Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Fiversons;1061317]@ MOOBY

That "FA Cap" isn't a set number though, they can always restructure contracts, cut players, etc. There isn't any reason to assume we can't maneuver within the cap to get the players we want.

Yes but committing that much money to one player worries me when we have so many holes to fill on the lines, MLB and secondary... I like Sackpo and want him in DC, but for more than 10 million a year isn't worth that IMO.... Good organizations don't overpay for talent, and replace them in house, which seems to be a real problem we have...[/quote]

I don't want to pay Orakpo more than 10 mil a year either, but we're far from a good organization so that's what happens. Rak was gonna get paid regardless, the only question was a matter of who. For at least the next year, it's us. I doubt this is going to significantly hamper us in FA either.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I dont agree that this staff isn't listening. They just felt it in their best interests to keep a pro bowl pass rusher who is still only 26 years old, and has a ton left in the tank. 11.5, while I believe its overpaying a bit, is not obscene overpaying. And its a hometown guy who has a good work ethic and can be a leader, which is especially needed given our defensive situation and the new coaching staff.

I think we will sign him to 5 years, 52 - 55 million with 25 guaranteed. Orakpo is worth around that.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1061332]I dont agree that this staff isn't listening. They just felt it in their best interests to keep a pro bowl pass rusher who is still only 26 years old, and has a ton left in the tank. 11.5, while I believe its overpaying a bit, is not obscene overpaying. And its a hometown guy who has a good work ethic and can be a leader, which is especially needed given our defensive situation and the new coaching staff.

I think we will sign him to 5 years, 52 - 55 million with 25 guaranteed. Orakpo is worth around that.[/quote]

I thought 26 was low, but he's actually 27 and will be 28 at the end of July. That's even better than I thought, I read an article that said he's turning 29 in July.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061323][B][SIZE="4"]@RapSheet

What is next for #Redskins pass-rusher Brian Orakpo? I’m told he has no plans to sign the franchise tag as of now. May be a while[/SIZE].[/B]



Guess he didn't like the tag too much.[/quote]

There's no rush

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5840/brian-orakpo-im-relieved]Brian Orakpo on franchise tag: I'm relieved - ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

What's the guest on the guaranteed money in an Rak deal? We aren't talking about over 40 mil for a guy who is going to be 29?

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061339]What's the guest on the guaranteed money in an Rak deal? We aren't talking about over 40 mil for a guy who is going to be 29?[/quote]

Double Post

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061339]What's the guest on the guaranteed money in an Rak deal? We aren't talking about over 40 mil for a guy who is going to be 29?[/quote]

He will be 28 at the end of July... Or did you mean in a year from now?

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061339]What's the guest on the guaranteed money in an Rak deal? We aren't talking about over 40 mil for a guy who is going to be 29?[/quote]

My guess 30-35

And he's 27

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1061330]No big deal with the tag. Yeah Rak isn't a 11 million dollar player but we're also not tied to him long term either. I like this move for now. [B]Let's see how it plays out.[/B] [B]We still have plenty of room to make some improvements[/B][B].[/B][/quote]

I'm fine with the tag, as well. Like you, I'm not ready to jump to any conclusions about this management team until we see their plan unfold. So far, they haven't re-signed anyone I would object to retaining.

By my simple arithmetic, it looks like we'll have about $24MM to work with after Carriker, Bowen, Rocca, and some others are cut. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about that number.

Honestly, I don't have much of an idea of what that might buy but I'm looking forward to finding out.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Mattyk;1061342]My guess 30-35

And he's 27[/quote]

If he gets what he supposedly wants it will be at least 35, closer to 40

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061195]Httr24-7 saying the tag to Rak would be A Danny boy move, saying reaks of Dan still meddling. I personally wouldn't have a problem with it.[/quote]


[quote=SmootSmack;1061209]Eh, I think he's more just pointing out that among the Redskins brain trust Snyder is far and away Rak's biggest supporter[/quote]

O' rly?


[B]@HTTR24_7

No comment...RT @RunPassScore @HTTR24_7 you think Snyder had a hand in this move?


@HTTR24_7

@Royzzzay Don't like the tag & don't like how it happened.

[/B]



Sounds like more than just that. Something happened.

Goes back to what I said about ignoring our personnel guys. Same shit, different regime.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1061332]I dont agree that this staff isn't listening. They just felt it in their best interests to keep a pro bowl pass rusher who is still only 26 years old, and has a ton left in the tank. 11.5, while I believe its overpaying a bit, is not obscene overpaying. And its a hometown guy who has a good work ethic and can be a leader, which is especially needed given our defensive situation and the new coaching staff.

I think we will sign him to 5 years, 52 - 55 million with 25 guaranteed. Orakpo is worth around that.[/quote]

Good post.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Is it time for a "yes" or "no" poll on whether or not the Redskins made the right decision in using the franchise tag on Brian Orakpo?

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061348]O' rly?


[B]@HTTR24_7

No comment...RT @RunPassScore @HTTR24_7 you think Snyder had a hand in this move?


@HTTR24_7

@Royzzzay Don't like the tag & don't like how it happened.

[/B]



Sounds like more than just that. Something happened.

Goes back to what I said about ignoring our personnel guys. Same shit, different regime.[/quote]

Wheres the proof Snyder had a say in this? I am sick of this crap about Snyder getting involved with the personnel decisions, give me proof this twitter crap is not reliable or do I believe just because someone says "No comment". At least we are paying our own players instead of firing up Redskins One to go get someone else, even though i dont think Rak is worth what he wants.

If I was the Redskins I would let Rak play on the one year deal and draft a OLB with the 2nd round pick and if Rak has a down year then you can let him test the market next year.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

The cost for Orakpo's contract can be balanced out when we cut Sav Rocca, Chris Chester, Stephen Bowen, and Adam Carriker.

I hope that we draft Christian Jones as the Coverage ILB to cover, freeing Rak and Kerrigan to rush.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1061352]The cost for Orakpo's contract can be balanced out when we cut Sav Rocca, Chris Chester, Stephen Bowen, and Adam Carriker.

I hope that we draft Christian Jones as the Coverage ILB to cover, freeing Rak and Kerrigan to rush.[/quote]

you get my PM?

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061353]you get my PM?[/quote]

Yea, just responded. I thought I responded earlier, my bad.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I voted yes. I do think 11mil is too much for his level of play, but I'm not worried that much about it because it is a one year deal. I think you won't find many Redskins fans that don't want Orakpo on the team. What you will find are fans that are divided about his worth as a player. I'm in the camp of not over paying for a player. Most of the elite teams out there don't overpay their talent just so they can keep them.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061348]O' rly?


[B]@HTTR24_7

No comment...RT @RunPassScore @HTTR24_7 you think Snyder had a hand in this move?


@HTTR24_7

@Royzzzay Don't like the tag & don't like how it happened.

[/B]



Sounds like more than just that. Something happened.

Goes back to what I said about ignoring our personnel guys. Same shit, different regime.[/quote]
I like #Httr24_7 and follow his stuff. He's right about a lot. And vey opinionated about it. Not just a guy spewing facts.

He came out a while ago against putting tons of money into Rak and has been fighting the Twitter battle valiantly ever since. I think he's gotten a little tunnel visioned on this one a bit Not that he's wrong philosophically but he seems way too irked by the mere notion on this this. If DS went to the mat to keep a 26 year old pro bowl LB who is one of maybe 3 decent pieces on a crap defense then I'm ok with it. He can "meddle" more to keep our good players. More than DS meddling this reeks of the FO over thinking it.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1061352]The cost for Orakpo's contract can be balanced out when we cut Sav Rocca, Chris Chester, Stephen Bowen, and Adam Carriker. [/quote]

Right. The tag was a last ditch deal that almost assuredly hasn't totally played out. I'm sure they won't be pumping the brakes too hard on negotiating a long term deal and I am even more sure there are subsequent moves to be made like diehard said to offset a bunch on this.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I voted yes. I don't think the Skins would have done it if doing so would have thrown a monkey wrench into their offseason plans. I think they'll negotiate a long-term deal that works for both sides.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1061352]The cost for Orakpo's contract can be balanced out when we cut Sav Rocca, Chris Chester, Stephen Bowen, and Adam Carriker.

I hope that we draft Christian Jones as the Coverage ILB to cover, freeing Rak and Kerrigan to rush.[/quote]

I agree all around.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Above must be the least objective poll that I have ever seen. :)

It's like, "Who would you rather have babysit your kids?
A) your BFF
B) Jeffrey Dahmer"

I happily voted yes BTW

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Lotus;1061361]Above must be the least objective poll that I have ever seen. :)

It's like, "Who would you rather have babysit your kids?
A) your BFF
B) Jeffrey Dahmer"

I happily voted yes BTW[/quote]

That's a trick question because Dahmer is dead.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Since there wasn't an option for those of us not angry nor happy I felt the bed intruder reference needed my vote.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061329]Coaches don't give a shit about the salary cap. They'll blow it all right now and fuck the future if it means winning now. (which they have to do) You don't think Haz is trying to save his ass by wanting Orakpo back? He knows his ass is on the line and he doesn't care about the cap ramifications for the future.

Also, maybe they didn't have a problem evaluating talent, but a problem with coaches listening to evaluators? That seems to be the common thing here. Vinny didn't listen. Mike didn't listen. Apparently this coaching staff isn't listening.[/quote]I mean, what's the most harmful contract they can give Orakpo? Something like 5 years/$75 million, $35 mil guaranteed. That's maybe more than his agent can get on the market, but it's not exactly a backbreaker. It's just a little over what the market would pay.

And I think that contract is less troublesome in the long run than not tagging him and letting him sign elsewhere.

There's a problem if they are arguing if his true value is $10 mil a year or $12. The market determines the players value. Letting a $10 mil player walk for $12 is pretty awful decision making. The reason to let Orakpo walk is if you didn't think he was a contributor to the team's pass rush, run defense, or pass coverage. If he's just a guy out there, you let him test the market.

But they seem to all agree he's one of the better defenders (if not the best) on the roster. And bickering over market value vs your idea of what he should be worth in an ideal world is pointless.

I'm sure some in the front office think they can do better than Orakpo, and that's a legit football evaluation, but even they have to admit that any alternative for Orakpo is going to be incredibly costly. To trade up and get Dee Ford, you're probably trading next year's first and this year's second. And you aren't even getting a consensus elite pass rusher.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Voted yes, we have enough needs - good on us not creating another and keeping one of our few strengths intact.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I voted "No. We are doomed forever now. Hide your wife and kids". If Snyder is still making decisions over his personnel people, we're doomed regardless of whether we keep Rak or not.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I don't like a lot of what I'm hearing about this situation - that there were almost no negotiations between Orakpo's camp and the skins before they just slapped him with the tag, and that there's speculation he might hold out. The only move to make is to sign him to a reasonable long-term deal this offseason in a timely fashion.

I'm sure the ravens weren't crazy about signing Joe Flacco to his insanely monstrous contract, but it was the only move they could make. Although there are numerous differences, I think we're in a similar situation here.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I'm tired of watching our guys walk outta here and get paid elsewhere, meanwhile we fall all over ourselves bringing in guys that usually don't end up being worth the $$. I think the tag was a smart move. Plus investing in your own guys sends a good message to the team.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Mattyk;1061377]I'm tired of watching our guys walk outta here and get paid elsewhere, meanwhile we fall all over ourselves bringing in guys that usually don't end up being worth the $$. I think the tag was a smart move. Plus investing in your own guys sends a good message to the team.[/quote]Yeah, at least we know Rak fits the system. Big advantage over bringing in another team's FA.

I just question whether we're overpaying Rak: Not in market value, but whether the team would be better off going with Rob Jackson and spreading the money over multiple positions.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

^ My question is how much more cap room do we need? We can probably clear another $10M fairly easily with cuts/restructures, bringing our overall room back closer to $30M.

And assuming a long term deal gets done with Rak that will lower his number for this year significantly.

Most everyone seems to be against spending big, so why do we need a huge amount of cap space?? Something in the range of $20-$30 is plenty to fill a bunch of holes providing you spend wisely.

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1061397]Yeah, at least we know Rak fits the system. Big advantage over bringing in another team's FA.

I just question whether we're overpaying Rak: Not in market value, but whether the team would be better off going with Rob Jackson and spreading the money over multiple positions.[/QUOTE]

We're we better off letting Carlos Rogers go? We're we better of letting Antonio Pierce go? We're we better of letting Fred Smoot go? We're we better off letting...

I think a change of pace is refreshing and hopefully things will improv on the field as a result. If your gonna take a gamble on a guy might as well be one of your own, not someone another team is willing to let go.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1061402]We're we better off letting Carlos Rogers go? We're we better of letting Antonio Pierce go? We're we better of letting Fred Smoot go? We're we better off letting...

I think a change of pace is refreshing and hopefully things will improv on the field as a result. If your gonna take a gamble on a guy might as well be one of your own, not someone another team is willing to let go.[/quote]None of those situations is comparable to Rak, IMO. All this is just what I read: Rogers walked because he wanted big money nobody would give him, and was so unwilling to work with the team he was even refusing coaches suggestions to get his eyes checked. Pierce signed with the Giants for just a little more money, not a big contract, we should have matched and kept him. The Vikings overpaid for Smoot, gotta let a guy walk when that happens and move on.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I'm more interested in what the long term deal might be. And I hope it doesn't handcuff our ability to keep other, arguably more important, homegrown talent.

I still would have let Rak test the market though.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061413]I'm more interested in what the long term deal might be. And I hope it doesn't handcuff our ability to keep other, arguably more important, homegrown talent.

I still would have let Rak test the market though.[/quote]

Who could it cost us? With the expansion of the cap, I have a hard time how anything but an astronomically bad long-term contract stops us from retaining important guys.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1061368]I voted "No. We are doomed forever now. Hide your wife and kids". If Snyder is still making decisions over his personnel people, we're doomed regardless of whether we keep Rak or not.[/quote]

Worst case...absolute WORST case...he sided with one side. That's not overruling. That's called being the owner.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

This is driving me crazy. What Tripp said is 100% right. The decision comes down to pay him or lose him. If he tests the market he was going to get a deal that will probably cost us more to match than just signing him long term. If he went FA he was lost. Dithering over whether to pay him 10 or 12 a year is stupid. The extra bit just isn't that big a deal. We've been operating on a BS shoestring budget for 2years and now we want to pinch pennies? Com'on man.

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1061368]I voted "No. We are doomed forever now. Hide your wife and kids". If Snyder is still making decisions over his personnel people, we're doomed regardless of whether we keep Rak or not.[/QUOTE]


Snyder had been so removed for the last few years. If the Shanahan regime did anything good for this organization it was removing DS from football decisions.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061329]Coaches don't give a shit about the salary cap. They'll blow it all right now and fuck the future if it means winning now. (which they have to do) You don't think Haz is trying to save his ass by wanting Orakpo back? He knows his ass is on the line and he doesn't care about the cap ramifications for the future.

Also, maybe they didn't have a problem evaluating talent, but a problem with coaches listening to evaluators? That seems to be the common thing here. Vinny didn't listen. Mike didn't listen. Apparently this coaching staff isn't listening.[/quote]

Switch to decaf or something...

Sure Haslett has input on who he'd like to sign but he's not the one calling the shots on contracts.