Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1050772]With RG3 healthy we are not an offensive juggernaut.

I think if you can make a really good case in favor of this rushing offense being as strong as any, but the passing game was an adventure every one of the last four years. Even last year, I thought the passing game was sloppy and unproductive at 3-6. That changed on the seven game winning streak when they put in some spread plays that Griffin ran at Baylor, but they haven't used that part of the playbook this year, and we can't execute anything else.

The bigger point is that THIS LEVEL OF OFFENSE GETS PEOPLE FIRED. So whether or not the team is likely to rebound with an influx of talent and a more confident RG3 is irrelevant. Coaches know you can't let it sink to this level and keep your job. The Cousins play was the last bullet in the barrel. Shanahan is defenseless.[/quote]I'm not sure whether to agree with you about whether we ran the spread offense more late last season. But our offense was a juggernaut last season. To argue otherwise is historical revisionism. We went on a great run, and were kicking Seattle's *** until RG3 got hurt right before our second TD.

I know Shanny's overall record doesn't justify a 5th year here. I know our D and ST are ****. But now you're saying the offense is no good and others are talking about Shanny's "relationship" with RG3 as a factor in this situation?

This is classic Redskins under Snyder's ownership. Historical revisionism and blame-gaming.

Sure, let's fire another coach early, and be a circus here about "how it really went down".

No wonder we're a ****ing laughingstock.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

I would love to see a Redskin guy take over but nobody would want Russ Grimm because everyone thinks a big name coach is the answer. It looks to me the big name coaches are like the big name players they come to DC to retire.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1050798]I'm not sure whether to agree with you about whether we ran the spread offense more late last season. But our offense was a juggernaut last season. To argue otherwise is historical revisionism. We went on a great run, and were kicking Seattle's *** until RG3 got hurt right before our second TD.

I know Shanny's overall record doesn't justify a 5th year here. I know our D and ST are ****. But now you're saying the offense is no good and others are talking about Shanny's "relationship" with RG3 as a factor in this situation?

This is classic Redskins under Snyder's ownership. Historical revisionism and blame-gaming.

Sure, let's fire another coach early, and be a circus here about "how it really went down".

No wonder we're a ****ing laughingstock.[/quote]Okay, so "revisionism" is pointing to 2012 and building an argument about how good our offense was in a sample less than half the length of which we have struggled in this year. Taking four years as a whole and pointing out that the passing game has not been good throughout many different factors is not revisionism, it is analysis. They have been worse then their average this year.

In short, we have been bad at throwing the football since the Shanahan's got here. We have been worse more recently.

With their successes last year, Mike, Kyle, Jim et al earned the right to have 2013 be the deciding year on their tenure here. That's what they earned by winning the NFC East in 2012. We're at the end of 2013 now and, well, you have to wait a week for the verdict to be read, but no one thinks it's in doubt.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=Mattyk;1050771]Serious question for anyone who thinks Mike deserves another year.

WTF is wrong with you?[/quote]

Regardless of what all the fans think, many of the respected vets have lobbied for MS. Even Cooley has said very positive things about MS.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1050802]Okay, so "revisionism" is pointing to 2012 and building an argument about how good our offense was in a sample less than half the length of which we have struggled in this year. Taking four years as a whole and pointing out that the passing game has not been good throughout many different factors is not revisionism, it is analysis. They have been worse then their average this year.[/quote]And the past six years the Redskins offense has been bad. So what does that change about the Shanny's offense clicking with a healthy RG3?

[quote=GTripp0012;1050802]In short, we have been bad at throwing the football since the Shanahan's got here. We have been worse more recently.[/quote]Your franchise QB playing on one leg tends to do that.

[quote=GTripp0012;1050802]With their successes last year, Mike, Kyle, Jim et al earned the right to have 2013 be the deciding year on their tenure here. That's what they earned by winning the NFC East in 2012. We're at the end of 2013 now and, well, you have to wait a week for the verdict to be read, but no one thinks it's in doubt.[/quote]I was unaware year 4 was the deciding year per Mike Shanahan's contract.

I agree Shanny's tenure here has been pretty bad. I think he's done the best he could here. And looking at past coaches, seems par for the course. Turner - fired middle of a disappointing season, one year after making the playoffs. Schotty - fired in one season even after the team rallied for him. Spurrier - quit after only two seasons, doing fine in SC now. Gibbs - made playoffs twice, but even he couldn't make a +.500 tenure here. Zorn - :doh:.

Sure, let the circus continue. Think the best up and coming Head Coaches will be beating down Snyder's door at this rate?

Would love for Shanny, Snyder, and RG3 to go to the next photo op, and collectively flip the bird to the press. And Shanny and Co. have the team make the playoffs next season. But I guess my fantasy just isn't happening. It's just business as usual: Blaming and historical revisionism and a revolving door at the Head Coach office. Wonderful.

Satisfied, as long as Dan Goes!!! And the ST coach of course.. ;-)


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[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1050810]Regardless of what all the fans think, many of the respected vets have lobbied for MS. Even Cooley has said very positive things about MS.[/QUOTE]


Yup! Some of the elders on this board just want the continued circus!! I say, stay the course..


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Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

The circus is already in town. Just look for the red faced clown on the sidelines.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=Mattyk;1050828]The circus is already in town. Just look for the red faced clown on the sidelines.[/quote]

Red Lobster

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

Truly.....a treasure..

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

I'm beginning to believe the "Snyder Problem", however, I understand the cost of firing MS and Co.

If MS is retained then I'm expecting major changes. ie; Haslett gone, Burns gone, quality coaching brought in. A decision of what the offensive identity will be... "Spread/Read Option" or "MS WCO". Pick one and stay with it. Give the OL some stability with one scheme so they know how and what their blocking assignment is every time.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

Can you trust Mike Shanhan to bring in quality assistants?

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1050815]I was unaware year 4 was the deciding year per Mike Shanahan's contract.[/quote]Well...now you know.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1050828]The circus is already in town. Just look for the red faced clown on the sidelines.[/QUOTE]


:-).. The guy really needs to get out of the tanning bed!!


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Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=SBXVII;1050834]I'm beginning to believe the "Snyder Problem", however, I understand the cost of firing MS and Co.

If MS is retained then I'm expecting major changes. ie; Haslett gone, Burns gone, quality coaching brought in. A decision of what the offensive identity will be... "Spread/Read Option" or "MS WCO". Pick one and stay with it. Give the OL some stability with one scheme so they know how and what their blocking assignment is every time.[/quote]

I see the problem of how do you bring MS back without an extension and bring in quality coaches.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

I haven't posted on here in years, but today I feel like getting something off my chest. What the f has happened to my childhood favorite football team? This shit-show of a team is just an embarrassing example of what an NFL team in a large market should be like. I am truly sick and f'ing tired of this team playing like hot garbage. Shanny, after 4 years at the helm, and this is your body of work? Really??? Epic fail you miserable piece of sub human excrement!!! We as a loyal fan base deserve WAY better than this crap. To hell with those bums, and you know who they are. I am done, checked out, finished.

[QUOTE=4mrusmc;1050852]I haven't posted on here in years, but today I feel like getting something off my chest. What the f has happened to my childhood favorite football team? This shit-show of a team is just an embarrassing example of what an NFL team in a large market should be like. I am truly sick and f'ing tired of this team playing like hot garbage. Shanny, after 4 years at the helm, and this is your body of work? Really??? Epic fail you miserable piece of sub human excrement!!! We as a loyal fan base deserve WAY better than this crap. To hell with those bums, and you know who they are. I am done, checked out, finished.[/QUOTE]

I feel your pain man believe me

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1050457]Extend Shanahan. Start cousins. Trade rg3.[/quote]Fire Shanahan. Start Griffin. Retain Cousins as a quality backup.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

I dont know what I will feel if he's retained but I do expect him to coach here next year.

After further consideration, Shanny needs to be gone. He had a rough go with the salary cap fine and what he came into, however a good coach would have at least got an average record. This coach got NOTHING from this squad. How many of us who work for a living would keep our jobs with this output? I know I couldn't.

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Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1050445]Thanks mbedner3420......I would not only be dissatisfied if Shanahan hangs on to his job but I would be outraged.....how can any head coach not only be 24-37 but have 3 double digit losing seasons in 4 years oon the rich contract has? Shanahan needs to take his ass back to the Colorado mountains where he came from.[/quote]

This. Outraged I say.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=44Deezel;1050468]Or keep them both and let the best man win.[/quote]

Might as well let Rex compete too. Hell, he can get you 400 yards every other game too. You know damn well Cousins is not that good, Rex is better than Cousins.



[B][COLOR="Lime"]Rex is better than Cousins.[/COLOR][/B]

Kirk didn't play good yesterday no doubt but I think he's got a good future as a starter for someone else, maybe like a Minnesota or even a JAX. He'll never be a great QB but there isn't many of those.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

I was a Shanahan supporter/defender/apologist for 3.5 years, right up until about mid October this year but I cannot see how any reasonable person can justify wanting him to return under any circumstance.

The record speaks for itself. He's in the Spurrier/Zorn range with his winning percentage. Best case if we win next week, our record is 4-12, the same record of the coach (Zorn) that was fired and he replaced 4 years ago. Worst case, with a loss and some 'help' we've given up the #1 overall pick. This season was a disaster, no other way to put it.

He's made all of the decisions (players, coaching staff, schemes) and by-in-large, they've mostly been failures. Of his 34 draft picks, you can count 4 (T. Williams, Kerrigan, RG3, Morris) as impact player, just 8 (Riley, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Paul, A. Robinson, Amerson, Reed) that are between mediocre and contributors and the rest are just roster fill or no longer on the team. 12 out of 34 is pretty weak. Add in the spotty free agent record outside of Garcon and Cofield, the roster management was poor.

Even the cap penalty, which was pretty much BS, still happened under his direction. He was involved in the process and as the man in charge, it's his responsibility. The 'noise' around the franchise was largely caused by him as well whether it was publicly feuding with Haynesworth, McNabb or RG3, the comments at 3-6 last year or the many, many, many 'sources' and leaks that seem to eminate from his camp.

How can anyone, ANYONE, consider bringing him back and think it will be any different?

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

When he jeopardized the future of the organization by keeping RGIII in the Seattle play-off gane...at that pint I knew he did not have the key thing all grat leaders need to succeed....judgment. He must be sacked!

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

I think Shanahan is a big problem, but to me two bigger problems were the $36 mil cap and the RG3 injury happening at the same time. I'd like to see a team overcome these two problems happening at the same time, I doubt many can. Just like how the Saints were unable to overcome not having Sean Peyton on the sidelines when he was suspended.

That being said, things need to change with the team. While I believe this team has seen worst seasons (Spurrier/Zorn/Vinny), we still need to move on from the current coaching regime. I think it'd be really stupid to keep Shanahan; but I highly doubt it will happen. Plus, to me a healthy cap and RG3 will make a big difference, regardless of the coach.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1050810]Regardless of what all the fans think, [B]many of the respected vets have lobbied for MS[/B]. Even Cooley has said very positive things about MS.[/quote]

Eh, who cares. Players know that a coaching change puts their jobs on the line too.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1050935]I think Shanahan is a big problem, [B]but to me two bigger problems were the $36 mil cap and the RG3 injury happening at the same time.[/B] I'd like to see a team overcome these two problems happening at the same time, I doubt many can. Just like how the Saints were unable to overcome not having Sean Peyton on the sidelines when he was suspended.

That being said, things need to change with the team. While I believe this team has seen worst seasons (Spurrier/Zorn/Vinny), we still need to move on from the current coaching regime. I think it'd be really stupid to keep Shanahan; but I highly doubt it will happen. Plus, to me a healthy cap and RG3 will make a big difference, regardless of the coach.[/quote]



They are Shanahan "problems," not separate. RG's injury is on Shanahan 100%, and the reporting on the cap situation is that Mike's decisions there resulted in the penalty as it stood.


I don't think you're alone though in misunderstanding what "total" control means i.e. every decision the Redskins have made these last four years ultimately are Mike's decisions. Period. You can get into conspiracy discussions about Snyder meddling, but there's no evidence there.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=The Goat;1051001]They are Shanahan "problems," not separate. RG's injury is on Shanahan 100%, and the reporting on the cap situation is that Mike's decisions there resulted in the penalty as it stood.

I don't think you're alone though in misunderstanding what "total" control means i.e. every decision the Redskins have made these last four years ultimately are Mike's decisions. Period. You can get into conspiracy discussions about Snyder meddling, but there's no evidence there.[/quote]

I don't want to get into the discussion of the cap situation, but to me the team got screwed. Then again, if you want to go deeper into "who is to blame" for the cap issue, then it would be the previous regime who gave Haynesworth and D. Hall a ton of money that tied up our future cap.

In terms of the RG3 injury, it was Haloti Ngata's hit on RG3's knee that created the whole mess. Shanahan's and/or RG3's decision from them on just made it worst.

My point is that [COLOR="Red"][B][U]in addition to the mistakes of the coaching staff (MS & Co.)[/U][/B][/COLOR], which a lot of people have pointed out, there were these two events that made things a whole lot worse.

I think if there is no $36 million cap penalty and no RG3 injury, things may have been different this season. It may have possibly disguised a lot of the dysfunction that is coming to light this season.

My point in the end is that we need to move on from this coaching staff and not having an injured QB and our full cap will make a big different.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=wordsmithgk;1050837]Can you trust Mike Shanhan to bring in quality assistants?[/quote]

Um probably not. However I also think Haslett was the conselation prize. Could we make a major move like Lovie Smith? Or is there a DC who's contract is up for us to steal them away? Or do we have to go with an assistant to a DC?

I can tell you I'm ready to pick from the Canadian League right now. Anyone has to be better then Haslett. Find a way to bring Kubiak on board and try try try to get Alex Smith for the OL. Sweet talk him, offer double shatter hes making now and try to get MS's final year to a playoff again.

They do that none of us will care about this years BS.

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1050873]Fire Shanahan. Start Griffin. Retain Cousins as a quality backup.[/quote]

People are sooooo sold on RG3. How about the QB who gives this team the best chance to win, whether it be RG3 or Cousins or someone else.

But I'm not one to say RG3 is it just because of one good year and one bad year. I for one have not forgotten the Jason Campbell Franchise QB expierment.

What I would like to know is how many Spread/Option Read QB's have done well in the NFL? What % of them pan out in the pros? And on average how many years does it take for one of them to developed into a Franchise QB?

Re: Just a question for the Redskins diehard faithful....
 

Cousins sure isn't doing much to bring any real competition to the table.