Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=jamf;1050353]Your ring argument is ridiculous. Are you going to say Trent Dilfer is better than Marino too?

If you want a ring comparison, Look at what Deion did for SF and Dallas. If he stays in SF, Dallas never gets past them and they get a couple more rings.
Don't tell me being able to single Jerry Rice or Michael Irvin is not a big deal.


I don't know where he was drafted but he is having an all pro year on the #1 defense. I bet you can name more of seattles DB than dlinemen.



I do agree that you need a complete team to win but I think Cornerback is one of the hardest positions to draft and only 2 maybe 3 guys in the game right now could be considered shutdown corners. You have to make due without them because there just aren't many to go around.[/quote]


Sherman was a 5th rounder. What he was saying is that you do not have to have Deion Sander to have a dominant defense. Hell you don't even have to have an elite player. As long as you have 11 guys out there doing their jobs and playing together, you will be at worst fine.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Mattyk;1050371]He would be shooting for the stars in that case, he's not coming anywhere near a $100M deal. It's more reasonable to look at what the other 3-4 OLBs in the league make and go from there.

He's definitely going to be looking for a deal that tops Krugers from last year. Kruger got 5 yrs $40M last year with $20 guaranteed. I don't think anyone could argue he's not a better player than Kruger. So how much more does he get? I'd guess somewhere between Kruger's deal and Tamba Hali's (5 yrs $60M with $35M guaranteed).

Out of the top sack guys this year, only 3 OLBs have more than Orakpo.[/quote]

And I don't think that 5 years at 50-60 million is out of his range at all.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1050374]And I don't think that 5 years at 50-60 million is out of his range at all.[/quote]

Definitely not

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=donofriose;1050292]People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.[/quote]I've said for years that consistent winners build from the inside/out, putting together linemen that win the line of scrimmage. We have neglected the O-line for years with the exception of drafting Trent #4 overall.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1050404]I've said for years that consistent winners build from the inside/out, putting together linemen that win the line of scrimmage. We have neglected the O-line for years with the exception of drafting Trent #4 overall.[/quote]

I couldn't agree with you more. Two words: The Hogs.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Pack: The entire coaching staff except for BACK: Bobby Turner and Sean McVay

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

I'm just gonna list the only ones to bring back...

Chris Baker- he is a stud, needs to get himself in better shape. I can't believe some people are missing this.

Orakpo- only if the price isn't too high.

Hall- same as Orakpo.

Reilly- number 2 backer, one less position to fill.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

I often wonder what we would get for Morris. I know people will curse me for the notion, but I feel like having a RB who can catch out of the backfield and run would benefit us more in today's NFL. Seems like teams know we are passing a lot of the times because Helu would come in.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Bucket;1051477]I often wonder what we would get for Morris. I know people will curse me for the notion, but I feel like having a RB who can catch out of the backfield and run would benefit us more in today's NFL. Seems like teams know we are passing a lot of the times because Helu would come in.[/quote]

Everybody knows Vareen is going to catch passes out of the backfield when he's in the game, and he still racks up the yards. Our problem is piss poor coaching/scheme/playcalling, not the players.

Morris and Helu should be on th field at the same time to keep the defense guessing, but instead we see WRs in the backfield with a RB. Just asinine.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=The Goat;1051480]Everybody knows Vareen is going to catch passes out of the backfield when he's in the game, and he still racks up the yards. Our problem is piss poor coaching/scheme/playcalling, not the players.

Morris and Helu should be on th field at the same time to keep the defense guessing, but instead we see WRs in the backfield with a RB. Just asinine.[/quote]

That's true.. I also wonder why Morris doesn't take more screens. We always complain about the O line but it never seems that we call a game to protect them. Slowing down the pass rush with some RB screens etc. You would think with Morris vision and cutting ability he would be amazing in the screen game.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

let fred davis walk, he'll talk some sour grapes, get a 1 year contract somewhere else, have a career/contract year, get a big contract and disapear the next season all just like Carlos Rodgers.

This team needs to stop being the destination to get paid for past performances.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Yesterday's game confirmed for me that Moss has to go.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=irish;1051920]Yesterday's game confirmed for me that Moss has to go.[/quote]

I say let someone beat Moss in camp, at this stage in his career putting him at punt returner is down right disrespectful. I would've dropped that 3rd down passon on purpose too. That's a big eff you Kyle. Moss "the cowboy killer" has earned his Redskins due respect not Shannhan. By the way get rid that bum Cousins, he sux.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Bucket;1051477]I often wonder what we would get for Morris. I know people will curse me for the notion, but I feel like having a RB who can catch out of the backfield and run would benefit us more in today's NFL. Seems like teams know we are passing a lot of the times because Helu would come in.[/quote]

How about coaching the guy up in that area? See again... to me that's coaching. I don't take Morris off the field on a 3rd and 5 or less. Instead Helu comes in and you know it's a pass. I don't think we saw one play with Morris on a designed screen.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1051929]How about coaching the guy up in that area? See again... to me that's coaching. I don't take Morris off the field on a 3rd and 5 or less. Instead Helu comes in and you know it's a pass. I don't think we saw one play with Morris on a designed screen.[/quote]

totally agree

Just thought you might find this article interesting...


Kirk Cousins did prove One thing, He's still the backup
[URL] http://riggosrag.com/2013/12/30/kirk-cousins-did-prove-one-thing-hes-still-the-backup/ [/URL]

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1051928]I say let someone beat Moss in camp, at this stage in his career putting him at punt returner is down right disrespectful. I would've dropped that 3rd down passon on purpose too. That's a big eff you Kyle. Moss "the cowboy killer" has earned his Redskins due respect not Shannhan. By the way get rid that bum Cousins, he sux.[/quote]

Let him go so that he could maybe catch on with another team. He's not part of the solution here in DC.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=irish;1051934]Let him go so that he could maybe catch on with another team. He's not part of the solution here in DC.[/quote]

ok, I will wash your car for free if he makes it on another roster.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1051928]I say let someon beat Moss in camp, at this stage in his career putting him at punt returner is down right disrespectful. I would've dropped that 3rd down passon on purpose too. That a big eff you Kyle. Moss "the cowboy killer" has earned his Redskins due respect not Shannhan. By he way get rid that bum Cousins he sux.[/quote]

1. Moss [U]volunteered[/U] to return punts because he is a team player.

2. Moss did not drop a pass on purpose.

3. Let me take a wild guess on one another point: you don't like Kirk Cousins, do you? I'm starting to get that impression after reading your fifty thousand posts about it.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=44 70 chip;1051734]let fred davis walk, he'll talk some sour grapes, get a 1 year contract somewhere else, have a career/contract year, get a big contract and disapear the next season all just like Carlos Rodgers.

This team needs to stop being the destination to get paid for past performances.[/quote]

I say sign Fred to a one year deal Jordan Reed is hurt.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1051937]1. Moss [U]volunteered[/U] to return punts because he is a team player.

2. Moss did not drop a pass on purpose.

3. Let me take a wild guess on one another point: you don't like Kirk Cousins, do you? I'm starting to get that impression after reading your fifty thousand posts about it.[/quote]

Cousins is an example of bad judgement by Shannahan. He might as well have kept Rex for what Cousins can do. Or better yet, if he thought Cousins was a legit starter he should have kept the draft picks and made Cousins his starter. But he didn't.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1051938]I say sign Fred to a one year deal Jordan Reed is hurt.[/quote]

Why would you bring back a guy who tells the media he sleeps in team meetings? He needs to go, better options out there. When I look at our TE situation, Im more concerned that Pauleson was completely ineffective as a blocker and got dominanted time and time again.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1051956]Why would you bring back a guy who tells the media he sleeps in team meetings? He needs to go, better options out there. When I look at our TE situation, Im more concerned that Pauleson was completely ineffective as a blocker and got dominanted time and time again.[/quote]

I agree that Paulsen didn't play as well this year as he did last year. You're right about his blocking: it was often poor.

Part of the reason our QB's took such a beating when they dropped back was due to poor protection by RB's and TE's. It wasn't all on the OL. Kinda makes you miss the great pass protection of Clinton Portis, doesn't it?

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1051956]Why would you bring back a guy who tells the media he sleeps in team meetings? He needs to go, better options out there. When I look at our TE situation, Im more concerned that Pauleson was completely ineffective as a blocker and got dominanted time and time again.[/quote]

Well you are right, it does not matter now because we got free agency and the draft coming up. Hope Reed is okay.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1051961]I agree that Paulsen didn't play as well this year as he did last year. You're right about his blocking: it was often poor.

Part of the reason our QB's took such a beating when they dropped back was due to poor protection by RB's and TE's. It wasn't all on the OL. Kinda makes you miss the great pass protection of Clinton Portis, doesn't it?[/quote]

I agree on pass protection.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Orakpo of course needs to be back but DEANGELO HALL stays IMO. He stays. Still fast barely lost a step at this point hes entering his best veteran years the next couple years wed be stupid not to bring him back.

EJ Biggers I do like as well but Wilson.. later dude.. Doughty.. you were cool but later dude.. and without a doubt Josh Morgan just needs to go. Lets wipe these guys out too the Aldricks who cant run routes. I see potential in a lot of players like we all do who just don't pan out. Im going to fail to mention a lot of people right now.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Orakpo - honestly, it depends on his contract. I think he is a good player, but not worth an elite contract. If he will take a reasonable contract bring him back.

Rob Jackson - I want him back, Orakpo or not.

D Hall - worth bringing back depending on the contract

Fred Davis - I'm torn here. I'm really disappointed with his attitude, but he has talent, and could be productive possibly. If he wil take vet min, I might give him a shot, but anything more than that isn't worth it really. TE talent can be found pretty easily.

EDIT: I change my mind, let him go. We can find equal TE talent from someone with a better attitude and that wants to prove themselves.

Moss - I might keep him for vet min. but he would really have to beat out younger competition, and I'm not sure he can at this point.

Not sure about Perry Reilly - I have heard he can call defenses, if so, he is worth keeping around for some consistency, if not we can probably find better talent.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

is Merriweather under contract

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1053663]is Merriweather under contract[/quote]

Yeah but the Redskins can, and probably will, void it this offseason

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1051956]Why would you bring back a guy who tells the media he sleeps in team meetings? He needs to go, better options out there. When I look at our TE situation, Im more concerned that Pauleson was completely ineffective as a blocker and got dominanted time and time again.[/quote]

Given the Shanny debacle, his knack for alienating players, I would give Davis another shot. Ryan Matthews is a good example. Evidently didn't show a lot of heart and commitment prior to this year. McCoy and Whisenhunt come in and Matthews runs like horse on steroids.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Qbs-RG3 and Cousins( unless we get a real trade offer)
RBs-Morris,Helu,Royster and Young
TE-Jordan Reed( no need to keep Davis as at his best he is a lesser Reed)
WRs-Garcon and Hankerson
OT-Williams
OG-LeRibius( one more year to see if he can at least be a solid backup)
Cs-Montgomery and Lichtenstieger (one starts other is backup)

DL-Cofield,Jenkins,Neild, and Baker (these guys could fit 3-4 or 4-3)
LB-Rak,Kerrigan, and Riley(Rak and kerrigan could be looked at as DEs)
CBs-Amerson and Crawford (both guys have flashed and are young)
S-Thomas (I had high hopes before he was injured Maybe at least good depth

K-Forbath

If not listed above that means tell' em to pack. I am so glad we will actually have cap space this year.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=delusional optimist;1053679]Qbs-RG3 and Cousins( unless we get a real trade offer)
RBs-Morris,Helu,Royster and Young
TE-Jordan Reed( no need to keep Davis as at his best he is a lesser Reed)
WRs-Garcon and Hankerson
OT-Williams
OG-LeRibius( one more year to see if he can at least be a solid backup)
Cs-Montgomery and Lichtenstieger (one starts other is backup)

DL-Cofield,Jenkins,Neild, and Baker (these guys could fit 3-4 or 4-3)
LB-Rak,Kerrigan, and Riley(Rak and kerrigan could be looked at as DEs)
CBs-Amerson and Crawford (both guys have flashed and are young)
S-Thomas (I had high hopes before he was injured Maybe at least good depth

K-Forbath

If not listed above that means tell' em to pack. I am so glad we will actually have cap space this year.[/quote]

i like both cbs but we cannot get away with them at this point. i didnt see what wed like to call consistency at all in fact neither impressed haslett enough to even start over wilson. need more help there or bring hall back. in fact.. keep hall snd bring in someone light with upside in. its a passing league too many beasts at wr in the league.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Skins4L;1053682]i like both cbs but we cannot get away with them at this point. i didnt see what wed like to call consistency at all in fact neither impressed haslett enough to even start over wilson. need more help there or bring hall back. in fact.. keep hall snd bring in someone light with upside in. its a passing league too many beasts at wr in the league.[/quote]

I'm not saying either of those guys are legit starters but of the guys we have those are the only 2 i think will be back.If Hall is willing to return for around the minimum then that might be good but i think we will bring in multiple FA DBs (Byrd ,Talib ect.) and i'm not sure Hall wouldn't become a problem if he wasn't a starter.

I like Hall because he likes being a Redskin but the fact remains he gives up a ton of catches. Seems to lose interest sometimes.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=delusional optimist;1053679]Qbs-RG3 and Cousins( unless we get a real trade offer)
RBs-Morris,Helu,Royster and Young
TE-Jordan Reed( no need to keep Davis as at his best he is a lesser Reed)
WRs-Garcon and Hankerson
OT-Williams
OG-LeRibius( one more year to see if he can at least be a solid backup)
Cs-Montgomery and Lichtenstieger (one starts other is backup)

DL-Cofield,Jenkins,Neild, and Baker (these guys could fit 3-4 or 4-3)
LB-Rak,Kerrigan, and Riley(Rak and kerrigan could be looked at as DEs)
CBs-Amerson and Crawford (both guys have flashed and are young)
S-Thomas (I had high hopes before he was injured Maybe at least good depth

K-Forbath

If not listed above that means tell' em to pack. I am so glad we will actually have cap space this year.[/quote]

So you'd be looking at 19 additions to the team via the draft or free agency? That doesn't seem realistic to me at all, expecially given the relative lack of draft picks. I don't think we have the luxury of discarding quite so many players, and there are a few others (e.g., Robinson, Merriweather, Gumbs) that we will probably need to stick with or give more time.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=delusional optimist;1053679]Qbs-RG3 and Cousins( unless we get a real trade offer)
RBs-Morris,Helu,Royster and Young
TE-Jordan Reed( no need to keep Davis as at his best he is a lesser Reed)
WRs-Garcon and Hankerson
OT-Williams
OG-LeRibius( one more year to see if he can at least be a solid backup)
Cs-Montgomery and Lichtenstieger (one starts other is backup)

DL-Cofield,Jenkins,Neild, and Baker (these guys could fit 3-4 or 4-3)
LB-Rak,Kerrigan, and Riley(Rak and kerrigan could be looked at as DEs)
CBs-Amerson and Crawford (both guys have flashed and are young)
S-Thomas (I had high hopes before he was injured Maybe at least good depth

K-Forbath

If not listed above that means tell' em to pack. I am so glad we will actually have cap space this year.[/quote]

I'm understanding the delusional part of your screen name now...

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=calia;1053755]So you'd be looking at 19 additions to the team via the draft or free agency? That doesn't seem realistic to me at all, expecially given the relative lack of draft picks. I don't think we have the luxury of discarding quite so many players, and there are a few others (e.g., Robinson, Merriweather, Gumbs) that we will probably need to stick with or give more time.[/quote]

For each player not on the list you save cap space that can be spent on another player. I did forget to add Robinson and Sundberg to the list. And a guy like Gumbs you bring to camp for a nothing contract and let him compete for a spot .If he earns a spot thats gravy but you don't count on it.You do the same with several guys that are cheap and already on board and again hope for the best but be realistic

Merriweather is not worth keeping. I wouldn't be surprised if last year was his last year in the NFL. He's a penalty machine.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1053759]I'm understanding the delusional part of your screen name now...[/quote]

Which part is delusional? The idea that these guys will be back or the idea that guys not on the list won't?....Or was that just a clever barb that you put little thought into?

Nah i get it. Thats what these forums are for. To be clear though let me explain my position. As a long time Skins fan i have watched us hang on to guys who were just good enough to hold on to a roster spot and keep us from searching for upgrades for far to long.

Here is and example. You have Ladell Betts. He's an OK backup to Portis so you kinda take RB off the shopping list so to speak.Then you go into the draft and select Devin Thomas and Malcomb Kelly (both currently out of the NFL) over Jammal Charles who is one of the top RBs in the NFL.

Example 2- Kedric Golston has been hanging around this team for at least 4 yrs to long. He doesn't break the bank but he does cost more than say a rookie FA...but does he produce more than what you may be able to get from a RFA. We have seen his upside and know it has come and gone but who knows what kind of upside comes with a young guy.

Point being there is no point in keeping guys around that have proven they are just good enough to maintain a spot on a team that loses. If you are not helping the team win what are you doing ? It would have been nice if we would have been developing a young DE over the past 3 yrs that might be something by now as apposed to dragging around Golston for 3.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Because you've let too many guys go. You can't expect to fill 20+ spots in the draft and FA alone.

For example: You've cleaned house on the safety position, when you absolutely need to hold onto Thomas and Rambo, as you JUST drafted these guys and they need development time. You need to hold onto Doughty because he's proven to be a solid backup in case no one else sticks. From there you can draft or bring in FAs and let people duke out starting roles.

You've also cleaned house in the CB position, when you should considering signing Hall back who had a great year, hold onto Amerson, Crawford maaaybe Minnifield and potentially Gumbs who showed some potential towards the end of the year. Then start signing and drafting.

And crazily enough at TE position, you've let everyone go but Reed who has had a lingering concussion issue since college.

To me you're edging awfully close to the Cerrato method; blow up everything, keep almost no one and sign as many people as possible.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

DR is right. You can't just give half the team a pink slip even if they need it. You aren't going to be able to fill that many slots in the draft/FA. It's a process that takes time. Even when Shanny got here, he slowly changed to roster over drastically from what it was we he inherited it. Only a couple remained from the prior regime.

I expect the same thing will happen this time around. He'll use some of these guys as stop gaps till he can replace them.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

This shouldn't be that difficult people ...

BACK-

Orakpo-it's funny how everyone is down on this guy, he had a couple years battling injuries. When he's healthy as in this year the guy is a solid piece of building the defense back up. Kerrigan and Orakpo on the edges is a good thing period end of story.

Perry Riley-Shows flashes of greatness and I like em especially being tutoring under Fletch. I think this guy can shine and shouldn't cost too much.

Chris Baker aka Big Swaggy - This dude gives 110% every play even in giants finale .. that means something to me and i'm sure it does to people that will be making these decisions. And he can't cost too much .. solid

EJ Biggers - Depth only

Reed Doughty - YES he needs to be back, granted he's no pro bowl safety but he's a leader and a solid special teams guy ... not to mention he always comes to play ... these are the types of guys we need to stay put

D-Hall ... again another guy people dog way to much .. he's shutdown major WR's even with the worst defense in the league he's literally a bright spot .. lay off D-Hall .. he's grown up and deserves to be here to fix this thing


Now for the don't the let the door hit ya team -

Fred Davis -- get the F outta here .. i can't believe some people want to bring back this cancer .. see ya later freddie

D. Tapp ... if he was solid he would have seen the field .. rest my case

R. Jackson ... also seems like he will be solid then doesn't .. never lives up to hype IMO

Sex Grossman .. sorry bra .. it's been real

Santana Moss ... Dude should have his name on Skins' ring of fame ... he WAS one hell of a redskins and to be honest if he came back for dirt cheap i wouldn't mind having him around for one more year .. i'm kinda on fence cause i love this dude so much .. but he's getting up there in age and it finally started to show ... tough call but we have to start improving

Josh Morgan ... still pissed about that Rams game where he threw the ball and got the 15 yd pen back in 2012 ... later dude

Josh Wilson ... yeah he reps the DMV hard .. and I like the guy .. but he gets burned so much its' painful .. later

Nick Barnett .. again never saw playing time ? has to be a reason

JD Walton .. um who the F are you .. later dude i never knew