Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=budw38;1051134]He was a 4th rd pick so .... . I don't think anyone after 3 starts can honestly be cast as , good , great or bust . I would guess if KC has a strong work ethic , great confidence he can develop into a very good qb . RG111 can be great as he was last year with the right team/coaches . OL , DL , DB and I think this could be moving in the right direction .[/quote]

I hate that draft position even matters. The NFL's "best and brightest" continually prove they have no clue when it comes to grading and drafting QBs. Even guys like Brees and Rodgers weren't early first round picks.

That said, I don't care where Cousins was drafted. He has played at practically a historic level in his first few starts at a position that even the best struggle mightily at for years. If he was our first round pick, we'd all be optimistic about the future. So unless you believe he's only going to get worse with more experience, there's no reason to think he's just a dime a dozen. But who knows. Projecting QBs is one of life's great mysteries.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=Hog1;1051152]Oh.....HELL NO Bud! Three starts is more than enough......
Just ask Troy Aikman, Peyton Manning.....Kurt Warner.....[/quote]

Don't forget about Brees. San Diego "saw his talent" and drafted Philip Rivers after his second year, because they Concluded he wasn't franchise QB material.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1051349]Here's where I stand on the young QB's:

1. I think they both have the ability to be starters in the NFL.
2. I'd like to keep both of them for at least one more season.
3. I see no reason to have an open competition. RGIII is #1.
4. Both young QB's need to work with outstanding QB teachers in the off-season.
5. The Redskins need to hire the best QB coach they can get for next season.[/quote]

Agree with all points. Unless we get blown out of the water with an offer for Cousins I'd rather hang on to them both for another year too.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=skinsguy;1051339][B]I have to believe that Redskins fans have to be the most "knee-jerk reacting" fans in the entire league. [/B]I mean, RGIII has one great year and it's time to enshrine him in the Hall of Fame. Has a bad second year (do to injury no doubt), and he's mentioned in the same category as a bust and people are wanting to trade him. Kirk Cousins comes out and plays decently - basically like how a normal second year fourth round draft pick back up quarterback would play - and he's a dime a dozen. OR, he's a superstar. One extreme or the other!

Come on guys!

Which would you rather have: A combination of RGIII/Cousins, or John Beck/Rex Grossman? I would take my chances with the former. And I would also make sure those two quarterbacks are on the same roster next year as well. Seriously, this is the best depth the 'skins has had at quarterback in a long, long time. There are more serious issues that need addressing - but quarterback is not one!

Special teams, alone, have lost the 'skins some games this year. Defense has lost games for this team as well. Offensive pass protection has been bad for most of the season - and it's gotten worse. The only time I feel it's necessary to complain about quarterback play is when the offensive line is as stout and solid - to the liken of the old hogs. When the defense is solid and stingy, and the special teams makes big plays for the 'skins and NOT for the other team. Then if the Redskins are still losing games, then we need to take a long hard look at the quarterback. Heck, even if all the 'skins are able to improve on is pass protection and special teams - that might be enough to give a good long look at quarterback, but as far as I'm concerned, this team needs to overall some very glaring issues first before we start crapping on RGIII or Kirk Cousins.[/quote]

Fans in general can be pretty retarded. Last week after the Saints lost to the Panthers I heard callers on Monday morning on NFL radio saying Brees wasn't getting it done and that Sean Payton should be fired. :doh:

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=44Deezel;1051398]Don't forget about Brees. San Diego "saw his talent" and drafted Philip Rivers after his second year, because they Concluded he wasn't franchise QB material.[/quote]Well, after Brees' third year. When he had lost his starting job for a few games to Doug Flutie. And later on the shoulder injury played a factor in SD's decision to let Brees go.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=skinsguy;1051339]I have to believe that Redskins fans have to be the most "knee-jerk reacting" fans in the entire league.[/quote]

Not as long as Philly has fans.

There was an Eagles fan in the front row at the game in in Philly last week who is the reigning king of "knee jerk" reactions. During one Eagles offensive series he cheered loudly on every down that the Eagles made positive yardage and booed loudly on every down that the Eagles made negative yardage. I've never known a Redskins fan who could do that.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1051405]Not as long as Philly has fans.

There was an Eagles fan in the front row at the game in in Philly last week who is the reigning king of "knee jerk" reactions. During one Eagles offensive series he cheered loudly on every down that the Eagles made positive yardage and booed loudly on every down that the Eagles made negative yardage. I've never known a Redskins fan who could do that.[/quote]

Did you take away his meth?

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=skinsguy;1051339]I have to believe that Redskins fans have to be the most "knee-jerk reacting" fans in the entire league. I mean, RGIII has one great year and it's time to enshrine him in the Hall of Fame. Has a bad second year (do to injury no doubt), and he's mentioned in the same category as a bust and people are wanting to trade him. [B]Kirk Cousins comes out and plays decently - basically like how a normal second year fourth round draft pick back up quarterback would play - and he's a dime a dozen. OR, he's a superstar. One extreme or the other! [/B]

Come on guys!

Which would you rather have: A combination of RGIII/Cousins, or John Beck/Rex Grossman? I would take my chances with the former. And I would also make sure those two quarterbacks are on the same roster next year as well. Seriously, this is the best depth the 'skins has had at quarterback in a long, long time. There are more serious issues that need addressing - but quarterback is not one!

Special teams, alone, have lost the 'skins some games this year. Defense has lost games for this team as well. Offensive pass protection has been bad for most of the season - and it's gotten worse. The only time I feel it's necessary to complain about quarterback play is when the offensive line is as stout and solid - to the liken of the old hogs. When the defense is solid and stingy, and the special teams makes big plays for the 'skins and NOT for the other team. Then if the Redskins are still losing games, then we need to take a long hard look at the quarterback. Heck, even if all the 'skins are able to improve on is pass protection and special teams - that might be enough to give a good long look at quarterback, but as far as I'm concerned, this team needs to overall some very glaring issues first before we start crapping on RGIII or Kirk Cousins.[/quote]

He's the first Redskins QB to throw for over 300 yards in his first 2 starts and you call that NORMAL? First round projected starters BUST on a regular basis in the NFL, yet a 4th round pick puts up numbers like that and it's considered routine. Not saying KC is a future Hall of Famer or even that he won't amount to anything more than a career backup, BUT I don't see how anyone can say he's just been OK or performed as any 4th round backup would.

I'm with you on everything else. If the Special Teams and Defense weren't absolutely, bottom-of-the-league, abysmal, the Skins would have won 4-5 more games this year. They can improve in both areas in a single off-season. If they were even middle of the pack in both areas, the season would have been totally different. With a full salary cap and via the draft, they can do what they need to do to contend for the worst division in football... next year!

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=44Deezel;1051409]He's the first Redskins QB to throw for over 300 yards in his first 2 starts and you call that NORMAL? First round projected starters BUST on a regular basis in the NFL, yet a 4th round pick puts up numbers like that and it's considered routine. Not saying KC is a future Hall of Famer or even that he won't amount to anything more than a career backup, [B]BUT I don't see how anyone can say he's just been OK or performed as any 4th round backup would.[/B]

I'm with you on everything else. If the Special Teams and Defense weren't absolutely, bottom-of-the-league, abysmal, the Skins would have won 4-5 more games this year. They can improve in both areas in a single off-season. If they were even middle of the pack in both areas, the season would have been totally different. With a full salary cap and via the draft, they can do what they need to do to contend for the worst division in football... next year![/quote]

Yeah he's thrown for some yards (against some bad defenses) but the turnovers are a concern.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1051411]Yeah he's thrown for some yards (against some bad defenses) but the turnovers are a concern.[/QUOTE]

As I have said before that is a result of inexperience and not inability imo.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

I have patience. It was so clear what was wrong with Griffin this year. Hes gonna break out of that knee brace like forrest gump next season.

[QUOTE=Skins4L;1051418]I have patience. It was so clear what was wrong with Griffin this year. Hes gonna break out of that knee brace like forrest gump next season.[/QUOTE]

I agree. My concern is with his passing game - will he be a more accurate passer? A better decision maker? I think his mechanics were bothered by the brace, (throwing off his back foot, etc), but his inability to read the field is what has me concerned.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=punch it in;1051423]I agree. My concern is with his passing game - will he be a more accurate passer? A better decision maker? I think his mechanics were bothered by the brace, (throwing off his back foot, etc), but his inability to read the field is what has me concerned.[/quote]

Yeah I don't get why everyone says..."well it's his brace"..First of all a brace doesn't hurt your accuracy. Mobilty? I'd agree there, especially with someone that moves like RG3. When he should've been progressing as the season went on, he seemed to get worse and make the same mistakes over and over again. That concerns me. This is why we need to keep Cousins. We are not sure if he's ever going play well in a pro offense. We don't know if he's Vince Young or Steve Young.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

I don't think it was the brace as much as he lost the muscle memory and lacked full confidence in the knee as well. Nothing a good offseason of working on fundamentals can't fix. Something he didn't get enough of due to rehab.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=44Deezel;1051409][B]He's the first Redskins QB to throw for over 300 yards in his first 2 starts and you call that NORMAL?[/B] First round projected starters BUST on a regular basis in the NFL, yet a 4th round pick puts up numbers like that and it's considered routine. Not saying KC is a future Hall of Famer or even that he won't amount to anything more than a career backup, BUT I don't see how anyone can say he's just been OK or performed as any 4th round backup would.

I'm with you on everything else. If the Special Teams and Defense weren't absolutely, bottom-of-the-league, abysmal, the Skins would have won 4-5 more games this year. They can improve in both areas in a single off-season. If they were even middle of the pack in both areas, the season would have been totally different. With a full salary cap and via the draft, they can do what they need to do to contend for the worst division in football... next year![/quote]

I think you completely misunderstood my point. I'm not cracking on Kirk Cousins at all. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm saying that a lot of Redskins fans around here are in one extreme or the other. Either that Kirk Cousins is a superstar or he's a dud. I'm basically saying he's done some great things in his limited time playing, but he's also looked like a fourth round quarterback with limited playing time. He's had good and bad. The more playing time, the more I think Kirk becomes one of the better quarterbacks in the league, but all this talk about trading RGIII and starting Cousins OR that Cousins isn't worth even the fourth rounder we spent on him is both crazy talk.

That's all I'm saying.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=44Deezel;1051409]He's the first Redskins QB to throw for over 300 yards in his first 2 starts and you call that NORMAL? First round projected starters BUST on a regular basis in the NFL, yet a 4th round pick puts up numbers like that and it's considered routine. Not saying KC is a future Hall of Famer or even that he won't amount to anything more than a career backup, BUT I don't see how anyone can say he's just been OK or performed as any 4th round backup would.

I'm with you on everything else. If the Special Teams and Defense weren't absolutely, bottom-of-the-league, abysmal, the Skins would have won 4-5 more games this year. They can improve in both areas in a single off-season. If they were even middle of the pack in both areas, the season would have been totally different. With a full salary cap and via the draft, they can do what they need to do to contend for the worst division in football... next year![/quote]


Cousins had a full offseason with OTAs with the first team. I expect more from the next Tom Brady. [B]Cousins had all the off season RG3 did not have.[/B] People say RG3 needs a full offseaeson , well Cousins had a full offseason and all we get is 3 TDs and 3 picks against ATL and Allas (Dallas has no D).

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1051430]Yeah I don't get why everyone says..."well it's his brace"..First of all a brace doesn't hurt your accuracy. Mobilty? I'd agree there, especially with someone that moves like RG3. When he should've been progressing as the season went on, he seemed to get worse and make the same mistakes over and over again. That concerns me. This is why we need to keep Cousins. We are not sure if he's ever going play well in a pro offense. We don't know if he's Vince Young or Steve Young.[/QUOTE]

They are both on this team next year unless we get some outrageous offer for one. Translation....they are both on this team next year.
Because of the brace and what Matty alluded to though he was throwing off his back foot hence the accuracy. It was his reading of the field that there was really no excuse for. He needs someone to coach him up in that regard. There are a handful of candidates - namely the three i mentioned that can do that - that have done that with Wilson, And Kap especially - who has come on strong the last few weeks.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1051325]I think everyone loves what RG3 did last year. However, it's apparent that RG3 isn't going to hold up running for 800 yards and we can't win with the pass offense we saw this year while he was playing. RG3 has said himself he wants to be Aaron Rodgers. He's made that known to the coaches. Problem is he's still a project in the pro pass game and there's pressure for him to perform now because of the ridiculous trade. Should be an interesting off season.[/quote]I would have preferred that the coaches did a better job working on Griffin in a pro passing attack, and let him learn, even if it meant losing. Griffin's best chance at winning now is to run a college style read option attack that the league has clearly caught up with. Our next coach had better be able to groom raw talent, because Griffin isn't getting cut or traded any time soon.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

So who else thinks KC went from being traded for a high 2nd to staying for another year as RGIII's backup with his performance the past 3 games?

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1051175]Washington Post will stop at nothing to hurt Snyder and the franchise. Screw Boswell, we are trying to build trade value.[/quote]

Why wouldn't they? Dan Snyder created the ridiculous circus here and stirred the pot by trying to shove the Washington post around and force them to be Larry Michaels (AKA lickspittle toady Dan Snyder Yes men).

Hurt the franchise? I would say Danny boy has done 100% of that to himself by being a massive D-bag that does everything the wrong way.

I agree that Cousin's is looking awful Jay Cutler like... and I;'d be the first to point out that MANY great QB's looked bad/mediocre/horrible in their first starts... Just usually not after grooming/practicing for year.

Sadly RGIII was looking worse. Not sure how they recover from this disaster, but I am sure that it will take at least a year or two to sort it out and get to some semblance of stability if they can manage even that.

KC had a horrible game today, but my God on a team full of quitters led by a head coach who is only worried about his 7 million dollars, and an oline that couldnt keep a thirty foot statue made of steel and anchored to the field with 1000 lb weights uprite im not sure what qb would have looked better.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

Although RG3 is immune to all that and single handily was the result to his ineffectiveness this year.

Love these threads

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=punch it in;1051758]KC had a horrible game today, but my God on a team full of quitters led by a head coach who is only worried about his 7 million dollars, and[B] an oline that couldnt keep a thirty foot statue made of steel and anchored to the field with 1000 lb weights uprite [/B]im not sure what qb would have looked better.[/quote]

and we wonder why RGIII couldn't do his magic this year!!?

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=44 70 chip;1051751]Why wouldn't they? Dan Snyder created the ridiculous circus here and stirred the pot by trying to shove the Washington post around and force them to be Larry Michaels (AKA lickspittle toady Dan Snyder Yes men).

Hurt the franchise? I would say Danny boy has done 100% of that to himself by being a massive D-bag that does everything the wrong way.

I agree that Cousin's is looking awful Jay Cutler like... and I;'d be the first to point out that MANY great QB's looked bad/mediocre/horrible in their first starts... Just usually not after grooming/practicing for year.

Sadly RGIII was looking worse. Not sure how they recover from this disaster, but I am sure that it will take at least a year or two to sort it out and get to some semblance of stability if they can manage even that.[/quote]

RG3 never looked that bad.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

Thomas Boswell :

"Make me and Kyle look good, kid" sure didn't work out the way it was planned.

Cousins ended up with the lowest QB rating this season of anybody in the entire NFL who had 100 pass attempts. (He had 155.)

There was nothing wrong with starting a different QB the last three weeks. But anybody who thinks Shanahan did it for the the reasons he said -- and no other reasons --would believe anything.

Got to say that Shanahan's exodus is the shabbiest I have ever seen from a pro coach in Washington, certainly in the last 35 years. Whatever his problems with Snyder and whatever his resentments toward Griffin, how do you accept $35-million of anybody's money then try to undermine his business as you leave?

I feel bad for Cousins. But all you can ask for in the NFL is a chance and he got one. He started in a dome against one of the worst defenses in the league (Atlanta), then at home against THE worst defense in the league (Dallas). To balance out those easy games, he had tough conditions on the road on Sunday in the cold rain against a medicore Giants defense (15th in yards allowed).

The results, please.

Cousins finished the year with the lowest quaterback rating of anybody in the NFL who attempted 100 passes -- a 58.4 rating. The next lowest wasn't even close -- Geno Smith 66.3.

Cousins had the worst completion percentage of any NFL QB (min 100 passes) at 52.3 below Brandon Weedon at 52.8. And Cousins had the lowest yards-per-attempt of any QB in the NFL at 5.5 yards-per-pass, almost a full yard behind Mike Glennon.

That doesn't include his lost fumbles or all the passes that were nearly intercepted or should have been intercepted that were dropped. Cousins was in a bad situation. BUT he had a 1,200-yard running back and a 1,300-yard wide receiver. Plenty of Skins QB's over the years never had either to take pressure off them. The offense was as healthy as anybody is in Weeks 15-16-17 of an NFL season.

Cousins came into the league as the 101st pick, a 4th-rounder. That's probably about what you could get for him now. IOW, the Skins probably wasted that useful draft pick, too, since Cousins now seems like a decent but run-of-the-mill backup quarterback. And he may need time to become that. He's had some very good moments -- like the 381-yards in Atlanta. But the worst thing a QB can do is turn the ball over. And he appears to be an absolute turnover machine. He's young, but that was also one of his traits in college.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1052255]Thomas Boswell :

"Make me and Kyle look good, kid" sure didn't work out the way it was planned.

Cousins ended up with the lowest QB rating this season of anybody in the entire NFL who had 100 pass attempts. (He had 155.)

There was nothing wrong with starting a different QB the last three weeks. But anybody who thinks Shanahan did it for the the reasons he said -- and no other reasons --would believe anything.

Got to say that Shanahan's exodus is the shabbiest I have ever seen from a pro coach in Washington, certainly in the last 35 years. Whatever his problems with Snyder and whatever his resentments toward Griffin, how do you accept $35-million of anybody's money then try to undermine his business as you leave?

I feel bad for Cousins. But all you can ask for in the NFL is a chance and he got one. He started in a dome against one of the worst defenses in the league (Atlanta), then at home against THE worst defense in the league (Dallas). To balance out those easy games, he had tough conditions on the road on Sunday in the cold rain against a medicore Giants defense (15th in yards allowed).

The results, please.

Cousins finished the year with the lowest quaterback rating of anybody in the NFL who attempted 100 passes -- a 58.4 rating. The next lowest wasn't even close -- Geno Smith 66.3.

Cousins had the worst completion percentage of any NFL QB (min 100 passes) at 52.3 below Brandon Weedon at 52.8. And Cousins had the lowest yards-per-attempt of any QB in the NFL at 5.5 yards-per-pass, almost a full yard behind Mike Glennon.

That doesn't include his lost fumbles or all the passes that were nearly intercepted or should have been intercepted that were dropped. Cousins was in a bad situation. BUT he had a 1,200-yard running back and a 1,300-yard wide receiver. Plenty of Skins QB's over the years never had either to take pressure off them. The offense was as healthy as anybody is in Weeks 15-16-17 of an NFL season.

Cousins came into the league as the 101st pick, a 4th-rounder. That's probably about what you could get for him now. IOW, the Skins probably wasted that useful draft pick, too, since Cousins now seems like a decent but run-of-the-mill backup quarterback. And he may need time to become that. He's had some very good moments -- like the 381-yards in Atlanta. But the worst thing a QB can do is turn the ball over. And he appears to be an absolute turnover machine. He's young, but that was also one of his traits in college.[/quote]Kirk looked bad in a year that RG3 (ROY last season) looked average. We know now that considering draft position, Russel Wilson was a better deal than RG3, we don't know if Cousins was a better deal than RG3 yet.

Last season... without Cousins, we don't make the playoffs.

I'm wondering why you have such a hate boner for Cousins at the end of a miserable season for the team. Maybe this will help: Don't be scared, nobody's seriously talked of replacing RG3 with KC as an actual fix for one of many problems we have. Maybe have a little perspective that KC could still turn out to be a good QB, and be glad he's on our team.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

For all those saying rg3 is a diva.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/30/griffin-tiptoes-around-shanahan-firing/]Griffin tiptoes around Shanahan firing | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE=SkinzWin;1052308]For all those saying rg3 is a diva.



[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/30/griffin-tiptoes-around-shanahan-firing/]Griffin tiptoes around Shanahan firing | ProFootballTalk[/url][/QUOTE]


Handled very well on his part.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1052308]For all those saying rg3 is a diva.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/30/griffin-tiptoes-around-shanahan-firing/]Griffin tiptoes around Shanahan firing | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Don't worry, someone already pointed out that it looks bad that because several other players endorsed Shanny, since RG3 didn't, he's a dick. (Okay, they didn't say "dick" but I'm paraphrasing here)

Can't please anyone.

Re: Kirk cousins = dime a dozen
 

[quote=punch it in;1051423]I agree. My concern is with his passing game - will he be a more accurate passer? A better decision maker? I think his mechanics were bothered by the brace, (throwing off his back foot, etc), but his inability to read the field is what has me concerned.[/quote]

couldnt have said it better myself. seemed very hesitant at moments when he did have time i wondered exactly what he saw alot. could have been poor route running. no playaction to create seperation this year and most of his early picks were bobbled and botches by wrs maybe caused him to lay off the trigger later on.

toms river i see me too