Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1096028]You know what? Here's what I constantly tell my (white) son:

If you are being stopped by the police, do what they say. Don't argue, don't contradict them, don't think to yourself "He can't tell me that" - particularly if there is any reason to suspect that the cop thinks you or the situation poses danger. De-escalate first by doing exactly what he/she says. Make sure the officer sees you complying and, if necessary tell him what you are doing and how you are intending to do it and then ask him for permission. Make no sudden moves!! If the officer says not to do something, then don't do it - even it means standing there and pissing your pants.

[B]The officer has a badge, a gun, and the inherent right to be confrontational - you do not!![/B]

I don't care if he insults your manhood and calls you every dirty name in the book (Which by the way, happened to me in my teen years - more than once. I grew up in PG County in the 70's/80's - need I say more?). No matter how he provokes you, say and do nothing that could be deemed an aggressive action. Shut up, take it, and return indignity with civility. Do everything in your power to get to the end of the tunnel until you can call me, a lawyer or peacefully appeal to a judge. Until then, the officer has complete, unchallengable authority - act accordingly.

BTW - When I was 16, my dad told me the same damn thing after I got picked up and taken to the station for not doing exactly what the cop told me to do, the second he told me to do it. [Picking up litter I dropped as the officer happened to be driving by - I did or said something to piss him off, don't even remember what, just know my first response was nothing akin to "Yes Sir!"]

Every parent needs to have this conversation with their kids. Period. I KNOW that there are bad cops - particularly, bad beat cops. I get that there are racist cops out there. With that said, it's the bad cops to whom you need to "Listen & Obey" the most because they are the ones looking for an excuse to abuse you AND will be the ones most experienced at covering it up.

Obey first, seek redress later. AND, recognize you may never get the redress to which you believe you are entitled. It's not right, it's not fair but it's life. At the appropriate time, and in the appropriate manner, try to change it.[/quote]


Well said ,you need to go on tour .

No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1096028]You know what? Here's what I constantly tell my (white) son:



If you are being stopped by the police, do what they say. Don't argue, don't contradict them, don't think to yourself "He can't tell me that" - particularly if there is any reason to suspect that the cop thinks you or the situation something, then don't do it - even it means standing there and pissing your pants.



[B]The officer has a badge, a gun, and the inherent right to be confrontational - you do not!![/B]



[/QUOTE]


So you tell your son he should sit there and piss his pants because the officer had the inherent right to be confrontational? Sorry but that doesn't fly. No one has the inherent right to be confrontational and that's the main problem in my eyes.

My belief is that at the end of the day these are kids, and it is up to the officer of the law to be responsible for keeping control of the situation. After all that is what their job is all about. It's to protect and serve, not harass and embarrass.

With this situation in Ferguson I think the officer failed his job when he got into the initial confrontation with Brown. He felt the need to establish dominance over the younger Brown. Brown being young and not really understanding the totality of his actions decided he wasn't going to be "punked" by some cop.

Both parties acted poorly in this instance, but I believe it's the officers responsibility to maintain his emotions and not let the situation get the better of him. He failed to do so and thus here we are, another youth shot dead from a simple misunderstanding and miscommunication.

I hope at the end of the day some good comes from this and the Brown's family wishes come true and all police officers are mandated to wear a camera on their person.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1096404]So you tell your son he should sit there and piss his pants because the officer had the inherent right to be confrontational? Sorry but that doesn't fly. No one has the inherent right to be confrontational and that's the main problem in my eyes.

My belief is that at the end of the day these are kids, and it is up to the officer of the law to be responsible for keeping control of the situation. After all that is what their job is all about. It's to protect and serve, not harass and embarrass.

With this situation in Ferguson I think the officer failed his job when he got into the initial confrontation with Brown. He felt the need to establish dominance over the younger Brown. Brown being young and not really understanding the totality of his actions decided he wasn't going to be "punked" by some cop.

Both parties acted poorly in this instance, but I believe it's the officers responsibility to maintain his emotions and not let the situation get the better of him. He failed to do so and thus here we are, another youth shot dead from a simple misunderstanding and miscommunication.

I hope at the end of the day some good comes from this and the Brown's family wishes come true and all police officers are mandated to wear a camera on their person.[/quote]what the heck? Being non-confrontational = pissing pants? Attitudes like not wanting to get "punked" when confronted by someone, are childish and may have gotten Brown killed. What you describe is Brown's fault. Not the officer.

Cant stand being harrassed and embarrased, and not mature enough to handle it without getting physical? Thats troubled child in elementary school behavior, not average high school or older behavior.

Agreed on one thing: GoPros. Protect the good cops and expose the bad cops.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1096404]So you tell your son he should sit there and piss his pants because the officer had the inherent right to be confrontational? Sorry but that doesn't fly. No one has the inherent right to be confrontational and that's the main problem in my eyes.

My belief is that at the end of the day these are kids, and it is up to the officer of the law to be responsible for keeping control of the situation. After all that is what their job is all about. It's to protect and serve, not harass and embarrass.

With this situation in Ferguson I think the officer failed his job when he got into the initial confrontation with Brown. He felt the need to establish dominance over the younger Brown. Brown being young and not really understanding the totality of his actions decided he wasn't going to be "punked" by some cop.

Both parties acted poorly in this instance, but I believe it's the officers responsixbility to maintain his emotions and not let the situation get the better of him. He failed to do so and thus here we are, another youth shot dead from a simple misunderstanding and miscommunication.

I hope at the end of the day some good comes from this and the Brown's family wishes come true and all police officers are mandated to wear a camera on their person.[/quote]

This. Well said

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

And another thing, Micheal Brown was 18. Are people saying he's not mature enough to [URL="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/28/1339820/-What-Mike-Brown-did-and-did-not-do-inside-of-the-Ferguson-convenience-store"]refrain from shoplifting[/URL] and [URL="http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/"]getting into a fight with a cop afterwards[/URL]?

The poor kid shot by the police is on the left, the shop clerk is on the right.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/D3fgDIB.jpg[/IMG]

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

I understand not bringing charges, but I am surprised. I expected them to consider the mixed testimony enough to take this to trial, if not just to appease the people. I understand not wanting that circus around. Not taking a stance on right or wrong, just a thought.

Joe, when it comes down to your advice in dealing with officers given to your son, I have one issue. Being a lawyer, I'd think you'd also make sure he understood his rights and when to refuse officers. Never let them search your car. Never tell them anything more than basic information. Never give them your phone passwords and I'd recommend encrypting and powering off your device.
(Note: The police can force a biometric (e.g. fingerprint) out of you for your phone, but cannot force a passcode. Additionally, if you use an android phone Google can provide law enforcement the pattern you use, even if encrypted. Go with the numeric pin.)

Lastly, I hope that this case is still the impetus for some real changes to our police force. Personally, it scares me that their word is always taken as the truth in a court of law. I want to see body cameras on every officer with hefty penalties for the device being "broken" or "malfunctioning" during a controversial stop. These cameras quell the crazy on both sides of it. It'll help the officers keep their cool during stressful situations and will reduce citizens being aggressive towards police officers. We've been spending decades militarizing our police force - it's time to bring them back to being public servants.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Daseal;1096524]I understand not bringing charges, but I am surprised. I expected them to consider the mixed testimony enough to take this to trial, if not just to appease the people. I understand not wanting that circus around. Not taking a stance on right or wrong, just a thought.
s.[/quote]


If you understand why they are not bringing charges ,then why take it to court , just to sacrifice a police officer to keep the others happy ?

So you would be fine if the kid had gotten the cops gun and shot him ?

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1096533]If you understand why they are not bringing charges ,then why take it to court , just to sacrifice a police officer to keep the others happy ?

So you would be fine if the kid had gotten the cops gun and shot him ?[/quote]

GiantOne - First of all, stop making huge jumps. He didn't get his gun. He didn't shoot him. Hopefully we can all agree that no one should die in these situations.

Second of all, I understand that there was evidence showing that perhaps the officer may have actually felt in legitimate fear for his life, however, there are other pieces of evidence that show perhaps he overstepped his bounds. I understand why they didn't, but could also see them bringing charges. I feel if there are two potential stories it's best to send it to court and allow the evidence to be viewed and questioned by both parties.

I don't trust eye witness accounts unless 85% of them are all consistent with each other. I also do not trust the officers word one lick. He's in self-preservation mode and we've shown a clear precedent for not going after officers that perjure themselves.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Daseal;1096570]GiantOne - First of all, stop making huge jumps. He didn't get his gun. He didn't shoot him. Hopefully we can all agree that no one should die in these situations.

Second of all, I understand that there was evidence showing that perhaps the officer may have actually felt in legitimate fear for his life, however, there are other pieces of evidence that show perhaps he overstepped his bounds. I understand why they didn't, but could also see them bringing charges. I feel if there are two potential stories it's best to send it to court and allow the evidence to be viewed and questioned by both parties.

I don't trust eye witness accounts unless 85% of them are all consistent with each other. I also do not trust the officers word one lick. He's in self-preservation mode and we've shown a clear precedent for not going after officers that perjure themselves.[/quote]


So a man ,6'4 300 ,reaches into a police car and struggles with the Police Officer for his gun(there is no question about this) and proof that the gun was fired in the car (no question) you think there "might be a legitimate fear" for his life ?My question to you is if the cop was dead would you care or would you be talking about this right now .You say you don't trust eyewitness accounts all but one pretty much match the "physical evidence" ,do you trust that ?

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1096600]So a man ,6'4 300 ,reaches into a police car and struggles with the Police Officer for his gun(there is no question about this) and proof that the gun was fired in the car (no question) you think there "might be a legitimate fear" for his life ?My question to you is if the cop was dead would you care or would you be talking about this right now .You say you don't trust eyewitness accounts all but one pretty much match the "physical evidence" ,do you trust that ?[/quote]

I have two points. One, I think there was enough to go to trial. I think the officer is let free on trial, but would have liked to see the opportunity for both sides to review and question the evidence at hand. We clearly don't agree there - that's okay.

Second. I want to use this as an impetus for change. I want every cop wearing a camera that's running at all times with a microphone. I want massive penalties to either the cop or his superiors if the cameras are not working or disabled at the time of any action. These are the types of technologies we have at our disposal and are generally pretty cheap. Stop buying assault vehicles for no-knock raids - and buy things to protect the vast majority of Americans. Our police forces are being militarized and they need to be brought back to being public defenders.

If the officer was shot, yes, I would feel bad for him and it wouldn't change my stance on changing oversight and documenting their actions. As I said, point one and point two are not directly related in this case. However, the more we see cases with differing eye witness reviews it would have easily shown the conflict through the eyes of the officer eliminating any potential issues with what happened.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1096600]So a man ,6'4 300 ,reaches into a police car and struggles with the Police Officer for his gun(there is no question about this) and proof that the gun was fired in the car (no question) you think there "might be a legitimate fear" for his life ?My question to you is if the cop was dead would you care or would you be talking about this right now .You say you don't trust eyewitness accounts all but one pretty much match the "physical evidence" ,do you trust that ?[/quote]

the lethal force was used when mike brown was 100 to 150 yards (or feet?) away.

if a person has a stick, an officer gets "in fear of their life" and kills the stick holder with 15 shots.

is a black guy holding a stick objectively more dangerous than a white guy?

the stats say overwhelmingly yes when we know common sense says it should absolutely not matter.

but race does matter in this country with all races contributing to the problem. with all races also contributing to trying to make a positive change.

from what little i know of this particular incident, i dont think the office should have been indicted. in a confrontational situation, i dont know how i would react and dont want to play judge and think i would be calm and rational. of course i havent been trained to handle high stress confrontations and how to use a hand gun and dont get paid good money to do so day-in-day-out but .. .

imo the protests arent necessarily about the facts of mike brown but the alarming statistic of black men/teens killed by police officers.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=over the mountain;1097203]the lethal force was used when mike brown was 100 to 150 yards (or feet?) away.

if a person has a stick, an officer gets "in fear of their life" and kills the stick holder with 15 shots.

is a black guy holding a stick objectively more dangerous than a white guy?

the stats say overwhelmingly yes when we know common sense says it should absolutely not matter.

but race does matter in this country with all races contributing to the problem. with all races also contributing to trying to make a positive change.

from what little i know of this particular incident, i dont think the office should have been indicted. in a confrontational situation, i dont know how i would react and dont want to play judge and think i would be calm and rational. of course i havent been trained to handle high stress confrontations and how to use a hand gun and dont get paid good money to do so day-in-day-out but .. .

imo the protests arent necessarily about the facts of mike brown but the alarming statistic of black men/teens killed by police officers.[/quote]If the cop shot Brown from 100 yds away with a handgun, sign that man up to our olympic team in biathlon or any shooting competition! LOL.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]N.Y. cop not indicted in choke hold death - CNN.com[/url]

Un-f*cking-belivable

If i was up in staten isl...i wouldnt hit the steet protesting...id just get a crew of people and about 3am tonight, get a bunch of molatov cocktails, light them, and proceed to firebomb multiple police stations around the area.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1097405]If the cop shot Brown from 100 yds away with a handgun, sign that man up to our olympic team in biathlon or any shooting competition! LOL.[/quote]

he took about 8 shots ...

chico -- that is unbelievable. these prosecutors can get an indictment or not get an indictment if they want. sealed proceedings, any info comes in even if it would be inadmissible at trial, no right to counsel inside the doors etc ...

that NY case is what should be leading this discussion, not mike browns (with all due respect) .. id love to hear what rush, palin etc say about that one.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=over the mountain;1097510]he took about 8 shots ...[/quote]Do you think Brown ran 100 yards away from the cop? [URL="http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/"]LINK[/URL]

And hitting someone once from 100 yds away with a 8 shots of a normal handgun would still be impressive.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1096600]So a man ,6'4 300 ,reaches into a police car and struggles with the Police Officer for his gun(there is no question about this) and proof that the gun was fired in the car (no question) you think there "might be a legitimate fear" for his life ? [B]My question to you is if the cop was dead would you care or would you be talking about this right now[/B] .You say you don't trust eyewitness accounts all but one pretty much match the "physical evidence" ,do you trust that ?[/quote]

If the cop was dead, Mike Brown would be on death row right now.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

Also, is anyone still sure that Brown had his hands up when he was shot? Or could the whole "hands up, don't shoot" thing have been a lie?

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1097543]Also, is anyone still sure that Brown had his hands up when he was shot? Or could the whole "hands up, don't shoot" thing have been a lie?[/quote]

U think its ok for the police to choke a man to death on the sidewalk for selling cigarettes? I hope those folks burn down every police station in nyc.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097546]U think its ok for the police to choke a man to death on the sidewalk for selling cigarettes? I hope those folks burn down every police station in nyc.[/quote]Another strawman argument, like the Micheal Brown "100 yds away" and "hands up don't shoot". Garner was a big fat ashmatic guy saying "I can't breathe" while being held down and handcuffed. This is after the chokehold/headlock was used when officer in question was trying to take him down like a lion hanging off a buffalo.

The issue should be over taking care of a suspect after being handcuffed, not whether the chokehold/head lock was needed. But so many things seem to get distorted so easy, smh.

And c'mon Chico, you seemed better than your last sentence.

edit: [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo"] LINK[/URL]

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097546]U think its ok for the police to choke a man to death on the sidewalk for selling cigarettes? [/quote]



.........and resisting arrest ,had he not done that he would have been out of jail in hours and still alive .

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

Some people in this thread need to read this ........,and think a long time .


[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-grand-jury-documents-show-inconsistencies-in-witness-testimony/]Ferguson grand jury documents show inconsistencies in witness testimony - CBS News[/url]

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1097568].........and resisting arrest ,had he not done that he would have been out of jail in hours and still alive .[/quote]

This isn't bogato Columbia. The medical examiner said homicide.

If this guy is white in a Connecticut suburb and resisted, is he dead? Our way of thinking where this is ok crazy. This isn't michael brown, this is much much worse IMO.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1097543]Also, is anyone still sure that Brown had his hands up when he was shot? Or could the whole "hands up, don't shoot" thing have been a lie?[/quote]

My official stance on Mike Brown

The Ferguson police department is on par with racist, corrupt deparments in the deep south of the 50s and 60s. They have a history of harrassment, racial profiling, racism and overt aggression towards minorities.

The prosecutor is biased with a history of not prosecuting any wrong doings of the police department and looking the other way letting the police department do what they want. He's an enabler and most likely a racist as well.

Most certainly Fergonson should have been a special prosecutor brought in for Browns case. This was the pivotal mistake. The Attorny General for the state should be ashamed.

Michael Brown did attack the police officer imo. Was the level of violence he recieved for that attack justified? God only knows, my guess with 10 shots fired, probably not. I think multiple witnesses lied about the hands up dont shoot.

Because of the history of racism and corruptness within the Fergeson PD, I cant believe the officer's story. He does have a history before Browns with multiple problems of harrassment and aggression with the community.

I dont think this was properly vetted and he should at least had an indictment brought against him.

With the NY incident, thats just murder point blank. A cop murdered someone on the streets of New York with his hands. The medical examiner agrees and marked homicide with a cause of death. Look at the video. The cop is way over aggressive and choked him to death. There can be no arguement the other way.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

we disagree pretty much on the brown case. on the garner case, in the video most peopke use where half the screen is blocked off, it looked to me like he didn't complain about not being able to breathe until he was on the ground face down and they didnt have an arm around his neck,. But just saw a link on a New York paper that the coroner said there were issues with the compression of his neck and chest, leading to homicide ruling. I thought they should have indicted the police anyways for negligence leaving the guy down not able to breathe but looks like now they should have indicted the officer that put on the choke hold.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1097569]Some people in this thread need to read this ........,and think a long time .


[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-grand-jury-documents-show-inconsistencies-in-witness-testimony/]Ferguson grand jury documents show inconsistencies in witness testimony - CBS News[/url][/quote]

I think you are missing the point that the standards of police treatment for some groups of people in this country are different compared to others.

I don't know what your background is and if you're not a person of color, I don't expect you to understand what is like to be a person of color in this country even during these times.

The same way that I as a male will very likely never what is like to be a woman during time when you see rapes happening all the time and there being a culture where in some cases it is not seen as a big deal (see UVA case).

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097596]My official stance on Mike Brown

The Ferguson police department is on par with racist, corrupt deparments in the deep south of the 50s and 60s. They have a history of harrassment, racial profiling, racism and overt aggression towards minorities.

The prosecutor is biased with a history of not prosecuting any wrong doings of the police department and looking the other way letting the police department do what they want. He's an enabler and most likely a racist as well.

Most certainly Fergonson should have been a special prosecutor brought in for Browns case. This was the pivotal mistake. The Attorny General for the state should be ashamed.[/quote]


I agree with this 100%.


[quote=Chico23231;1097596]With the NY incident, thats just murder point blank. A cop murdered someone on the streets of New York with his hands. The medical examiner agrees and marked homicide with a cause of death. Look at the video. The cop is way over aggressive and choked him to death. There can be no arguement the other way.[/quote]


No idea how you can have video evidence of a cop choking out a man and not bringing an indictment on him. That place should be burned to the ground.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/politics/rand-paul-eric-garner-taxes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Rand Paul blames Garner's death on NYC cigarette tax - CNN.com[/url]

This guy is a certified moron. The cigarette tax killed Garner?...jeez this country

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1097568].........and resisting arrest ,had he not done that he would have been out of jail in hours and still alive .[/quote]

So you think it is OK for police to choke someone that is unarmed to death for resisting arrest?

Resisting Arrest is not the same thing as posing a threat to a Police Officer's life.

It is depressing how low our society has become now that resisting arrest while not posing any threat to the livelihood of a police officer gives that police officer the license to choke a man to death.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=donofriose;1097634]So you think it is OK for police to choke someone that is unarmed to death for resisting arrest?

.[/quote]



...............where did I ever say that ,so you are saying if he did exactly what he was told he still be dead ,right ?

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097590]This isn't bogato Columbia. The medical examiner said homicide.

If this guy is white in a Connecticut suburb and resisted, is he dead? Our way of thinking where this is ok crazy. This isn't michael brown, this is much much worse IMO.[/quote]
It happened in Va. last year , this white male did have his hands up ...
[url=http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/springfield/2014/12/04/john-geer-fairfax-county-police-shooting/19904387/]Family wants answers in Va. shooting by cop[/url] . So did this white kid with down syndrome ,....[url=http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/10/17/robert-ethan-saylor-police-death-lawsuit-frederick-county-md/17425615/]Lawsuit moves forward in death of Ethan Saylor[/url] .

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097622][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/politics/rand-paul-eric-garner-taxes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1"]Rand Paul blames Garner's death on NYC cigarette tax - CNN.com[/URL]

This guy is a certified moron. The cigarette tax killed Garner?...jeez this country[/quote]
I don't agree with Paul , however NYC mayor did create an " Ill. Cig. Task Force " .....
[url=http://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-strike-force-crack-down-illegal-cigarette-and-tobacco-trafficking]Governor Cuomo Announces New Strike Force to Crack Down on Illegal Cigarette and Tobacco Trafficking and Sales | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo[/url]. The cop should have never used an " air choke ",banned by NYPD for a reason . R.I.P. Mr Garner .

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097602]I think you are missing the point that the standards of police treatment for some groups of people in this country are different compared to others.

I don't know what your background is and if you're not a person of color, I don't expect you to understand what is like to be a person of color in this country even during these times.

).[/quote]


First and foremost , there are shitty Cops out there and I fully agree things can and should be handle differently .We are all people of color the law is the law and police are there to enforce the law ,Mo and NY are 2 different situations the only thing similar is both guys had broken the law (allegedly) and resisted arrest .In the Brown case he initiated the confrontation by reaching into the police car and going for the cops gun (all facts) .In Garner's case the dumb ass Cop use a illegal choke hold where many other tactics would have worked considering there were many officers there I don't get it .I still maintain that both were doing something illegal and had they listen to the police and do what was told .....as all people should do they would be alive ,I'm from the same school as JR ,kiss ass to you are out then fight it in court .So I'll ask the question since people just want to burn everything down,are people of color ....above the law ,you own a gas station in town and "the people burn it down" ...is that ok ?

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1097669]...............where did I ever say that ,so you are saying if he did exactly what he was told he still be dead ,right ?[/quote]

So if we don't do exactly what authority figures say... we deserve to die.

I agree he should have listened. But not listening does not mean he deserved to be killed.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Giantone;1097706]First and foremost , there are shitty Cops out there and I fully agree things can and should be handle differently .We are all people of color the law is the law and police are there to enforce the law ,Mo and NY are 2 different situations the only thing similar is both guys had broken the law (allegedly) and resisted arrest .In the Brown case he initiated the confrontation by reaching into the police car and going for the cops gun (all facts) .In Garner's case the dumb ass Cop use a illegal choke hold where many other tactics would have worked considering there were many officers there I don't get it .I still maintain that both were doing something illegal and had they listen to the police and do what was told .....as all people should do they would be alive ,I'm from the same school as JR ,kiss ass to you are out then fight it in court .So I'll ask the question since people just want to burn everything down,are people of color ....above the law ,you own a gas station in town and "the people burn it down" ...is that ok ?[/quote]

So if I dont kiss ass I should suffer the consequences? NO

I treat everyone with respect and I expect the samething from everyone including a police officer. To think you have to kiss someone ass in order to get favorable treatment...Bullshit. These fucking cops need to read the fucking constitution.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=budw38;1097672]It happened in Va. last year , this white male did have his hands up ...
[url=http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/springfield/2014/12/04/john-geer-fairfax-county-police-shooting/19904387/]Family wants answers in Va. shooting by cop[/url] . So did this white kid with down syndrome ,....[url=http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/10/17/robert-ethan-saylor-police-death-lawsuit-frederick-county-md/17425615/]Lawsuit moves forward in death of Ethan Saylor[/url] .[/quote]

So you agree a national problem? How a police chief killing an unarmed man: [url=http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sc-cop-charged-murder-unarmed-man-shooting-27362718]White Ex-Cop Charged in Killing of Black Man in SC - ABC News[/url]

Or how about a police officer shooting a killing a 12 year old with a bb gun. Now we learn this cop had maturity issues doing his job and had a problem handling stress: [url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/justice/cleveland-police-officer-timothy-loehmann/]Cop who shot Tamir Rice called 'distracted and weepy' - CNN.com[/url]

Think to yourself if this was your son or grandson...what would your reaction be? Now think, this isnt a problem in other places...this is a "Main Street" issue meaning you better look in your own community who holds a badge and a gun. Its your tax money paying for it

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

the baltimore lighting festival of baltimore's washington monument was on tv last night and we were watching and my lady and i started talking about garner, brown etc and all the race crap she has been reading online and even from her own friends telling her to "not pull the race card" etc ..

she told me last week she and my daughter were waiting to cross the street. we live right in downtown baltimore, not alabama or iowa.

she sd this woman walked by her and said "did my money pay for that purse or did yours?". she was carrying a large coach purse i got her for christmas 3 years ago. a guy joined the lady and he sd something about taxes and welfare. my lady stood in disbelief and didnt say anything.

i dont understand this push from neo-conservatives and tea party people thinking there is an actual race war going on in america and how they need to take up arms against "the war against christmas" or "the war against traditional marriage" .....


why would a complete strange feel like they could talk down unsolicited to a 35 year mother doing nothing but dressed respectable and waiting to cross the street with the cutest 2 year old genetics could make?

in 2014 in the holiday season in baltimore city . .. . wtf.

edit -

read these unprovoked racist comments from tea party and neo-cons re a basketball game .... and they wonder why most of america thinks theyre racist lol ... i actually agree w glenn beck on many points but man, conservatives are mostly racist driven policies imo

[url=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/05/college-basketball-player-wont-win-any-sportsmanship-trophies-after-this-last-second-stunt/]College Basketball Player Won’t Win Any Sportsmanship Trophies After This Last-Second Stunt | Video | TheBlaze.com[/url]

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097729]So you agree a national problem? How a police chief killing an unarmed man: [URL="http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sc-cop-charged-murder-unarmed-man-shooting-27362718"]White Ex-Cop Charged in Killing of Black Man in SC - ABC News[/URL]

Or how about a police officer shooting a killing a 12 year old with a bb gun. Now we learn this cop had maturity issues doing his job and had a problem handling stress: [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/justice/cleveland-police-officer-timothy-loehmann/"]Cop who shot Tamir Rice called 'distracted and weepy' - CNN.com[/URL]

Think to yourself if this was your son or grandson...what would your reaction be? Now think, this isnt a problem in other places...this is a "Main Street" issue meaning you better look in your own community who holds a badge and a gun. Its your tax money paying for it[/quote]
Im all for police being treated the same as " civilians " when it comes to being charged , tried and convicted . Nobody wants the police to act as Judge /Jury /Exec' . As far as shooting an unarmed civilian ,that depends on the situation ,as it should for us . Unarmed man breaks into a woman's home @ 2am .... she has a right to defend herself , even using deadly force . As far as the 13 yr old .... very sad and tragic . What were his parents doing .... they let him run around with a BBG that looks real ???
Of course any of us would be hurt / upset with the death of a family member shot by police . However , the problem starts with " us ". If " we " have this attitude that we can commit certain crimes and can't be arrested , beat ( by home/bus owner or cop ) , or maybe even shot , that is the cause /problem in most cases of police shootings . I have yet to hear one report of a cop just shooting someone without either responding to a call or being in a scuffle . Again ,it is sad and tragic when someone loses life .

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=budw38;1097747]Im all for police being treated the same as " civilians " when it comes to being charged , tried and convicted . Nobody wants the police to act as Judge /Jury /Exec' . As far as shooting an unarmed civilian ,that depends on the situation ,as it should for us . Unarmed man breaks into a woman's home @ 2am .... she has a right to defend herself , even using deadly force . As far as the 13 yr old .... very sad and tragic . What were his parents doing .... they let him run around with a BBG that looks real ???
Of course any of us would be hurt / upset with the death of a family member shot by police . However , the problem starts with " us ". If " we " have this attitude that we can commit certain crimes and can't be arrested , beat ( by home/bus owner or cop ) , or maybe even shot , that is the cause /problem in most cases of police shootings . I have yet to hear one report of a cop just shooting someone without either responding to a call or being in a scuffle . Again ,it is sad and tragic when someone loses life .[/quote]

[url=http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-tamir-rice-video-20141126-story.html]Video released of police fatally shooting 12-year-old Tamir Rice - LA Times[/url]

The caller who reported the child with the "gun" said to the dispatcher "the gun was probably a fake"

So on the video just watch the last 30 seconds to see how the police investigated to see if the gun was a fake.

I dont know about you, i had a bb gun when i was 12 which looked just like a .22 rifle. I dont see the difference. Its a known fact bb guns mimic real guns.

Maybe you would be in favor of gun legislation that read bb guns should not mimic real guns. Maybe make them all in the color of pink? I think i would be down with that. Might change the perception of having a gun is cool if they are all pink?


I dont want to impede a policeman job, but I want to (like the Skins) change the culture within some departments which may allow certain things. I think a good start would be requirement for the Cops to wear cameras to protect them and for training.

But your bottomline is correct, anytime someone loses their life, whether its a policeman in the line of fire, criminal, or the innocent...its tragic.

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097749][URL="http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-tamir-rice-video-20141126-story.html"]Video released of police fatally shooting 12-year-old Tamir Rice - LA Times[/URL]

The caller who reported the child with the "gun" said to the dispatcher "the gun was probably a fake"

So on the video just watch the last 30 seconds to see how the police investigated to see if the gun was a fake.

I dont know about you, i had a bb gun when i was 12 which looked just like a .22 rifle. I dont see the difference. Its a known fact bb guns mimic real guns.

Maybe you would be in favor of gun legislation that read bb guns should not mimic real guns. Maybe make them all in the color of pink? I think i would be down with that. Might change the perception of having a gun is cool if they are all pink?


I dont want to impede a policeman job, but I want to (like the Skins) change the culture within some departments which may allow certain things. I think a good start would be requirement for the Cops to wear cameras to protect them and for training.

But your bottomline is correct, anytime someone loses their life, whether its a policeman in the line of fire, criminal, or the innocent...its tragic.[/quote]

As far as the 12/13 yr old .... as I said ... vary sad , tragic and should not have happened . I did not watch the entire video , I don't want to see that. I agree that some dept's need a culture change , better police chief's , supervisors and personnel in IA . I do believe that Parenting ,maybe our schools need to do a better job of teaching kids discipline and respecting of authority ( not ass kissing ) ,would go along way in minimizing incident's with law enforcement . Have a good weekend .

Re: No indictment in the mike brown case
 

[quote=donofriose;1097707]So if we don't do exactly what authority figures say... we deserve to die.

I agree he should have listened. But not listening does not mean he deserved to be killed.[/quote]

wow , you might want to re-read what I wrote .