way he handled Griff in the seattle game.I dont care if Griff wanted to stay in or not,you just gave up the farm to get him yet you put his whole career in danger by leaving him in there.A BLIND MAN COULD HAVE SEEN IT WAS TIME TO PULL GRIFFIN.
To me thats unforgivable,it ended our season horribly and it screwed up this season.
If griffin was healthy this yr,we probably arent leading the division,but we are def not 3-8 and a laughingstock
If griff doesnt tear up his knee were not talking about whether it was a mistake to give up so much for him

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1044185]This is what I can't get with in terms of logic. Exactly who else was he supposed to get? Don't forget, his first year in the uncapped year, there was a lock down on Free Agents so he was limited, and year 2 was the lock out.

So who exactly should have have gotten?[/quote]If you honestly think that he was that devoid of options, which isn't reality, he should have kept McNabb. Just releasing McNabb and making no other QB moves is not a solution. Matt Hasselbeck was available, just to name an unexciting veteran.

The 2011 draft was one of the better drafts for QBs. The 2010 draft was not, but there were non-first rounders who could have helped this teams situation, although that would have meant no roster spot for John Beck, so you can see the solution there.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1044158]To be honest, how much value did any of these guys have to begin with? Fred was a free agent this off-season and garnered really little to no interest. Should he have just played Fred even though Reed outplayed him, just so he could get his value up?

In regards to Haynesworthless, how much value could we really garner from him? Exactly what was he supposed to do with him? We heard what Cooley had to say about this clown. We saw him giving up on plays and laying down during the Philly MNF massacre.[/quote]

Well specifically on Haynesworth there was an opportunity as late as draft day 2011 to get a 2nd round pick for him. Not straight up, but it would have involved a later round swapping of picks.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1044202]If you honestly think that he was that devoid of options, which isn't reality, he should have kept McNabb. Just releasing McNabb and making no other QB moves is not a solution. Matt Hasselbeck was available, just to name an unexciting veteran.[/quote]

Ok, and tell me what he ended up signing for with the Titans and then tell me would you have signed him. Still you haven't given any options other than...."it was bad". Let's hear some options, and look at the salary ramifications on those people you would have signed. Come on GT, put some effort into it. :)

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1044199]It wasn't the cost for any other franchise in history. Just this one.[/quote]

The problem is that you have to take risks. The teams that don't have a franchise QB are often mired in mediocrity in a revolving door of QBs and high to mid round first draft picks. The day of the trade I was anxious and apprehensive, what I saw last year gave me hope toward a bright future and I can't say for certainty our future is any worse or better for the trade but I am willing to take risks. For me the biggest mistake is the McNabb trade that essentially cost us a year of rebuilding.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1044204]Well specifically on Haynesworth there was an opportunity as late as draft day 2011 to get a 2nd round pick for him. Not straight up, but it would have involved a later round swapping of picks.[/quote]


should have

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1044205]Ok, and tell me what he ended up signing for with the Titans and then tell me would you have signed him. Still you haven't given any options other than...."it was bad". Let's hear some options, and look at the salary ramifications on those people you would have signed. Come on GT, put some effort into it. :)[/quote]$7 mil/yr. Would I have signed him? As opposed to what the Redskins did? Of course. However, iirc, he wasn't even on top of my FA rankings that year. Better options were available.

Here is the drafted QB class of 2011:

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2011&year_max=2011&type=&round_min=1&round_max=30&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=QB&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all]Draft Finder Query Results - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Newton would have cost a Griffin-like package to get, but after actually giving up those picks for Griffin, you can't even say he was unobtainable.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

Until MS goes I'm just going to be Bleh about this team even next yr if he's still here

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1044199]It wasn't the cost for any other franchise in history. Just this one.[/quote]

Or anyone who wanted to move up. Lil shocked now the trade is an issue. I don't see acquire rg3 as the issue, but the handling of the injury, coaching and his protection is more the problem

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1044206]The problem is that you have to take risks. The teams that don't have a franchise QB are often mired in mediocrity in a revolving door of QBs and high to mid round first draft picks. The day of the trade I was anxious and apprehensive, what I saw last year gave me hope toward a bright future and I can't say for certainty our future is any worse or better for the trade but I am willing to take risks. For me the biggest mistake is the McNabb trade that essentially cost us a year of rebuilding.[/quote]No one is saying don't take risks. Just don't get to a point where trading more for a QB than anyone ever has is your only option. And if you do reach that point, it's time for someone else to have a shot.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

That's easy, hiring Shanazorn to begin with. I didn't like the hiring then and he's proven everything I was concerned about back then. Denver sent him on his way due to failing with results and not bringing in proper personnel. Sounds familiar. This year will make one playoff win in his last fifteen seasons coaching. Disgraceful.

I like how people are throwing the 18 million in cap space out there, as if every good free agent is going to flock to this mess of a franchise. As if there won't be more attractive options out there. Or, let's say they have about 6 or 7 real quality guys total on both sides of the ball. Everything else is garbage. Will 18 million be enough to buy 14 or so good quality players? Nope. Will it eliminate the lack of preparedness, the lack of adjustments, poor clock management, and everything else fundamentally wrong with this team that is the coach's fault?

Nope.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

People talking like rg3 is done. Amazing

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044210]Or anyone who wanted to move up. Lil shocked now the trade is an issue. I don't see acquire rg3 as the issue, but the handling of the injury, coaching and his protection is more the problem[/quote]RG3 might prove to be worth it long term, but one thing we can conclude now is that he was overvalued on draft day. Foles was the same passer in college (although needed to be protected by a scheme re: lack of athleticism), and went in the third round. Wilson of course also went in the third round.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner's_curse]Winner's curse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

It's going to be on someone else to salvage RG3 as an elite player (which he's still young enough to become), which means that the process behind the trade was more poor than the trade itself.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

Luck was overvalued on draft day as well, but that doesn't so much matter because the Colts had the first pick and were locked in on him from day one of the process.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044214]People talking like rg3 is done. Amazing[/quote]

It is amazing. The team is damned if they do and damned if they dont. If they pass on RG3 and stick with Rex or McNabb then the fans scream the organization doesnt want to win. So they trade for him he playes great as a rookie and unfortunately has a devastating knee injury, misses the offseason, struggles in his 2nd year (that he probably shouldnt have even played in because of the injury) and now the fans are screaming taking him was a huge mistake because he cant play. I guess that's what fans do.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1044212]No one is saying don't take risks. Just don't get to a point where trading more for a QB than anyone ever has is your only option. And if you do reach that point, it's time for someone else to have a shot.[/quote]

So by staying put and drafting _______, we would still be in the QB carousel most likely, but we would have had two more first round picks to make a correct hit. Am I close to what you are thinking, or am I reading it the wrong way?

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1044219]So by staying put and drafting _______, we would still be in the QB carousel most likely, but we would have had two more first round picks to make a correct hit. Am I close to what you are thinking, or am I reading it the wrong way?[/quote]

You are correct and these same fans would be saying that we cant win because we dont have a franchise QB and wont do what it takes to get one.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044214]People talking like rg3 is done. Amazing[/quote]


I believe in Griffin but i will say dude looks like shit this yr, He's had a few good games but damn has he had some Geno Smith type moments.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1044219]So by staying put and drafting _______, we would still be in the QB carousel most likely, but we would have had two more first round picks to make a correct hit. Am I close to what you are thinking, or am I reading it the wrong way?[/quote]Yeah, that's pretty much it.

I'm not saying "don't draft a quarterback, ever." I'm saying don't make a trade for a guy that pins him squarely as the savior of a franchise, not develop him, and then get very unsettled when he starts bringing his own visions for how the team should be run into the locker room. Very frustrating.

The biggest problem with the RG3 trade wasn't the cost, it was the reasons it was being made, i.e. had to win ASAP. It almost darn near worked. If this team was 6-5 instead of 3-8, the trade is a success to date. But it was bad process from the start.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Mattyk;1044196][B]I've never seen the 3-4 as the problem, just the players and coach running it.[/B]

The legendary top 10 4-3 we had was old and lacked playmakers and needed an overhaul anyway.

As far as the trade that everyone is knocking now don't forget that the cap penalty came afterwards. Gotta think that trade doesn't happen if they knew the cap hit was coming.[/quote]

It still lacks playmakers. Especially on the front 7. After 4 years we still don't have the most important piece...a true NT. Inexcusable.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=irish;1044218]It is amazing. The team is damned if they do and damned if they dont. If they pass on RG3 and stick with Rex or McNabb then the fans scream the organization doesnt want to win. So they trade for him he playes great as a rookie and unfortunately has a devastating knee injury, misses the offseason, struggles in his 2nd year (that he probably shouldnt have even played in because of the injury) and now the fans are screaming taking him was a huge mistake because he cant play. I guess that's what fans do.[/quote]

Disagree. The 2012 draft had other QB's that were just as good, if not better ( for the pro game) than RG3. They had to know that paying that steep a price was just too risky. I didn't see RG3 as a John Elway type of prospect.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1044225]It still lacks playmakers. Especially on the front 7. After 4 years we still don't have the most important piece...a true NT. Inexcusable.[/quote]

Cofield is the problem? Really?

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1044172]The McNabb move was pretty inexcusable. Going into the second season with Grossman on top of the depth chart and Ryan Torain at RB was pretty much the death knell on the Shanahan era.

Mike was a dead man walking prior to the cap penalty. The RG3 trade was a blatant attempt to liquidate future assets to put a winning product on the field immediately, because after two full seasons there was zero foundation.[/quote]

This is absolute truth.

Really there's too many major fuck ups by "Shanahan the GM" to pick a worst though. Blowing up the defense he inherited and installing the worst defense in the league. Terrible management of the players he inherited. Lousy drafting and too many busts. And then you have all the fuck up by "Shanahan the coach." Ugh...just too many things to remember and list.

But it's the CULTURE he developed that stands out as the worst dynamic and the one that has potential to haunt this team for years. Because Mike has been such a terrible leader/mentor you see the players lose respect for everything associated with the Redskins. It's like a poison, and as the poison spreads through the system you see these kids give up. It's just now becoming totally apparent on the field, but it's been at work for a long time. And we have to remember they're young, likely immature kids. They don't know how to separate the franchise from this egomaniac asshole running the team. That's why I think it's critical to get Shanahan out of the building ASAP. The poison is spreading and has the potential to ruin more and more players on the roster.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1044227]Disagree. The 2012 draft had other QB's that were just as good, if not better ( for the pro game) than RG3. They had to know that paying that steep a price was just too risky. I didn't see RG3 as a John Elway type of prospect.[/quote]

Its easy to say that in 2013. My guess is you can tell me what numbers look good for last week's powerball drawing too.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Mattyk;1044228]Cofield is the problem? Really?[/quote]

He's been solid. But what's his true position? DT in a 4-3. They've asked Rak and Kerrigan to play coverage at times. The 3-4 has been a failure.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=irish;1044232]Its easy to say that in 2013. My guess is you can tell me what numbers look good for last week's powerball drawing too.[/quote]

Actually I said when he was drafted.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=The Goat;1044230]This is absolute truth.

Really there's too many major fuck ups by "Shanahan the GM" to pick a worst though. Blowing up the defense he inherited and installing the worst defense in the league. Terrible management of the players he inherited. Lousy drafting and too many busts. And then you have all the fuck up by "Shanahan the coach." Ugh...just too many things to remember and list.

[B][B][I][U]But it's the CULTURE he developed that stands out as the worst dynamic and the one that has potential to haunt this team for years[/U][/I][/B]. Because Mike has been such a terrible leader/mentor you see the players lose respect for everything associated with the Redskins. It's like a poison, and as the poison spreads through the system you see these kids give up. It's just now becoming totally apparent on the field, but it's been at work for a long time. And we have to remember they're young, likely immature kids. They don't know how to separate the franchise from this egomaniac asshole running the team. That's why I think it's critical to get Shanahan out of the building ASAP. The poison is spreading and has the potential to ruin more and more players on the roster[/B].[/quote]

If thats the case, how could he lead a team to the playoffs after a 3-6 start? If the culture was so bad, this couldnt have happened last year. I dont think its the locker room or the culture of the organization. I think thats pretty solid actually.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044236]If thats the case, how could he lead a team to the playoffs after a 3-6 start? If the culture was so bad, this couldnt have happened last year. I dont think its the locker room or the culture of the organization. I think thats pretty solid actually.[/quote]

You're making all kinds of assumptions. First, that it was Shanahan who led the team. I saw RG on offense and London on defense leading the team. That (player) leadership counterbalanced the negative from Mike, Kyle and Haslett.

But honestly, and it's what I hear from almost all football fans outside this little world, knee-gate shattered any trust and respect for Shanahan. It was obvious to me the players quit on Shanahan after that i.e. obvious from the opening game this season.

You can argue otherwise, but then you have to explain why this team has been so listless all season. And I think this season in particular presents some good comparisons for reference. Schiano, another guy who's made tough calls but retained his players respect, has his guys playing their asses off. That's how I gauge respect btw, how players fight for their teammates, coach and franchise on the field, winning or losing. Likewise I think it's the very best gauge of team culture.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

I don't understand why people equate things like scheduling and order as "good" culture?? That's asinine. Just because Mike has the IQ to build an itinerary for everyone and organize practices etc. doesn't indicate anything about the culture for God's sake. Culture is what you see on the field. Do the players fight hard no matter the score and no matter the circumstances. Our players don't fight regardless of the score and circumstances. And it translates to reality: having the lowest percentage of time winning during gameplay. Enough to say we are the worst team in pro football? Maybe, but certainly enough to say we have the worst culture in pro football.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

you talk about me making all types of assumptions....nevermind

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

Bottom line is Jim Zorn was a laughing stock and ran out of town but yet he was only 8 games under .500 after 2 years, after 4 MS is 11 games under .500.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044242]you talk about me making all types of assumptions....nevermind[/quote]

Hilarious isn't it

Don't bother

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044242]you talk about me making all types of assumptions....nevermind[/quote]

He's a goofball. He's had maybe one good post in the last 15 months here. People here are afraid to say he sucks, and so on

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

One group who isn't fighting for anyone is the Oline. They are down right atrocious.

Polumbus probably shouldn't be in the league. Chester is a backup at best. Monty was good last year but I don't know what has happened to him and the same can be said for Kory L. With those problems, when Trent had a bad game it is I testified because he is suppose to be the one great one.

Do we really have the lightest Oline in the league?

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1044227]Disagree. The 2012 draft had other QB's that were just as good, if not better ( for the pro game) than RG3. They had to know that paying that steep a price was just too risky. I didn't see RG3 as a John Elway type of prospect.[/quote]

We'll have a better idea where RGIII's career is headed when he is fully recovered.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1044233]He's been solid. But what's his true position? DT in a 4-3. They've asked Rak and Kerrigan to play coverage at times. The 3-4 has been a failure.[/quote]

Yes our D was better when we ran the 4-3, but Rak was a LB in our 4-3 D.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

"There's a scapegoat in every situation, and who's the scapegoat? Robert Griffin," McNabb said.

More from McNabb, who only played one season in Washington, on the "Shanahan way":

"This is something that I’ve seen, obviously, when I was in Washington and I’ve been seeing it since I left, at what point as a head coach are you gonna say, ‘I need to get the guys prepared. It’s my fault. We didn’t play well, I’ll make sure that we’re ready tomorrow,'" McNabb said. "This is something that’s been a problem, even since when I was there, when things go wrong.

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

The shanahan era is still ongoing. Can't say what is the worst b/c each year has been bad

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

I honestly don't see us winning another game, maybe and its a huge maybe the Giants

Re: Worst Mistake of the Shanahan Era
 

[quote=Chico23231;1044137]Shanny f*cked up the rotation by not sitting RG3 after halftime in the Seattle game.[/quote]

Agreed but id move the timeline up to when rg3 re-aggravated his knee the play before throwing the td pass. Not taking rg3 out when it was obvious he had ligament damage has put us back in unfathomable ways.

I also would say not keeping rg3 out until after the bye and letting him use the first 4 weeks to tune up.