Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

KC needs to be a little more careful when letting it rip. He's a bit too aggressive sometimes where RG is too careful at times.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049478]KC needs to be a little more careful when letting it rip. He's a bit too aggressive sometimes where RG is too careful at times.[/quote]

Russell said the coaches think as much. There are pros & cons to KC's play. It leads to some turnover issues (con) but also leads to big plays and lots of yards (pro).

The problem with RG being overly cautious this year is that he's getting all the turnover problems with none of the big-play upside.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Southpaw;1049476]Personally, I see a lot of Rex in Cousins. He does operate the offense efficiently, but he has turned the ball over at an alarmingly high rate. The fact that people seem to be overlooking that, simply because he racked up a lot of yards is a symptom of confirmation bias. He's got nine total turnovers(8 INTs, 1 Fumble) in 12 quarters of football.

Until he tightens up that part of his game, I will be refering to him as Rex, Jr.[/quote]

Lotus made the exact same observation on this site sometime last year. Apparently, it is an attribute he displayed in college too.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

Yeah and a big reason we lost is due to all the turnovers. That simply can't be overlooked no matter how many yards he throws for.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

So, I missed the game this weekend. Drove to SC and back on Sunday. Heard a little right at the NC/VA border on the radio but only the score at which point it was 17-14 Atlanta, then right before I lost the station I heard the score was 20-17 Skins. I picked back up right after Morris's fumble to the end of the game.

I'd heard the announcers say something about Kyle Shanahan and the new gossip about him talking about leaving and how he's a prima dona around the office. etc. etc.

Heard how MS is likely to remain cause his contract is solid and thats from a lawyer. Otherwise Snyder pony's up 13 mill. < I personally doubt that happens. I think he stays.

So my prediction: MS is our HC next year, KS quits after the season to help facilitate...Kubiak being brought in to help his dad plus they think alike offensively. Haslett I'm unsure of but I hope he's fired and perhaps Lovie is offered the job with the intention he takes over after next year when DS does fire MS.

No to further my prediction: RG3 I think was either DS idea or KS's. RG3 is not MS's QB. So I can see this off season both RG3 and KS working hard and studying film. However I'm betting KS surpasses RG3 and probably gets the nod by MS to start. Remember this is MS's last year and if he's going to get fired might as well piss off the owner by not playing RG3 and play the guy who seems to have better pocket presence and gets through his progressions.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049478]KC needs to be a little more careful when letting it rip. He's a bit too aggressive sometimes where RG is too careful at times.[/quote]

Sometimes you have to unleash the dragon!

[IMG]http://beardownuk.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/rex.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;1049343]Seriously now, are we that delusional and in denial about the state of our favorite team that we will believe a team will trade their first round pick in which they can get a Winston or Mariotta, or even that kid from Northern Illinois, to get a Skins backup?[/quote]

I haven't heard any mention of Cousins being traded for a first round pick. I am not sure if that is speculation on your part or what you think the intent of the FO for Cousins is.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;1049489]... Heard how[B] MS is likely to remain cause his contract is solid and thats from a lawyer.[/B] Otherwise Snyder pony's up 13 mill. < I personally doubt that happens. I think he stays.

So my prediction: MS is our HC next year, KS quits after the season to help facilitate...Kubiak being brought in to help his dad plus they think alike offensively. Haslett I'm unsure of but I hope he's fired and perhaps Lovie is offered the job with the intention he takes over after next year when DS does fire MS.

No to further my prediction: [B]RG3 I think was either DS idea or KS's. RG3 is not MS's QB. [/B]So I can see this off season both RG3 and KS working hard and studying film. However I'm betting KS surpasses RG3 and probably gets the nod by MS to start. Remember this is MS's last year and if he's going to get fired might as well piss off the owner by not playing RG3 and play the guy who seems to have better pocket presence and gets through his progressions.[/QUOTE]


^^ So, you acknowledge Shanahan has an ironclad contract which prohibits firing for anything related to coaching/player decisions (i.e. Shanny cannot be fired for benching Snyder's "favorite" QB). Yet, you dispute that Shanahan had final say on drafting RGIII. Interesting.

Clearly, in your world, A=B and B=C but A does not equal C.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

I personally never felt the warm fuzzy from RG3. I despised RG3 cause a co worker gushed over him so much it made me vomit. I like Cousins at this point. But being honest both have the potential to be really good. Meaning RG3 is going to need to be in a offense that utilized his mobility a lot especially if he never develops the ability to get past his 2nd read. If RG3 can pick up all the intangibles; reading defenses, pump faking, staying in the pocket when he needs to, going through all his progressions then he definitely will be one of the best QB's to ever play the game. But if he can't .... he'll just be another decent QB that had tons of mobility and the forever talk of mobile QB's never winning a SB will continue.

I think right now Cousins is the better QB for MS's offense. Not the Spread/Read Option, but what MS usually runs. I think in the short term Cousins is the guy any HC would want and need.

Just reading some of what people posted during the game made me want to comment:

1- "QB not the problem the playbook is." I think it kinda is (bye KS) but also think it's the QB not getting through his progressions and adjusting his shitty OL for protection.

2- "Kyle leaving after the season." I think he and dad are not on the same page, but he might leave to save his dads job. Kubiak takes over for KS and this team shines next year.... perhaps with Cousins.

3- "MS will be fired", "MS staying cause of the cost to let him go." I think he stays.

4- "Cousins is good but we need to trade him for a top pick since we don't have a #1 pick this year." I don't think so. If Cousins runs MS's offense better I'd almost say trade RG3 to a team that uses the Spread/Read Option like the Eagles need him bad. We have $36 mill to play with. We should be able to find someone in FA that is considered a #1 pick to off set that. Maybe a WR, or RT, or MLB or something.

At this point I'd prefer to keep both RG3 and Cousins and not trade anyone. Work with both over the off season and see which one is the better QB for MS's system next season and play them. If RG3 made strides and it's him then awesome play him. However I'm worried RG3 doesn't make that HUGE jump over Cousins before next year and this team dumps off the better QB for MS's system. Then we have another losing or mediocre year.

I also hate the label "Franchise QB." To me no one knows and to label someone now is crazy. Look at Jason Campbell, I kept seeing how he was our "Franchise QB" and how we needed keep him and develop him so on and so forth. JC turned out to be nothing but a good back up. Maybe cause of all the hits he took or maybe cause he couldn't get through his progressions like RG3 can't, but to label him now just because we want one so bad and want this team to solely back one QB for 10yrs is ludicrous if RG3 continues to have trouble developing.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049488]Yeah and a big reason we lost is due to all the turnovers. That simply can't be overlooked no matter how many yards he throws for.[/quote]

True, but this was only his second game. Not his second year in the game. To be honest I still think a lot of this might be MS's system. Grossman had a ton of INT's and we blamed Grossman. Probably he deserved it. Some thought Beck was going to change all that but didn't. I know they are not the best QB's. McNabb came in and kinda did no better. I know McNabb is a has been.

I just think any QB in MS's system is going to be required to throw the ball to a specific spot prior to the WR breaking on the ball and unless the WR runs a perfect route it will look like the QB threw the ball too early or to the wrong spot. Also I think it gives defenses a good chance for an INT if they know the play being run and know where and when the ball is supposed to go based off the play formation. Either we except the system has flaws and work around that or can the HC and system. < the latter might be in order since most fans are done with MS now.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1049493]^^ So, you acknowledge Shanahan has an ironclad contract which prohibits firing for anything related to coaching/player decisions (i.e. Shanny cannot be fired for benching Snyder's "favorite" QB). Yet, you dispute that Shanahan had final say on drafting RGIII. Interesting.

Clearly, in your world, A=B and B=C but A does not equal C.[/quote]

I'm not acknowledging anything. I'm not a lawyer. I'm saying the conversation on the radio was "Shanahan's contract is iron clad and a lawyer for the team has looked at it and said we are stuck with him."

RG3- I'm saying I bet the owner, again as in past yrs, wanted RG3 and said draft him at #1. I think MS drafted Cousins 2 rounds later cause RG3 was not his top choice of QB. I think MS/KS made lemons out of lemonade with RG3 and changed their scheme to more of a Baylor scheme to benefit RG3 and give this team the best chance to win. Why would they do that? so their #1 pick did not look like a bust. Now that RG3 was injured and didn't have the off season to develop like most QB's MS/KS probably decided to try and make the scheme more of a pocket friendly scheme so RG3 would not have to run as much most likely cause he couldn't out run defenders. Big failure on two fronts... RG3 is not a pocket passer and he couldn't out run DE's.

Look don't believe me, what I have been saying all season that the offense does not look like what we saw last season? Funny how people were commenting during yesterdays game that this looks more like MS's offense with Cousins under center. Hmmm. weird right.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

Clearly Cousins is better right now for the pro game. He hadn't played in a year and we had more big plays than we'd had all year. The ball was spread around. There was an Aldrick Robinson sighting. RG3 has potential, but will he reach it? Who knows? I think that's why you keep both guys and let it play out. Eventually the best guy will win the job. That's exactly what happened w/ Gus and Heath, Aikman and Walsh.

As for Cousins turnovers, he's a bit of a gun slinger. Name me one top guy that isn't? That leads to more turnovers. The game was called like we had Drew Brees in there. That shows me that the coaches have a tremendous amount of confidence in a guy making only his 2nd start. But give me the guy that doesn't play scared. You can't win in today's pass happy league not making big plays in the pass game. We finally got that yesterday. Let this thing play out and keep both guys.

BTW...loved how involved RG3 was into the game yesterday, helping Cousins out. I loved seeing that. Class act by RG3. Jay Scheorder would have never done that. lol.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/QUOTE]

Yeah he has,played good I agree

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

Garcon deserves some love too. 96 catches on the year, seems likely he'll break Monk's record.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1049521]Garcon deserves some love too. 96 catches on the year, seems likely he'll break Monk's record.[/QUOTE]

I think they said he did yesterday with 93 or maybe that was his personal best

Also he and A Brown are the only guys with 5 rec in every gm

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1049522]I think they said he did yesterday with 93 or maybe that was his personal best[/quote]

Team record is Monk's 106

Garcon already beat his own best, his previous high was 70

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1049523]Team record is Monk's 106

Garcon already beat his own best, his previous high was 70[/QUOTE]

O ok yeah I bet he beats that

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/quote]

He has played better against the run, too. Orakpo and Kerrigan are just fine, IMO. I think we need to complement them with an athletic lineman who can push the pocket.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/quote]

Agreed, aside from the coaching situation, this should be the #1 priority. He seems like he 'gets it' now and is making an impact on games the way he was expected to. I'm not a big fan of franchising players because I think it causes more issues than it usually solves but we cannot let him out of DC this offseason.

This also would be a chance organizationally to prove that they value their own players as much as the shiny new objects from other teams in free agency.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049521]Garcon deserves some love too. 96 catches on the year, seems likely he'll break Monk's record.[/quote]

Garcon was a great signing by the Redskins because they recognized that he was about to become one of the top receivers in the NFL. They paid for his upside rather than for what he had already done.

Many teams sign FA's who have accomplished alot but are on the downside of their careers, thus paying for what they have done for their previous team versus what they will do for their current team.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/quote]

I'm not sold on BO yet. He's having his best season is a garbage year and a contract year. I'm afraid he's setting himself up as another player set to bank rob the Skins.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/quote]

In my opinion, it is a HUGE mistake to let Brian Orakpo walk. Whoever the DC is next year, they need guys to rebuild the defense around. Kerrigan and Orakpo together can be a monster combination.

And in your post about Garcon - he is truly a #1 in my opinion. I certainly hope he wants to stay in Washington as long as possible, because this franchise has not had a receiver like him in a long, long time. Probably not since Gary Clark/Art Monk.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=irish;1049534]I'm not sold on BO yet. He's having his best season is a garbage year and a contract year. I'm afraid he's setting himself up as another player set to bank rob the Skins.[/quote]

One thing you can't question the guy on is his effort/work ethic. He's always been all in and gives 100%, not just this year.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049400]I believe his contract goes up significantly after this next season, making him considerably less attractive to trade. [B]I would trade him this off-season, especially if there's a new HC. And then just draft another young QB[/B][/quote]

If there's a new HC, as is expected, there really isn't any upside to keeping Cousins.

If KC plays well over the next 2 games, his trade value will never be higher. All it takes is one GM or coach to fall in love with him for us to get a mid 2nd and maybe even a conditional 2015 pick for him. I don't think he'll ever get to a 1st round value because of some of his decision making/risk taking. Wherever Kyle ends up immediately becomes the top option for Cousins.

Not to mention if he plays well, the 'noise' surrounding the team and the QB position would be overwhelming considering everything else going on. Best situation for the organization is a quiet, focused offseason at that position, sign a vet that fits the system and draft a rookie in the 5th or so to develop as the long term backup.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=SBXVII;1049501]I'm saying the conversation on the radio was "Shanahan's contract is iron clad and a lawyer for the team has looked at it and said we are stuck with him." [/quote]

Surely, Shanahan can be fired for poor performance based on his W/L record. I doubt that Skins are "stuck with him" but they may have to pay him $7M for not coaching if they fire him.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049536]One thing you can't question the guy on is his effort/work ethic. He's always been all in and gives 100%, not just this year.[/quote]

In the rare moments he's healthy he is all in, unfortunately I'm not convinced he can stay healthy.

Compared to the rest of the D he does look good but that's not saying much. I think if he was a free agent with another team and the Skins wanted him there wouldnt be much support for that move on this site.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

I know this has little to do with yesterday's game, but I can't help but address it. If anyone thinks we'd get more than a fourth round pick for Cousins, you're delusional. Why would teams suddenly want to give up 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cousins now when no team in the league drafter him until fourth round to begin with? And don't tell me his on-field performance has increased his value. He's thrown 118 passes. No one is going to look at that and think it's substantial enough to raise his value, even if his performances were good. But they weren't. His TD:INT ratio is 1:1. His completion percentage is a pedestrian 62%. His QB rating is league average. I'm not saying that he's looked poor, I'm just saying that he hasn't shown anything over 118 passing attempts that would make GMs around the league think that he's suddenly worth two draft rounds more than he was. Especially since his contract goes up every year and they'd be paying him more now than a they would be a second round drafted QB. Maybe a desperate team with a late third round pick would make a trade for Cousins, but that's the best case scenario.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1049539]Surely, Shanahan can be fired for poor performance based on his W/L record. I doubt that Skins are "stuck with him" but they may have to pay him $7M for not coaching if they fire him.[/quote]

He can be fired. It's will DS be happy paying that sum? We all know MS is owed 7 mill next year but it was reported or I heard today that to get rid of this coaching staff will cost DS around 13 mill.

Then he has to buy another whole coaching staff at what costs? Thats the issue. Will DS do that? I'm thinking not. Others here seem to think he will.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=irish;1049542]In the rare moments he's healthy he is all in, unfortunately I'm not convinced he can stay healthy.

Compared to the rest of the D he does look good but that's not saying much. I think if he was a free agent with another team and the Skins wanted him there wouldnt be much support for that move on this site.[/quote]

Not sure where this myth about him not being able to stay healthy has come from, you're not the only one to say it.

He missed 12 games last year, outside of that he's only missed 1 other game.

He started all 16 in 2009 and 2011. In 2010 he missed 1 game. This year he's started all 14.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Coff;1049545]I know this has little to do with yesterday's game, but I can't help but address it. [B]If anyone thinks we'd get more than a fourth round pick for Cousins, you're delusional.[/B] Why would teams suddenly want to give up 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cousins now when no team in the league drafter him until fourth round to begin with? And don't tell me his on-field performance has increased his value. He's thrown 118 passes. No one is going to look at that and think it's substantial enough to raise his value, even if his performances were good. But they weren't. His TD:INT ratio is 1:1. His completion percentage is a pedestrian 62%. His QB rating is league average. I'm not saying that he's looked poor, I'm just saying that he hasn't shown anything over 118 passing attempts that would make GMs around the league think that he's suddenly worth two draft rounds more than he was. Especially since his contract goes up every year and they'd be paying him more now than a they would be a second round drafted QB. Maybe a desperate team with a late third round pick would make a trade for Cousins, but that's the best case scenario.[/quote]

Color us delusion then. Someone last week (Keim maybe?) polled 6 GMs around the league and the word seemed to be a 2nd rounder seemed appropriate.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Coff;1049545]I know this has little to do with yesterday's game, but I can't help but address it. If anyone thinks we'd get more than a fourth round pick for Cousins, you're delusional. Why would teams suddenly want to give up 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cousins now when no team in the league drafter him until fourth round to begin with? And don't tell me his on-field performance has increased his value. He's thrown 118 passes. No one is going to look at that and think it's substantial enough to raise his value, even if his performances were good. But they weren't. His TD:INT ratio is 1:1. His completion percentage is a pedestrian 62%. His QB rating is league average. I'm not saying that he's looked poor, I'm just saying that he hasn't shown anything over 118 passing attempts that would make GMs around the league think that he's suddenly worth two draft rounds more than he was. Especially since his contract goes up every year and they'd be paying him more now than a they would be a second round drafted QB. Maybe a desperate team with a late third round pick would make a trade for Cousins, but that's the best case scenario.[/quote]

Teams are desperate for a QB, look around the league and when you see Case Kenum, Cassel, Flynn (started for multiple teams), the kid from duke started for the Bills, Freeman, the performance of Geno Smith, etc. Teams are giving anybody a chance to come under center and lead a team. I think a 2nd round pick isnt a crazy risk for any team who believes Cousins can lead a team.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049547]Not sure where this myth about him not being able to stay healthy has come from, you're not the only one to say it.

He missed 12 games last year, outside of that he's only missed 1 other game.

He started all 16 in 2009 and 2011. In 2010 he missed 1 game. This year he's started all 14.[/quote]

The peck muscle he re-injured in 2012 was injured in 2011 so while its true he played he wasnt 100%.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=irish;1049534]I'm not sold on BO yet. He's having his best season is a garbage year and a contract year. I'm afraid he's setting himself up as another player set to bank rob the Skins.[/quote]

I never sensed he wasnt the type to give 100% on the field and towards his teamates. Always seen him a high character dude. It might be tough to keep him because teams are taking notice.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=irish;1049550]The peck muscle he re-injured in 2012 was injured in 2011 so while its true he played he wasnt 100%.[/quote]

He was injured in week 17 of 2011.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/quote]

One of the announcers said yesterday that Orakpo said he was excited to test free agency so I'm not sure he will be in a skins uniform come next year. His timing to start playing better seems almost like he is giving more effort then in the start of the season.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049515]Getting away from the tiring QB talk for a sec, is there any doubt about Orakpo anymore? Get a deal done with this guy asap. 7.5 sacks in the last 6 games. He's definitely having his best season.[/quote]

Rak has not been the elite player that we hoped to get.

That said, he certainly is "good enough" and guys like him don't grow on trees. So I hope that we lock him up with a reasonable (not huge) contract.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

I was impressed by the character of our team against the Falcons. Given everything else (and the KC performance), there was every reason to think that they would not show up and/or fold immediately. While it would have been better to get a W, it was nice to see us being competitive.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1049555]Rak has not been the elite player that we hoped to get.

That said, he certainly is "good enough" and guys like him don't grow on trees. So I hope that we lock him up with a reasonable (not huge) contract.[/quote]

I agree, he's not the elite player he was expected to be. I'm not against re-signing him but not for elite player $.

Re: Redskins vs. Falcons Post-Game Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1049549]Teams are desperate for a QB, look around the league and when you see Case Kenum, Cassel, Flynn (started for multiple teams), the kid from duke started for the Bills, Freeman, the performance of Geno Smith, etc. Teams are giving anybody a chance to come under center and lead a team. I think a 2nd round pick isnt a crazy risk for any team who believes Cousins can lead a team.[/quote]

Flynn is a great example because he had one helluva game and cashed it into a monster paycheck.