Re: Ferguson
 

@robertklemko
The mobilization and aggression of police was exponentially larger tonight. No more tolerance, apparently.

Re: Ferguson
 

Whoa pretty intense to see Klemko's timeline including an arrest and release.

Re: Ferguson
 

And now this

Ferguson, Mo., teen Michael Brown shot 6 times, mostly from distance, private autopsy finds - @nytimes [url]http://t.co/Yf2vhFQfvy[/url]

Re: Ferguson
 

People were recording the scene with their cell phone right after Brown was shot, and they now have audio of witnesses talking about how Brown charged after the cop.

Brown was not shot in the back.

Officer seemed to have sustained quite a few injuries.

Go figure the guy that received a service award for how he conducted himself on the job is a little more trustworthy than the guy stealing cigars from the store. Go figure a poor, high crime community lacks objective and unbiased people.

Go figure a bunch of racists immediately condemned the cop for murdering, slaying, etc because of the color of his skin. Go figure those same people will never understand that **they** are the racists they claim to be fighting against.

The Governor has called in the National Guard - something many people called for almost a week ago. Glad it's taken a week to get a clue about how to handle the situation.

More people being shot - not by police but by criminals using the protest and mayhem to cover their crimes.

People still think the police presence was heave handed, eh? Where's the accountability for the media? They're the ones that made the narrative and ran with it, they're the ones that put pressure on the authorities to cut down their presence.

Oh, that's right. There is no more accountability these days. Everyone gets to tell everyone else what to do with no punishment for being wrong.

Re: Ferguson
 

And still amazing how 2 people look at facts and events and still see completely different narratives and stories. Last night police had a guy on the ground zip tied and maced his face in front of a reporter. That's not heavy handed?

Re: Ferguson
 

autopsy said shot at a distance which wouldnt support shot close while wrestling for an officer's gun.

Re: Ferguson
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1077760]And still amazing how 2 people look at facts and events and still see completely different narratives and stories. Last night police had a guy on the ground zip tied and maced his face in front of a reporter. That's not heavy handed?[/QUOTE]
I don't know anything about that story - if it is as you describe, sure it seems heavy handed to mace someone after they're restrained...

That has nothing to do with anything I said in my last post though. Individual actions of cops being heavy handed has nothing to do with the demands of many for the police to scale back their show of force, or the ridiculing those people were doing, and how it directly related to more citizen-on-citizen crime, including shootings.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=Chico23231;1077761]autopsy said shot at a distance which wouldnt support shot close while wrestling for an officer's gun.[/quote]

Nope, but it does go along with the audio heard from supposed witnesses immediately after the shooting that was recently released.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=tshile;1077766]Nope, but it does go along with the audio heard from supposed witnesses immediately after the shooting that was recently released.[/quote]


I agree ,I didn't think there was a dispute with that .My question is about the reports that Brown and someone else had pushed the cop back into the patrol car and were fighting for his(cops) gun when a shot went off ?

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=Giantone;1077771]I agree ,I didn't think there was a dispute with that .My question is about the reports that Brown and someone else had pushed the cop back into the patrol car and were fighting for his(cops) gun when a shot went off ?[/quote]Update on Officer Wilson's injuries:

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/"]Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source | Fox News[/URL]

What's more interesting than this info is the fact that as of 3:20pm today CNN is choosing not to put this info on the top of its website, instead focusing on an article an officer from LAPD wrote and the public response to that.....CNN is doing nothing but fanning the flames of racism during this complete tragedy for all involved.

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/"]CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News[/URL]

Re: Ferguson
 

Yup, I turned on CNN this morning just to see how they're covering it and they're continuing to fan the flames.

This is why jumping to conclusions is dangerous. We're now seeing people that jumped to condemn the cop early pivot in many ways to try to excuse their ignorance, justify the actions of the community, or to try to keep the story alive. It's now about systemic racism from police, it's now about how it took 7 days to release the information (lol - you mean the people trained and responsible for doing a thorough and complete investigation doesn't behave like the media? you don't say...), it's now about why he shot him 6 times (the ignorance on self defense is astounding.)

So the improbable story of a young man in college fighting with a cop has become more and more likely. And the obvious story of a racist white cop that decided to kill a young black man is becoming less and less likely.

Go figure.

All these righteous people that love to opine with no facts will not apologize. They are completely ignorant of their role in tearing this community apart, they refuse to see how their bias has blinded them. None of them are going to apologize. None of them are going to learn *anything* from this situation. They'll be right back where they started the next time a white cop shoots/kills a black person.

It's a shame. This cop's career and life is probably ruined. He'll carry these false accusations for the rest of his life.

What's more worrying is the clear bias from Holder on the situation - his reaction is to say that the 'selective' release of information is 'troubling.' The lead person of the justice department has put on full display, yet again, that the color of people's skin is what matters most to him.

Yet it's white people that are racist and the cause of problems. Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

Re: Ferguson
 

[QUOTE=tshile;1078259]



It's a shame. This cop's career and life is probably ruined. He'll carry these false accusations for the rest of his life.



[/QUOTE]


It's interesting how you are allowed to have your opinion, but anyone who doesn't have your opinion shouldn't have one.

There's always two sides to every story.

To me this all comes back to my main argument with T Martin. At the end of the day a young man who was unarmed was shot to death.

There is still a lot to come out of this before we get to the end of this story. In my mind situations like this are decided in the first few seconds of the interaction. As the adult, with a gun in your possession you accept certain responsibilities. It's up to you to maintain your cool and keep the situation at hand.

And in my opinion I feel like the officer may have been a little aggressive which provoked the 18 y/o. And when the 18 y/o disrespected the officer he felt he needed to show his authority. And from there the situation got out of hand.

But I also reserve the right to change my assumptions once more facts are known. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1078263]It's interesting how you are allowed to have your opinion, but anyone who doesn't have your opinion shouldn't have one.
[/quote]
Not sure where you got that from. I'm not against having opinions - I am against being completely biased and seeing a story the way you want because it fits some worldview/agenda you have, and then pretending that doesn't exist.

If you've watched the media coverage of this there's a clear issue with agenda vs facts.


[quote=mlmdub130;1078263]
There's always two sides to every story.

To me this all comes back to my main argument with T Martin. At the end of the day a young man who was unarmed was shot to death.

There is still a lot to come out of this before we get to the end of this story. In my mind situations like this are decided in the first few seconds of the interaction. As the adult, with a gun in your possession you accept certain responsibilities. It's up to you to maintain your cool and keep the situation at hand.

And in my opinion I feel like the officer may have been a little aggressive which provoked the 18 y/o. And when the 18 y/o disrespected the officer he felt he needed to show his authority. And from there the situation got out of hand.

But I also reserve the right to change my assumptions once more facts are known. And I don't see anything wrong with that.[/quote]

If the story that the officer grabbed Brown by the throat, then by the shirt, from his vehicle and Brown stepped away, then the cop got out of his car ordered him to stop, Brown did and put his hands in the air, and then the cop shot him 6 times turns out to be true - then sure.

I'm just confused as to why that story has any legs at this point. It doesn't explain the injuries to the cop. It doesn't fit any training procedures.

The only thing it does fit is the view that cops are racist and that white cops are looking for a reason to kill black men.

There's nothing wrong with changing opinions as facts come out, that's exactly what a person should do (ideally a person would abstain from forming opinions without the necessary facts, but few do that, myself included.) Following the media on the issue shows that isn't what majority of people are doing. Not even close. Instead they're pivoting the story, ignoring new releases of information, and trying desperately to cling to the original narrative. There are many reasons for that.

If it turns out that Brown did nothing wrong and the cop was trying to assert his authority and shot an unarmed man that, other than robbing a store, did nothing wrong then I'll stand firmly behind the idea that the cop needs to be severely punished.

If it turns out that Brown in fact beat the cop as the new information suggest, that the cop did suffer fractures to his face, that Brown did charge the cop after being ordered to stop - who's going to change their mind to say that the cop was justified and that Brown was a scum bag that got what he deserved?

Who's going to agree that: hey, if the cop didn't act this way we may be talking about a good cop being beaten to death in the street?

Looking at who would answer that question in what way tells me everything I need to know about that person. Some people are interested in the facts, others are interested in pushing an agenda.

Re: Ferguson
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BviGBXHCcAANSyw.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Ferguson
 

From a different view, in terms of tinfoil hat conspiracies, it is interesting that the protest has taken the form of raising your hands and surrendering. Makes for interesting hack analysis of single photos as the images of mass surrender to police in the US are thrown around on the world wide web.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=tshile;1078264]Not sure where you got that from. I'm not against having opinions - I am against being completely biased and seeing a story the way you want because it fits some worldview/agenda you have, and then pretending that doesn't exist.

If you've watched the media coverage of this there's a clear issue with agenda vs facts.




If the story that the officer grabbed Brown by the throat, then by the shirt, from his vehicle and Brown stepped away, then the cop got out of his car ordered him to stop, Brown did and put his hands in the air, and then the cop shot him 6 times turns out to be true - then sure.

I'm just confused as to why that story has any legs at this point. It doesn't explain the injuries to the cop. It doesn't fit any training procedures.

The only thing it does fit is the view that cops are racist and that white cops are looking for a reason to kill black men.

There's nothing wrong with changing opinions as facts come out, that's exactly what a person should do (ideally a person would abstain from forming opinions without the necessary facts, but few do that, myself included.) Following the media on the issue shows that isn't what majority of people are doing. Not even close. Instead they're pivoting the story, ignoring new releases of information, and trying desperately to cling to the original narrative. There are many reasons for that.

If it turns out that Brown did nothing wrong and the cop was trying to assert his authority and shot an unarmed man that, other than robbing a store, did nothing wrong then I'll stand firmly behind the idea that the cop needs to be severely punished.

If it turns out that Brown in fact beat the cop as the new information suggest, that the cop did suffer fractures to his face, that Brown did charge the cop after being ordered to stop - who's going to change their mind to say that the cop was justified and that Brown was a scum bag that got what he deserved?

Who's going to agree that: hey, if the cop didn't act this way we may be talking about a good cop being beaten to death in the street?

Looking at who would answer that question in what way tells me everything I need to know about that person. Some people are interested in the facts, others are interested in pushing an agenda.[/quote]

Lotta "If"s in your response. you would think it would be hard to base a definitive opinion based on that many "if"s or "maybe"s

Re: Ferguson
 

Well, those seem to be the two main competing narratives coming out. The other option is withholding judgement, but those people aren't doing anything wrong nor are the the subject of my criticism :)

It's the story the people telling us it's all about racism are spouting. I'm putting if's in front of them because I still believe there's a chance they're right - the chance dwindles with every new piece of information, but we still haven't seen an official report or heard the grand jury's decision, so it's certainly still a possibility.

I'm putting if's in front of the officer's story for the same reasons.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=tshile;1078266][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BviGBXHCcAANSyw.jpg[/IMG][/quote]What a crew here:
[B][I]Akbar Muhammad[/I][/B] (international rep of Farrakhan) should maybe listen to the own words from the Qur'an posted on Final Call:
[I]“O you who believe, if an unrighteous man brings you news, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you did.” [/I][B]—Holy Qur'an Surah 49:6 [/B]Rather than rush to judgement. This guy won't denounce Boko Haram...nuff said.

[B][I]Malik Zulu Shabazz[/I][/B] - Black Lawyers for Justice....nice to see he's decided to attempt to cover his racist and anti-Semitic past and publicly disassociate with the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panther Party. Google some of his past [I]extremely[/I] racist and anti-Semitic statements.

The New Black Panther Party....when the even the Southern Poverty Law Center and the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights consider these guys a hate group, again...that says it all.

Re: Ferguson
 

did you see the members of the new black panther party starting chants? they went like this:

who do we want?

darren wilson

how do we want him?

dead

sounds like a group of good guys.

Re: Ferguson
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/politics/justice-report-ferguson-discrimination/index.html]Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson - CNN.com[/url]

Re: Ferguson
 

[URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/12/us-usa-missouri-shooting-protest-idUSKBN0M80CJ20150312"]Ambush of policemen triggers manhunt in racially tense Ferguson[/URL]

Guess this is payback for racist email jokes, and stats of poor people getting busted more for day to day crimes. Because in no way did the justice report enflame things.

I think it would have been better to indict people who committed racist acts, instead of making a blanket statement that basically amounts to "these cops are pigs".

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1109254][URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/12/us-usa-missouri-shooting-protest-idUSKBN0M80CJ20150312"]Ambush of policemen triggers manhunt in racially tense Ferguson[/URL]

Guess this is payback for racist email jokes, and stats of poor people getting busted more for day to day crimes. Because in no way did the justice report enflame things.

I think it would have been better to indict people who committed racist acts, instead of making a blanket statement that basically amounts to "these cops are pigs".[/quote]


If you think this is about emails you are brain dead. This is about a race of people under siege in their own town, by their own police force. I know everything in the world is Obama's or Eric Holder's fault, but what did you want more cover up?

It was widespread and systemic. Damn near every cop participated or knew about it. That report had to come out.

Killing a cop is wrong, but they are partly to blame. If you treat people like they are the enemy, don't act surprised when they start acting like it.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=Hijinx;1109439]If you think this is about emails you are brain dead. This is about a race of people under siege in their own town, by their own police force. I know everything in the world is Obama's or Eric Holder's fault, but what did you want more cover up? [/quote]Lol, emails were described as a primary concern listed in the report.

Disproportionate arrest statistics is under siege? What do you call looting and shooting people done by the rioters in protests?

[quote=Hijinx;1109439]It was widespread and systemic. Damn near every cop participated or knew about it. That report had to come out. [/quote]Politically incorrect email jokes, and stats that african americans are getting pulled more than other ethnicities there. The stats should be investigated more, and appropriate disciplinary action on the emails. But no, let's paint everyone in Ferguson PD with a broad brush. Should we call all protestors rioters too?

[quote=Hijinx;1109439]Killing a cop is wrong, but they are partly to blame. If you treat people like they are the enemy, don't act surprised when they start acting like it.[/quote]It's horrifying to see a fellow redskin fan try to justify murder! Seriously, WTF, dude!

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=Hijinx;1109439]

Killing a cop is wrong, but they are partly to blame. If you treat people like they are the enemy, don't act surprised when they start acting like it.[/quote]


Then Mr. Brown is as much to blame as anyone .The man tried to reach into a Police car and take a Police officer's gun,Really ???

Re: Ferguson
 

not ferguson but baltimore.

i didnt realize the riots got that bad. we went to horseshoe casino and our taxi guy had to go through the north part of the city.

we were in a cab coming back across downtown to go home and our cab guy went north around the violence.

i live in the city, this has potential to blow up.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALE2ehBTedE[/url]

rioters squaring off with orioles fans right outside camden?

[url=http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/media-fail-to-identify-leader-of-baltimore-riots/]Media fail to identify leader of Baltimore riots[/url]

^^ link to the purported non-baltimore guy who is inciting violence. when he
told the crown as he released them to "shut it down" he said he only meant civil disobedience and not violence.

shabazz maliq - get the eff out of baltimore. you are not helping.

i could have easily been there. we were a few blocks away as is.

these kids need to realize attacking other baltimorians is not cool.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDeZL0SUgAAI8Pt.jpg[/IMG]

bloods, crips and the black panthers together in baltimore. geez louis man.

reported that the crips and bloods of baltimore have pulled their "dont target cops" agreement.

Re: Ferguson
 

they are supposed to announce whether or not charges will be filed friday . . . . black panther "shut it down" rally on saturday .... . . i live a few blocks from perkins homes and douglas homes. projects built exactly like the one gray was from. i live maybe 10 blocks from downtown. we walk to downtown all the time.

Re: Ferguson
 

[url=http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-live-protesters-clash-with-police-in-baltimore-3/]Baltimore Protests Police Killing Freddie Gray WATCH LIVE | Mediaite[/url]

live footage.

the riots are popping up all over ... it is not downtown but in neighborhoods .. reisterstown road, gwynn falls .. thats north

flyers went out to high school kids called the purge calling for destruction at 3 pm?

wtf i am sooo mad soo disappointed. sooo sad.

im leaving baltimore.

Re: Ferguson
 

[quote=over the mountain;1111691][url=http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-live-protesters-clash-with-police-in-baltimore-3/]Baltimore Protests Police Killing Freddie Gray WATCH LIVE | Mediaite[/url]

live footage.

the riots are popping up all over ... it is not downtown but in neighborhoods .. reisterstown road, gwynn falls .. thats north

flyers went out to high school kids called the purge calling for destruction at 3 pm?

wtf i am sooo mad soo disappointed. sooo sad.

im leaving baltimore.[/quote]

Damn son Baltimore is going crazy right now. Blame the police IMO. keep safe up there otm.

Re: Ferguson
 

The police have shown incredible restraint. Lots of abuse hurled at them. Seven injured.

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Re: Ferguson
 

Businesses being looted and burned.

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