Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1098376]Jim Harbaugh isn't coming to Washington, y in the hell would anyone come to this shit hole. Honestly I think gruden is done and we Keep rg3 because Dan is too stubborn. And what gm do u guys want?[/quote]

I would love to have Ozzie Newsome or Ron Wolf.....or throw money at Bobby Beathard.....

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

......just a question ,what was Joe Gibbs record his first year as a head coach ?



8-8 after going 0-5 to start

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Giantone;1098469]......just a question ,what was Joe Gibbs record his first year as a head coach ?



8-8 after going 0-5 to start[/quote]

Good point but the difference between Jay and Joe is that Joe's team got better as the year went on. I have literally seen no improvement from week one to now, maybe even a decline.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=mredskins;1098470]Good point but the difference between Jay and Joe is that Joe's team got better as the year went on. I have literally seen no improvement from week one to now, maybe even a decline.[/quote]



I agree ,Joe did have a different team and different people evaluating talent for and with him I think that is the big problem.A coach any coach needs to have time to get his team together ,I don't think Gruden has had that chance yet .I watch that whole game yesterday and there were many players who looked like crap on different plays .Colt was getting killed and when RGIII came in he was getting hit also ,Gruden is coaching with what he has .

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Continuing the revolving door at HC is just plain stupid but stupid seems to be the trademark of this organization. If anything needs gutted its the players. The only player the Skins should even consider a must keep is Kerrigan the rest of these guys are no account bums.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Apparently gruden said he believes he can build a team around colt Mccoy... ok he's just asking to get fired now.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=mredskins;1098470]Good point but the difference between Jay and Joe is that Joe's team got better as the year went on. I have literally seen no improvement from week one to now, maybe even a decline.[/quote]

Yep. Gibbs cleaned up the stupid plays and unforced errors that he could not abide. Gruden hasn't cleaned this stuff up at all. Personally it's my biggest concern about Jay.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1098476]Yep. Gibbs cleaned up the stupid plays and unforced errors that he could not abide. Gruden hasn't cleaned this stuff up at all. Personally it's my biggest concern about Jay.[/quote]

The players just aren't listening. They are like children who become "mommy deaf". I believe that the coaches are trying hard to teach the players what to do but hey aren't being heard.

You can't replace all of the players at once, but you can replace some of the coaches. If Gruden were to stay and hire some new coaching "voices", maybe some of the young players who aren't getting it right now could be turned around. Turning around and keeping some of these young players would help to make the rebuilding hill less steep.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098363]I'd be all for it. Let's have a true house cleaning. Hire a real GM, kick Allen back to team President, and let the new GM call all the shots as far as hiring a new HC and putting together a new staff.[/quote]

This is my hope

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098363]I'd be all for it. Let's have a true house cleaning. Hire a real GM, kick Allen back to team President, and let the new GM call all the shots as far as hiring a new HC and putting together a new staff.[/quote]

I'd be down for this too. We have a lot of core young players on our roster that a competent GM and HC could built upon.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Shouldn't the coach have the final say on who plays and who sits? At this point, what's Snyder's obsession with Griffin? Is it his ego and a failure to admit that the trade was a disaster? Or does Snyder still have a ridiculous man crush on him? What has Griffin shown that he deserves to be on the field? This is all about politics and Gruden doesn't want to play Snyder's game.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Bishop Hammer;1098374]Knowing The Skins luck Shanahan will have learned from his mistakes here and become a grwat coach again with The 49ers lol.[/quote]

Well that brings up the question of was Shanahan let go too hastily? I think he wore out his welcome here, but he also said his rebuild was going to take awhile.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1098488]Well that brings up the question of was Shanahan let go too hastily? I think he wore out his welcome here, but he also said his rebuild was going to take awhile.[/quote]

He absolutely was let go too quickly. The organization has been being broken for close to 20 years and no coach is going to fix it in under 5 years. Shanny inherited a mess and needed at least 5 years to just get the ship turned in the right direction. Once the ship is turned then consistent winning can begin. Shanny needed more time.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I don't think it takes 5+ years. Look at what Carroll did in Seattle in less than 5 years. Bellichick in NE in less than 5 . Harbaugh in SF in less than 5 . Those teams weren't loaded with talent before their arrival either. I think Shannahan had enough time to show improvement but the team was at its worst his final season in DC. I doubt he comes back and wins elsewhere - I think he's done.


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Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=calia;1098495]I don't think it takes 5+ years. Look at what Carroll did in Seattle in less than 5 years. Bellichick in NE in less than 5 . Harbaugh in SF in less than 5 . Those teams weren't loaded with talent before their arrival either. I think Shannahan had enough time to show improvement but the team was at its worst his final season in DC. I doubt he comes back and wins elsewhere - I think he's done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

You are only looking at talent and think changing players will make a difference. It wont. This organization is a complete and total disaster from top to bottom and no matter who is brought in wont matter because there are no players and coaches who can be successful in this dysfunctional loser environment. It will take at least 5 years to change the culture of loser dysfunction in this organization.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I was at the game yesterday - got cheap tickets and took my son for his birthday (what a lousy present in hindsight). Seeing the game in person really altered my thinking. This team is almost unsalvageable. I had a feeling that we were going to lose during the national anthem. The Rams all stood in a line sort-of at attention, like a baseball team on the baseline. The Skins were all over the place, talking, sitting, looking at stuff. It came across as undisciplined, unfocused and unprofessional.

Not to make too much of a small detail, but I think it reflects the problems we're having on the field - our play is unfocused and undisciplined. We look surprised and caught off-guard on almost every play.

So, I've switched from the "it-would-be-premature-to-fire-Gruden" camp to the "gut-it-all" camp. At this point I'd fire the whole coaching staff - no holdovers - and bring in a coach who can instill discipline and emphasize hard work and professionalism. We also need to clean house on the player side; I don't even know how many of our players are salvageable at this point.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

The only way I would be in favor of getting rid of Gruden is if it meant a total overhaul of the entire FO and scouting department.

As far as Griffin goes, if he isn't willing to take a backseat and learn then I'd move on from him. Like Gruden has said, he's been coddled for far too long and he has this sense of entitlement that the position is his by default. I recall another asshole (Jason Campbell) that said basically the same thing. I don't see it happening until it's too late though because his ego needs to come down a few notches.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

So I just heard on the radio that Gruden actually had to sit down with Napoleon and show him the film on Griffin. This organization is such a shit show.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=irish;1098496]You are only looking at talent and think changing players will make a difference. It wont. This organization is a complete and total disaster from top to bottom and no matter who is brought in wont matter because there are no players and coaches who can be successful in this dysfunctional loser environment. It will take at least 5 years to change the culture of loser dysfunction in this organization.[/QUOTE]


What is the culture beyond coaches and players? The owner? If so, he will probably own the team for the rest of my life and so I should move on now. The GM? I think Allen doesn't have it and I assume we will move on from him too. The fans? I don't see Redskins fans as any different from other NFL teams nor is the local media worse than NY.


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Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=calia;1098504]What is the culture beyond coaches and players? The owner? If so, he will probably own the team for the rest of my life and so I should move on now. The GM? I think Allen doesn't have it and I assume we will move on from him too. The fans? I don't see Redskins fans as any different from other NFL teams nor is the local media worse than NY.


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The fans are the only good thing the Skins have.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Agreed.


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Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098503]So I just heard on the radio that Gruden actually had to sit down with Napoleon and show him the film on Griffin. This organization is such a shit show.[/quote]

That meeting is not an illustration of why this team sucks.

Dan Snyder owns the team. He has a big investment in RGIII. In large part, he hired Gruden to develop RGIII. If Gruden wanted to replace RGIII as the starter why wouldn't he sit down with his boss and show him that Robert needed to developed off the field because he has further to go than Gruden at first realized?

I think it would have been disrespectful for Gruden not to meet with Snyder about something that Gruden knew was very important to the owner of the team.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1098511]That meeting is not an illustration of why this team sucks.

Dan Snyder owns the team. He has a big investment in RGIII. In large part, he hired Gruden to develop RGIII. If Gruden wanted to replace RGIII as the starter why wouldn't he sit down with his boss and show him that Robert needed to developed off the field because he has further to go than Gruden at first realized?

I think it would have been disrespectful for Gruden not to meet with Snyder about something that Gruden knew was very important to the owner of the team.[/quote]

Yeah I don't see a problem with this either. Especially since Snyder is not a football person (I know, I'm stating what is clearly obvious). I think this is more productive than Gruden blasting RG3 during his press conferences.

Now if we can have a follow up with Gruden showing film of how much our offensive line works, perhaps the team can focus on where did they go wrong in their draft picks/free agency acquisitions in that area and rectify it.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098507]The fans are the only good thing the Skins have.[/quote]

It's hard to tell if that's even true with so many of them chanting R-G-3 in the stands yesterday and making a fool out of themselves [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbYs7QagnDc"]defending the team name[/URL].

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1098511]That meeting is not an illustration of why this team sucks.

Dan Snyder owns the team. He has a big investment in RGIII. In large part, he hired Gruden to develop RGIII. If Gruden wanted to replace RGIII as the starter why wouldn't he sit down with his boss and show him that Robert needed to developed off the field because he has further to go than Gruden at first realized?

I think it would have been disrespectful for Gruden not to meet with Snyder about something that Gruden knew was very important to the owner of the team.[/quote]

I'm trying to put myself in that position and if my head coach comes to me and says he's benching the starting QB, and gives me legit reasons, I'm backing my coach. I'm not going to sit in the film room with the coach and go over missed wr's, incorrect drops, throwing late, taking sacks and on and on and on. Especially since Snyder isn't qualified to even be in a film room.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

A stinging reminder:

[url=http://dcist.com/2012/09/dan_snyder_partied_like_a_boss_afte.php]Dan Snyder Partied Like a Boss After Securing RGIII Draft Pick: DCist[/url]

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1098529]A stinging reminder:

[url=http://dcist.com/2012/09/dan_snyder_partied_like_a_boss_afte.php]Dan Snyder Partied Like a Boss After Securing RGIII Draft Pick: DCist[/url][/quote]

I think we all did, especially after the 2012 season. :(

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098522]I'm trying to put myself in that position and if my head coach comes to me and says he's benching the starting QB, and gives me legit reasons, I'm backing my coach. I'm not going to sit in the film room with the coach and go over missed wr's, incorrect drops, throwing late, taking sacks and on and on and on. Especially since Snyder isn't qualified to even be in a film room.[/quote]

The problem is Snyder thinks he's qualified. He thinks he a football guy and a talent evaluator.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098535]The problem is Snyder thinks he's qualified. He thinks he a football guy and a talent evaluator.[/quote]

If he thought he was, he'd be Jerry Jones.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1098554]If he thought he was, he'd be Jerry Jones.[/quote]

Not even close. For one thing Jones' team is winning, Snyder's isnt. Plus, if Dan Snyder was Jerry Jones he'd have drafted Johnny Manzel.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098561]Not even close. For one thing Jones' team is winning, Snyder's isnt. Plus, if Dan Snyder was Jerry Jones he'd have drafted Johnny Manzel.[/quote]

What I meant is that if Snyder thought he was a football man, he'd make himself the GM of the team the way Jones is.

Also, it is well known that Jerry Jones wanted to draft Manziel and his people stopped him from doing it. The difference between Jerry Jones and Snyder, in terms of how the team is operated, it seems that Jones has good people working under him.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1098565]What I meant is that if Snyder thought he was a football man, he'd make himself the GM of the team the way Jones is.

Also, it is well known that Jerry Jones wanted to draft Manziel and his people stopped him from doing it. The difference between Jerry Jones and Snyder, in terms of how the team is operated, it seems that Jones has good people working under him.[/quote]

Obviously Jones isnt afraid to have people surrounding him that will say no. And he listens and take their advice. Maybe that's why his team is winning.

Snyder is surrounded by yes men so in the end Snyder would have told his people to STFU and just draft Manzel.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1098475]Apparently gruden said he believes he can build a team around colt Mccoy... ok he's just asking to get fired now.[/quote]Just as Shanny tried to sell us on Rex and Beck in 2011. This is a franchise utterly without hope.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

We need to hire a REAL General Manager that has 100% power to make all player and personnel decisions. Let him decide who stays and who goes independently of any input from other people. Snyder needs to let go and put his faith in a football professional. If the GM wants to fire Gruden and keep rg3 fine, vice versa, fine too, get rid of both, also fine. Until we have a real General Manager that knows how to build a team (strong o-line) we will continue to stink and be the butt of jokes.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=mmil12;1098354]What are the odds we get rid of both Gruden and RG3 as well as hire a GM like Bill Polan to remake the talent on this roster. It is just so clear that we need a strong football guy to come in and gut this team and rebuild from nothing.[/quote]

Posted the exact same thing as you. Agree 100%!

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Heard Michigan reached out to Jay Gruden for a job.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

The one thing I'll say, Dan was smart enough to go get Joe Gibbs and let him restore order. He gave him complete control and Gibbs made the playoffs twice without a real QB. If Dan finds someone he think is capable, he will step aside and do it.

Problem is Dan just might not be willing to eat the $20M left on Gruden's salary.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098567]Obviously Jones isnt afraid to have people surrounding him that will say no. And he listens and take their advice. Maybe that's why his team is winning.

Snyder is surrounded by yes men so in the end Snyder would have told his people to STFU and just draft Manzel.[/quote]

So was Shanahan a yes man? Is Bruce Allen?

I know it is stupid for me to think that Snyder hasn't had a say on team decisions, but I think these two guys have been running things since Zorn was canned. If anything, Snyder is guilty of making bad hires.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1098575]So was Shanahan a yes man? Is Bruce Allen?

I know it is stupid for me to think that Snyder hasn't had a say on team decisions, but I think these two guys have been running things since Zorn was canned. If anything, Snyder is guilty of making bad hires.[/quote]

Bruce Allen is the king of the yes men.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1098573]The one thing I'll say, Dan was smart enough to go get Joe Gibbs and let him restore order. He gave him complete control and Gibbs made the playoffs twice without a real QB. If Dan finds someone he think is capable, he will step aside and do it.

Problem is Dan just might not be willing to eat the $20M left on Gruden's salary.[/quote]

The real problem is why give an unproven coach a 5 year 25 mill contract? It's not like Gruden was the toast of the NFL and everyone wanted to hire.